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Alpha/ Beta stuff is largely wrong

Pandora

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When we fail with a women we think that it was becuz we just were not "dark triad' or " alpha" enough. This is bullshi**. We failed becuz the women on a deep psychological level just did not respond to us. It had nothing to do with alpha or beta. It had to do with you dont remind her of something in her childhood. The manosphere wants to make a largely mysterious process into one that is rational and understandable. So we come up with this designation of alpha and beta. This is wrong.

About 50% of women ( and 90% of attention *****s) grew up with abusive or absent fathers. So they are attracted to dark triad traits. This is not ideal. So why is the manosphere using what these damaged women prefer as the template for what a man should be. They call it being "alpha". This is nonsense.

Mentally healthy women do not go for alpha jerks. I think this alpha/ beta mindset has been very oversimplified by the PUA community and pop culture. A women from a good family is going to want to be with a guy that resembles her father. Fathers have mostly Beta qualities with a little bit of Alpha mixed in. Good fathers do not act like jerks or exhibit the dark triad traits. Why is this called beta then?

The men that dysfunctional girls dump you for are usually not alpha. They are usually losers. These guys are not even universally attractive to women. They often have self esteem issues and all types of other problems. They often have no job. Some may argue that they exhibit alpha qualities like aloofness and outcome independence etc. This is false. They exhibit it to that girl becuz they know they have her already. They do not exhibit these traits to women that are not already deeply attracted to them.

If a true alpha were to date these women, these women would run. They would be too afraid emotionally and they would leave these guys or friendzone him. Imagine if an 6ft accountant who is an all around good guy where to date a damaged women. She would prob go on a couple dates with them, then string him along and then dump him for her dead beat ex bf.
It had nothing to do with alpha or beta. It had to do with what she responds to on a psychological level.

CAUTION: I will concede that extremely AFC behaviors like calling WAYY too much or being too needy do turn all women off. But most men are not that extreme. The average socially adjusted guy does not do that but yet he still has problems with holding down a LTR with damaged women.
 

Pandora

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Girls respond to what they respond to. For every girl it is different. There are a few universal traits that all women love, but the rest is pretty random. Most of our mental processes are subconscious. They are largely mysterious ( id,ego, superego stuff.) Pick any girl you know. Look at her boyfriend. I can promise you that her boyfriend does not necessarily show any more alpha traits that any other suitors. Its just that for some reason she just liked his face and his personality.
Thats why you can be as "alpha" as you want but dating is still largely a numbers game. You are just looking for the girl that responds to your particular personality. You just need to not be needy and mess it up.
 

zekko

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Pandora said:
Thats why you can be as "alpha" as you want but dating is still largely a numbers game. You are just looking for the girl that responds to your particular personality. You just need to not be needy and mess it up.
I agree that the alpha/beta stuff is largely overplayed. It's a legitimate concept, but it seems like some PUAs want to boil the entire dating experience down to this. Like you say, there are a lot of other factors at play. But I think that the feminine responds to the masculine.

People are different. Just like one girl likes heavy metal and another likes the Backstreet Boys. I've also read that genetics play a big part in attraction as well - if someone is lacking something in the gene pool they respond well to someone who has that gene. Just an example.
 

Colossus

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I've long said the the alpha/beta dichotomy is useful as a teaching tool, but beyond that it just amounts to a big internet d!ck-measuring contest.
 

G_Govan

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People do overuse the terms, but it doesn't make them any less valid.

You aren't supposed to define literally everything you see through the lens of alpha/beta. If you do, it means you don't fully grasp the concept.

There's always varying degrees and grey areas in between and no one epitomizes any ideal 100% of the time.

A more accurate statement would be "The way people interpret Alpha/ beta stuff is largely wrong."

I generally observe AFBB (alpha fux beta bux). Key word generally and this applies to most women, but I only really pay attention to the ones I find attractive.

Men try to define what women should be attracted to and it rarely aligns with reality.
 

