"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
A potential flaw I see in Pook's reasoning [merged]
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"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Absoultley Stunning !!
You Have To Get An Oscar For This Reply Pook .
Thank you very much for clarifying that saga , I read some of anti-dump's old posts today and it really cleared some invisible things especially this thing about goin for the number and The Date As Action Is Our Thing Since Women Are The Kings Of Communications ..... Im Now Refreshed and goin to ask out 30 girls a week if not more
, i 'll also return back to the gym and get immersed in my hobbies . I'll improve myself till death and 'll push my comfortable zone slightly not really hard so as to relieve pressure .
I just Have 2 things that are out of context to discuss here :
1- Why don't you try to erase the bible and replace it with The Focus On yourself Thing ...Girls 'll be the side-effects of What Your going to Be Along the Road .
You'll be Changing The Whole Idea of The way Sosuave Was Built on . It need some work and persistence Man though .
2- I have a fear now of reading anything that's related to self-improvment because thoughts like 2nd guessing and you ll be "dependent on" Continues To Flow Inside My head " so
what do u take on books like Art of War , 48 Laws of power , and Anthony Robbins Books , As i believe that i have this passion for self-improvment actually i 'm going to be a psychiatrist by the way pook r u a doctor ???
My regards,
You Have To Get An Oscar For This Reply Pook .
Thank you very much for clarifying that saga , I read some of anti-dump's old posts today and it really cleared some invisible things especially this thing about goin for the number and The Date As Action Is Our Thing Since Women Are The Kings Of Communications ..... Im Now Refreshed and goin to ask out 30 girls a week if not more
, i 'll also return back to the gym and get immersed in my hobbies . I'll improve myself till death and 'll push my comfortable zone slightly not really hard so as to relieve pressure . I just Have 2 things that are out of context to discuss here :
1- Why don't you try to erase the bible and replace it with The Focus On yourself Thing ...Girls 'll be the side-effects of What Your going to Be Along the Road .
You'll be Changing The Whole Idea of The way Sosuave Was Built on . It need some work and persistence Man though .
2- I have a fear now of reading anything that's related to self-improvment because thoughts like 2nd guessing and you ll be "dependent on" Continues To Flow Inside My head " so
what do u take on books like Art of War , 48 Laws of power , and Anthony Robbins Books , As i believe that i have this passion for self-improvment actually i 'm going to be a psychiatrist by the way pook r u a doctor ???
My regards,
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
The proof of the pudding is in the eating
This is an interesting discussion. In my experience, style as a true expression of my self -- has opened a lot of doors for me, in a social sense. So style need not be fluff. It can be an expression of something that goes way deeper. There did appear to be a hint of this in one of your paragraphs, Pook, if I read it correctly.
I'm still by no means the absolute embodiment of masculinity (like Vin Diesel in an action flick), but have still managed to become much better with women within the last couple of years despite having a much, much smaller dating pool to draw from due to age considerations, and divergence from the typical tastes of my age-group peers. And a lot of that has to do with what I've learned from material on this and similar sites, especially with regard to developing better habits. The person that once occupied my body had terrible "game."
And yes, when it does get to be like work. it is time to take a break, and just go out and be, damn the torpedoes. And the funny thing is that in those times when one isn't even trying, very often things happen. But I've yet to figure out how to intentionally not "try."
And I see a number of men with much sought after classy women who are not particularly masculine. But they have other artistic, personality, and/or intellectual traits that make them attractive.
So masculinity, though important, is not all. Some men have it easy in that respect, others don't. But that doen't mean the others should just forget about women. There are a lot of fine women who find Jeremy Irons more attractive than Vin Diesel.
It's true that ditching the PC stuff and freeing my "pig" nature has helped. I never did take crap from girlfriends, even in the bad old fake "PC" days, but then -- until just recently -- I've only had but one involvement with anyone who really turned me on enough for that to be an issue. Everything has to be placed in context.
