and_places: the boot camp story

[and_places]

OK. The time has come for me to make a genuine attempt at djboot camp. I have made two half hearted attempts in the past, so this time i have decided to make a record of it and maybe that will motivate me a little more. I ran across sosuave by digging around the internet trying to find some way to figure out if this chick was into me (yes she was and no i didnt make a move) and I've been lurking around and working on improving myself ever since.

now some stuff about me

the bad: I'm 23 I'm still a virgin. it does bother me. I've been on a total of about 5 dates on my life. I actually managed to get a second date with the last girl before going totally AFC on her. I'm overweight 6' 230 but i have been doing well over the past few months with exercise and controling what I eat. I tend to screw around on the computer more than i really should. and I get nervous around people I dont know. I've really only got one friend now. and i still live at home, almost for got that part.

the good: I've got a degree and a real job as a graphic designer which i enjoy most of the time, I used to hate it but my outlook on things has brightened up alot. I've a good sense of humor and seem to be able to get just about anyone to crack up. I'm decent looking inspite of the gut. I have a plan in life. I have interests , could use a few more though. Art and music though i dont play anything at this point. And on a whole I just try to keep it positive and i dont stress out much anymore.

Any how my goal for this adventure is to update almost daily and just be unafraid go out and talk to people i dont know, girls or guys. I'm nervous but excited. Any comments, advice or words of encouragement are greatly appreciated.

 

[Oldboy]

I'm in! Bootcamp begins now!

Hey and_places

OK, found out about the Boot Camp concept last night, read up on it, and am in.

Here's my situation: I'm 36. I've had a fair amount of success with women, mostly due to a tireless pursuit of the personal ads (starting in the 90s with the phone personals, then moving onto the internet). But what I've NEVER been good at is approaching and talking to strangers, and it sticks in my craw like a chicken bone on a fishing line - and the line gets yanked every time every time I see an attractive woman who gives me tentative eye contact. I freeze up. I'll be more explicit: my brain shuts down and I MUST LOOKAWAY, LOOKAWAYNOW. What could I possibly say that would have value to such a wonder of nature? Her life must be SO much more exciting and satisfying than mine. FLEE! says the stupid F or F reflex. DANGER! Everyone will laugh at you! GET OUT! If I try to break the ice I'm going to fall into the freezing water underneath - and drown.

I know this is ridiculous. Once past the approach, I do pretty well in a nice-guy-but-horndog sort of way. I've had a number of pretty crazy sexual adventures. But this is all due to situations where I already knew the girl through friends or met them through the personals. Only once (went to a bar, talked to the girl on the barstool next to me, and drunkenly made out with her during the all-star game) have I actually been able to initiate contact with a strange woman and have it come to anything. ONCE.

This isn't about sex for me. Well, OK, a little. What I really like about this DJ board is that the best stuff is geared more towards being a better person, a more complete man who takes charge of and responsibility for his life and his world. Control your frame, but adapt. Seek means of self-improvement. Persist. And take a f***ing chance - if you're always looking for shadows to hide in, you're never going to reach your dreams.

and_places, I remember well that feeling of being a virgin, and having that dark cloud of inexperience hanging over your head. But this is a brave step towards getting through it, and you should be proud of yourself for taking it. You also seem like you have a great attitude towards improving yourself, and that's really what this is all about. Besides the readings and the DJ Bible, you might want to go over to YouTube and do a search on "Seduction School." There's a five part series there where American DJ's teach British guys how to approach. I found it inspirational.

So this is it - it's time to DO IT. I'm sick of my nervous system and years of self-reinforcement telling me what to do. I'm a perfectly good human being, a self-actualizing man. This inability to get past the approach fear really sucks, and it cannot be allowed to stand.

Therefore: I commit myself to the eight weeks of the DJ Boot Camp. I will start on week 1, by approaching 50 strangers and saying "Hello." Dogs and babies don't count. Neither do waitresses or cashiers.

I started today. Here's how it went...

After work, I go to my local mart and patrol the aisles.

Before entering, I make a promise to myself not to leave the store until I have said Hello to five strangers. Every journey begins with an empty shopping cart and a homeless guy outside pretending to collect money for charity.

1 - I grit my teeth and smile confidently at an asian lady with two kids. "Hi!" She looks up at me with concern and suspicion, and does not say hello back. She may be about to pull out a crucifix and thrust it in my face. If it touches me, it may burn.

One down!

2 - A bagboy. "Hi (please don't think I'm gay (not that there's anything wrong with that!)!)!" This is weird.

... I spend a minute stalking an attractive woman with her son. She's got Lactaid in her cart. I'm going to ask her if it tastes like the real thing. I wuss out and walk away.

