Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Anyone find direct game less effective?

mrgoodstuff

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He has to be over 6’1. No way he can seduce women as fast as says if he is not over 6’1.

He can’t disclose height because then his posts won’t have much meaning. Can’t go in and dominate at yoga class if all the girls are 5’11 and you are 5’8 now, can you?
You can if they have excessively large camel toes.
 

Espi

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A personal thought:
Mr. Level Headed, that's me. Seriously, one of my most defining characteristics is that I stay on a very even keel.
This is what I appreciate about you.

As good as I think I am, I'm always interested in knowing how I can improve.

You posted awhile back that you derive more strength through forgiveness than vengeance. I scoffed when I initially read that, but I scoffed because I envy you for it and have no doubt that I will perhaps be a better man (and a longer-living man) forgiving more and avenging less. Not an easy pill for me to swallow but improving means I have to challenge myself, which of course is a good thing.

So I do appreciate what you bring to the table.

I thought most of us here agreed women are not ultimately that important, that they should not be the center of your life, but rather they should be on the periphery. If that is the case, why would anyone define success by whether or not you are spinning five plates, or living a player lifestyle? Women aren't that important, remember? They should not define you.
You can officially put me in the "women-ARE-important" category. I prefer 3 at a time maximum, though. Like you, I am old LOL.

The bigger the lie, the more apt one believes, especially if he WANTS to believe.

The notion that women are unimportant totally baffles me.
 
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Espi

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He has to be over 6’1. No way he can seduce women as fast as says if he is not over 6’1.

He can’t disclose height because then his posts won’t have much meaning. Can’t go in and dominate at yoga class if all the girls are 5’11 and you are 5’8 now can you?
I'm 6'2" and I'm telling you right now there's a 1% chance that I would ever even waste my time attending a yoga class. Unless there were like 30 big boobed skinny chicks. All wearing tight ass skimpy outfits.

I rarely ever approach women at gyms, but if she is really hot I will find a way to connect. Eye contact and a smile are all that I need. 5 minutes max is all I will give before advising them that I'll let them get back to their day but let's text or chat later.

There is no need to spend extended periods of time with women in gyms. It fact, it is highly unproductive. Few women will sweat in gyms.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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Yoga is simply another tool in a fitness or martial art toolkit. Yoga improves balance, control and flexibility. It also aids mental clarity and breathing. For every 10 women in yoga theres 1-3 men. Communication will occur before or after the session. Try it youll feel better especially if you roll hard core in the gym.
 

Espi

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Yoga is simply another tool in a fitness or martial art toolkit. Yoga improves balance, control and flexibility. It also aids mental clarity and breathing. For every 10 women in yoga theres 1-3 men. Communication will occur before or after the session. Try it youll feel better especially if you roll hard core in the gym.
I will attest.

I was doing corporate-lunch yoga on the regular for a few months back in 2011 and I felt a near-perfect, albeit fleeting, sense of peace, calm, and energy after every yoga session.

But the macho-sexist-"Alpha" tells me that yoga is too feminine. I'd rather spend my time doing something miserable and "manly" like squats LOL
 
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Trump

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Mr. Level Headed, that's me. Seriously, one of my most defining characteristics is that I stay on a very even keel.
Considering you have been with your girlfriend for 15 years and live with her, wondering what is the worst thing a woman has done to you or family member?

You talk about being successful, but I thought most of us here agreed women are not ultimately that important, that they should not be the center of your life, but rather they should be on the periphery. If that is the case, why would anyone define success by whether or not you are spinning five plates, or living a player lifestyle? Women aren't that important, remember? They should not define you.
Everyone agrees women aren’t that important, yet a lot of the top players on here are married or in LTR or have kids. That is tough to take.

I should have made women the focus my life in my 20s, I would have made married with a kid now. Instead I focused on being “great” and making money. Now I have tons of money, more than I’ll ever need, and can’t get 37 year old divorced women to call me back.

Kind of regret finding this site.
 

guru1000

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Considering you have been with your girlfriend for 15 years and live with her, wondering what is the worst thing a woman has done to you or family member?



