Why "Whatever You Want" Keeps You Single

She says the movie looks dumb; you suddenly agree. She tests you with a little attitude; you apologize for nothing.

You think you're being easy to get along with. She reads something else entirely: a man with no edges. Nothing to hold on to. No friction, no tension, no reason to wonder what he really thinks.

The "22 Rules" taught me to push back — playfully, calmly, without needing her approval. Strange things happened after that.

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An insight into afcness

vorbis

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Theres this girl I know who I'm friendly with. (She lives an hour's drive away and is only 18 so she's not worth the trouble to lay her) Anyway, she's recently started going out with this 24 yo guy who is sounding like the stereotypical afc.

He brought her roses on the first date and told her she'd never forget him. (the way she said he said it sounded almost sinister).
He ALWAYS drives 45 minutes to see her. She doesn't yet drive.
After just 3 weeks of dating, he's told her he loves her. (She rang me today to tell me this and to ask if it was too soon)

On the flip side, she says she really really likes him BUT
they haven't had sex yet and she says she's going to make him wait a long time as she thinks this could be special. I asked her how long she normally makes a bf wait. It seemed that with her previous jerk bfs, they were having sex by now.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Seems like one of those cases where the guy is gonna get no action or is gonna end up married to her!
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

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BacardiGuy

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Seems to me like a textbook case of WAPCE (women are pure concentrated evil).

Sounds like the guy has already been friendzoned. She's milking him for attention, time, and $$, and she herself may not even consciously realize it.

She may end up sleeping with him out of pity but even that's doubtful. I don't imagine this will last.
 

vorbis

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well they have kissed but everything is definetly on her timetable. I'll let people know how it transpires!
 

vorbis

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a further update.
She rang me this morning while I was driving into work.
They still haven't had sex and they've been going out for a month.
She blames him for this as she says he hasn't made a move.
She said she put her hand on his ass once and he asked her what she was up to????

I called her on a **** test she gave him. She got him a manicure for his birthday! I nearly crashed the car laughing when I heard that. The worst part, he was quite happy to get it and really enjoyed it. She thinks he's either sexually inexperienced or gay.

Her main complaint was that he didn't touch her when they were out. Just shows the importance of kino. The upshot it seems is that she'll probally end up dumping him soon. I don't think you could get more textbook afc behaviour than what this guy is doing.
 

vp171s

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question...

why are we discussing some guy and his problems? I say mind your business and snicker when she breaks up with him, but don't post his failures here. That's just not cool. Even though I know how much better that makes you feel about yourself.
 

"She's Out of Your League"

You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.

Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.

She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.

Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.

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vorbis

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I used to be as "nice" as you seem vp171s. Thing is we're talking about a guy no one here knows. I've been in similar situations to the guy in question. If I ever met him, I'd try and give him some pointers but would know that behaviour like that is stuff only he can change for yourself. I posted it here as an example of how a promising situation can get ****ed up.
 

d9930380

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vp171s - Because it's interesting listening to this story as it gives the girl's perspective of going out with an AFC.

However it sounds like vorbis has the hots for this girl and is actively trying to break them up.

Girls tease guys because they know what power it gives them and how it actually builds the attraction. Once they meet a "nice guy", they fall into this trap because they think he might be special however if the dude then isn't willing to step up to the plate and not be a total AFC then she will start to think less of him.

It's not that all WAPCE although that's how it might seem. :->
 

vp171s

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d9930380 said:
vp171s - Because it's interesting listening to this story as it gives the girl's perspective of going out with an AFC.

However it sounds like vorbis has the hots for this girl and is actively trying to break them up.
I misunderstood. I was under the impression that vorbis was trying to convince us how he's a better guy for her. Go ahead and tell me I was wrong :whistle:
 

d9930380

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Just one last thing. Girls LIKE nice guys - they just don't like guys with NO balls. The problem is most guys go toooooo far one way or the other.
 

d9930380

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vp171s - He was trying to convince us of that - you where right. He's also trying to convince himself of that so he would have the confidence to go out with this girl.

lol
 

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

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vorbis

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actually I was wrong in my first post, she doesn't live an hour's drive away its actually an hour and a half's drive away. I would probably bang this chick if an opportunity presented itself, i.e. she came into Boston. However there's no way I'd add an hour and a half's drive onto my already hour long commute each day.