My verdict is that this "DJ stuff" works. Developing oneself is, of course, the most important thing -- but replacing unproductive habits with productive ones is important, too. Even if you can't be perfect, be better, dig into life, and make the most of it you can. Props to anyone who works to improve their lot, however early or late in the game.
This is an interesting discussion. In my experience, style as a true expression of my self -- has opened a lot of doors for me, in a social sense. So style need not be fluff. It can be an expression of something that goes way deeper. There did appear to be a hint of this in one of your paragraphs, Pook, if I read it correctly.
I'm still by no means the absolute embodiment of masculinity (like Vin Diesel in an action flick), but have still managed to become much better with women within the last couple of years despite having a much, much smaller dating pool to draw from due to age considerations, and divergence from the typical tastes of my age-group peers. And a lot of that has to do with what I've learned from material on this and similar sites, especially with regard to developing better habits. The person that once occupied my body had terrible "game."
And yes, when it does get to be like work. it is time to take a break, and just go out and be, damn the torpedoes. And the funny thing is that in those times when one isn't even trying, very often things happen. But I've yet to figure out how to intentionally not "try."
And I see a number of men with much sought after classy women who are not particularly masculine. But they have other artistic, personality, and/or intellectual traits that make them attractive.
So masculinity, though important, is not all. Some men have it easy in that respect, others don't. But that doen't mean the others should just forget about women. There are a lot of fine women who find Jeremy Irons more attractive than Vin Diesel.
It's true that ditching the PC stuff and freeing my "pig" nature has helped. I never did take crap from girlfriends, even in the bad old fake "PC" days, but then -- until just recently -- I've only had but one involvement with anyone who really turned me on enough for that to be an issue. Everything has to be placed in context.
My verdict is that this "DJ stuff" works. Developing oneself is, of course, the most important thing -- but replacing unproductive habits with productive ones is important, too. Even if you can't be perfect, be better, dig into life, and make the most of it you can. Props to anyone who works to improve their lot, however early or late in the game.
To which I responded...
For further clarification, sometimes you need to go one way in order to go another.
Too slow. I remember once years ago I kept asking out a woman for two months, once a week, and along the way suffered from her various excuses. The time I did get a 'date' from her, more like just friends, I didn't make any moves on her. So, eventually I turned my approach to women around and went the fast route, asking women out I just met -- the "one encounter seduction" -- getting digits, asking them out, etc. Push. Push. Push.
Ultimately both were equally uneffective, but were helpful in that they were failures. It was experience. I needed to go one way before going the other.
Focus. If you had told my previous self to 'focus on myself', it'd have done me no good. I'd have kept on doing the "nothing" things I was doing. So, "focus on women" would be the medicine.
One needs to get out there and experiencing meeting women, focusing on all those tricks/methods whatever. Only then, after a matter of time, after those 'successes', to throw off all that and go natural, focusing on yourself. Even throwing away all the tricks/methods, you'd not be the same person, because over time through all those experiences you'd have changed as person, with every experience changing you bit by bit.
If you're ready for this latter stage, dive in.
I used to believe in appearing desireless, for women did seem to warm up to me, until I realized I was only sanitizing myself. They didn't want me, but by coming off as not wanting them, they felt somewhat safer.
As for being desireless, that's good for safety, and as I've learned safety is the least desirable; a life not lived in risks is a life not lived. The funnest things I've done were done when I threw caution to the wind, or better even, not even think, and just did it. Being desireless is good for learning to control yourself, but that fleeing from safety is something which must be eventually done.
I wouldn't say it's necessary. I've certainly never been around girls all the time. How much, then? It's for you to decide.
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
Desirelessness is bullsh1t
The term must have been mis-translated. To have no desire is to have no lust for life. One might as well be dead.
It appears to me that what is called desirelessness is more accurately stated as doing without letting obession with the end result detract from your enjoyment of the activity itself.
This is the sense I get from Pook's last couple of posts.