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Pandora

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G_Govan said:
Men try to define what women should be attracted to and it rarely aligns with reality.
Yeh man for all the talk of women being attracted to guys that have hobbies, improve themselves, get in shape, have a career, emotional control and blah blah blah....this only applies to certain girls. Men think that women should be attracted to emotional control and self improvement. But the reality is that many women ( damaged) dont think a well rounded man is alpha. He will be the beta to the alpha ex bf (loser bum with no job). The self improved well rounded man will be the beta bux while the loser guy will be the alpha fux. Soo your right in reality different women interpret alpha very differently.

Now all women enjoy the emotional tampon (attention) qualities of the well rounded self improved guy, not all women get sexually excited by it. So in societies eyes he is alpha, but to her he is beta.
 

zekko

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Pandora said:
He will be the beta to the alpha ex bf (loser bum with no job). The self improved well rounded man will be the beta bux while the loser guy will be the alpha fux. Soo your right in reality different women interpret alpha very differently.

Now all women enjoy the emotional tampon (attention) qualities of the well rounded self improved guy, not all women get sexually excited by it.
Pfft. Seriously, I can't imagine losing a chick to some loser bum with no job. Certainly not any woman I would be interested in. I'm a well rounded improved guy, but I'm certainly no emotional tampon. How the hell are they raising males these days?
 

backbreaker

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really the avg person on this website can really be broken down into a few catogories


1. divorced guys trying to recalibrate to the game

2. guys who are in their 20's who don't have enough value to date the women they want to date

3. guys who have no male figures to show them what to do and need some guidence


the avg guy isn't a loser or totally clueless with women.
 

bmp2cpm

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backbreaker said:
really the avg person on this website can really be broken down into a few catogories


1. divorced guys trying to recalibrate to the game

2. guys who are in their 20's who don't have enough value to date the women they want to date

3. guys who have no male figures to show them what to do and need some guidence


the avg guy isn't a loser or totally clueless with women.
I'm number 3!
 

taiyuu_otoko

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The "Alpha" label, and the whole "alpha-beta" dichotomy are more descriptive than prescriptive.

Even among male only groups or female only groups, there is going to be an individual who becomes the "alpha."

In an interesting experiment described in one of Cialdini's books, they took high school males, at some kind of summer camp, and split them into various groups at random. In each group there was a specific social ranking. Then they took all those at the top, and stuck them in a certain group, as well as the very bottom dude from each group, and put them in a group together.

Again, a specific "alpha" emerged.

It doesn't matter where you get them, or what their backgrounds are, you stick a bunch of males and females together and the top few males will get most of the women. These can be accurately described as "alpha."

But it's only an "after the fact" label that you can observe after everybody feels each other out.

You can't very well predict whether or not somebody will be "alpha" or not unless you see them in action vs. the competition.

When a girl dumps a guy, it's not because he doesn't measure up to some "objective" alpha-scale. It's because he doesn't measure compared whatever guys she's interacted with before, and expects to interact with in the near future. And HOW SHE DETERMINES this is also based on her own subjective values and perceptions of herself.

Kind of like stock market charts. Every girls got her own, internal "alpha-male" moving average based on her recent history.

You just gotta be north of that to get some.
 

VladPatton

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It's all perception. She likes what she likes. It's like trying to put 2 types of labels on a mountain of unmarked cans and expecting to match the content with the label every time. Just be a man, and next whoever doesn't like you in life.
 

VladPatton

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taiyuu_otoko said:
The "Alpha" label, and the whole "alpha-beta" dichotomy are more descriptive than prescriptive.

Even among male only groups or female only groups, there is going to be an individual who becomes the "alpha."

In an interesting experiment described in one of Cialdini's books, they took high school males, at some kind of summer camp, and split them into various groups at random. In each group there was a specific social ranking. Then they took all those at the top, and stuck them in a certain group, as well as the very bottom dude from each group, and put them in a group together.

Again, a specific "alpha" emerged.

