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Alpha/ Beta stuff is largely wrong

zekko

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taiyuu_otoko said:
Even among male only groups or female only groups, there is going to be an individual who becomes the "alpha."
I've seen a few situations where a big fat guy has been the loudest and most controlling, so he became the guy who was running things. He was essentially the "alpha" of the group, I guess, since he could get other people to follow him just through the force of his personality and his will to bulldoze over everybody, and become the center of attention.

But in this case, he wasn't necessarily the guy with the highest Sexual Market Value. That would usually go to the guy who was best looking.

I've known a few of these fat control freak kind of guys, and although they fit many aspects of an "alpha", I've noticed they are actually rather insecure. I suppose as coping mechanisms, they try to control everything, and force themselves into the top spot.
 

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I knew the alpha-beta dichotomy was bunk after only a few months on this board. Attraction is a lot more variable than a lot of what PUA mantra would have you think. Good write up OP.
Warrior74 said:
If you're arguing Alpha vs. Beta on the internet you're going to have a bad time. Focus on being the best you can be period. That's all that should matter in your life.
This too.

Sounds like a better version of "be yourself", but I dig it.
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
So, the manosphere attempting to make sense of a "largely mysterious process" is futile, but your attempts to explain it in your next sentences are valid?



So, are women largely mysterious, or do you have some insight the manosphere hasn't considered in 15+ years?

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/
Rollo the reason i am saying that they are mysterious is becuz they are largely a mystery to even themselves.

If you ask why a girl is attracted to a certain guy, she will list a bunch of qualities like smarts, kindness, confidence etc. But these qualities are present in many guys that she has dated or is friends with. If you call her out on that she will then try to back rationalize why this one in particular stole her heart. Its all bull**** becuz many times the guy is not universally attractive. She is the only one that finds him attractive. Other girls like her gf's are like " i dont know what you see in him but ok, whatever". If you really probe and ask these women why this guy as opposed to another guy...many will not be able to really tell you why. They just say stuff like " i dont know, a connection i guess".


Some women even have attractive male friends they love to death (platonically) but they will never give them sex. When you ask them why they will say, its not personal and these guys are amazing but they just wont give them sex. These are the guys that they try to hook their hot female friends up with. This leads me to believe that there is a more mysterious component to attraction. Mysterious i mean subconscious and deeply psychological.

The only time that attraction can approach an objective measure is in the department of looks. Then it makes sense why a girl picks a certain guy. But when the guy is ugly, and she even admits he is ugly, but there is a certain X factor (that only she sees) then the only conclusion is that attraction is very subconscious. Rollo please explain where the flaw in my reasoning is. Maybe i am overlooking something.
 

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That Heartiste article is a good example of why I don't care for him or his site. If you don't agree with him on something then you are labeled a hater, and in that article he comes up with all sorts of labels as to what type of hater you are.

So the manosphere has been around for over 15 years and has considered all the angles? So that means that Pandora can't express his opinion or open up subjects for debate? I guess we may as well close up shop, gentlemen. The manosphere has considered all subjects, issued its conclusions, and there is nothing more to discuss. Time to close the forum.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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If you ask why a girl is attracted to a certain guy, she will list a bunch of qualities like smarts, kindness, confidence etc.
When a woman is all alone and working herself with a vibrator, do you suppose she's fantasizing about how smart, confident, humorous, kind and what a great father the object of her fantasy is?

Attraction and arousal require different things.

Rollo the reason i am saying that they are mysterious is becuz they are largely a mystery to even themselves.
And I'm saying that this notion is exactly what I'd expect from a feminized culture that needed a convenient discouragement to dissuade men from even attempting to understand women.
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
And I'm saying that this notion is exactly what I'd expect from a feminized culture that needed a convenient discouragement to dissuade men from even attempting to understand women.
Was waiting for someone to call this bullsh!t out. Good call Rollo :up:


Jaylan said:
I knew the alpha-beta dichotomy was bunk after only a few months on this board. Good write up OP.
This too.
When gaylan gets overly excited you just know she probably peed herself a little (and to a lesser extent our resident anti-gamer zecko) you can almost guarantee you're reading blue pill twaddle fit for the latest click bait MSM site.
 

