America: The Grim Truth

[The Mad Ghost]

just so you know, Julius here is one of the pawns who went over to Iraq to serve and protect his country. LOL!
So we're dealing with a mindless patriot.

Listen you [moderated by Quiksilver], Julius was taking shrapnel in Iraq, whilst you were [moderated by Quiksilver].

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

How pathetic: some people still believe that that war is in their best interest.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

I can tell you, the war was most certainly not in our best interest.

But it was not ours to ask why, but ours to do and die.

When America calls, someone has to answer. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, which is a matter of opinion anyway. But if the day should come when no one answers the call, we will be truly lost.

As for me, I didn't have a choice. I joined the Marine Corps two weeks after graduating high school in 2001. I was going to see the world, have a big adventure, and get to be a US Marine on top of it. Then, two weeks before I graduated basic, 9/11 happened, and the rest is history.

 

[The Mad Ghost]

Mods edit posts now? This is Mickey Mouse castle.

Whats the point in modifying my post, if it won't make sense? And this thread headed towards one of the many things which gets closed/locked (political war), yet its still running? Pick and choose Joker-smoker moderators.

 

[Quiksilver]

Refrain from subjective attacks and your post will not be moderated/deleted.

Discussing worldly issues is fine, but discussing party politics usually leads to a lock/delete.

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

I can tell you, the war was most certainly not in our best interest.

But it was not ours to ask why, but ours to do and die.

When America calls, someone has to answer. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, which is a matter of opinion anyway. But if the day should come when no one answers the call, we will be truly lost.

So being a tool is fine in your opinion.

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

Also:

When John went to fight the Second World War he said "My country needs me".
"His country" meant his loved ones, their lifestyles, his lifestyle, the opportunities, his future etc. Those are the things he fought to protect.


When Julius says "My country needs me in Iraq", what does "his country" mean?
It equals "rich people with specific interests" as I see it, therefore I see no reason for one to be a patriot in this situation

 

[The Mad Ghost]

All I can say is wow, It's ironic how you tree huggers and keyboard 1st Battalion Royal Arseholes, sit on a recliner in the relativley safe confines of your bedroom with a bag of doritos or texting some girl who has already put him in the friendzone but has the audacity to spew garbage.

You may be against the war, and you might take issue with the foreign policies of the U.S, but I would much prefer to live a portion of my life standing for something or defending an ideal, rather than sitting as a spectator in life, trolling my way through public internet forums.

What I see here is a man who got out his momma's basement and actually did something with his life. This is one of the few places in the world where you have the freedom of speech to overtly criticize the government without fear of repurcusion. So, you're welcome... enjoy your privilige challenguy.

But until you've stared mortality in the face, heard the hissing sound of hot lead whizzing by you, get lost in the gaze of oppressed people who see you as a saviour or drag the wounded 20 yr old to safety hoping that one day he could write a thread about his teenage heartbreak story, you have no grounds to provide the negative input.



Julius, Thank you for serving.

Semper Fi.

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

All I can say is wow, It's ironic how you tree huggers and keyboard 1st Battalion Royal Arseholes, sit on a recliner in the relativley safe confines of your bedroom with a bag of doritos or texting some girl who has already put him in the friendzone but has the audacity to spew garbage.

nice, dude! you should start wearing a vagina since you are pretty good at attacking people without using one ounce of logic.
First it was that post Qucksilver modified and now this.

but I would much prefer to live a portion of my life standing for something or defending an ideal, rather than sitting as a spectator in life, trolling my way through public internet forums.

Good! You have hero material in yourself, but please explain which ideal are the soldiers in Iraq protecting.
And which ideal are you, The Mad Ghost, standing for in real life?

This is one of the few places in the world where you have the freedom of speech to overtly criticize the government without fear of repurcusion. So, you're welcome... enjoy your privilige challenguy.

I'll be enjoying the privilege over here, in Romania, one of the many other places where you can speak whatever you want.
But God forbid that either you or myself get
into the political apparatus of our countries and not keep their rhythm, for we will see that the free speech is not absolute.

But why did you mention the free speech? Were the Iraqians a threat to your human rights?

