A potential dead end - how did I handle it?

[Suicide]

'Lo gents. This is my first post here, but over the last few months I've been changing my ways into those of a DJ. I think it's beginning to take shape, but I'd appreciate opinions on how I handled the most recent situation.

I met this girl a few monthes ago and have seen her 8-9 times over the course of that time. When we first went out, I definately got the vibe that she was not an easy girl (which she later confirmed in conversation), so I backed off of any sexual advances as to not scare her off, but continued to hang out with her. As I had hoped, she had warmed up to me and in the last two weeks, I went for the kiss and turned it around. The last week I saw her three times (too much, I know. She left for a week today, so it all works out.) and progressed a bit on each night from making out, and time before last, a bit of foreplay.

Now, we hang out last night, and we're eating when she gives me the,"There's one more thing I need to talk to you about.". I was expecting this from the vibes she had been giving me up until then that night. She proceeds to tell me that she wants us to just go back to just friends and cut off anything physical. I agree for the moment and then get up and say we should go continue our evening (as if I had truely taken that friends line well - yeah right!). Later on, we return to her house and she ends up laying on me in the way you all know. I decide it's the right time to go in for the kill and state that, in the context of our conversation earlier, I already have more friends than I know what to do with. She tells me it won't work out, since we're looking for different things.

"So why do you just want to be friends?"

"Because it's always the same. Guys are just after one thing."

"And what makes you think it's all I'm after?"

"I'm not an easy girl for sex. What makes you different?"

"I continued to hang out with you when I had already determined that I wasn't going to lay you quickly."

"True... I also need to know I can make it on my own, without a relationship for once." I avoided this last part, since I knew anything I'd say against it would be blatantly AFC - I tried to make her focus on how much she enjoyed being with me instead.

This goes on for a bit until she cuts right to it.

"What if I told you I would date you but would never have sex with you?"

"You'd be lying."

"Ok, I say that becuase I don't want people expecting sex."

"Fair enough."

I ended that right there, I'm not agreeing to no sex.

As far as definition goes, we left it at having an undefined relationship. I gave her the ultimatum that I wanted something intimate or nothing at all, and she accepted it. The night ended with us sleeping there on her couch and little bit of kissing - we were both pretty tired anyway. I will obviously see her again.

That was a long first post. I did my best to be the alpha man and let her know I get what I want or I walk. I'm sure there are some details I forgot, so if anything stands out, yell at me. So what do you think guys?

 

[rgeere]

Hmmmm, serious conversation.

After she said this line:

"What if I told you I would date you but would never have sex with you?"

I would have responded with:

"What if I just fvcked you and never wanted a relationship with you?"

Assuming she would say:

"That's not fair" or "I'm not into that" or "I'm not that type of girl" or similar

Respond with:

"I think it's a two way street, do you want to have a balanced relationship or not?"

or with

"Then we will never be more than fvck-buddies"

 

[DiSt0rTi0n_07]

Im still quite the newbie to this site but i'd say you are doing aight. Work at it and you will have her putting out !

 

[Suicide]

Originally posted by rgeere
Hmmmm, serious conversation.

After she said this line:

"What if I told you I would date you but would never have sex with you?"

I would have responded with:

"What if I just fvcked you and never wanted a relationship with you?"

Assuming she would say:

"That's not fair" or "I'm not into that" or "I'm not that type of girl" or similar

Respond with:

"I think it's a two way street, do you want to have a balanced relationship or not?"

or with

"Then we will never be more than fvck-buddies"

The problem with those responses is that she's the type who would run away from that at warp speed.

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by Suicide
The problem with those responses is that she's the type who would run away from that at warp speed.

Ok, in that case let's recap here.

This girl doesn't want to have a fair relationship with you.

Is she doing this for religious purposes or believes in waiting until marriage?

If that is the case I would take a diffrent approach to her..

This is the conversation as it went:

Her: Let's just be friends
You: I already have more friends than I know what to do with.
Her: it won't work out, since we're looking for different things.
You: So why do you just want to be friends?"

