AFC no more!

[Die Hard]

I'm 28 and I've always been an AFC and never could see the stupidity of all the stereotypical AFC beliefs which I've been taking for the truth all my life. I've been cured now, just from one day to the other (this was 2 days ago). I'm gonna make a change in my life, it's over with the bull****, I'm gonna reach my full potential (not just with women but with life in general). I'll be a real man now, like I was always supposed to be :box:.

Now it's a matter of doing it. I'm already learning to feel quite comfortable around girls since my colleagues at my new job are 75% women, 25% men. It's a nice learning environment, I try to practice all the basic skills on them: eye contact, body language, chatting with them, do some kino... But I don't wanna go any further because people need to work quite closely together in this job. Kinda frustrating: Lots of girls to go for but knowing it's not smart to actually do it. And if I really wanna get any further with my game, I need to go beyond the basics and actually fix some numbers and go on dates. So that leaves two big opportunities: Being at the club on Saturday night and travelling to work. Saturday nights don't really need much thought right now, I can figure out how to do things in that setting. What occupies my thoughts more right now, is travelling to and from work. I travel by bus and I regularly see HB's in the bus. I want to do more with these particular situations/moments . Obviously I can only talk to them if I have the guts to go and sit next to them. But all kinds of factors go through my mind and I'd like your opinions, fellas.

Suppose I'm already sitting and a HB enters the bus and sits down somewhere, do I just get up off my current seat and take a seat next to her and do my thing? I feel that's a bit too "desperate" or do you guys think it doesn't matter? So what about when they already sit and I enter the bus? If there are totally free seats (I mean a free pair of seats), isn't it kinda too direct when I pick a seat next to her instead of a totally free pair of seats? It's very obvious that I want to hit at her then... but maybe I just shouldn't care about that? And what about the other passengers? Most of the time buses are kinda quiet, people can easily overhear your conversations...I'd feel a lot more comfortable talking to a chick when no on else is listening in on us. So how much of an "I don't care about anything, just do it!!"-attitude should I have? Maybe I should build it up gradually: first only pick the moments when you enter the bus and the chick is already sitting and little people can listen in, then move up from there to more difficult situations? Any good opening tips for this particular situation? First thing that comes to my mind is: "Hi, where are you travelling to?" and take the conversation from there (even if her destination leaves little material to talk about, I can always talk about my destination, which is my job)

Any help/tips would be really welcome! Just anything at all..I really feel I need some support, like I can think of you guys when I'm actually "out there", knowing that I will report and discuss the outcomes of my experiences here afterwards! So thanx in advance!

 

[Die Hard]

Well, the bus-situation took place today when I went home from work...

I entered the bus, there was one girl sitting in the front and two girls in the back, one of those was very nice, really a HB9! Actually, I've seen her on the bus before, last week. These were the only people on the whole bus... Work was hell today and I was feeling like a zombie when I left, so I really didn't have the attitude to sit down next to her..instead, I took a seat diagonal behind her. The other girl in the back of the bus was sitting right in front of me, on the same level as the HB9 but on the other side of the bus, so like this:


girl - empty seat SPACE empty seat - HB9

me - empty seat SPACE empty seat - empty seat

Right after I sat down, I laughed at myself because I thought of my post from yesterday, this was exactly the situation that I talked about there! (damnit guys, why didn't anyone respond to that yet? ). The first thing coming to my mind, was: "Well, there you have it! Normally you wouldn't even think about this situation but since you recently decided to get into DJ'ing, you can't just ignore this! Especially since this is exactly the situation that you've been thinking/writing about yesterday and all the more because this isn't just some girl but a freaking HB9!" So I seriously assesed the situation: Do I have the ballz to ignore the fact that the other girl is gonna see and hear everything that will happen from just a few feet distance? Damnit! If only she hadn't been there, the HB9 and me would've been ALL alone there!! So I tried to convince myself that it didn't matter and thought of an appropriate opening... While I was contemplating this stuff, I looked at the empty seat next to the HB9, like "There it is!! the spot that you have to sit down at!" It wasn't until this moment that I realized her medium-sized bag was on the empty seat next to her. Ugggghh!! So I bailed...this was just too much for my very first ****ing attempt since deciding to become a DJ. Even though she was freaking beautiful (which made me nervous) and the other girl would be able to see and hear everything from very closeby (which made me more nervous), I was willing to push myself into making the move. But this damn bag!!! I mean, if I was to make the move, I sure wasn't gonna ask if I could sit next to her! I'd just sit down and start talking, so she would have only one way to get rid of me: Literally ask me to stand up again (which is quite rude, so I'm sure she would've just put up with my conversation, even if she wasn't interested) But now I would have to ask her to remove the bag and let me sit, she would never agree to that... Only option was to pick it up myself without asking and sit down anyway..but that seemed a bit pushy to me.

Anyway, after a while she got out of the bus and that was that. I still feel positive about the event because I was really contemplating a move... Normally the very thought of making a move would never ever enter my mind! So it shows that my mindset is definitely different now, it's the first step to becoming a DJ, right? :yes:. And this was already the second time in a week that she was on the bus, so I guess I haven't seen the last of her...