Whether their relationship works out or not is none of my business. This just struck me as textbook afc behaviour. Its a case study, we all believe afc behaviour is bad. Heres some proof.
 

vp171s

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@d9930380 - haha yup
@vorbig - no worries, and yes classic AFC material, reminds me of my own very similar experience :rock:
 

Hitman10000

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You know what I hate about people asking for advice... when they ask for advice for their "24 year old friend" when in actuality it is the original poster himself.

As to my advice to this '24 year old" or "vorbis" , I will say this: Stop asking her out on dates, stop talking to her. Let her do the talking, let her do the asking out - You've done enough to indicate strong sexual interest it's time to be a man and see if she's going to return the favor. Be a man.
 

d9930380

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vp171s - It's cool man. You like her and you're just being jealous. Your using the cummute as a sort of excuse to yourself. You agree with it but you also know that you want to bang her regardless. You're caught in two minds and before you make up your mind you don't want this "AFC" coming along and taking it.

It's quite funny actually - To us anyway. lol
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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vorbis

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eh Hitman, I have no problem posting about problems I'm having. Check my post history if you feel so strongly about it.

d9930380, do you even work? My free time is limited as it is. I live in BOSTON. Theres loads of chicks here without me feeling the need to drive out to some obsure town in the middle of Massachusetts. The only girl I have some feelings for atm has gone back to Ireland. I posted a fr about that here.
 

d9930380

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vorbis - Working right now! I'm on a break ;-)

Chill Man, I'm also just busting balls - I'm not saying she's your oneitus or anything, she was a girl you where gaming and now some other dude is moving in on your territory - It doesn't matter if she means that much to you. It's perfectly natural - We would ALL react the same way. Jealousy is a sign that your acting like the Alpha Male - Well Done!
 

vp171s

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d9930380 said:
vorbis - Working right now! I'm on a break ;-)

Chill Man, I'm also just busting balls - I'm not saying she's your oneitus or anything, she was a girl you where gaming and now some other dude is moving in on your territory - It doesn't matter if she means that much to you. It's perfectly natural - We would ALL react the same way. Jealousy is a sign that your acting like the Alpha Male - Well Done!
Question...

Why are you comforting him? What is this, day-care? Jeez
Now everybody back on topic! :trouble:

In the future, vorbis, think about what you're about to post.
"Theres this girl I know who I'm friendly with. (She lives an hour's drive away and is only 18 so she's not worth the trouble to lay her)"
Bold1: Girl, and friendly in one sentence? Who are you kidding.
Bold2: Not worth the trouble to lay but worth the trouble to talk on the phone to and ponder about her problems?

I don't think I need to go on.
 

GloriouslyInsane

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This thread was an interesting read but you can observe afc behaviour everyday around you,no need to make a thread about it.I believe the original poster still has some doubt if the "dj" way is the correct one.
 

vorbis

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well, just to show I'm fair. I've slagged off this guy enough but it seems that he's finally located his balls. She rang me there today complaining, i told her to lower her voice and stop whining, i listen to the story just for entertainment value and practicing being ****ier.

Seems he's not calling her every night as before, he also flaked on some plans they had. Generally sounded like he's downgrading her importance in his life.

Its made her mad and raised a plummeting interest level. She also said he told her he was feeling 'frisky" this week. So far they've only kissed after a month going out. So I say fair play, he made a fair few mistakes but was able to correct his game (something I fail to do at times) and repair the situation. He should be ****ing her by the end of the week.

As a sidenote, she went on a date with another guy to shop for lingerie! That poor poor guy. She rejected his attempt at kissing as she's going out with the other guy. It gets better, she tells me this poor guy told his therapist about her and the therapist says that she's bad news as she has a bf. What 18yo guy a. has a therapist b. tells his date about it!

Its these kind of messed u stories that make it worth listening to her for 10 minutes.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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