Everyone agrees women aren’t that important, yet a lot of the top players on here are married or in LTR or have kids. That is tough to take.

I should have made women the focus my life in my 20s, I would have made married with a kid now. Instead I focused on being “great” and making money. Now I have tons of money, more than I’ll ever need, and can’t get 37 year old divorced women to call me back.

Kind of regret finding this site.
Trump, I know exactly what you are saying. I know many successful doctors and attorneys in their 40s and 50s who own large practices, some of whom are networked heavy, but still cannot find or bang young hot women.

BUT like them, if you have the money as you claim, why haven’t you:

1) Hired a personal trainer and dietician;
2) Visited a dermatologist and HRT doc and got on an anti-aging regimen and Retin-a script;
3) Hired a style consultant or went to Zegna store to get a sick wardrobe of style;
4) Gone to the most exclusive lounges, getting a VIP table and popping bottles all weekend?

If you are not trolling, why have you done none of this if you have the resources to?

I attribute it to laziness or unwillingness. Hence your dilemma. Don’t blame SoSuave my friend. Blame yourself.
 

mrgoodstuff

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I will attest.

I was doing corporate-lunch yoga on the regular for a few months back in 2011 and I felt a near-perfect, albeit fleeting, sense of peace, calm, and energy after every yoga session.

But the macho-sexist-"Alpha" tells me that yoga is too feminine. I'd rather spend my time doing something miserable and "manly" like squats LOL
I consider yoga a "tune up".
 

Espi

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if you have the money as you claim, why haven’t you
Exactly.

No excuses. Set the goal and pursue tenaciously.

Regret is totally useless.
 

zekko

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Yoga is simply another tool in a fitness or martial art toolkit. Yoga improves balance, control and flexibility. It also aids mental clarity and breathing. For every 10 women in yoga theres 1-3 men.
It's too bad that yoga became such a female thing in the West. In India, where it is more of a spiritual practice, it's considered more of a masculine pursuit. But they consider even the physical to be from a divine source, so keeping a strong body is considered a spiritual act also. Of course, they also do yoga to pay off karmic debt, but that's another story - that wouldn't mesh too well with Western beliefs.

But as I was saying, it's too bad it became so associated with women over here because there are a lot of benefits. Unfortunately it's so predominately female that a lot of the guys who show up for yoga end up looking like they're try hard or desperate.

Considering you have been with your girlfriend for 15 years and live with her, wondering what is the worst thing a woman has done to you or family member?
Oh, I've suffered as many or more wounds from women as anyone else here, especially when I was younger. I haven't been cheated on much (that I know of), but I've suffered indignities and broken hearts, believe me. Most of these I blame myself for, but I didn't have the experience when I was younger to do otherwise. Just a few examples:
One girl I had no interest in, but she wouldn't leave me alone until I was hooked on her, then she stonewalled me (attention wh0re).
Several girls have vandalized my car.
Some have searched my things behind my back because they were suspicious I was up to something. And me being so innocent too! :)
Several have made up lies about me to make me look bad after a breakup.
I could go on but I don't care to dredge it all up. I was a stupid kid/young adult.

I should have made women the focus my life in my 20s, I would have made married with a kid now. Instead I focused on being “great” and making money. Now I have tons of money, more than I’ll ever need, and can’t get 37 year old divorced women to call me back.
I've done well financially, I've been able to retire early. I would take the money every time. Money is more versatile than a woman, and can be used to benefit yourself more than a woman. You can use it to buy freedom, go to interesting places, learn to fly, take on expensive hobbies (most hobbies are expensive, let's face it), educate yourself, buy a car, live whatever lifestyle you like, live off the grid, pay for a home gym, do the stuff Guru talked about, anything. I'd take the money every time.
 

mrgoodstuff

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I participate in yoga because i think it helps me be relaxed, it gives you motor control, flexibility and i get great mental clarity. I cant help but to think it assists atheletic performance. The women to men ratio is a side benefit.
 

Trump

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Trump, I know exactly what you are saying. I know many successful doctors and attorneys in their 40s and 50s who own large practices, some of whom are networked heavy, but still cannot find or bang young hot women.
Good to know they are in the same boat.