Or maybe the Americans' purpose in Iraq is bringing harmony and preaching the basic human rights, eh?

But until you've stared mortality in the face, heard the hissing sound of hot lead whizzing by you, get lost in the gaze of oppressed people who see you as a saviour or drag the wounded 20 yr old to safety hoping that one day he could write a thread about his teenage heartbreak story, you have no grounds to provide the negative input.



Julius, Thank you for serving.

Semper Fi.

yet another 'reasoning' lacking logic. As you put it, I cannot provide negative input about one of the many African civil wars because I haven't fought any war in my days.

And I essentially use my free speech right and criticise whoever and whatever I want. You don't seem to like that too much, do you? you'd kick my ass IRL, am I right?


Anyway, to sum up my thoughts and provide my last input on this matter (there's no way any of us would change our opinions, anyway):
I carry the utmost respect for whoever fought a war worth fighting (eg: WW2), but for the soldiers in the Middle East I can only recognize their bravity and that's it.

 

[wait_out]

Soldiers don't make policy, they are responsible for executing it. You drawing an equivalence between Julius and American foreign policy is like being outraged at a Walmart cashier for how they handle production in China.

Second, the fact that he's been overseas means there's a fair chance he knows a lot more about Iraq and the reality of modern war than you do. One thing he knows for sure is that there is a lot of divergence WITHIN the system, there being good units and bad units. The Bush administration's goal may have been principally geopolitics and control. A professional platoon on the ground may care more about trying to stabilize their sector so they don't have to watch the young family that always smiles and waves to them as they leave their strong point murdered by death squads. Being deployed doesn't mean you stop being human.

CGF - would you rather that hypothetical family be protected by professional soldiers, who feel a sense of ethics and responsibility to their country? Or people who are not competent, not honourable, and who are there because nobody better was available to replace them?

You have not really thought this through. Neither have lots of other people... but here is a golden opportunity, you are talking to people who've experienced a different slices of life, smacking you upside the head with new points of views and their unique experiences. So do you really want to choose to be ignorant?

 

[BigJimbo]

I love how some think traveling the world killing people and blowing things up is "experiencing the culture". I travel the world boozing, dating, clubbing, baring (is that a word?), buying, etc. In the end I harm not a soul. I bring money to certain economies, date their most beautiful girls, and drink their local booze and eat their local foods. Hell, I NEED TO BE THANKED! The world LOVES ME! My weapon of choice is a wallet. You want to spread Americanism? Just send me.

Saddest thing is that people don't forget. I could have single handedly solved the problems in Serbia. You could have sent me and a few friends in with some money, the names of the coolest bars/discos, and our American issued smiles (Americans have a certain constant smile). We would have succeeded where America and the West failed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOxTVhB5sY&feature=related
Look. Less than 10 years later and the Serbs still don't forget. Wow. There goes the USA Embassy. Sad. They are not destroying it because I was once in Serbia. Hell no. Serbs love me. Nice girls as well.

Seriously. It is called "Blowback". You can't kill innocent people and be forgiven in this day and age. Use other strategies. It is a VERY legit idea that many in the USA intelligence sector agree with. Brains over bullets.

 

[Alle_Gory]

You may be against the war, and you might take issue with the foreign policies of the U.S, but I would much prefer to live a portion of my life standing for something or defending an ideal, rather than sitting as a spectator in life, trolling my way through public internet forums.

I agree. But what ideal is the current wars defending?

 

[Speculator E]

Also:

When John went to fight the Second World War he said "My country needs me".
"His country" meant his loved ones, their lifestyles, his lifestyle, the opportunities, his future etc. Those are the things he fought to protect.

When Julius says "My country needs me in Iraq", what does "his country" mean?
It equals "rich people with specific interests" as I see it, therefore I see no reason for one to be a patriot in this situation

I agree. I know a few people in the military. Most who join the military do it for one reason: Needed money. Not to be patriotic, but needed money. I would be more inclined to respect Julius if he had just admitted it. And if what he says is true, then I think he's kind of an idiot.

I'm not bashing the military. Just him. I support what the people in it does. I acknowledge that their jobs are dangerous. But people in the military are just regular people who needed a job. They didn't join because they were honorable people. There isn't a reason to put the military on a pedestal just because they are the military.