OK, time to go out and enjoy the dusk and the mulberries that are finally ripe and ready.
The term must have been mis-translated. To have no desire is to have no lust for life. One might as well be dead.
It appears to me that what is called desirelessness is more accurately stated as doing without letting obession with the end result detract from your enjoyment of the activity itself.
This is the sense I get from Pook's last couple of posts.
OK, time to go out and enjoy the dusk and the mulberries that are finally ripe and ready.
"She Wants a Man, Not a Boy"
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
rastlin2021
Don Juan
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Hi Pook, when I read ur posts, it reminds me of a good friend who taught me all the technques and mindset to be what i am today...
I only came across the forum a year ago...but I started out 4 years ago, makes lots of mistakes, fixed them and improve myself.
just something to share.
I realise, after learning from my friend and teaching a few others on these skills, that there are generally 2 ways a DJ will choose in the end, either you become a player or a good guy.
A player generally will try all ways usually lots of lying , to get the gals to bed and dump them.
A good guy will get the gal also, but he is honest, fun and he is a man who does not do anything the gal wants but what he wants.
He dress simply but still attracts lots of gals and choose who he wanna be with. He has his own values and principles which is never lie.
The difference is, it is easier for the good guy to drop the gal than the player cos he never lie to her.
I only came across the forum a year ago...but I started out 4 years ago, makes lots of mistakes, fixed them and improve myself.
just something to share.
I realise, after learning from my friend and teaching a few others on these skills, that there are generally 2 ways a DJ will choose in the end, either you become a player or a good guy.
A player generally will try all ways usually lots of lying , to get the gals to bed and dump them.
A good guy will get the gal also, but he is honest, fun and he is a man who does not do anything the gal wants but what he wants.
He dress simply but still attracts lots of gals and choose who he wanna be with. He has his own values and principles which is never lie.
The difference is, it is easier for the good guy to drop the gal than the player cos he never lie to her.
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as i was reading this, ive suddenly realized that a huge part of my life is dedicated to girls.
imagine there were no females in this world. Alpha males would try to dominate, but most of the stuff you care about will be gone. No seduction, no health improvement, no hygene.
Of course every respecatble guy should keep himself in shape and clean, but how many guys out there do it becuase they want to be attractive to GIRLS.
I know being a teenager out of HS is a big deal in this lust for sex, but i start realizing that sex is good, but having someone to just be with is better. I'll take a girl who can be my good friend over a ****buddy anyday.
imagine there were no females in this world. Alpha males would try to dominate, but most of the stuff you care about will be gone. No seduction, no health improvement, no hygene.
Of course every respecatble guy should keep himself in shape and clean, but how many guys out there do it becuase they want to be attractive to GIRLS.
I know being a teenager out of HS is a big deal in this lust for sex, but i start realizing that sex is good, but having someone to just be with is better. I'll take a girl who can be my good friend over a ****buddy anyday.
Hey there , How has life been treating you man ? how many plays and books have u wrote ?? i really hope that God and nature is giving you what u deserve pal .
Back to Subject , i've just returned from a summer trip with some things to clarify , first of all i now log on here either for fun seeing how far did the site changes from the old days or either to get back on track not by reading tips but by reading your motivational posts you know to get back to the right mind-set .
In this trip I've approached like 20 girls or more in three days , i think it has become a habit now since i beleive that i 've approached like more than 70 girls since coming to the site , i must say that i now enjoy the process i don't think i just go , heck i even approached girls in groups like 5-6 girls , the approach just came u know , didn't think what to do , what shall i say , i was focusing on fun and consistency , though i get great results ,some confusing things yet appeared on surface .
