A New Direction in Thinking

[kyphan]

First and foremost, if you have not read the post I made in the Tips section on Perspective then please do so, otherwise this post may be a little confusing.

Recently it seems like we always have at least a half-dozen open threads in this section of the forum dedicated to the negative side of women. There is nothing uplifting or positive in them, only a constant barrage against women. It does not seem like most of you have any interest in flipping the perspective on what you are saying and wording your ideas in a constructive manner.

Example - the current "Trust" thread. Instead of discussing whether or not trust should be blind and coming to an agreement that we should focus on the things that keep a woman interested (such as maintaining personal interests, being the man in the relationship, and standing our ground when need be), the thread turns into an analysis on how unfaithful and untrustworthy women can be. If you are posting those thoughts then that is probably your perspective on relationships. Why are you even bothering with women if your thoughts immediately lean towards ideas like "women will cheat if unhappy" or "marriage is risky because she'll take half of my stuff"?

Now do not get me wrong - those are one side of reality. I accept that. What we could discuss is that yes, people have to earn trust and show that they are trustworthy, and that part of our lifelong goal should any of us choose to get married is to continue to keep her very interested in us - so how do we do it? Ranting on extremely negative problems with women seems like it belongs in the High School forum. It shows a lack of desire to gain a positive perspective on things. I think we're all better than that.

 

[Latinoman]

Example - the current "Trust" thread. Instead of discussing whether or not trust should be blind and coming to an agreement that we should focus on the things that keep a woman interested (such as maintaining personal interests, being the man in the relationship, and standing our ground when need be), the thread turns into an analysis on how unfaithful and untrustworthy women can be. If you are posting those thoughts then that is probably your perspective on relationships. Why are you even bothering with women if your thoughts immediately lean towards ideas like "women will cheat if unhappy" or "marriage is risky because she'll take half of my stuff"?

Reasons are very simple:

We have a HUGE number of AFCs. We must take them out of the Matrix and show them the "nature" of things. That way they can identify the bad ones from the good ones (and there a few out there).

People are not here to talk about the beauty of women. We should know that ALREADY. People are here to get help and get out of the AFC persona.

A true DJ can see the good ones. Heck, we have some that are married (e.g. Rollo Tomassi) and others that are in LTR (e.g. myself) and others that have multiple partners (e.g. PR). Do you think that if everything were as bad that we would be either married, in a LTR, or with multiple women?

However, sadly enough...in today's society we have a LOT of manipulative women. And I would say that about 10% of them are "marriage material" by MY standard.

In Conclusion:

Understanding the VERY BAD things and the CONSEQUENCES of our bad decisions...will allow us to be extremely selective when it comes to choosing a woman for marriage or as the mother of our children. Plain and simple.

This is not Fantasy Island. This is real and the one that gets screwed up is the MAN.

 

[kyphan]

If that's the case, we should have kept warpy's thread opened and simply renamed it "How to do Everything Wrong - Including Choosing a Woman" and added it to the Bible. At least that thread was humorous.

Still, I disagree with you. If the men in those situations had chosen a woman better OR been a real man, chances are there would be less stories like that. You promote talking about how bad most women are, I promote telling people what they should do (by disagreeing with me that's exactly what you are advocating).

 

[Latinoman]

If that's the case, we should have kept warpy's thread opened and simply renamed it "How to do Everything Wrong - Including Choosing a Woman" and added it to the Bible. At least that thread was humorous.

Still, I disagree with you. If the men in those situations had chosen a woman better OR been a real man, chances are there would be less stories like that. You promote talking about how bad most women are, I promote telling people what they should do (by disagreeing with me that's exactly what you are advocating).

Well, I was married for over a decade and a half. I cheated years ago and did it for several years. I had my share of lovers from all colors and marital as well as social status. I am in a LTR. I have been with women 9 or so years younger than me...and with women in their 40s. Heck, I have been with women in their teens, 20s, 30s, and 40s. And god knows if any in her 50s was there.

Most and I mean...MOST... of those women were already seeing somebody or married (happily many of them) or with a fiance. Many were literally "nice" girls. My ex-wife was not seeing somebody and neither was my current LTR girlfriend.

I have made VERY LITTLE mistakes in the area of women since I turned 21. Many have been due to LUCK, plain and simple. Others have been blessings in disguise.

When I come here, I don't come to teach people how to "pick women". ANYONE can pick a woman. All that person has to do is LIE or give the wrong perception. Now...can that same person keep that woman interest for 3+ years? I know I can and have. And the reason is simple: true DJ skills (or masculinity).

