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A woman fighting her emotional and logical sides

gettinit

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One of my girls who I have known for a bit, but not pursued since relationship gaps have never aligned. I kind of put her in the friendzone. Even with that, she has always flirted with me and we do go out together, have beers, play pool. Its occasional dating without the sex and she picks up the check much more often than me. I only do this when I have nothing else to do. There have been a number of times where we were mistaken for a couple (actually asked once when the wedding was). Honestly, I have a great time with her and its fun hanging with a woman that you enjoy without having an end game. She knows what I am about, women wise and we don't discuss current relationships. One of the only things that I require is that people in my circle be straight with me (no BS at all) and the other night, she said a few things that I felt weren't right. I called her on it (not important to the story). Long story short, we had words and I told her that we shouldn't hang together anymore. She ended up leaning on my shoulder with tears streaming. She went to leave, asked for a hug. I refused.

She sent a text late that night saying "This is silly, lets not fight" She sent a few others over the next two days that I ignored. She sent one saying that she wanted to talk. I was heading out and passing by her place so I agreed. Got to her place around 8:30 and she asked if I wanted a beer or wine. She knows good wine, so I chose that. Out came what I know was a $100+ bottle, I'm sure the best that she had. We settled in on her couch, lights dim. Any other girl, I would have been saying: game on. Over the time that it took to kill half the bottle, she quizzed me on my current dating situation and although I didn't bring it up, started filling me in on on hers. Her current guy had staked out her house and confronted her about cheating when she came home ( I happened to know where she was, so false). I changed the subject. So the disagreement came up and it was just a one drink too many misunderstanding. Before anyone goes off. I didn't buy into BS and again is irrelevant except for the fact that I'm sure that she knows that i won't put up with BS. I told her that she should tone down the flirting a bit and she replied that it was me that starts it (complete denial of accountability). The conversation turned here and there to how well we get along, how she feels a connection with me and I could see attraction in her eyes. Some of you are probably going to be floored, but I shut it down saying that I was hungry and wanted to go. First off, I didn't know if a jealous boyfriend was going to be tracking me down or confronting me in her parking lot at 2am and second, I wasn't about to provide her with ultimate validation by making a move on her, that may have been rebuffed. On top of all that, I don't want to complicate things. Its just a fun time and I have access to sex with others.

She said that she was hungry as well and asked if she could come along. I agreed. Her flirtatious behavior was off the charts. Playing with her hair, giving me cute looks, lots of touching. As usual we continued this for a few hours. I said that I needed to go, walked her to her car and gave her a hug. When she finally let go, it was a reluctant, fingers sliding down my arm to my finger tips, contact to the last second thing.

What I believe that I have here is a woman who wants her cake and eat it too.

It seems that her logical side is telling her to stay with a supplicating, safe, beta provider, while emotionally, it seems that she provides all indications that she receives emotional and social stimulation from me and doesn't want to lose me. She flirts hard and I flirt less. I'm not afraid to disagree, hold my ground, am firm, yet fair with her and not afraid to tell her like it is. I also have no issue with walking away. Frankly, its the oddest "relationship" that I have ever had. The fact that I'm posting about it is enough evidence of that. This is not your typical beta, orbiter relationship.. or am I kidding myself? I really don't have any skin in the game here, but am curious if I am reading this right.
 

Black Widow Void

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Although this relationship may seem a bit 'unconventional' ... if it overall fits, that's all that should matter. It sounds like you're being true to yourself and to her.

I'll offer one word of caution though.
Psychology can be a weird thing and don't be surprised if this occurs (you're probably thinking it will not, but ...anyway).
The moment she finds someone and the attention toward you is withdrawn, you may find yourself wanting her.

Lots of members here try to frame this as a way women behave, but I disagree, I think it's human behavior. Whether conscious or in our subconscious, we become accustomed to a certain environment and when that environment is 'threatened' we will 'fight' to get it back.
 

Alvafe

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problem I can see is are you sure you will not cave?

with brings the whole don't want BS in life the moment you spend too much 1vs1 time with a girl with like you said will not happen anything, it will add BS to your life

I tend to not have time for this kind of thing, so if I have another girl in line that would mean I would cut contact, and I sure as hell do that often, since I don't like to spend time on msgs
 

logicallefty

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What I believe that I have here is a woman who wants her cake and eat it too.