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There was an article, **** it's still here obviously lol that pook made. The older I get, the more I can appreciate it. The womanize article that he created.

If you ask why a girl is attracted to a certain guy, she will list a bunch of qualities like smarts, kindness, confidence etc. B
= "When I say I want a guy who is smart, kind and confident, I mean I want a man like George Clooney"



women really are quite damn easy to understand once you understand the language that they speak in. Being hot, / attractive, is like the unspoken prerequisite to all things.



t
Some women even have attractive male friends they love to death (platonically) but they will never give them sex. When you ask them why they will say, its not personal and these guys are amazing but they just wont give them sex. These are the guys that they try to hook their hot female friends up with. This leads me to believe that there is a more mysterious component to attraction. Mysterious i mean subconscious and deeply psychological.

I've been that guy. and in restrospect, every last woman that did this to me was bat **** cray cray, depressive, something. they weren't right.


NORMAL women do not act like this. That's what pandora is trying to say. NORMAL women do not friendzone amazing guys for losers / bums / jerks.


The problem is, you can't attract all women. Game / Being a DJ / Whatever you want to insert here is not supposed to help you have sex with every woman you meet, it's supposed to help you realize which women are worth it and give you the tools to do that.
 

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Enough abstractions. None of you even hazarded a guess before.

Which one is the Alpha?

Let's see how many of you can get it right.

I happen to know the answer with 100% certainty. I can see one or two of you know as well.
 

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samspade said:
Enough abstractions. None of you even hazarded a guess before.

Which one is the Alpha?

Let's see how many of you can get it right.

I happen to know the answer with 100% certainty. I can see one or two of you know as well.
I happen to know with 100% certainty also.

* Kicked the Jwish oligarchs who were leaching his country dry the fvck out.

* Told the globalist cultural marxists to go fvck themselves.

* Told the world he's going to stabilize native (basically white, which is something you don't dare say to the leftist west) birth rates before he lets in the orc hordes.

* Attempting to bring back Christian morality and traditionalism to Russia.

* Told the EU/US shills to go fvck themselves.

* Told the faggots to take it back to the bedroom away from children.

If you told me you found a man with even half the balls of Putin I'd call you a liar.
 

zekko

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( . )( . ) said:
our resident anti-gamer zecko
Welcome back, tits. I don't think I'm anti-gamer. I've found a lot of the techniques (like kino) to be wildly effective. But I don't view the manosphere as some sort of sacred cow whose edicts must never be questioned.

I also don't buy into all of the stereotypes that PUAs talk about. I'd go into some of them, but I don't want to sidetrack the thread. The main thing is, if the stereotypes don't match what I see in real life, then I have to question them. I've come to understand that some of this has to do with where I live. If I lived in New York instead of the midwest, I'm sure my observations would be very different. But the point for me is whether or not they apply to my life.

As I said before, I believe the alpha/beta concept is a very solid one. I just think it's overplayed. There are other factors at work when it comes to attraction, and I'm sure most PUAs would agree.
 

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Remember, Alphas come in many different flavors:

  • Dr. B is 60 years old. He originally came to the US as an immigrant from a poor country. He became a leading authority in his particular field. Today he rakes in a sh*tload of money, has many people working under him, and everywhere he walks in the hospital, people take notice. He has saved hundreds of lives. Constantly, people come to him for advice (both medical and personal). Any time the hospital or local healthcare authorities need to make a major decision (often involving hundreds of millions of dollars), they consult him. He has a loving wife and two children who are both doctors who are also quite wealthy. His grandchildren all look poised to be extremely successful as well.
  • Joe is 25 years old. Joe was always a bit bigger than most, but several years ago he took up bodybuilding. Through a combination of favorable genetics, hard work in the gym, good eating habits and also taking supplements/gear, he has sculpted a very impressive physique. At the gym, everyone is awestruck by the amount of weight he can lift. Guys want to be him and girls want get with him. Joe likes to go to the club every weekend. He drinks a few beers, hits the dance floor and smashes a hot new piece of @$$ every week.
  • Mark is 30 years old. He always had an interest in music and he picked up the guitar when he was 14. He had a natural talent for it which he honed over the years. He was somewhat shy and introverted when he was a kid but he gained a lot of confidence as his songwriting/performing skills improved. Today, Mark has gained some decent recognition in his area. He plays music as a side gig at small but packed venues. Mark has dated several stunning women over the years, most of whom he met through his involvement in the local music scene.
  • Carlos is 40 years old. He grew up in a poor, crime-ridden neighborhood. He was raised by a single mother and rarely got to see his father. Like many in his community, he got involved in the drug trade. Initially, he started out at the bottom of the totem-pole but he had a good talent for moving product. He moved up the hierarchy by brutally murdering opponents, intimidating people and by striking useful alliances. He is infamous for his ruthlessness. Carlos has the market for his particular drug cornered on his turf. He is widely feared. Carlos always has a bunch of beautiful young women that he f*cks and sometimes impregnates. No one is quite sure how many kids he has fathered.
 

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zekko said:
Welcome back, tits. I don't think I'm anti-gamer. I've found a lot of the techniques (like kino) to be wildly effective. But I don't view the manosphere as some sort of sacred cow whose edicts must never be questioned.

I also don't buy into all of the stereotypes that PUAs talk about. I'd go into some of them, but I don't want to sidetrack the thread. The main thing is, if the stereotypes don't match what I see in real life, then I have to question them. I've come to understand that some of this has to do with where I live. If I lived in New York instead of the midwest, I'm sure my observations would be very different. But the point for me is whether or not they apply to my life.

As I said before, I believe the alpha/beta concept is a very solid one. I just think it's overplayed. There are other factors at work when it comes to attraction, and I'm sure most PUAs would agree.
You think too much, you have too much free time on your hands and not enough struggles. The essence of fem-tard-liberalism. Men with any sense see the manosphere, see the truth, accept it and move on. Folks like you and gaylan try to explain it away and point at insignificant sh*t that you "don't buy into" and look long and hard for exceptions to the hard fast rules. Who the f*ck cares if you buy into it or not, but you better if you want to understand what's going on out there. No matter how much you question, reality is going to be reality. You're only making things harder on yourself.
 

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samspade said:
Enough abstractions. None of you even hazarded a guess before.

Which one is the Alpha?

Let's see how many of you can get it right.

I happen to know the answer with 100% certainty. I can see one or two of you know as well.
Putin.

If you were to over-analyze the photo you'd say welll...the biker guy is taller, all his pals are looking at him, and it appears to be on his turf. But that's all posturing. As a man you just KNOW it's Putin. That guy has balls that clank.





I'll say one last thing about this overdone topic: Alpha/Beta is certainly contextual. The terms can make a useful teaching tool. But a bunch of guys---big name bloggers included---arguing about the definitions (all of which coincidentally are tailored to their own behaviors) is the definition of irony. I have never in my life known a true alpha-type male to theorize, debate, or peacock as to what an "alpha" is. He would never even use these fvcking terms, because he is too busy being a boss at life.
 