 

[ElChoclo]

I thought you said that you had completely abandoned your AFC ways. Just remember, even if you have escaped from AFCism, normal rules of etiquette still apply.

You would think it strange if someone came and sat right next to you in an empty bus, wouldn't you?

 

[The Champ]

You are doing a good job Die Hard... Next time, don't worry about where her bag is. Pick it up and hand it to her and tell her "sorry, this bag was in my seat" and then open her.

That bag was your opener.

 

[Die Hard]

Hmm Champ, I think that's quite an agressive approach, a bit rude even but if you open her good it might as well work...it definitely makes you look self confident lol. But I didn't say her bag was medium sized for nothing, it was too big to keep on her lap. I would've had to pick it up and put it on the floor on my side of the seats... She wouldn't be able to see it anymore and I think that would make her uncomfortable (apart form the fact that it would be kinda rude).

I'm wondering about something else that crossed my mind at the situation. I know DJ'ing is mostly about having a conversation there and then but I considered this (realizing that this was the second time in a week that we were on the bus together): Suppose I'd said "Bye!" when she got up to leave the bus... She'd probably turn around surprised (since she doesn't know me) and then I'd say "maybe until next time!" with a big smile. It might've set me up for a possible next time when we're on the bus together. Or is this kind of thing just too cheesy to do? That's what I thought at the moment haha, so I didn't do it.

 

[jonwon]

Not sure if most men would be comfortable chatting a girl on a bus, unless he had some serious come on signals.

For starters there are too many variables that could go wrong.

I know a guy who has gotten dates from sitting on trains, but trains have semi enclosed carriages with chairs facing each other.

With a bus, there pritty much open, everyone can get in on the act.

It could prove pritty embarrasing if you get a rejection and most guys, even Alpha stud who isn't afraid of approaching and has zero approach anxiety would be hard pressed to open on a bus going to work - The potential for a guy in training could be rather bad, if for example he got one bad rejection, it could throw him back months. You cant scurry off and go next, whilst sat on a seat next to a chick. But no harm in opening conversation with a girl and seenig where it leads, for example if there is a prop you could open her with that, a silly advertisment for example. But actually getting up off your seat and sitting with a girl, not sure about that one.

Now on the other hand, if you was on the bus to hit a club or some bars and you have a mate with you, and two girls where sat behind you, fair game.

But on the way to work and back! Too many things that could happen, also if the girls are regular bus users, if they do blow you in, your going to have to suffer that constant reminder everyday.

I dont feel a bus is a comfortable environment. Some guys have reported to open girls in shops, or shopping centers or in magazine shops whilst browsing books. If your going to do it, that seems a better way.

 

[Jitterbug]

I've done trains and trams and got quite a few numbers. Got many turn-downs too, and the whole carriage witnessed, but my approach was graceful and the turn-down was likewise. I'm no Alpha Stud and in those situations, I was still fairly anxious (although I've overcome the crippling approach anxiety kind).

Never done that on buses before though as I rarely take them.

 

[Sinistar]

It's easy to be the critic here - basically you have a rationalization / justification (ie excuse) for everything and thus managed to dodge the possible REJECTION! I bet if you reread your post you'll see each one more clearly (another person could hear you, bag on the seat, not getting her alone). Here's the suckass part, what you're feeling now (crappy, loser, did nothing, spineless, etc) is actually FAR WORSE THAN REJECTION!

However, you are now aware. You know that excuses are just the shields used by the chump/beta warriors. They aren't even shields really, just distance - lots of distance - from any possible form of pain, hurt, damaged ego, etc. You now know that you will keep getting what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done. We know this. Now you know this. You are responsible for changing it - IF YOU REALLY WANT IT TO CHANGE?

You also know that there are many guys out there given your exact same situation who would have managed to get digits (unless she had a long crappy day just like you did). How would they have done it? Lots of different ways. You find yourself in the "I need a job but I don't have experience..." dilemma. The guys that would have cold approached, opened and number closed in this situation probably have done this several times, have killed off their fear of rejection long ago and know they'll go home feeling stupid had they not at least tried - that is a strong motivator.

To your situation, I think after she's been at work all day and riding a bus she'll be less responsive to openings than she would be at a club or bar or event - that much is obvious (and you know it too!). However, she'll still at least be courteous, hold some EC and hopefully smile which are a lot simpler to gauge and work with. For example, when you came on the bus did she make EC with you. Did you catch her looking at you then looking away when you looked? You know, signals. Or, did she spend the entire time looking away from you - if so she probably locked onto your building anxiety (yes, they can spot it no matter how subtle).

My advice for next time would be to work up to things. On the bus, give them all smiles. Make real EC with them. Start simple conversations with them (yes, with other near enough to hear it). Experiment a bit. Try making EC, smiling and simple dialog with a woman that you think may have sent signals your way. Was she responsive (even if you do not find her attractive, try it to get a feeling for the subtle cycle of events that take place). Then, purposely try it again on a few women to whom you receive no signals.