BUT like them, if you have the money as you claim, why haven’t you:

1) Hired a personal trainer and dietician;
I have one now.

2) Visited a dermatologist and HRT doc and got on an anti-aging regimen and Retin-a script;
I have.

3) Hired a style consultant or went to Zegna store to get a sick wardrobe of style;
Wont do.

I got Maxim models in my 20 buying clothes from Walmart. I went out with hot chicks wearing jeans that were 3 for $10.

Everyone says dress matters, I don’t think it does. You can’t dress sloppily or dirty, but imho an expensive suit or expensive clothes isn’t going to change anything.

4) Gone to the most exclusive lounges, getting a VIP table and popping bottles all weekend?
That isn’t my style and I’m not part of that crowd. All the girls there want $$$. I am dreaming, but I want a girl who wants nothing, just me.

I attribute it to laziness or unwillingness. Hence your dilemma.
True. I think my dilemma is more limited social group. In my 20s I was rocking, 2 dates in one night with models, girls coming in and out my apartment every weekend, girls sleeping over, girls phoning me non stop.

Now it’s ridiculous. Even if a girl has any type of look to her, their attitude is the worst.

Don’t blame SoSuave my friend. Blame yourself.
Sosuave brainwashes you, or it did me, with the “f these girls, women are worthless, focus of your goals, your life, your passion, marriage is for suckers, don’t be a beta fool and get married, don’t be a sucker, women ain’t nothing, etc, etc, etc.

I see everyone around me got married and have kids, and I’m still telling myself I’m the man because I have “money” and “freedom”?

Part of it is my fault and sometimes I’m dying inside. But I guess the only solution is keep improving right?
 

guru1000

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Wont do.

I got Maxim models in my 20 buying clothes from Walmart. I went out with hot chicks wearing jeans that were 3 for $10.

Everyone says dress matters, I don’t think it does. You can’t dress sloppily or dirty, but imho an expensive suit or expensive clothes isn’t going to change anything.
You’re not 20 years old anymore. A playboy in his 40s is refined, sophisticated and debonaire. You’re still holding on to memories of when you were in your 20s “delivering pizza and banging your customers.” It’s a different age group, different dynamic, and requires a different approach.

My last gf was 23 yo and dated a pro ballplayer for a year, a household name who was previously married to an A-list celebrity we all know. Some members here know this story about me. You want to compete with pro ballplayers as a no name, low-status man wearing Levi’s in his 40s? Lol come on bro

That isn’t my style and I’m not part of that crowd. All the girls there want $$$. I am dreaming, but I want a girl who wants nothing, just me.
Those girls don’t want money; they want fun. I love hanging with and slaying those model types but they are just fun, not LT investments.

I’m not sure what you are looking for, is it hot model types in their early to mid twenties to have fun with—or—are you looking to get married to a hot 20 something yo who doesn’t party?

I can direct you to either if you are straight with your intent.
True. I think my dilemma is more limited social group. In my 20s I was rocking, 2 dates in one night with models, girls coming in and out my apartment every weekend, girls sleeping over, girls phoning me non stop.
You’re not in your 20s anymore. New game. Time to grow up.

Sosuave brainwashes you, or it did me, with the “f these girls, women are worthless, focus of your goals, your life, your passion, marriage is for suckers, don’t be a beta fool and get married, don’t be a sucker, women ain’t nothing, etc, etc, etc.

I see everyone around me got married and have kids, and I’m still telling myself I’m the man because I have “money” and “freedom”?

Part of it is my fault and sometimes I’m dying inside. But I guess the only solution is keep improving right?
Sosuave didn’t brainwash me. Matter of fact I got married three year after I joined. And then divorced lol

Sosuave doesn’t run your life man. You’re a grown man and make your own decisions. If you were savvy enough to make millions, then finding, banging, or marrying young women is easy in comparison. But you have to put in the physical, style, and venue work and stop saying you won’t do this or that because it feels uncomfortable or foreign as you hold on to antiquated memories of how it used to be. What you are doing is obviously not working so it’s time to surrender fruitless thinking. Start by having your money work for you and employ the suggestions I outlined in the previous post.