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

Perfectly said, Spec!

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

'm not going to argue with anybody here. Frankly, I don't care.

But to those who think no good came from the Iraq war, you are mistaken.

Sadam was a terrible dictator.

I can tell you stories that were told to me PERSONALLY by the people I met in Iraq. These stories made me sick to my stomach.

Like the ex-colonel who was covered in burns from head to toe. This guys was an Iraqi war hero (when the U.S. invaded Iraq two decades ago) who was shot down by an American fighter.

He was recovered by the Iraqis and sent to a Sadam torture cell where we was literally boiled alive. Why? Because he lost one of Sadam's planes.

His story was not unique. We met many, many people who were either victims of horrific torture and murder, or their family members were.

You guys don't know anything you think you know. You know what is shown in the two minute clip on CNN but really, you don't know anything.

And to Speculator E, I agree 100%. However here is the real truth: The guys who go in for the money or because they have no where else to go are the guys who choose the easiest, safest jobs they can. The jobs where they will learn a good skill and survive to return to civilian life. The guys who do it to make a difference are the guys who choose the miserable, hard, dangerous jobs. 99% of the Marines I worked with did NOT join for any benefit or money. Trust me, (and I don't expect you to understand) but there are a million easier ways to make a buck.

 

[squirrels]

Do you believe in santa claus as well??

To believe the official 911 story is like believing santa claus exists. You are just deluding yourself.

It's 2010 brah get with the program do some research geez..

Awesome argument. My eyes are opened.

To tell the truth, I honestly can't tell whether your post is in earnest or tongue-in-cheek.

Anyone who says "brah" should be banned from voting forever.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Sadam was a terrible dictator.

Yeah and America put him in power and gave him weapons.

 

[Speculator E]

The guys who do it to make a difference are the guys who choose the miserable, hard, dangerous jobs. 99% of the Marines I worked with did NOT join for any benefit or money. Trust me, (and I don't expect you to understand) but there are a million easier ways to make a buck.

Then I'm sorry for them, but respect what they're doing. Some guys who are young have this "save the world" naive mentality. This is because they haven't face any pain from the real world to make them bitter. Like a naive AFC who think all women are princesses. I hope your buddies will toughen up from the experience. But I still don't have sympathy for them. Unless you're privilege, every men got to struggle. Each man has his own path to take. A man's job is to try to make it in a world that is unfair.

 

[ChalengeGuyFan]

But to those who think no good came from the Iraq war, you are mistaken.

Sadam was a terrible dictator.

[..]

His story was not unique. We met many, many people who were either victims of horrific torture and murder, or their family members were.

That was a secondary effect and it's not an improvement in the American's standard of life. I hope that there is not one person in this world who believes that the regime's cruelty towards their own people was one of the reasons for invasion, as it would take a naivety out of this world to believe so.

However here is the real truth: The guys who go in for the money or because they have no where else to go are the guys who choose the easiest, safest jobs they can. The jobs where they will learn a good skill and survive to return to civilian life. The guys who do it to make a difference are the guys who choose the miserable, hard, dangerous jobs. 99% of the Marines I worked with did NOT join for any benefit or money. Trust me, (and I don't expect you to understand) but there are a million easier ways to make a buck.

To cite one of the propagandistic sources, Nat Geo, "kids" were recruited from the streets with promises of a good salary, paid education etc.

And others went there for the thrills and the ego boost, like Julius:

I was going to see the world, have a big adventure, and get to be a US Marine on top of it.

But of course most of the soldiers will end up saying that they wanted to make a difference because:
1. they align with the military mindset
2. it's not nice out there and it would look bad (on the return) to say that you did it for the money, esp. when the society considers you a hero

 

[cordoncordon]

To be honest, and as hard as it is for me to believe, I can't argue with the original premise. It makes me sick what is happening to this country. From the Fed destroying our currency and promoting their own agenda of a North American Union and ultimately one world govt. To massive illegal immigration. To what I call the dumbing down of American citizens all as a means of control...I fear for this country. Australia is looking better and better.