For your specific case, unless her body language was screaming "please God, I hope this man does not talk to me" you could try a quick bit of C&F and a very light Neg. In this case, as "The Champ" said, that bag was your opener. A few weeks back a pretty cool woman her at work was walking out with a big bag like that. I had never met her or talked to her. On the way I out I smiled really big and paused just a bit and then said "that bag is huge!" - you know in a funny, just-in-fun way. She smiled, walked a bit closer the rest of the way to the cars, spent some time trying to explain it, etc. I think she actually just enjoyed the humor and maybe the confidence that someone would poke a bit of fun at it.

With women always be thinking - keep things light & funny.

Here's something to think about - I'll use the job analogy again. There are people out there that for a host of reasons (fear of rejection and perceived social status being the major ones) use a very convenient approach to not having to compete - they operate under the misguided approach of "High Standards". They tell themselves, I don't even want to try unless I can get that awesome job. Anything less would be a waste of time. Anything less I would have to maybe worry what family and friends think. Anything less and it will take me forever to dig out of my current hole. Anything less and I will have to look for another job again and again until I get back to this awesome one. Logically, I know there is more than one "Great Job" but they seem to come up less often so I'll focus (sort of) on this one. Unfortunately, w/o a lot of experience these same people pretty much know they won't get it. So they either let it pass them by or only give it enough energy so as when rejected it doesn't hurt as much.

Sounds a lot like the AFC who's never had a date or been with a woman. If he can just get that HB9, everything will be better. He'll know that his methods (ie passively waiting) weren't a waste of his time. His buddies and families will think he's cool. He can skip dating all those other women that probably just wouldn't be as good. Other women will now look at him and wonder how he did it (sounds like a movie) instead of not making any contact at all.

I wonder, did you really just happen to have the HB9 on the bus experience or have you seen her on the bus at least one other time? I also wonder, why such a focus on her that day? There are women everywhere, clubs, hobbies, stores, etc. Also, what if the other gal on the bus is a HB7 next time, would you approach her? What if she was a HB8 - when is the other one good enough to drop your "High Standards" a bit and get some experience and confidence.

Or, is aiming only for only HB9's really just a convenient way of not having to really compete at all? Hopefully I am wrong, but I think it deserves honest answers - right?

 

[Die Hard]

Thanks for all the reactions!

Sinistar, it was pure coincidence that the girl on the bus was a HB9, and yes she was really on the bus last week too. As I said, my mindset is aimed at taking more risk and trying to make contact with women a lot more then I did before. The HB9 on the bus was just the first real situation since my decision to become a DJ that I could apply my new mindset to. Basically, I'd be contemplating a move on any girl that I consider good enough to fukk. I do realize that I'm making excuses (not alone, people can listen in, bag on the empty seat) but I don't think that's really a problem. I decided to become a DJ just a few days ago, don't you agree the bus situation is a pretty difficult situation to start off with in becoming a DJ? Trust me, I am really gonna push my new mindset through but this was a bit too much. Would you recommend all guys who wanna become DJ's to begin the development of their skills in these kind of situations? No... I'm actually really proud of myself that I was seriously considering to make the move, even though the situation was not an easy one and this girl was so beautiful I wouldn't even dare to approach her under easy circumstances! I don't feel offended, I understand why you make notion of the possibility that I'm picking just HB9's/HB10's so I could use that as an excuse to not make many approaches, but this is not the case. If I go out this weekend I'm definitely gonna make approaches in the club :yes:. This just happened to be the first situation since my new mindset where there was an opportunity.

However, I don't have much opportunity to apply my new mindset in daily life. I get up, go to work, come home, eat, sleep. Where can I practise?? Yeah, in the club on Saturday night, but I want to do more than that. And apart from going to the supermarket a few times a week, the travel to/from work is just the only situation that frequently provides me with opportunities in my daily life. So even if it's not the easiest situation, I wanna make the best of my opportunities and will focuss on this situation. You know, my new mindset is as follows: Whenever there are girls in my vicinity, I will consider it as an opportunity to learn, doesn't matter where I am or what I'm doing. This doesn't mean I neccesarily have to make an approach everytime there's a girl in my vicinity but at least I have to do my best to flirt, make EC, smile...just look for any opportunities to make contact in any way, even if it's just clearing my throat which makes her look at me for a second and nothing else happens after that haha! I'll be as much aware of each girl that comes in my vicinity as possible...and I'll be trying to make them as much aware of me as possible. For example: If two chicks were walking in front of me on the street, normally I'd look at their asses while thinking about what I'm gonna do at wherever I'm heading to. From now on, I'll be forgetting everything else and listen in on their conversation, so I might hear them say something that offers me a possibility to jump into their conversation. This is my first priority from now on: Awareness! I want it to become something automatic, an instinct. Now I have to remind myself constantly to focuss on my surroundings, but eventually it'll be second nature: whenever there are girls around me, I'll be aware of them and the possibility to interact with them. And I'll be analyzing each and every situation here like I did with the "HB9 on the bus" situation.

 

[Die Hard]

I'm gonna do updates here now and then, kinda like a diary.

Anyway, I didn't go out this weekend. I always go out with the same guy but he couldn't go. Too bad coz I was looking forward to my first club night since the decision to change myself from AFC to DJ. Ah well, it gave me time to read here a lot this weekend .