I’m older than you and live in NYC and have been going through 20-40 new model types in their early to mid twenties a year for the last few years.

I’m not the one telling you to do nothing to attact them either. I am telling you exactly what I do to attract them. If you follow my suggestions, there is absolutely no way you won’t be meeting dozens of new young hot chicks every year.

It’s simple actually. Spend your money to look your best across the board and be in places where all the hot women are while “flexing” your status. You’re like the genius who attained an IQ of 190 but can’t put a lego together.
 

TyTe`EyEz

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You’re not 20 years old anymore. A playboy in his 40s is refined, sophisticated and debonaire. You’re still holding on to memories of when you were in your 20s “delivering pizza and banging your customers.” It’s a different age group, different dynamic, and requires a different approach.

My last gf was 23 yo and dated a pro ballplayer for a year, a household name who was previously married to an A-list celebrity we all know. Some members here know this story about me. You want to compete with pro ballplayers as a no name, low-status man wearing Levi’s in his 40s? Lol come on bro


Those girls don’t want money; they want fun. I love hanging with and slaying those model types but they are just fun, not LT investments.

I’m not sure what you are looking for, is it hot model types in their early to mid twenties to have fun with—or—are you looking to get married to a hot 20 something yo who doesn’t party?

I can direct you to either if you are straight with your intent.
You’re not in your 20s anymore. New game. Time to grow up.


Sosuave didn’t brainwash me. Matter of fact I got married three year after I joined. And then divorced lol

Sosuave doesn’t run your life man. You’re a grown man and make your own decisions. If you were savvy enough to make millions, then finding, banging, or marrying young women is easy in comparison. But you have to put in the physical, style, and venue work and stop saying you won’t do this or that because it feels uncomfortable or foreign as you hold on to antiquated memories of how it used to be. What you are doing is obviously not working so it’s time to surrender fruitless thinking. Start by having your money work for you and employ the suggestions I outlined in the previous post.

I’m older than you and live in NYC and have been going through 20-40 new model types in their early to mid twenties a year for the last few years.

I’m not the one telling you to do nothing to attact them either. I am telling you exactly what I do to attract them. If you follow my suggestions, there is absolutely no way you won’t be meeting dozens of new young hot chicks every year.

It’s simple actually. Spend your money to look your best across the board and be in places where all the hot women are while “flexing” your status. You’re like the genius who attained an IQ of 190 but can’t put a lego together.
Guru is a fvcking beast.
 

Espi

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Everyone says dress matters, I don’t think it does. You can’t dress sloppily or dirty, but imho an expensive suit or expensive clothes isn’t going to change anything.
In my opinion, dress DOES matter but expensive attire does NOT matter. The key is how you fit in your attire. Obviously working out/eating clean will help a lot, but you do not want your clothes looking too loose or too tight.

Also, in my opinion, women notice shoes and will either loathe them or regard them highly .I am not kidding about this.

I am convinced that they will judge a man's character based on his shoes. Again: no need to spend lavishly, but shoes need to look good and they need to be clean and 100% free of scratches, scuffs, etc. so if you ARE going to dress cheaply, do NOT dress in shoddy-looking shoes.

Also, I highly recommend shoe trees and shoe horns for ALL of your shoes, including tennis shoes/gym shoes.
 

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Espi

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Sosuave brainwashes you, or it did me, with the “f these girls, women are worthless, focus of your goals, your life, your passion, marriage is for suckers, don’t be a beta fool and get married, don’t be a sucker, women ain’t nothing, etc, etc, etc.
Trump I would erase "brainwashes" from your vocabulary. To use such a word diminishes your personal power. You are depending on/blaming outside circumstances for your success or failure.

SS is not ultimately responsible for your success or failure with women. Nor is anything or anyone else, for that matter. Only you are able to brainwash yourself.

For the record: I have never bought into this idea about women not being the focus of my life. I work hard but I have few passions in this life, and you better believe that women are one of those things that I'm very passionate about, and I focus a lot of my time and attention on them.

If women were not that important, guys wouldn't be wanting to marry them.
 
