Hi all. I am currently in a long term relationship with a single mom, and it has become toxic. She moved across the country to be with me, but has been showing fading interest the past few months especially. She has a number of red flags like daddy issues, being friends with sluts and even a stripper in the past, being abused as a kid, etc. which is out of her control to some extent. We were on again off again for around 2 years before she moved, with me ending it each time. It has gotten to the point where she logged into all of my devices and saw notes trying to decode some of her communication. While actions haven't lined up, she has recognized a soft spot of me thinking she's into poly relationships, group sexual encounters, cuckoldry, and she communicates very subtly these narratives to eat away at me and sow doubt. I have mostly stayed unaffected, but at times been reactive in terms of punishment and throwing indirects back at her. Other recent indirects have been on me being lazy, boring, etc. as I decided to pivot to medical school admissions full-time rather than my prior tech career. Her friend even was throwing negative indirects at me the one time we all met up. She has supported the move and talks about the future frequently together. However some of the notes she read involved me listing things such as 'build a social net before it's done' and 'this relationship is dragging you down' and some unrelated worries that I had that I wanted to discuss with my medical providers. Our most recent interaction ended with her saying, after she saw these devices and cried, if you don't want to be with me then don't be a coward and string me along. I'm a single mom, etc. I said we can talk about it another time, then she followed with we can talk about it later this week and then left. I don't plan to talk until she reaches out to me. I'm wondering if this is her testing me. She is on her period and lately I've been pulling back as I focus in on medical school and my goals. This doesn't suit her needs as well as she eventually wants me to step into that co-parenting dynamic. I've also been clear on not wanting to move fast and move in together, wanting a consistent dynamic of respect, etc. She even keeps on bringing up how she deserved a promise ring long ago. Let me know your thoughts and how the dynamic can be changed.
"The Kiss of Death Mistake"
You replay the conversation at 2 a.m. She texted back fast yesterday. Today, nothing. Was that smile friendly or flirty? What did the shoulder touch mean?
Every hour you spend decoding her signals drains your confidence and hands her the controls. Women can sense that insecurity from across the room — and it repels them.
One of the "22 Rules" kills the obsession on the spot: assume she likes you, and act accordingly. Sounds too simple. Works anyway.
Her interest tends to rise to meet your expectations. Psychologists call it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Advice Needed
- Thread starter lp12468
- Start date
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.
Divorced w 3
Master Don Juan
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First of all, you're just as toxic, playing the same circular game she is. I get this impression though that you really love this woman. Why do you love her? Does she have any redeeming qualities? Why would you let this woman move her kid across the country for you? I'm guessing she can't be all that bad, since you're years into this?
You also seem to know a lot about this woman's past, and that you're throwing shade at her for it. She has a sexual side for sure. Why don't you meet her in the middle and have her arrange a threesome with a female friend? If the relationship is on the outs, at least get the story. Big question becomes why she's going through your phone and devices. That's a sign that she has a high anxiety about whatever you're doing and not telling her about. It's also a red line, but I don't think you're going to do anything to enforce that red line.
So ultimately - if you're not going to leave her, how are you going to let all these concerns of yours go?
You also seem to know a lot about this woman's past, and that you're throwing shade at her for it. She has a sexual side for sure. Why don't you meet her in the middle and have her arrange a threesome with a female friend? If the relationship is on the outs, at least get the story. Big question becomes why she's going through your phone and devices. That's a sign that she has a high anxiety about whatever you're doing and not telling her about. It's also a red line, but I don't think you're going to do anything to enforce that red line.
So ultimately - if you're not going to leave her, how are you going to let all these concerns of yours go?
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BackInTheGame78
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In the latest episode of D4T ("Desperate Dudes Do Desperate Things")...
Divorced w 3
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Stories this lopsided almost always have more than is originally disclosed.
BackInTheGame78
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They all start with a man that has no other options, which is the bigger problem.
Scarcity means you try to do anything to hold onto the one option you have instead of actively getting rid of ones that don't fit what you want because you have too many.
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
I do have a lot of love for her. We originally met at work remotely and supported eachother on a project then built a bond from there. I love her because despite the red flags she is a giver, loving and kind. Generally she is also good with kids, ambitious but also feminine. She doesn't subscribe to feminism and wants traditional gender roles and a relationship/family long term. She is also very hard working and cares about her family as a first generation immigrant from Mexico.
I will bring that up and see how it goes. I have floated the poly thing and she said no I just want to be in a relationship with you. But in doing it it wasn't with that angle, more directed at her and her indirects about it.
Well she is paranoid about it because in the past she did see me on dating apps. She even created fake accounts to track me. Although I made it clear that I never physically cheated. Part of this was reactive as she kept on throwing me indirects on sexual fantasies involving her and other people. But it was probably all just a test.
I will bring that up and see how it goes. I have floated the poly thing and she said no I just want to be in a relationship with you. But in doing it it wasn't with that angle, more directed at her and her indirects about it.