... For the next couple of minutes I shop and kick myself. Suddenly 50 greetings seems like a big, big number. F*** it, I'm not leaving the store until I'm done with five hellos. It doesn't close for a few more hours...

3 - A woman buying frozen food. "Is this cereal any good?" I ask. Yes, she assures me, it's good. Do I make eye contact at any point during this encounter? Sure, for about .5 seconds.

4 - I go over to the cereal aisle, and compare nutritional information on the back of cereal boxes. A woman about my age walks past. I smile. "Hi!" "Hello, sir." Sir? Sir???

(and I'm now thinking, why didn't you C&F her on that? So much to learn - and to remember in the field)

5 - Another woman with grey hair walks past my post at the cereal counter. "Hi!" "Hello."

Yes! Cue the balloons and confetti! I go home with a marching band behind me.

Stats: about 30 minutes, 5 hellos.

So here's what I learned:
Lesson 1: This is going to be as hard as I thought. This was like pulling teeth. It should get easier.
Lesson 2: It's a lot more natural to make eye contact/greet when the woman is entering YOUR space, like at the cereal counter. This is not AMOG behavior, but it's something to keep in mind.
Lesson 3: The tapping/self-reinforcement technique in this video- http://www.bristollair.com/video/clear-your-approach-anxiety.html -seemed to have practical value for clearing out some of the worst of the anxiety.
Lesson 4: I'm sure there's a lesson 4 in there. Anyone?

Thanks for cheering on my baby steps.

Best,
Oldboy

 

[AlekNovi]

It does get much easier. Lesson 4 is persissting even when it seems pointless. By hi 40-45, it will feel almost natural

 

[Muzzlehatch]

Hi Oldboy,
Great report on your progress, keep it up. I've never done any kind of 'bootcamp' thing, but I have found there's a point where you have some success and you think 'Wow, it works! Why didn't I do this sooner?' Then I think things change fast.
Glad you mentioned Seduction School, I've been looking for somewhere to download it, I'll check YouTube. I saw it and thought it was great. Check out Charisma Arts for their podcasts; if you like Juggler and his method these are absolute gold. I have them on my iPod as inspiration for use in the field. There's one podcast, no 12, that is an extension of Seduction School, which has audio of Juggler and Johnny Saviour approaching. Absolute gold.

Keep it up mate.

 

[and_places]

Week 1 Day 2:

3/50 "hellos"

I actually did well with things today. I only had 3 hi's but I didnt expect to have any. Two were with perspective clients at work (whom i very rarley deal with) and I feel that I handled myself quite well. I briefly went out after work, which is not something I do often, and picked up some art goodies. I didn't get any hi's out of the trip(not counting the clerk, who I made a bit of small talk with) but it was really dead where I went and even just getting out of my routine is nice. As for tomorrow I have some errands to run wich will get me out there and for the evening i'm working on what i'll be doing at the moment.

Oldboy: Thanks for the encouragement and I'll be sure to check out that material you suggested when I get a chance. That one link you gave seems quite interesting.

Muzzlehatch: I'll check out that stuff you mentioned too.

AlekNovi: I'm glad to hear it get's easier. How are you doing with boot camp anyhow?

And anyone who hasn't done so should read this post http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=111514 it's quite long but VERY worth the read. OK off to bed for me, ive got things to do tomorrow.

 

[Oldboy]

Day 2 Report

First, greetings to:

AlekNovi: That's exactly what I needed to hear, man. Without persistence, all the creativity, talent & good intentions in the world aren't going to get one anywhere. I've always dreamed that one day this could feel natural, and after a few hardcore weeks, I think it will (start to!) be.

Muzzlehatch: I was reading your post about Seduction School and thought, "Juggler?" Then I did a little more looking around and found that bit on YouTube where he's at a Neil Strauss reading - and it clicked, "S***, that Wayne guy's Juggler!."

Awesome. I loved his chapter in The Game. Went to the Charisma Arts site and am listening to C12 as I write this.

Thanks for the ups.

and_places: Checked out the Cartogrophy of Hell post and: wow. It'll take a few readings to digest fully. Keep it up! Looking forward to your next report.

Ok, the report. Day 2: 10 more Hellos. Total: 15/50

Today was much easier, mostly because of venue. Walked to a shopping area near where I work, and did the greetings over lunch and after work. Cool breezes blowing, relaxed people. And me, hunting for Hellos. My two favorites: a girl in a wheelchair who gave me the biggest smile, and an old guy who lit up when I complimented him on his Mozart sweatshirt. "I like it too!" he sez excitedly. It's nice to give joy. Three datable women, one HB8, who didn't even look at me... well, that will come, and I understand the psychology behind the B-shield (and it's going to be such fun figuring out how to slide past it!). I also can't count the couple of times where my "Hi" wasn't audible, but got stuck somewhere in my throat and ended up as a "Hurrm."