No more encounters at the bus last week, there were only ugly b*tches. I did flirt a lot with the girls at my work though! Been working at EC and kino with them lol. It worked well with most of them, except this one chick I like particularly. Kinda strange situation: She just had a difficult emotional situation during work which upset her a little. Very shortly after that situation, She happened to enter through a door while I was at the other side, also about to open it. So we kinda bumped into each other. She looked at me briefly and we said "hey" to each other. While saying that, I gave a short caressing rub over her arm/shoulder with the inside of my hand. She didn't respond at all, just walked on. That was kinda weird... She didn't look at me, didn't look at my hand, she just looked in front of her and walked on from the door without saying anything, just as if I hadn't touched her at all. Anyway..I KNOW that I was in an AFC mood when I did this. I was all too eager to comfort her, "be there" for her and this was reflected in the way I said "hey" and the way I touched her. It was absolutely not in a sexy way... Anyway, I've already noticed before that she's someone who doesn't easily show her weak side, the "I don't need anyone's help" type...so that might explain her reaction. At the same time, she's been giving me signs of interest over the last month but I largely handled them wrong (remember, I just got enlightened last week, I was still an AFC last month...). Looking back at the past month, I now see how she's been testing me, trying to force me to act like a man towards her. She's been giving me quite some signs of interest already but I responded in an AFC way mostly. So her reaction when I caressed her arm is probably a combination of her "I don't need anyone's help" attitude and her frustration with me always reacting to her in an AFC way. Anyway, I didn't see her for the rest of the day but when the day was over, I was sitting at a desk, writing some stuff and heard her make her way to the buidling exit. I was sitting with my back towards her, she had to walk past me. There was no one else nearby and it was quiet so it would be normal to turn my head around and look who's there, in response to the footsteps behind me. But I used the situation as a test. I already knew that I had made a mistake with the way I acted earlier, when she ignored my kino (it wasn't even kino, it was weak and pathetic) so I decided to act indifferently towards her now and se how she'd react. I already know she likes me, her signals over the last month have been quite clear..so I know that she was looking at me when she passed behing me and I know she was expecting/hoping for me to turn around and at least say goodbye. But I did nothing, just wrote my report and ignored her. Suddenly I heard her say "Bye! Have a nice night!" with the most enthusiastic tone of voice as possible. Heheh... So only then I turned around and wished her a goodnight as well, while she was leaving for the exit. So the game is still on with her, she hasn't given up on me yet... I just need to let my new attitude shine through fast because I've shown a lot of AFC behaviour until now that I have to make up for! By the way, she's the only one at my work who I'm considering to make a move on. As I said in another post, I can't make moves on the girls at my work since people at my job work closely together, sort of as a team. If things go wrong, it'd make work quite difficult. But still I want to make an exception with this chick. She has shown very clear signals of interest and she's very goodlooking.

There's this guy at my gym, we chat a bit now and then while working out, he's very goodlooking. Recently he came up to me to ask if I was almost finished using a certain machine that he wanted to use as well. I told him I was almost finished and he said he would wait then. We were both silent and while I was doing my final set, I looked at some girls walking the treadmills. He noticed me watching them and just said out of the blue: "I'd totally destroy them..." I looked at him and he had this grin on his face, he looked very confident and I could tell that he wasn't simply joking..just by the way he said it and the way he stood there, I could tell that this guy really believed in himself. I mean..I could say/think the same thing looking at those chicks but once they would be right in front of my nose, I wouldn't know what to say and be shy. This guy however, he's for real, I could just tell.. So why do I mention this stuff? Because I've been thinking about my social life and the way it affects things... I have one good friend, who I always go out with. He's also very goodlooking and always attracts girls when we're at the club. But besides him, I don't have many friends who come in handy with my new mission in life rockon. So I thought of the guy from the gym..we never say more than "hey, how are you, what excercise you doing?" but next time I'm gonna talk to him some more about chicks and see if he wants to go out together. I need to broaden my social circle anyway and I'm sure this guy will be have a positive influence on me.

That's it for today's update!

 

[Die Hard]

****KKKKK!!! Lol, I know I'm making excuses AGAIN but I had some bad luck again today. I was feeling a bit sick last night, sore throat and stuff and I didn't sleep too well. When I woke up, I felt like **** and noticed I had overslept: I had just 25 minutes to shower, shave, put clothes on, do my hair, have breakfast, prepare the meals I take with me to work and ride to the bus on my bike (which takes at least 5 minutes). On top of that, I had to ride through the pouring rain... Anyway, I made it! But I was SOAKED when I got to the bus, my hair was a mess because of all the rain and wind (messy hair can be cool but this was definitely the uncool version) and I rode my bike so fast that I felt like throwing up for 15 minutes after the ride. The bus was crowded but there was a spot at the last row (which is basically one long row of about 5 seats together, you know?) There were two guys sitting on it (losers) and a nice chick in the corner (HB7,5 but she looked like a real slut, had that appearance that makes you instantly want to **** her). The free spot was next to her... GAAAAHHHHHHHH, finally a nice 'bus situation' again but I look like **** and have to fight the feeling of throwing up! I didn't even want her to look at me, I felt totally unattractive. She already got off the bus after just a few minutes, I think it was the first stop..so that was that. I know I am making an excuse again and this sounds AFC but I swear to God I would've started a conversation with her if I looked/felt normal. Yeah, I know, I know, I know that some of you probably think to yourselves "Sure..and once you look/feel normal, you'll find some other reason why you can't start a conversation with her..." but you're wrong.