Well she is paranoid about it because in the past she did see me on dating apps. She even created fake accounts to track me. Although I made it clear that I never physically cheated. Part of this was reactive as she kept on throwing me indirects on sexual fantasies involving her and other people. But it was probably all just a test.
Final thing I would say is that she understands me having grown up with a mom and sister that have bipolar. She also supports me in my long term goals of medicine. She has been with me through some of my hardest times in terms of mental health, career, etc. and always supported me.
Divorced w 3
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I have bipolar too. I think that answers a lot of your questions. We tend to get super anxious and worked up. Sit with that and do some real searching. Sounds like she's not all that bad. My girlfriend has a past - shocking, given I met her at 33 right? - but she is so above and beyond in love with me, she put up with a ton of my crap. I'm not saying she's right - but take a big step back and see how many fires you have set here yourself. Stay calm - always lean toward keeping cool.
Doctor Europeo
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Look at all of these. This is a f0cking mess and you should have ended the relationship a long time ago, long before she moved across the country for you.
You should have never never gave her exclusivity in the 1st place. This woman was never LTR material, she was clearly just recreational use only at best, Smash & Dash, Pump & Ghost.
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Gamisch
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Leave. And yiu know that as well cmon bruh..
But okay..threads like these are always made by man who'll say " can you PLEASE give me ANY other option than to leave??".
There is no magic sentence or song that will reverse the situation. I've been there countless of times. Tried all the trick in the book. All those women disappeared forever. So I've learned to ALWAYS keep my suitcase packed when I deal with a woman. Some day will be the day we'll go our separate ways.
You oughtta disappear like batman, learn from the experience( study!!!) and come back better and date better women .
I know you won't leave so this post is pointless
But okay..threads like these are always made by man who'll say " can you PLEASE give me ANY other option than to leave??".
There is no magic sentence or song that will reverse the situation. I've been there countless of times. Tried all the trick in the book. All those women disappeared forever. So I've learned to ALWAYS keep my suitcase packed when I deal with a woman. Some day will be the day we'll go our separate ways.
You oughtta disappear like batman, learn from the experience( study!!!) and come back better and date better women .
I know you won't leave so this post is pointless
"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."
Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.
Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?
You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.
Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.
Clockwerk50
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You need to take a step back and logically look at your situation. The more you rush and act in haste, the more mistakes you will make.
With that out of the way, you ****ed up. Not because of your promises, hesitation, or reluctance to move in together, but because of your incongruency. She went digging into your personal information because your actions are not identical to your words. Clearly, there is a reason why she moved in with you, and I am assuming this involves both of you and a future together, but obviously, you have one foot out the door, and this got her spider senses tingling.
You were caught once using dating apps, and now she has found notes about preparing for the relationship to end. She obviously has legitimate reasons to question your commitment. I have already said my piece about how "monkey branching" should be women's behaviour.
Now, what should you do? No one here can answer that, but you need to define your actual objective before choosing a course of action. All choices have pros and cons. As an example, if you decide to stay with her, you have to rebuild trust, which will most likely demand that you forgo your independence and commit to the relationship on her terms. There also seems to be an issue with boundaries, which I am assuming you have none.
Regardless, whether you decide to stay with her, end it, or renegotiate a new relationship, you will not get very far trying to regain control or steer the boat in the right direction through indirect punishment. In other words, you have to man up and take responsibility for your decisions, be honest with yourself about what you want, and commit to such choices.
PS: If you decide to end it and return to dating, read the article below. It discusses relegating a woman to a lower relationship rank following an offense and argues that she cannot regain her former rank. Given your history of breaking up and taking her back, this would have saved you time and issues that you are dealing with right now.
HumanSockPuppet’s Guide to Managing Your Bitches : TheRedPill
With that out of the way, you ****ed up. Not because of your promises, hesitation, or reluctance to move in together, but because of your incongruency. She went digging into your personal information because your actions are not identical to your words. Clearly, there is a reason why she moved in with you, and I am assuming this involves both of you and a future together, but obviously, you have one foot out the door, and this got her spider senses tingling.
You were caught once using dating apps, and now she has found notes about preparing for the relationship to end. She obviously has legitimate reasons to question your commitment. I have already said my piece about how "monkey branching" should be women's behaviour.
Now, what should you do? No one here can answer that, but you need to define your actual objective before choosing a course of action. All choices have pros and cons. As an example, if you decide to stay with her, you have to rebuild trust, which will most likely demand that you forgo your independence and commit to the relationship on her terms. There also seems to be an issue with boundaries, which I am assuming you have none.
Regardless, whether you decide to stay with her, end it, or renegotiate a new relationship, you will not get very far trying to regain control or steer the boat in the right direction through indirect punishment. In other words, you have to man up and take responsibility for your decisions, be honest with yourself about what you want, and commit to such choices.
PS: If you decide to end it and return to dating, read the article below. It discusses relegating a woman to a lower relationship rank following an offense and argues that she cannot regain her former rank. Given your history of breaking up and taking her back, this would have saved you time and issues that you are dealing with right now.
HumanSockPuppet’s Guide to Managing Your Bitches : TheRedPill
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