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Prettyboy Dee

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No man should sit and wait for women to come to them, that's what guys with no balls do.

If I sit back and dont do anything then nothing will happen, and guess what? I'm good looking, so what does that tell you? Girls present themselves to me, or find ways to get my attention or start a random conversation with me ect but if I dont see the signs that shes sending out and make a move then nothing happens.

I have girls making eye contact with a smile on there faces but guess what? If I dont stop and talk to her and lead the interaction forward then nothing happens. See my point, girls definitely will make themselves known to high value men but if those men have no balls then nothing happens.

I run both direct and indirect game, depends on my mood. And how much of a fvck I give at any given time. If I see a girl sneaking glances at me or looking at me head on, smiling at me ect I instantly start hitting on her and screening for DTF, I dont give a fvck how I look to her, how my value looks, if I seem like I'm chasing ect I dont care, its irrelevant, guys would be surprised at how often they could get laid if they were more aggressive.

Women want guys with swagger, confidence, the guy who goes for what he wants and is sure of himself.

I'm not waiting for choosing signals, though I get them, I dont wait for approach invitations, I dont wait for her to validate me and I dont care about how she reacts to me, I see something i want and i start hitting on them.

Guys talk about being "high value" but the true high value guys know women will be intimidated by the most high value men, it's easy to appear high value with 7s and below, try it with the 8s and up, then you can see where you stand.

Women start the seduction by presenting themselves to you then you carry it from there.
Assume gender roles, your the man, you lead, you escalate, you move things forward, you make the moves ect.

I flirt, I compliment, I screen, shes down? I go for instant hangout(I hate the word date) I bang, on to the next. When your attractive it's easy, I'm doing her a favor by hitting on her and asking her out, if anything she has a little ego boost because a guy like me is asking her out, shes nervous, blushing tripping over her words and cant stop smiling, this is how women act around high value men.

The guys who play it too cool aren't getting laid as much as they portray, trust me.....
 

MrWood

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I thought this site was all about DIRECT game.

Isn’t this the site that promotes 1st date sex? Isn’t this the site that promotes LEADERSHIP, SUBMISSION, NO CONFUSION, STRONG MASCULINE MEN, GUYS WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT WITH WOMEN?
This is not "Direct Game", this is.. GAME
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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I know that the community is, and always will be massively divided over the direct vs indirect thing.

I personally wonder if the real reason for the disagreement is maybe because it is effected by things such as your location, your looks, how old the girl you're hitting on is, the culture etc etc

I know that RSD tend to advocate direct game in the day and indirect at night

Personally, i've found that direct game really doesn't seem to work at all for me as a UK guy who isn't blessed in the looks department, and who is hitting on hot girls in bars who are like 18-21, and are a bit younger than me

I just seem to get a reaction that the girls don't like this direct approach. Can't put my finger on it, but I wonder if it's in part due too a kind of lack of subtlety that girls like? Or that maybe they feel that reacting positively might lead you on too much or trigger their Anti slut defense? Or maybe they hear it all the time and it's boring? Or maybe it's just too forward for us Brits?

I honestly don't know. I experiment all the time and made tonnes of direct approaches last night and they all followed a similar pattern where I felt like the girls just didn't like the direct approach

The only exception seems to be if I get a strong IOI first. In them scenarios, i'd actually say direct game is superior.

I'm curious if anyone else finds direct game gets themm worse reactions in general, though.
As a lad from the UK I concur. I have but the success rate is less than spectacular unless choosing signals from her or IOIs. Even though i run tight game. Msn to woman but it's still subtle, indirect, taking number, flirty, charm her etc but there's nothing Overt or overly forward. It's layered in man to woman. She will know what's up yet still be guessing.

I have played with direct indirect. Direct indirect. Why fix what isn't broke?
 

stormrider

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In my opinion, dress DOES matter but expensive attire does NOT matter. The key is how you fit in your attire. Obviously working out/eating clean will help a lot, but you do not want your clothes looking too loose or too tight.

Also, in my opinion, women notice shoes and will either loathe them or regard them highly .I am not kidding about this.