It seems that her logical side is telling her to stay with a supplicating, safe, beta provider, while emotionally, it seems that she provides all indications that she receives emotional and social stimulation from me and doesn't want to lose me. She flirts hard and I flirt less. I'm not afraid to disagree, hold my ground, am firm, yet fair with her and not afraid to tell her like it is. I also have no issue with walking away. Frankly, its the oddest "relationship" that I have ever had. The fact that I'm posting about it is enough evidence of that. This is not your typical beta, orbiter relationship.. or am I kidding myself? I really don't have any skin in the game here, but am curious if I am reading this right.
I would bet some money that you have it EXACTLY right. I think women have the logical vs emotional struggle in their hamster brain heads a lot more often than blue pill guys think and even more often than us red pill guys think, at times.

Women, instinctively, are going to need three things from MEN: Resources, attention, and sex from the top value man who is in her reach. They will secure all three from the same man if they can. If not, they will secure a husband, BF, or even a good friend(s) for resources if they have to. Then they will keep orbiters for attention, a go bang the best Chad they can find for the day or to have a short term affair with. Its not often she can get all these needs met by a single man, and so, her logical and emotional brain are going to play tuga war as she enjoys resources from a BF or husband but can't help but want to go sleep with Chad. Or sleep with Chad and want to stop but not be able to. The orbiters for attention are like a crack. She needs her crack and its unlikely the BF/husband and Chad combined will give her this fix, so having orbiters is her only solution.

This struggle, for women, is very real.
 

gettinit

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@Black Widow Void
We have been doing this long enough that we have become accustomed to it and maybe the threat of change scares her. Through 2 guys, attention has never wavered, but I will have to be cautious. This kind of thing can sneak up on you. Thanks.

@logicallefty
As far as needs: Knowing that she is in a relationship, I don't give her much attention outside of hanging out, other than a few texts. I don't want to be in a triangle (although i guess that I actually am). As far as resources, (aside from that I'm handy) she pays more often than I do (doesn't need my money either) and as far as sex, none. That puts me at 0 for 3. I think that there is a fourth thing that they need: A secure, masculine presence and I think that I provide that. If she were to have sex with me, that would make two requirements, but would I give her the third, attention, if she does? She knows that if we were dating and she pulled any nonsense, I would kick her to the curb. Actually if I was in a full relationship, I would never put up with a "me" in the picture either. Maybe I'm just the scary roller coaster ride, that after enjoying it, you just get off of it and go home to safety, unscathed?

Another odd thing considering the situation. When I was at her place, she took the time to show me a fresh bottle of an expensive perfume that she knows is my favorite on her. "Look, I got the bigger one". Annnd.. she had some on.
 

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Kotaix

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This is so common that there are memes about it: The woman who is hung up on the guy that will NOT give her the emotional validation she so wants, and so she can't break away from him.

Women want a rock to hold onto that storms can't budge. You're being exactly that.

This is the exact opposite of a beta orbiter behavior. You are being absolutely alpha with her, she loves her place as the beta, and you have her eating from your hand. I'm sure that if you ever told her you love her, that would change instantly. It'd be an interesting experiement.

I have a female friend in more or less the same situation. We get along amazingly well, like the same music and can talk until the cows come home about anything, not just trivial pop culture sh!t. She's very pretty in the face and she always tells me when she's single again. She's also straight up told me she thinks I'm hot. Problem for me is... she's FAT, one of her thighs is about the same circumference as both of mine together and she' badly out of shape. So, while I really enjoy her as a person, I don't give her any kind of sexual validation; but I don't rebuke her advances either. She'll flirt with me and come to visit me a few states away by herself even if she has a boyfriend. If I said "move here so we can be together" I'm pretty sure she would on the spot.

You're living the absolute conundrum of women. If you let them take over the frame (validate them), they'll go off to find someone who won't. If you don't validate them, you'll get accosted until you do.

I think the reason she is so taken with you is precisely because you don't have an agenda with her. The best motives are always pure motives.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Its absolutely ridiculous to fathom female logic. Its more apparent to me that it is either on or not. Attention is currency. Dtf or next. Repeat. Always repeat.