I tried to flirt with a girl at my work again (fixed my hair as soon as I got to work and felt comfortable again haha). At one point there was an interesting situation in our conversation that I would like some advice on, since it is a situation that tends to easily evoke AFC behaviour. The chick told me she was feeling like **** physically but that it had it's reasons. I already got some signals lately that her relationship had ended so I hinted at that and she told me I was right. Her 2.5 year relationship had ended a few eeeks ago, she said..and she told me she had lost a lot of weight in the past weeks coz she can't keep much food inside of her (lol, she basically meant that she throws up alot!) I tried to get her to expand on how it ended. First she said he just ended it out of the blue, through a text message (lol). So I said "Well, there had to be some trouble between you two leading up to his decision to break up?" She tried to talk around it but eventually she admitted to me that he had cheated on her and kinda dumped her. I said that's tough **** to handle and I could understand how she felt. I didn't do it in an AFC way, actually I said it in such a way that it seemed like I didn't really mean what I said (to be honest, I found it a bit funny when she told me what he had done. "Good for you!" I thought to myself about this guy! He got bored of her and went to get a taste of someone else and dumped her by a text message lol, I love this guy! Does whatever he wants, that's exactly what I wanna become!) And I couldn't shake these thoughts when I told her "I understand how you feel, this is tough sh*t to handle!"

Anyway, regardless from how I handled this conversation, what is the right way to handle these situations? I mean, when a girl tells you she's been dumped and she looks for your support, you can basically do two things:

1. Comfort her. Which is a typical AFC thing to do, right? You'll be nice to her, try to cheer her up, tell her she's better off without him or something. It'll make her feel like you're a friend, it's AFC-like and probably leads towards getting LJBF'd...
2. Act kinda indifferent. But what will that do? Will she respect your attitude because it shows you don't want to be just her friend? Or will she dislike you because you act insensitive?

I'm sure this is a situation many of you have been in, what's the best way to handle it? (and preferably TAKE ADVANTAGE of it? Heheh) I'm sure she's sort of an easy pick up right now, she's ****ed up psychologically, she's in pain, she feels sad and mistreated by this guy and she's probably dying for someone to "ease her pain" (which I wanna do by ****ing her! MUHAHAHA!) She even asked me if I go out a lot in this particular city where she goes out often (If I remember correctly, she had asked me this question last week too, so she knows already what the answer is, but it's possible that she forgot?) and she told me she was totally drunk when going out last Saturday ("like I almost couldn't walk anymore" she said..) Now these two remarks (her asking me if I go out a lot in this certain city and her telling me she was totally drunk going out last Saturday) were at different parts of our conversation, we talked about other things in between these two remarks. But it still makes me think she said those things with a purpose... Your thoughts, guys?


P.S. I love how my new attitude is influencing me!!!!! In the past, I would really actually feel sad for her being dumped, I would've been really sympathetic and try to comfort her and I would really feel this guy who dumped her was an *******! Now I can't help to think of him as an example lol!! And I don't feel bad for her or show comforting behaviour. This makes me realize that I'm really changing, I have been fukking reborn haha!! And I'm actively learning from my mistakes... I did make a stupid mistake today, coz at one point (after all the converstaion I just mentioned) I asked her how old she was. She said she was 21 and a few moments later returned the question to me. I'm 28, will be 29 in 2 months...which makes me feel insecure, since she's a lot younger. I totally tranferred this insecurity into my answer, she could easily read off my face and the tone of my voice that I felt sort of "inferior" to her because of my age. You know, after that, she acted less interested to me...and at the moment, I was convinced it was because she thought I was too old. In hindsight, I think she acted less interested because I showed weakness and insecurity. Good lesson: Next time a young chick asks me my age, I'll answer in a confident manner! I love these kind of small lessons that I pick up from analyzing my own behaviour!!

 

[Die Hard]

Well, I understand where you're coming from but I think you're exaggerating.

So someone you interact with on a regular basis goes through what sounds like an awful breakup, and all you can think about is how to spin it so you seem ****y and funny? I imagine people will disagree with me, but I'm of the belief that there is a time and a place for picking up women and using DJ tactics. Most times/places are applicable, but this is one situation where I think it's totally permissible to drop your front a little bit and show some compassion.

Of course that's all I think about! I'm going through a transitioning period, trying to condition my mind to see each and every contact with a woman as an opportunity to learn the art of seduction. Once I'm through with my transitioning period, I'll allow myself to choose whether I should or shouldn't consider an particular situation as a chance to apply DJ'ism..but right now I'll consider each and every situation as such. Of course there are exceptions..if this girl was talking in a real sad manner to me, of course I'd show some compassion. She wasn't..she talked about it in a rational way, didn't show much emotion. So I think she'll survive the fact that I didn't act too compassionate. Besides, I did sincerely listen to her, I did acknowledge I felt sorry for her, it's not like I reacted totally cold (I haven't literally quoted each and every sentence she and I said in the conversation, you know? When writing on sosuave, I'm obviously writing things in light of my transitioning process, not to prove to you or anyone else that I have enough moral sense).