So, what I learned today is:

Lesson 1: Smile a bit bigger when doing this. Now, I don't want to walk around with some freaky manic grin on my face, but I caught myself in a mirror while walking and discovered that what I think of as my casual & winning smile is a little vague, more like 'not-frowning.' What I want to communicate is something like "Hi! What fun I'm having! Aren't you lucky to get temporarily invited into my world!"
Lesson 2: A relaxed, social venue makes things easier. People who aren't on a mission (i.e. - the grocery store yesterday) are much more likely to be open to random interactions.
Lesson 3: Utilize all failures as learning tools. I need to make a list of the things that it occurred to me to say or do once I was a few steps past the girl and didn't greet her.
Lesson 4: I was thinking about what AlecNovi said about this foreign behavior eventually feeling natural, and the the old concept of, "Fake It til you Make It." In a less pithy way, this could be broken down as, "Visualize your highest & best self. Then act like that person. Persist in doing so, and one day you will find you are no longer acting."
Lesson 5: <? your comments here>

Best,
Oldboy

 

[and_places]

Week 1 Day 3:

15/50 "hello's"

This seems to be getting easier. I had hoped to be around 25 by the end of the day but progress is progress. I hit the crappy mall, a few random stores and the new 'hip' part of town (which was basicly devoid of life). I'd be up to 16 but I had one of those my voice not listening to my brain moments, but i said hi to the next person I walked past after that. Nothing particularly interesting aside from the shockingly low number of people that will maintain eye contact. I'm going to try to bang out the rest of the exercise tomorrow. I'd like to get an early start on week 2 since I'll be working next staturday.

Oldboy: I'm glad to see you're moving along with things too and I'm really digging your lessons of the day. Keep 'em comming.

 

[and_places]

Week 1 Day 4:

23/50 (takes more work than I expected)

Things went ok today. Very little progress was made the first time I went out but I wasn't satisfied and went out later (this daylight savings time stuff throwing anybody else WAY off today?)I learned something important on my second trip. Smile more. I mean really smile. Find something that really amuses you and think about it while you're out. People have much warmer responses to you when you're really happy about something. That got me 5 greetins in like 10 minutes 3 complete with brief exchanges. And that has got me feeling much more laid back about week 2. This saying hello to random people business seems like something to just write into your normal behavioral programming. Being an extrovert sounds like fun. Even after only a couple of days at it I really find myself wanting to get out as often as i can.

 

[izza]

Good start guys.

 

[Oldboy]

Day 3 & 4 - sickness

Total: 18/50

Well, Saturday I had some social obligations, and only managed to get in three hellos. However, two of them were from HB's, and included short conversations. That was fun.

Sunday I got a wretched case of food poisoning. I was in bed since about noon. It's now 5am Monday, and I've recovered, but lost a whole day there. Rats! I'm going to have to work hard to catch up, now.

and_places: "Being an extrovert sounds like fun." Totally. Nice work, man!

Well, back to bed.

 

[and_places]

Week 1 Day 5:

25/50

I took the day off, but I'm going out tomorrow nite so hopefully I'll be able to do some damage.

Edit: glad to hear you're doing feeling better Oldboy

 

[Oldboy]

Day 5 Report- still down with the sickness

Total: 21/50

Wasn't quite as recovered as I thought I was, and went in to work late. Managed three hellos walking to my car - more like 'lurching' to my car, felt like a zombie. No eye contact, but who would want to make eye contact with a zombie? They might suck your brains.

Tomorrow, however, I have a short day at work and fully intend to do some hardcore greetings at another local shopping area. It's Halloween, people should be in a social mood. My goal for tomorrow is a minimum of 20.

izza: Thanks for the support!

and_places: Thanks for the kind words. Let's make tomorrow a day we can both personally look back on years from now and say, "It was not the beginning of the end [of the AFC], but it was the end of the beginning..."

Best,
Oldboy

 

[Oldboy]

Day 6 report - Thank You Hollywood!

Day 6: 26 Hellos

Total: 47/50

Pretty happy with tonight's haul of Hellos, but I had a secret weapon - the West Hollywood Halloween Carnival. I had some friends heading that way, and it's my first Halloween in LA, so I thought it'd be good for an adventure.