Women lack logic. Its feels over facts. Red pill was banned on reddit because its not nice but it debunks the reality of the world. Real life. Dunno what solution you want to work on but if whatever you do works, kerp on.
 

gettinit

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Update:
For anyone who is just reading this thread, I friendzoned this girl long ago and am dating (read as f-ing) others. The first post in the thread will provide further context.

So, the girl invited me over for drinks again. I had nothing on the books, so I went over and took a few beers since I didn't want to get all banged up on wine on a weeknight. Just like my last visit, she lit up the gas fireplace and I sat on her couch, feet up. She has a floor level, leather chaise in front of the fireplace. After a while, I moved to it and kicked back as we alternated in picking songs to play, talked and joked. She moved from the couch to the floor next to me (3 feet) and then started complaining about how her current boyfriend is acting like a *****. She got about two sentences out when I said: "Can we talk about something else? Relationship talks are for your girlfriends and whoever you are dating. I'm actually enjoying the fact we could never get together. Its care free, without those complications."

After a pause, she says: "What do you mean, NEVER?"

Uh oh...

I replied: "Well, I guess that I shouldn't ever say never, but this is fun as is and I'm good with it.
20 minutes later, she gets me a fresh beer and snuggles up next to me on the chaise. I just smiled and continued talking.
Its fun having the friendzone shoe on the other foot for a change.
 

AttackFormation

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Its fun having the friendzone shoe on the other foot for a change.
I'm guessing when you were there though that you didn't simultaneously have her equivalent of her placeholder boyfriend. This pattern of complaining about her boyfriend when she's out of his earshot and snuggling up to you is a pattern I've experienced too, except that my case also literally went and laid on my body right in front of him and despite his protest.

To me this girl buddy or whatever of yours has shown she doesn't respect relationships. Not that you would get into one with her, just making a general note.
 

Robert28

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Rule #1 for any if the stuff mentioned in this thread to work. You MUST be Chad. Or at least be “Chad” to her.
 

LARaiders85

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You'd be surprised what a good woman can get. My cousin's married some really good guys all around, Renaissance men. So did my one quality ex.
 

gettinit

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@AttackFormation Actually I never met anyone that she has dated and I don't think that she gets it regarding relationship boundaries. Her attitude is basically: I have friends of both genders and if someone is too insecure to deal with it, its not my problem.
I would bet that her views would change if the situation was reversed.

I already told this girl that I don't need some guy popping up on me. I'm sure he would be blaming me for his weak frame. I think that I'm going to decline invitations from her, to her house at least, until the guy blows himself out.

As for your situation, I'm guessing that the guy wasn't too happy about that lay down. What happened?
 

AttackFormation

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@AttackFormation Actually I never met anyone that she has dated and I don't think that she gets it regarding relationship boundaries. Her attitude is basically: I have friends of both genders and if someone is too insecure to deal with it, its not my problem.
I would bet that her views would change if the situation was reversed.

I already told this girl that I don't need some guy popping up on me. I'm sure he would be blaming me for his weak frame. I think that I'm going to decline invitations from her, to her house at least, until the guy blows himself out.

As for your situation, I'm guessing that the guy wasn't too happy about that lay down. What happened?
Yeah no kidding lol, not even that she doesn't "get it", she just feels no boundaries. It's an absence of moral compulsion, not even in the moment which might happen to anyone, but in a calculated way. That's a Soviet Union red flag right there for more than sex.

Yeah, if you're in America and he has guns you don't wanna end up as one of those "cuck killed girlfriend and her lover, then himself" news reports.

Nothing happened in my situation, because he just accepts whatever she does. She has 2 kids with him now.
 

gettinit

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This just keeps getting weirder. Out last night playing pool with my girl buddy. A girl asked where she was earlier. She replied that she was on a date. Then added that the guy calls all the time and is boring. I ignored it. A short time later I'm talking with a girl and she says: You make such a cute couple. I replied: Thanks, but we aren't a couple. I didn't realize that girl buddy was just behind me and she says: "Well, I wouldn't have thown that out there". I turned to see an annoyed expression. So then we are playing pool and I sit next to her and she says "give me some room" I went and sat on the other side of the pool table. She lasted about 5 minutes and after her turn, came and sat tight against me. She also picked up the tab for the night. Maybe better would have been a better word than weirder. I now strongly recommend keeping a girl buddy around.
 
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