So thanks for your thoughts, I know you mean it well and I appreciate them..but I know very well what I'm doing and am more than capable to make my own assessments in regard to the morality of my own behaviour .

 

[Veridin]

Suppose I'm already sitting and a HB enters the bus and sits down somewhere, do I just get up off my current seat and take a seat next to her and do my thing? I feel that's a bit too "desperate" or do you guys think it doesn't matter? So what about when they already sit and I enter the bus? If there are totally free seats (I mean a free pair of seats), isn't it kinda too direct when I pick a seat next to her instead of a totally free pair of seats? It's very obvious that I want to hit at her then... but maybe I just shouldn't care about that?

Yes, I can tell you, most girls would be put off by that because it is too obvious. Although some supermen will say that it works fine because all you need it so disregard any social conventions and the girls will fall at your feet.

I have picked up girls by the bus and train: two went nowhere, but the third I was with in a long-time relationship. One of them came up to me to ask about the train schedule, because she was new in town - always get to a train/bus station a few minutes early just for this kind of opportunity. It is one of the many ways you create opportunity, rather than just get home as quickly as possible. The two others, I started talking with. (Actually I have done that more times, but these are the times that lead somewhere.) Asking about the bus schedule, talking about the weather, saying this is the last time I wear this thin jacket this year, asking where they are going - just anything that seems appropriate to start with. But it can't sound forced.

That's the problem I see with picking up a girl's bag from the seat and sitting down there even though there are lots of empty seats. Sure, some here will automatically say that anything you do is all right, never wait for a more suitable opportunity, practically go up to her and ask if she wants to have sex with you right then and there. Right. Girls don't like creepy. They don't like pushy. The intelligent guy can tell the difference between game and pushy. If you are riding the same bus with a girl many times, you can afford to wait until the next day.

 

[Die Hard]

Hmm, the situation at work is evolving!

But first I wanna respond to you, Veridin. Thanks for your advice! You know, when you just sit down next to her without asking, you will probably cause her to raise a shield. Then again, if you immediately say the right things in the right way after sitting down, I think you can quickly break down that initial shield you made her raise, and stabilize the situation. But your game has to be pretty good in order to pull that off... And that's what makes "the bus situation" kind of a 'catch 22' for me: I wanna develop mys skills but the only situation in my daily life where I see chicks and can train myself, is ssituation that already requires some advanced skills... But I'm gonna make the best out of it anyhow! There will still be situations where the bus is so crowded that you have no other choice but to sit down next to a girl (or she next to you, if she's the one entering the bus later), there will still be situations where you and her are the only people sitting in the back and you could start a conversation without getting up from your seat because she's closeby anyway, there will still be situations where you just make eye contact with a chick and happen to get off at the same stop so you could approach her once you get off the bus etc.

About the situation at my work... I had a short interesting encounter with the only chick there who I wanna seriously pursue (the one who didn't respond to my kino last week but did come through later on when I ignored her as she left the building). I work with mentally handicapped people and at my job we have different buildings with different groups and I am assigned to a different group each time I work. Today I didn't work on her team but I did work in the same building which makes you run into each other one or two times during the day. And so we did... I was walking through the hallway while adressing some people from my group, she was standing there talking to someone from her group. She was turned away from me and I had to walk past her. I could've said hi as I walked past her but we were both sort of in the middle of attending our own people and we didn't have eye contact because she was turned away from me. So for me to say hi in that situation, would be "making an effort to have contact with her", she would have to momentarily shift her attention from the other person to me, she would have to turn around. It would be me asking for her attention... The AFC inside of me wanted to say something to her, wanted her to turn around, wanted to touch her as I walked past her...it could very well be the only moment I saw her today!! But I did no such thing . I just walked past her and stopped like 7 feet away from her, with my back towards her. Then I suddenly heard her say: "Hi Die Hard!" so I turned around and said hi back to her. We had a short moment of EC and both smiled. She had to walk on after the other person so she started walking but she kept her face and upper body turned towards me for a second as she started to walk. So I went on to say "How are you today?" and she briefly stopped and turned around again, saying "Fine and you?". I told her I was doing fine as well and we both went our way. It was a very brief encounter of only a few seconds and a few words but there was A LOT going on in terms of body language, tone of voice, the way welooked at each other etc. I'm sure if you'd see a video of us interacting at that moment, you'd say: "Those two clearly like each other..." Later that day, I had to go to the office space of her department, to ask someone there a question. It was kinda crowded there and she was sitting behind a computer. I walked past her and asked her colleague my question. Funny thing is, when I entered the room and walked past her towards the other person, she suddenly started humming. Haha... And I could just tell that it wasn't a coincidence. Imagine you're watching a porn movie and hear someone approaching. You quickly change the channel and intentionally start humming to try to make everything look normal. Well, her humming sounded a little like THAT sort of humming, I could just tell that it was intentional. So she definitely reacts to my presence And she couldn't restrain herself even though there were others in the room. I mean, they could just as well notice her peculiar humming when I entered the room but she did it in spite of that!