The conversation switched:

Her: Let's just be friends
You: No thanks, I see you as an aquaintance.
Her: Why?
You: That's just the way it's going to be.
Her: That's not fair.
You: That's just the way it is.

She might try to convience you that you should still be friends her. This is good if she does because she is starting to supplicate, and you want her to supplicate because she will begin to be more open to earning your affection. If she starts to feel insecure she might actually start initiating make-out sessions with you and possibly even sex.



On the other hand she might just get upset and not talk to you. In that case you don't need her and should go looking for other girls.

 

[Suicide]

I'm seeing this from different angles now.

What do you mean by a fair relationship in this context?

Religion has nothing to do with it, she's not religious. She is one of those good girls, but not TOO good - she's admitted having sex with a few guys. She just say's she's not an easy lay - which is why I had such a difficult time throughout that conversation - I had no angle. She has some ex-boyfriend issues too, but I'm not sure how to fit them in here.

I gave her my ultimatum of intimacy or nothing, and she agreed when she had brought up just being friends in the first place... isn't that supplication on her part though?

Thanks for the help though, I appreciate it. Does that change it?

 

[KiInCollege]

If you are the best man she's ever met, you will one day have sex with her. Maybe you are not the best she's met...One question:

Is she a virgin?

If not, she may have been doing you a favor telling you she'd never sleep with you. That basically means don't spend anymore money on this girl and use your time for other women. Huge favor - send her a thank you note in this case.

If she is a virgin, she's testing you. You responded appropriately. Virgins take a lot of "time" to get into their pants, depending on your skill and their attitude about it. In my experience, "time" is measured in months.

 

[rgeere]

What do you mean by a fair relationship in this context?

It's not fair for her to demand that you give her friendship when she is not willing to give you sex. It's not a fair complement between the sexes.

Women need friendship
Men need sex

Get a man and woman to give that 50/50 and it's a fair and balanced relationship.


she's admitted having sex with a few guys. She just say's she's not an easy lay

That's fluff. Ignore that staement just like water comes off a ducks back. Girls always say things to appear to not seem sluttish when they want sex.


which is why I had such a difficult time throughout that conversation - I had no angle. She has some ex-boyfriend issues too, but I'm not sure how to fit them in here.

Ignore them, she has no right to burdon you with problems from other guys in her past.


I gave her my ultimatum of intimacy or nothing, and she agreed when she had brought up just being friends in the first place... isn't that supplication on her part though?

That's close, but only be a friend on your terms and treat her more like an aquaintance.

If she is good at the game herself she might try to take control and confuse being an aquaintance with friendship to try to throw you off, but if you stand firm you can get her around your finger.

 

[KiInCollege]

Based on your post just before mine, Suicide, you need to drop this girl.

Unless you have no other options with a different woman, don't waste your time with this girl. She gave you the hint. Bow out gracefully and with your dignity.

 

[Suicide]

I see what you're saying. So I've concluded that I have two options here, becuase I refuse to get stuck as the "guy she's dating". That will get me nowhere fast (right?).

I either break it off and hope she comes back to me, or I see her again and go for the sex, becuase I know she wants it.

There is one caveat. She is moving up to college shortly (40 mins away), and if I don't play my cards right with my one remaining shot before she does, I may never see her again.

So which option is it? Or something else altogether?

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by KiInCollege
Based on your post just before mine, Suicide, you need to drop this girl.

Unless you have no other options with a different woman, don't waste your time with this girl. She gave you the hint. Bow out gracefully and with your dignity.

No, he shouldn't give up on this girl. There are still some things he can do that can make her crack.

Instead of nexting her he should make her one of his last priorities and game her to a higher level.

Go date other girls for a while and make her want to come out to you in the process. You should try to get 2,3,4,5 girls pitted up like this and allow her to see how great you are in their presence.

 

[rgeere]

I see what you're saying. So I've concluded that I have two options here, becuase I refuse to get stuck as the "guy she's dating". That will get me nowhere fast (right?)