First: while i was having fun with these girls that i approached i felt the urge to get thier phone numbers so early . i was putting pressure on myself i believe and since i am not really experienced in the relationships department as most of my realtionships with girls either was applying knowledge here (seduction like eliciting values etc..) or relationships that didn't last longer either because i was bored or the girl dumped me . it is like i was afraid of success u know ,what to do next ??while i was with the girls although i had the confidence thing since i m cute and girls seek my eyes all the time and also after realizing Monad's nature ( not to get depressed because there are no girls but because i need to metamorph) as u said earlier in your post i got in this never ending circle of how to get this girl ? i should think" another girl ,ooh let's have fun"But hey pook this kinda difficult especially if the girl is showing good behaviour and interest i mean you gotta think of how to get her ? right ?? it's the girl's job but you gotta initiate right?? so how to beat this outside personality that you want knowledge as i used to come here to read tips (something that i really want to skip through now) to prevent any any future 2nd guessing, as i know that i ll be dehunamnizing women . i let myself 'fail 'and i enjoy' failure' as well as consider it as a 'leanring experience' but isn't really important to have some basis ??? (do i really have it and this is the fake loud voice of my outside personality)
Second: it's kinda hard here in this society of Egypt to be sexual with girls although they need it so bad and they seek it all the time as i am around girls alot of times and i 'overhear' them or they ask me about it But society is the Biggest Rock towards this as they are so afraid here of being called a ***** times ,let alone the fact that guys here are really desperate and are always looking for sex , it's so hard here for girls to wear short skirts especially at work since all da guys will be staring and so girls tend to avoid these kinda of guys ( i hope i am not focusing on how does the woman think here ) so in the end it has to be subtle but how not to confuse' subtle' with hiding your 'sexuality' ? your natural actions......that's the question here
Back to Subject , i've just returned from a summer trip with some things to clarify , first of all i now log on here either for fun seeing how far did the site changes from the old days or either to get back on track not by reading tips but by reading your motivational posts you know to get back to the right mind-set .
In this trip I've approached like 20 girls or more in three days , i think it has become a habit now since i beleive that i 've approached like more than 70 girls since coming to the site , i must say that i now enjoy the process i don't think i just go , heck i even approached girls in groups like 5-6 girls , the approach just came u know , didn't think what to do , what shall i say , i was focusing on fun and consistency
, though i get great results ,some confusing things yet appeared on surface .First: while i was having fun with these girls that i approached i felt the urge to get thier phone numbers so early . i was putting pressure on myself i believe and since i am not really experienced in the relationships department as most of my realtionships with girls either was applying knowledge here (seduction like eliciting values etc..) or relationships that didn't last longer either because i was bored or the girl dumped me . it is like i was afraid of success u know ,what to do next ??while i was with the girls although i had the confidence thing since i m cute and girls seek my eyes all the time and also after realizing Monad's nature ( not to get depressed because there are no girls but because i need to metamorph) as u said earlier in your post i got in this never ending circle of how to get this girl ? i should think" another girl ,ooh let's have fun"But hey pook this kinda difficult especially if the girl is showing good behaviour and interest i mean you gotta think of how to get her ? right ?? it's the girl's job but you gotta initiate right?? so how to beat this outside personality that you want knowledge as i used to come here to read tips (something that i really want to skip through now) to prevent any any future 2nd guessing, as i know that i ll be dehunamnizing women . i let myself 'fail 'and i enjoy' failure' as well as consider it as a 'leanring experience' but isn't really important to have some basis ??? (do i really have it and this is the fake loud voice of my outside personality)
Second: it's kinda hard here in this society of Egypt to be sexual with girls although they need it so bad and they seek it all the time as i am around girls alot of times and i 'overhear' them or they ask me about it But society is the Biggest Rock towards this as they are so afraid here of being called a ***** times ,let alone the fact that guys here are really desperate and are always looking for sex , it's so hard here for girls to wear short skirts especially at work since all da guys will be staring and so girls tend to avoid these kinda of guys ( i hope i am not focusing on how does the woman think here ) so in the end it has to be subtle but how not to confuse' subtle' with hiding your 'sexuality' ? your natural actions......that's the question here
Unbridled_1
Senior Don Juan
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- Feb 26, 2003
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- 399
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this is a classic thread
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.