Actually, today has just been the final confirmation in a long string of signals I've been picking up from her over the last month. I know she digs me, I'm absolutely convinced that she won't reject me if I decide to make a move on her. Even so, I feel afraid goddamnit... I guess that has a lot to do with me not having my life on track. I'm living with my parents at the moment, I am looking for a place of my own and try hard to make ends meet, but the fact remains: I live with my parents right now. And I get real nervous about the idea that she might find out about this and how it will influence her view of me... I don't want her to think I'm a loser. But I guess this is just the AFC in me, I have to push forward, right? I'm sure I can get her to go out with me and so forth. I guess my fear is simply that she will eventually reject me because I don't have my life on track right now. So that means that I'm holding onto the idea of her and me having a LTR too much, just like I've always been doing with girls. I still have a long wayto go inthis regard, I guess... Whatever, i'm not gonna allow myself to screw this opportunity up. I've been screwing up a lot of opportunities in the past, just because I was afraid of girls getting to know me better and invading my personal space. Fear of becoming too dependant of what they think of me and therefor pushing them away. I'm not really afraid of them rejecting my invitation to a date or rejecting my request for their phone number. However, I'm afraid of letting them get too close to my feelings, my feelings of "being accepted", my feelings of self worth..and I think that's the true core of being an AFC. I gotta deal with this ****, I gotta man up, I gotta grow over it! So **** her!! I'm just going for her pusssy and if I can get that, my mission's accomplished. I don't need her to approve of me as a person, I don't need her to approve of my life.

But I can't deny that this stuff bothers me... Help please? Also, I can already notice how I'm getting that certain warm feeling inside when I realize that she likes me. Thinking of her smile makes me feel happier than it should, you know what I mean? By going in this direction, I'm degrading myself and putting her on some sort of pedestal... I gotta keep myself under control, I shouldn't allow myself to put more value onto this situation than it deserves. Been there done that, waaaaay too many times! It leads to longing for her affection, which is great foolishness. It has to do with my ****ed up childhood, never getting any love as a child..and projecting the emptiness that left inside of me onto girls. I know perfectly well how my mind works, it's just difficult to prevent this stuff from happening since it's sort of an unconscious process. I guess I'll just make this my new mantra: Focuss on the pusssy, focuss on the pusssy, focuss on the pusssy!

 

[DJNiceGuy]

Guys, I agree that it is very very very nervewracking to approach a girl on a train or bus especially with others nearby. What I've seen from my own experience is that it is hard to plan out a fun, flirty casual conversation like the one you see in romantic comedies. What I opt to do is go for a direct opener stating my intent- "hi there, honestly you're so cute, I just couldn't continue my day without coming and talking to you". If you really do think she's cute, it comes out really geniuine, and has a shot of working. That's been my experience, because it is so hard sometimes to have a randomly fun conversation.

 

[Die Hard]

Worked with the HB at my job again today. Lots of positieve contact, I did quite some kino on her and she accepted. She was in a bad mood today, though: very tired and having difficulty to focus on her job. So she wasn't really in a happy, flirty mood, more like barely able to function lol. I know the habit to please instead of tease, is a very strong automatic response of mine so lately I've been trying to focus on changing that the other way around. I intended to keep a good eye on my own behaviour towards her today, tried to look for opportunities to tease her, instead of pleasing her. But since she was kinda grumpy today, I thought it wouldn't be right, she wouldn't be able to "handle" it. I did find a good opportunity near the end of the day and decided to go for it lol. She told me she couldn't sing and I replied in a joking manner: "But you study pedagogy/pediatrics, you have to be able to sing!" Her: "Oh, why's that?" Me: "Well, you have to work with children so you should be able to sing songs to/with them" Her: "Oh, so just coz I can't sing, I'm not able to work with children?" Me: "Indeed, someone who studies pedagogy/pediatrics but can't sing = FAIL" Her: "Oh well, then that's just too bad for me..." I've read that you should talk on after making a neg but I totally forgot and didn't say anything else after that, so it kinda turned silent and we both went on doing something else. Didn't feel quite right haha, but still it's good that I sort of criticised her (although in a joking manner) because I've been doing too much pleasing towards her anyway. I could sense her not liking the fact that I said something negative about her, it kinda dissapointed her since she's used to me being mostly positive and complimenting towards her. This action definitely compensated for another moment when I couldn't control my AFC-ness: There were a few agressive incidents with patients today and I went into those situations like a man, taking initiative and charge of the situation, forcing the women to stand aside and let me handle it. Some while later she commented very enthusiastic to me: "I'm so glad we have such a strong man here to protect us and makes me feel safe!" smiling and softly grabbing my arm. That really brought out the AFC in me, I just couldn't control it... I became all soft and shy, my whole face lit up, having the biggest smile on my face while looking away from her as a kid who just got onto Santa's lap and doesn't dare to look at him. Another female colleague who was with us in the room, went silent when she saw my reaction, she was sort of stunned by the visible impact the compliment had made on me. Bwegh, I was acting like a little kid instead of a man! Hopefully the neg I did later today, kinda compensated for this.... Or maybe I'm just troubled over nothing...she might as well think it's really cute that a guy who was so fearless and masculine in a violent situation earlier, was suddenly so shy and sweet when she showed him her appreciation