Agreeing to be a friend on her terms will get you nowhere fast. It's alright to be a friend to her and talk to her just on your terms.


I either break it off and hope she comes back to me, or I see her again and go for the sex, becuase I know she wants it.

You need to make her wonder a bit and maybe feel a little insecure about the relationship. When she starts to feel insecure about the way things are she may start supplicating with sex.


There is one caveat. She is moving up to college shortly (40 mins away), and if I don't play my cards right with my one remaining shot before she does, I may never see her again.

But you will see other girls....

 

[Suicide]

Originally posted by rgeere
You need to make her wonder a bit and maybe feel a little insecure about the relationship. When she starts to feel insecure about the way things are she may start supplicating with sex.

I see what you're saying. So how do I go about that?

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by Suicide

Originally posted by rgeere
You need to make her wonder a bit and maybe feel a little insecure about the relationship. When she starts to feel insecure about the way things are she may start supplicating with sex.

I see what you're saying. So how do I go about that?

See, the thing is that if she wants to be friends with you she wants to have a relationship with you, but on her terms.

In order to grab control from her and get her to do things on your terms, you need to take the relationship down a notch from what she wants.

You take the relationship down a notch by insisting that you only see her as an aquaintance. If you do this in a lighthearted respectful manner than you may not upset her and she will try to convience you to treat her like a friend.

At this point she may start supplicating, feeling inferior, passive, and insecure.
This is not done out of meaness, these are female traits that allow a woman to give out sex.

If you do not crack and continuee reinforcing the concept that she is an aquaintance in your behaviour
eventually a sexual attraction will develope in her mind towards you.

Tease her, ****y/funny her, and game her just like any other girl you have seduced.

If you are doing your job right, she will draw herself out to you and actually start initiating kino and kissing.

Once you have got her to initiate kino and kissing your opportunity for sex is 95% percent complete.

The rest is obvious...


Basically in summary you need to make her EARN the type of relationship she wants from you by affixing a value to what she wants from you.

 

[Sardaukar]

You're young and may feel she's a bit more special. You are having one-itis. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work out between you and her.

She's immature, uncomfortable with sex and refuses intimacy.

You will find better women than her, women who will want to **** you with no games.

I like rgeere's original response. Dude, I've learned something today.

<Salute>

 

[Don Juanabbe]

She's sh*t-testing you bigtime. Back off a little, but not too much. Don't initiate any further physical contact either. She'll crack.

She's trying to gain the upper hand because she does indeed consider you as boyfriend material and she does consider having sex with you in that context.

She's playing games a little, but that's normal for younger girls.

 

[DJ_Dork]

rgeere's post is very good and true.

Seems like she's doing the friends first, lovers second route.

Continue doing what you're doing with her except acting romantic/kinoish. Even disappear for awhile if you feel the need to.

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by Sardaukar
You're young and may feel she's a bit more special. You are having one-itis. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work out between you and her. She's immature, uncomfortable with sex and refuses intimacy. You will find better women than her, women who will want to **** you with no games. I like rgeere's original response. Dude, I've learned something today.<Salute>

I agree, the best relationships are those in which you don't have to play games. But games are a part of life and part of life is learning how to deal with the games that people play.

If a girl sees any value in you and wants you around for some reason there is always an opporunity, a crack in the door, that you can pry open as long as she sees value in you.

A common misconception is that the friendzone is permenent.

It's not at the slightest permanent and can be changed once a guy starts playing his game right and getting the girl to supplicate. It's just a matter of dealing with the games that women like to play.

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by DJ_Dork
Continue doing what you're doing with her except acting romantic/kinoish. Even disappear for awhile if you feel the need to.

Exactly, you don't want to be the one initiating kino or romance, you want her to begin initiating these things. Once she starts initiating these things or gives you blatant opportunities you have her wrapped around your finger.

 

[Suicide]

You guys are great. I will stay around, but I'll avoid any intimacy unless she initiates it. When she comes back from her vacation, I'll see her and let you guys know how it goes.

Slowly becoming the Don..