After about two minutes there, I made up my mind that I'd only greet datable women. To say that finding HBs there to say Hello to was like shooting fish in a barrel would be an insult to both fish and barrels; more like having fish after fish flop towards you on its belly, and stare up at you with a pleading look in its eye as if to say, "Shoot me. Shoot me now."

(If anyone else was there, I *wasn't* the ten-foot-tall Jack Skellington, or the sequined-cobra drag queen, or one of the Tron guys - though gar bless all of 'em.)

All that said, I still found it difficult. Still the reticence, and the 'hellos' sticking in my throat. EC very difficult to get. And the stupid AFC fear - "What if she thinks I'm a creep?" WHO F***ING CARES??? Had to pause a few times to psych myself up. Which is why there's only 26 hellos to add to the list, instead of 126.

Still, feelin' pretty good.

Lesson 1: The old lesson - succeeding in doing something difficult results in self-pride, the good kind.
Lesson 2: Worked hard to keep a big ol' smile on my face, and a really positive attitude. And that, in turn, paid off in big benefits with both my interactions and my internal state. It's harder to feel like you're acting like a creep if you don't feel creepy.
Lesson 3: Maintain awareness and focus. Every time I let my eyes wander (a lot of distractions! Friends! Music! Costumes! Drunk homeless guys asking for cigarettes!) I found it took a few moments to get back to my intended purpose - and opportunities were lost. With the magic combination of work and time, this social awareness should become second nature; but I sure ain't there yet.
Lesson 4: [? your advice here]

Best,
Oldboy

 

[and_places]

Week 1 Day 6:

30+?/50

I went to see some crazy punk band's last night. Can't beat a Halloween show. Any how I said hi to a bunch of people, I kinda lost count. Talked to a couple of people. I'm finding I'm having less and less trouble making off hand comments to people and it used to make me freeze up. This is the first show in a long time that I've gone to and not felt totally disconnected from everybody there. Quite a nice feeling. I might roll out after work tonight, we'll see.

Nice work out there Oldboy.

 

[Oldboy]

Day 7 Report

Day 7: 3 Hellos

Total: 50/50

Week 1 complete! Now on to Week 2. Yee haw.

OK - just finished my readings for the Week 2 Convo-Fest. I'm ready to initiate real conversations with real people. Hmmm. I'm trying to scare myself with that last statement, but actually feel more excited than anything. Good!

Today - not so many lessons. Except I have the sneaking suspicion that the little DJ swagger I've been working on this last week helped me with my confidence & decisiveness in dealing (successfully, I hope) with a pretty serious crisis at work. More of an impression than a lesson - you can't prove a hypothesis based on one experiment alone.

Still, if that were true, it would be... nifty.

So here's the Big Lesson from Week 1: Forcing myself to say hello to strangers has been an invaluable exercise. It's made me self-conscious in a good way - conscious of how I relate to the world.

Before I would be sort of yanked from my daydreaming every time I saw a HB, and think to myself, "Gee, it would be nice to talk to her (and laugh together, and take a long romantic walk, and undo her belt with her purring in my ear...)," and let her go right by. Now I plot how to say hello, to actually DO SOMETHING. It's a start, and it's a good one.

Hey and_places! You crazy hipster, hanging out in punk clubs! That sounds like an awesome Halloween. I'm delighted that this is having the same effect on you that it's having on me - that sense of connection to things and people, of being part of the social melee (especially in unfamiliar surroundings) rather than isolated from it. "Quite a nice feeling," indeed. :yes:

BTW, don't know if you've had the chance to check out that free stuff that Muzzlehatch pointed out back on Day 1 (Ah! Remember Day 1?) on the Charisma Arts site - but it's all about initiating and building natural conversation. GREAT material for this week.

See you in Week 2!

Best,
Oldboy

 

[MAVER1CK]

Right on gents, Keep this up and you ****ers will get laid!!!!!!

WATCH OUT HB10s!!!!

 

[Oldboy]

Week 2, Days 1 and 2

Maverick: Thanks for the ups, man. And you're right - We Will Get Laid! Hope it's sooner rather than later...

Week 2 Goal: 10 Conversations

Day 1: 1 Conversation
Total: 1/10

...two minutes with the most scrumptious HB! More on that below.

Day 2: 1 Conversation
Total: 2/10

Nice five-minute conversation with a bagel shop worker on a smoke break. It was fun to get him to come out of his shell, actually.

Going to what promises to be a pretty rockin' b-day party tonight, so I should be able to pad my stats there.

---

More on the Day 1 HB Scrumptious conversation:

Saw her getting out of her car as I was walking home after work. Brief EC with my (now) usual big friendly smile, but couldn't think of a d**n thing to say to her. Then, getting my mail, in my building, who should stop in but HB Scrumptious herself!