All in all, the attraction between her and me is going very well. We get a lot into each other's personal space while interacting, we do that 'study each other's face while talking' thing all the time and I've noticed she always reacts very happy when she first sees me (most of the time, she doesn't know beforehand when I'll be working at her team. Each time I'm there and she first sees me, she looks like a kid opening a present and makes eye contact for much longer than neccesary when greeting me). I'm getting kinda worried that she thinks it's taking too long for me to make a move, though... We've come at this point: I know she likes me and she knows that I know this... She knows I like her and I know she knows this. Sort of when you're about to kiss someone: At one point your heads are simply so close that you both know the other person wants to kiss. If you don't push it through at that point, it's like you're rejecting the other person. I think our situation is reaching a similar point: If I don't ask her out at this point, she might start to think that I'm rejecting her... I can feel it myself: All the looking at each other from up close when we talk is getting boring, it's almost even no fun anymore. I guess taking the kino a step further is a logical step but I get the idea that would still feel to her like unneccesarily postponing things.

I won't see her until next Tuesday so I guess that should be a perfect moment to make a move. If I made the move now, I really think she might feel like "Yawn..you finally ready?" but with a week of not seeing me, her desire will have risen again so that I can "strike the iron while it's hot".

 

[Die Hard]

Note to self: Stop thinking, stop analyzing! Be a man, do what you have to do and shut the f uck up!!!!

 

[Die Hard]

Just so I can look back at it later, I have to write this down:

Damn, it's hard. Haven't seen the HB's at work for a while, I was sick when I was supposed to work at their department last week. But today I was in the same building and saw HB8 walk by. Just a glimpse, really just one second, but she saw me too and we said hi.

Now look what's happening to me... I'm getting soft here... I'm thinking of her fo the last 15 minutes and not in a sexual way. No, I'm thinking of her in a "sweet, loving, caring" way. The AFC inside of me doesn't like to be suppressed and rears his ugly head... I just caught myself daydreaming about her, imagining she'd sorta hug me and put her head on my chest and look at me really sweet and kinda whisper sweet things to me. That stuff makes me weak and warm inside, I long for it! I want to hold her! Ugh... I know this is very wrong and I'll have to fight these thoughts and feelings off... I just need to express what I'm experiencing now so I can read it back later on, as the whole situation with her and the other HB at work develops. This post will be a reminder to myself: always be on your guard for this kind of fallback, this tendency to let the AFC inside of you come out again. It's ugly head must be cut off!

I must add: It's difficult to cure from AFC'ness... The need for love in me is great, I never got much as a child nor did I get much from women when I grew up. I have this emptiness inside, a gap that needs to be filled with warmth and love. It tries to influence my actions, it makes me want to fall in love...but I have to fight that tendency! And you know what's ironic? That I can easily control these feelings with my BPD ex but not with some chick I barely know. I've learned by trial and error that allowing myself any emotion for BPD, leads to big trouble, so it's easy to stay emotionless towards her and just wanting to screw her. But with some girl I don't know that well, I don't really have a direct motive to stop myself from the tendency to develop romantic feelings for her. And that's the trap, but I realize it's there and will not fall for it. Just for now, I might have a need for romance, love and sweetness...but I'll replace it with a need for sex straight away, I'll be a man and listen to my d*ck!

AFC no more! AFC no more!!

 

[Die Hard]

Went to the mall today, had to get some clothes. I flirted with the girl who was helping me. She was an easy victim: after giving her some attention she was really doing her best to get more. But she was a 6 at best so I pulled back lol.

The situation with BPD ex has evolved a bit. As I've said before, I don't think I have the skills to lure her into my trap (to f*ck her once without really getting "involved" with her). But the ridiculous way some people reacted in the thread about her, made me realize that perhaps I'm overestimating the potential help I can get from this forum and underestimating my own seduction skills. I might as well give it a try and see how far I can get on my own, it will be a good measure of where my game is at. So I did contact her and she started to play her game on me right away (damn, I think it's written in her dna!). I countered her "attack" and initiated an "attack" of my own. She's now trying to make me seize my attack by acting like she's weak and defenseless, planning to hit me back even harder when I seize my attack... Makes me think of Megatron versus Optimus Prime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IkAOt4h-w0. So I'm now just ignoring her until she gives in to my attack. If she doesn't, then the game simply ends here.

Oh, almost forgot . When I went shopping, I walked past the store where the chick who I contacted on internet works. I saw her standing in the back of the store, she was facing my way but I don't know if she saw/recognized me. Anyway, I instantly began to chuckle when the moment was over, I love the fact that I did that! In my old days, I'd feel a bit frustrated and might've thought to myself: "There she is, isn't she pretty? I know she liked me, it was obvious that first day we met... Why did I f*ck this up? blah blah blah" Now I just had to chuckle because I thought the whole thing was fun! Definitely proof that my attitude has changed lately!

 

[Die Hard]

Great tip, theunflushables! Thanks!