I am convinced that they will judge a man's character based on his shoes. Again: no need to spend lavishly, but shoes need to look good and they need to be clean and 100% free of scratches, scuffs, etc. so if you ARE going to dress cheaply, do NOT dress in shoddy-looking shoes.

Also, I highly recommend shoe trees and shoe horns for ALL of your shoes, including tennis shoes/gym shoes.
I had a woman felt attraction for me first and then looked at my shoes after. The first thing she feels is your dominant presence. Everything after that is backwards rationalization. “He had nice shoes, that’s probably why I’m attracted to him.” Then they go out and tell everyone it’s all about shoes. Then guys go out and buy a bunch of shoes just to realize it makes no difference.

The guy who is supplicating enough to buy an entire wardrobe of shoes just to impress women doesn’t have a dominant bone in his body. The guy who buys shoes because he wants to look and feel good for himself is the dominant one.

Everything you’ve ever learned from the seduction community and manosphere is all backwards rationalization from women and has no effect on attraction whatsoever and that’s why you are all confused and so suave is still in business.

First a woman senses a dominant presence. She feels an attraction pull. This makes her feel uncomfortable. She needs to do something so that she can truly see his character (whether or not it’s truly dominant), categorize him, and move on with her day. This is all done unconsciously.

Some women throw out an ioi, and some throw a sh1t test. Either way, his response is going to reveal his character in plain sight.

Some guys approach. Some guys don’t react. There is no “right or wrong” reaction. To think so means you are calibrating to women and therefore are not dominant in your thinking. A dominant man does whatever he wants. He can either engage her or ignore her. He’s not worried about how to look “manly” in front of her. That’s the mindset of 99% of guys on sosuave and that’s why 99% of guys on sosuave have no idea what they are talking about, yet pretend they do.

Now here is the ultimate secret - whatever the guy does next, SHE will backwards rationalize as attractive. If he approaches directly, she will think “oh he’s so masculine. He knows what he wants and goes after it.” And if the guy ignores her, she will backwards rationalize “oh he must get a lot of women! a guy like him isn’t going to through himself at every woman. Maybe I should flirt with his friend to get his attention.” So you see now, there is no CALIBRATION or right way to act! However way you react to her signs, she will backwards rationalize as attractive.

And the more dominant you are, the more likely you will create a permanent imprint in her head by your actions. In other words, if you’re the most dominant guy she ever met and you had nice shoes, she will forever rationalize an attractive man should always have nice shoes. She’s just following your lead, she’s not dictating what is attractive, as many supplicating male seducers believe. And if you approach after eye contact, she will believe an attractive guy approaches. And if you ignore her, she will believe an attractive guy has options and must be seduced.

In some countries, the most dominant guys are completely dismissive, which is why the women in that country rationalize direct game as low value.

Women have no frames of their own. They react to what men do. At least the most dominant men in that environment.

This is why seducers fail. They try to figure out a woman’s imprint and react accordingly, but there is no imprint. A woman’s frame is like quicksand. It only appears solid. To purposely live in her frame looks weak and will send her repulsive signals.

A woman can never trust a guy who tries to live in her illusory frame of smoke and mirrors.

The amateurs in this forum take women’s backwards rationalizations and turn it into gospel. They would even defend women’s backwards rationalizations to the death while women themselves sit back and relax and laugh at how supplicating and clueless they are.

The masculine god frame exists outside the matrix of romance. And this is the frame Feminine women submit to. I use the word feminine because not all women want to submit these days. Some are too bitter beyond repair.

If you are truly dominant, you dictate reality and women simply live in that reality.

If you go deep enough into the rabbit hole, you will see that male seducers are simply living in realities that dominant men created for them via women who submitted to them.

The history of the entire world is simply dominant frames creating reality and the rest of the people reacting and living in it.

The fact that women have no frames of their own is also why 99% of threads in this forum are completely pathetic. They attempt to figure out women when there is nothing to figure out.

A woman either submits to your dominance or there is no romance. Theres nothing to figure out. That’s the end of the story.

A question that hardly anyone ever asks is “How does a man reach his highest potential of dominance so that more women effortlessly submit?”

The answer lies internally. It always starts on the inside before it can manifest on the outside.
 
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