"Hi!" I say. Get a warm Hi and smile back. She's looking down at that couple of boxes in the hall. Is she giving me an opening on purpose? It's now or never kids - and better lame than nothing.

Me: So, get anything good?
Her: No, nothing today.
Me: Hmmm. (looks at mail) Looks like I didn't get that million dollar check.
Her: (laughing) Oh, I got mine yesterday!
Me: Really! [Dang! Hot AND a quick wit! Say something!] So I guess you'll be moving out of the building then.
Her: No, I like it here. Besides, my friends would all be thinking I was changed or something.
Me: Yeah, you've got to keep it real.
Her: Would you like to go upstairs and have no-strings-attached sex with me?

Ha! Don't I wish that's what she said. Actually, another guy came down the hall, she started moving towards the elevator, and I let the conversation sort of trail off from there with just a couple more little statements. Because I have no skilz.

I spent a good part of the rest of the afternoon thinking of things I could have said - approaches I could have taken.

---

Me: If I actually won a million dollars, I would... probably send my parents on a cruise to Australia - they've been wanting to go there for years. And then I'd get all of my friends who could take the time off and take them all on a vacation somewhere warm and mysterious, like Thailand. Though I've been wanting to go to Brazil too. Hey, we'll do both!

How about you? Don't tell me you haven't thought about it.

---

Her: Besides, my friends would all be thinking I was changed or something.

Me: Not your good friends. You're good friends will stick around - and hope that you spend some of that money on them! Aren't I funny? We've should do something together sometime. Say, I've got an idea - do you like sex?

---

Thinking over a lifetime of awkward conversations with strangers, I realize I have two related problems:

1. Transitioning between subjects. I tend to beat one subject into the ground, because I have nowhere else to go. I've read some great posts about conversational transitions here, and need to study this more.

2. Thinking up things to say about myself. I ask too many questions. This has been a big part of my fear of approach - what do I say to her once I'm there? Again, there's lots of things to study here, and practice (over these next seven weeks and beyond) will make perfect. If I can get this part of the game hooked up, I'll be well on my way.

and_places: How you doing, brother? Hope all is well.

Best,
Oldboy

 

[izza]

Me: So, get anything good?
Her: No, nothing today.
Me: Hmmm. (looks at mail) Looks like I didn't get that million dollar check.
Her: (laughing) Oh, I got mine yesterday!
Me: Really! [Dang! Hot AND a quick wit! Say something!] So I guess you'll be moving out of the building then.
Her: No, I like it here. Besides, my friends would all be thinking I was changed or something.

Sweet, I like that million dollar check joke.

All your possible continuations, well, might've worked in context but didn't sound so good on here (things can sound bad here and great in context).

Why not continue with:

What would you do with a million dollars?

Or "do you live here, what's your name?"

But no worries, the important thing is doing the approach. You can worry about quality later, worry about approaching now.

Good sh!t, you're doing pretty good. Keep it up, you can do it.

Izza

 

[Oldboy]

Week 2, Day 3 Report

izza: Thanks for the ups! That "million dollar check" line was just the first da*n thing that jumped in my desperate noggin. Also, thanks for your insights about my continuations - simple and direct is often the best approach.

Day 3: 4 conversations
Total: 6/10

Went to the aforementioned rockin' Bday party lat night, and it was indeed rockin'. Except for the bast8rd who tried to steal the bday boy's pink flamingo. What kind of di**head would sc%ew with the bday boy at his own party? That guy was kicked out, and was lucky he didn't get his arms torn off. Side note: did you know they've stopped production on those things? BRING BACK THE PINK FLAMINGO! :rockon:

Anyhow, there were a lot of conversations - but it wasn't really hard work, you know? It was a party, there was implied social proof, people were festive, etc. So I'll count four conversations with strangers - sadly all with dudes or couples.

BUT (silver lining) this week's task made me a lot more comfortable and social tonight. I wouldn't call myself the life of the party, but I was loving going around and opening people up - whereas normally I'd be chilling with my own little circle. As it was, I didn't leave until 4am, just hanging out with my new pals. So that's a pretty fun & cool thing.

Today, I'm going to have to bust out some real conversatin'. Old school cold approach.

Best,
Oldboy

 

[Cod3r]

^ ^ I should do this eventho I'm in a LTR

I stopped a car of 3 HB's yesterday and just looked at the one in the driver seat for 3 seconds with nothing to say and then a girl in the back said...

"Trish, roll the window up"

Hahahaha, sounds funny but I just froze... even my gf would be ashamed of me



-Cod3r