It doesn't matter where you get them, or what their backgrounds are, you stick a bunch of males and females together and the top few males will get most of the women. These can be accurately described as "alpha."

But it's only an "after the fact" label that you can observe after everybody feels each other out.

You can't very well predict whether or not somebody will be "alpha" or not unless you see them in action vs. the competition.

When a girl dumps a guy, it's not because he doesn't measure up to some "objective" alpha-scale. It's because he doesn't measure compared whatever guys she's interacted with before, and expects to interact with in the near future. And HOW SHE DETERMINES this is also based on her own subjective values and perceptions of herself.

Kind of like stock market charts. Every girls got her own, internal "alpha-male" moving average based on her recent history.

You just gotta be north of that to get some.

And even THEN, she can still dump you for the looser bum because he has a really cute tattoo on his neck LOL. There's really no rhyme or reason when dealing with human taste.
 

Pandora

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taiyuu_otoko said:
When a girl dumps a guy, it's not because he doesn't measure up to some "objective" alpha-scale. It's because he doesn't measure compared whatever guys she's interacted with before, and expects to interact with in the near future. And HOW SHE DETERMINES this is also based on her own subjective values and perceptions of herself.

Kind of like stock market charts. Every girls got her own, internal "alpha-male" moving average based on her recent history.

You just gotta be north of that to get some.
Yeh this is what im trying to say basically.
 

Pandora

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VladPatton said:
Just be a man, and next whoever doesn't like you in life.
Yeh man. This is the only way to do it without going crazy. Ur self esteem will suffer if you try to change urself to fit what you think these girls want. Just be a man i guess.
 

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Zunder

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Pandora: What you are not getting or understanding is that ALL women are effing nuts, just that it is to varying degrees. Think about it - is there a woman you have met in the world and got to know reasonably well that is not vkced up in some respect - no matter how "well grounded" they appear to be. Even such a noble woman as Mother Teresa was fvcking nuts. Who would dedicate their lives to complete altruism? See - NUTS.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear Pandora,
BPD and Alpha,Beta are overused...some correspondents here use the term Alpha as synonymous with desirable,Beta similarly undesirable...silly really!
 

Warrior74

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If you're arguing Alpha vs. Beta on the internet you're going to have a bad time. Focus on being the best you can be period. That's all that should matter in your life.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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The manosphere wants to make a largely mysterious process into one that is rational and understandable.
So, the manosphere attempting to make sense of a "largely mysterious process" is futile, but your attempts to explain it in your next sentences are valid?

The men that dysfunctional girls dump you for are usually not alpha. They are usually losers. These guys are not even universally attractive to women. They often have self esteem issues and all types of other problems. They often have no job. Some may argue that they exhibit alpha qualities like aloofness and outcome independence etc. This is false. They exhibit it to that girl becuz they know they have her already. They do not exhibit these traits to women that are not already deeply attracted to them.
So, are women largely mysterious, or do you have some insight the manosphere hasn't considered in 15+ years?

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/

4. StrawHate

Hater: You argue a false alpha/beta dichotomy.

What part of dregs –> lesser omega –> greater omega –> lesser beta –> beta –> greater beta –> lesser alpha –> alpha –> super alpha don’t you understand? (Please note the date stamp of that post.)


8. False Premises Hate

Hater: Yeah, sure, game works well for picking up low self-esteem bar skanks.

A great deal of hate is fueled by false premises. Concocting convenient scenarios, imagining the worst of your enemies, and reinterpreting their successes are a salve for the burned ego. Newsflash: your thin-skinned indignation is not my moral crisis.
 

samspade

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Warrior74 said:
If you're arguing Alpha vs. Beta on the internet you're going to have a bad time. Focus on being the best you can be period. That's all that should matter in your life.
Agreed. It's a tiresome argument. Unless you are an absolute newbie learning Game Dynamics 101, or an anthropologist, it's a waste of man's time to sit around evaluating and ranking other men.

But if you insist, have at it:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/30/article-0-0DA02B8900000578-848_634x513.jpg
 
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