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Lexington said:
Remember, Alphas come in many different flavors
I agree. Modern life is complicated enough that a lot of different types can fit into the alpha role. Women can choose any one of them. The main thing is that they want a top dog, partly so they can brag to their female friends.

speed dawg said:
You think too much, you have too much free time on your hands and not enough struggles. The essence of fem-tard-liberalism. Men with any sense see the manosphere, see the truth, accept it and move on. Folks like you and gaylan try to explain it away and point at insignificant sh*t that you "don't buy into" and look long and hard for exceptions to the hard fast rules. Who the f*ck cares if you buy into it or not, but you better if you want to understand what's going on out there. No matter how much you question, reality is going to be reality. You're only making things harder on yourself.
You're completely off base. Maybe I don't have enough struggles right now, but the reason for that is that I put in the work when I was younger, and I'm putting the finishing touches on my life plan right now. Maybe I think too much, but if you think that I am a feminist or a liberal of any kind, clearly you are not thinking enough. Calling someone is a feminist is the classic shaming tactic of someone who blindly follows everything the manosphere says instead of thinking for themselves.

I am not explaining anything away. I go by what I see happening around me, not what I read on the internet. Yet you tell me that I'm supposed to ignore the evidence of what I observe in reality and instead listen to a bunch of bloggers? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. In fact, you don't even know what kind of stereotypes I am talking about, since I didn't give any examples.

Check out this quote from Danger from the thread on Donald Sterling:
"My statement is pointed directly at the illogical statement that the top 1% of a race defines the entire 100%. This is as reprehensible as judging all blacks based on the 15% of black men in the US who are convicted felons."

Notice how the stereotypes are based on only a small minority of the entire sample? That's the way a lot of PUA stereotypes are formed, which is one reason I am dubious of them.
 

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Alpha and Beta are relative terms for theorhetical models so it's not shocking that they are used and misapplied.

When a mistake is made it has little or nothing to do with being alpha or beta. The mistake has to do with insecurity in one shape or another.

Alpha and Beta are models of being. Alpha= leader Beta = Follower.

We all have alpha and beta versions of our self and part of being an alpha is understanding that the only limitations there are those that cannot be controlled. The beta version imposes lself-limiting beliefs to avoid failure.
 

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Dear All,
Yeah agree with Collossus,Putin has Chrome Vanadium balls,up there with Maggie Thatcher LOL...The fact that his tactics and objectives are debatable is another issue...this Guy is a Motivator a Mans Man...Like Hitler,he could give his people back their self respect for a few years before he leads them to self destruction!
 

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Alpha/Beta stuff is largely wrong...

Yes, it is. Women need to be Beta, Men need to be Alpha. Anything else is just a freaking time bomb.
 

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Colossus said:
I'll say one last thing about this overdone topic: Alpha/Beta is certainly contextual. The terms can make a useful teaching tool. But a bunch of guys---big name bloggers included---arguing about the definitions (all of which coincidentally are tailored to their own behaviors) is the definition of irony. I have never in my life known a true alpha-type male to theorize, debate, or peacock as to what an "alpha" is. He would never even use these fvcking terms, because he is too busy being a boss at life.
THIS is the correct answer. If you're analyzing a photo and trying to pick an Alpha and a Beta from a photo, you're just a guy in front of a computer screen. Of course it's a compelling picture and I'm not trying to "get" anyone here; I know you all have some level of Game and success with women (and other men). That's all that matters - that you are improving your life and your self. Recognize and learn from other men when you can but don't waste time with, as Colossus said, online d!ck-measuring contests. There are plenty of real-world arenas in which you can compete.
 

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Scaramouche said:
Like Hitler,he could give his people back their self respect for a few years before he leads them to self destruction!
No doubt.....it seems like these guys do some good things and then BOOM their ego explodes and they end up wanting to take over the world or some sh*t, killing everyone in their path that might oppose them.

Of course, Hitler was a sociopath from the the beginning. Let's hope Putin is not.
 

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NORMAL women do not act like this. That's what pandora is trying to say. NORMAL women do not friendzone amazing guys for losers / bums / jerks. [/QUOTE]

It should be that an amazing guy not be "on the market" to begin with. Of course, with so many single mommies and obese women around, there are such amazing men that are dateless. :cuss:
 
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