What I do try and teach is how to become more masculine and how to become a better man in all facets of life (without getting into the "moralistic" aspects of life as morals tend to be something put forth by society). And for the same token I also learn! As I'm not yet in my 40s and need to prepare for that too.

The first step is to understand oneself. And identify the bads and goods in us. And take appropriate steps to improve on us.

The second step is to understand RISKS in certain relationships. That way, when a man gets into a certain relationship...he does that by understanding ALL the RISKS. How can you understand that? By understanding each element in our 'system' (or environment). Those elements are: ourselves, our potential partner, and our venues.

For instance, we talk about single mothers or about women much more older (e.g. over 35 and 5+ year older than us). However, some of us will date some of those women, but at least we would do it UNDERSTANDING the RISKS and CONSEQUENCES.

AFCs jump into this kind of relationships expecting the "she is different" mantra or the "happy ending". Well...there is RARELY a happy ending. And because of the way that Laws and Society is currently structure (thanks to a very strong feminine movement and women independence), typically the one losing and losing BIG is the man.

And why is that? Because men are becoming puzzyfied in today's society.

 

[lee36044]

Recently it seems like we always have at least a half-dozen open threads in this section of the forum dedicated to the negative side of women. There is nothing uplifting or positive in them, only a constant barrage against women. It does not seem like most of you have any interest in flipping the perspective on what you are saying and wording your ideas in a constructive manner.

Example - the current "Trust" thread. Instead of discussing whether or not trust should be blind and coming to an agreement that we should focus on the things that keep a woman interested (such as maintaining personal interests, being the man in the relationship, and standing our ground when need be), the thread turns into an analysis on how unfaithful and untrustworthy women can be. If you are posting those thoughts then that is probably your perspective on relationships. Why are you even bothering with women if your thoughts immediately lean towards ideas like "women will cheat if unhappy" or "marriage is risky because she'll take half of my stuff"?

You know, I started the "trust" thread for a reason. I do have a serious streak of cynicism when it comes to the "emotionally based integrity" I have experienced in women. I'm here because of a streak of poor relationships caused by poor choices on my part. In some I devolved to AFC behavior. In others I chose women that I'm beginning to believe were BPD. I found this site and embraced some of the philosophies but I still have major problems with trust.

I don't learn well from being told "do this". I already know my cynical attitude is not conducive to healthy or happy relationships. Just telling me to lose it isn't the answer I need! That thread was started in an attempt to get some input on how trust fits the DJ philosophy. Something I could use to help break this cynical attitude I'm floundering in. Yes it devolved into a debate about womens' trustworthiness, but when you are honestly seeking answers ... even negative information helps. And the thread did come back closer to track later.

Are you saying that this is not the purpose of these forums? To let those of us still floundering benefit from the experience of those who are further along? Must we limit our sharings to positive events lest we reinforce someone elses poor attitude? Or is it about a free discussion where we can take whatever we find of value and use it to progres in the dJ philosophy?

 

[kyphan]

My point is this: we can sit here and barrage ourselves with negative viewpoints on women, or we can look at a situation and come up with solutions. I have nothing against looking at the negative side of things. What bothers me is the constant barrage on how awful women seem to be. There are multiple ways of looking at each situation, and all I am hoping is we can take it and spin it in a productive way. Ranting on women and how awful they are makes me wonder why anyone would pursue them.

And lee, you need to lose the cynical attitude to some degree. Just drop it in a gutter and let someone else find it.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...
Understanding the VERY BAD things and the CONSEQUENCES of our bad decisions...will allow us to be extremely selective when it comes to choosing a woman for marriage or as the mother of our children. Plain and simple...

Eh, it's just easier to believe that you have to look like a movie star, trick a woman into wanting to be with you and screw her over before she cheats on you... :crazy:

 

[lee36044]

And lee, you need to lose the cynical attitude to some degree. Just drop it in a gutter and let someone else find it.

I hear ya there! But how about some pointers on how to do instead of just telling me what to do? Lose it! If only it were so simple.

Our attitudes are defined to a large extent by experience and mine shows me I'm better off at the least pragmatic for the present unless I really want to repeat the cycle. My goal for now is to convert that cynical streak to a more healthy pragmatism. Maybe something as simple as seeing the same streak of cynicism in others will encourage me to lose it in myself! Who knows? If I find what I'm seeking when I start a thread and open up a can of worms, maybe I'll get to experience real trust in a relationship someday too.