A friend killed himself

[darksprezzatura]

This is what I heard through the grapevine. I'm not sure what's true because people speculate.

An acquaintance I knew from college with a great job, fitness, social skills killed himself.

He seemed to have everything going on in his life, good job, ripped to the abs, sports star etc.

I assume this happened in context to his marriage last year to someone he'd been dating for some years.

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

It would be unfair for me to generalise it that way, but I would seriously consider screening women well before getting involved.

RIP.

 

[bat soup]

This is what I heard through the grapevine. I'm not sure what's true because people speculate.

An acquaintance I knew from college with a great job, fitness, social skills killed himself.

He seemed to have everything going on in his life, good job, ripped to the abs, sports star etc.

I assume this happened in context to his marriage last year to someone he'd been dating for some years.

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

It would be unfair for me to generalise it that way, but I would seriously consider screening women well before getting involved.

RIP.

I think a lot of these suicides come from being too invested in one particular person. If you make one person your whole life, then what are you left with if they leave?

 

[Grinderman]

No sympathy at all. The devastation these selfish pricks leave behind. I have empathy for the guy's family and friends, but the
murderer himself is a fvckwit. If you decided that life is not worth living FOR YOU, you can easily just turn around and dedicate yourself
to other people: dedicate yourself to your family, your kids, the fvcking homeless whatever. That would be a selfless act and it would actually fill their hearts up in the process and transform them inadvertently.......

....but the reason they cannot commit to a selfless act is because.....wait for it.....they are selfish, narcissist, sympathy seekers.....the "ultimate act of self defense" (ie boo hoo nobody sniff will every bubble bubble hurt me sniff again...)

INNER GAME IS EVERYTHING. You must be centered in yourself. A fvcking island as the waves of life and women bash against you, shaping you with experience, but never crumbling.

Edit: spelling innit

 

[Bible_Belt]

Mental illness can't be lectured away. It would be great if it were that easy, but it just isn't.

 

[corrector]

I visited a prostitute, not commit suicide, when my marriage did not work out. Visiting hooker is better than suicide.

 

[christie]

This is what I heard through the grapevine. I'm not sure what's true because people speculate.

An acquaintance I knew from college with a great job, fitness, social skills killed himself.

He seemed to have everything going on in his life, good job, ripped to the abs, sports star etc.

I assume this happened in context to his marriage last year to someone he'd been dating for some years.

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

It would be unfair for me to generalise it that way, but I would seriously consider screening women well before getting involved.

RIP.

I'm sorry for your loss.

How shocking this news must be.

That's an alarming statistic and sad too.

 

[Black Widow Void]

Sorry to read about the loss of your friend and also the way it presumably happened. Death alone is not easy to digest and when it's possibly suicide related, it's even more difficult to digest.

No sympathy at all. The devastation these selfish pricks leave behind. I have empathy for the guy's family and friends, but the
murderer himself is a fvckwit. If you decided that life is not worth living FOR YOU, you can easily just turn around and dedicate yourself
to other people: dedicate yourself to your family, your kids, the fvcking homeless whatever. That would be a selfless act and it would actually fill their hearts up in the process and transform them inadvertently.......

In all my postings, I don't think I've ever said these words, but you are 100% wrong.

I'm not an advocate of suicide (my best class mate friend killed himself in 7th grade and yes over a girl... and my old man did this too in later years- he eventually no longer had control over his kids or his wife and it was his way of "I'll show you" ) and yeah, it totally 'kills' the survivors inside. I get that and I've gone through it twice.

However, if someone truly wants to end their life and they are only hanging on because *we* can't handle it, then we are the selfish ones.

 

[Grinderman]

but you are 100% wrong.

It seems that way to you. To make such a statement that you hold the absolute truth in this matter rather than being aware that it's your subjective opinion only reveals the level at which you are emotionally attached to your subjective perceptions which you so arrogantly claim is the bastion of truth.

However, if someone truly wants to end their life and they are only hanging on because *we* can't handle it, then we are the selfish ones.

This is a strawman argument which seems to be pretty common here. Nowhere did I mention that they should "hang on" because "we can't handle it". Now if i try to understand where you are coming from I could ask..."was it in the incorrect decoding of the message that he arrived at an incorrect conclusion upon which to base his argument...?" No, the answer is quite clear and it's usually where WE ALL fall into the trap at arriving at strawman arguments......your arrogant statement of "you are wrong" reveals an inability or unwillingness to listen to or comprehend the others' point of view.......and you base your counter argument on your impatient emotional need to be right. That's on you.

What I offered was a transformation solution. Those who take their own lives are usually not operating from their full cognitive functioning abilities (in a lot of cases drugs and alcohol are involved and that amplified the problem and LOWERED INHIBITIONS in making such a permanent, devastating decision....if only they had waited until the next day.....as many a survivor will state they were glad they did).

I mean if we were to say to everyone who felt suicidal "hey go ahead and do it, it's your choice.......don't let our selfish wishes for you to be well get in the way". What a society that would be....can I be strawman like too and say.....so this is the society that you wish for. Nice, death boy.

You are probably still carrying trauma from the effects of suicide in your life, so I understand you are emotionally raw and your perspective is somewhat obfuscated.

 

[Black Widow Void]

So far, it appears that when someone uses the term "strawman" they've shown their cards; which (so far) always proves a lack grounding or foundation. Unlike your assertions, I'll back this up fact and not speculation.

If I decided tomorrow that I wanted to end my life (I don't btw and this isn't some 'cry for help') what is my obligation to you or anyone else? The answer is "none."

Keep in mind that ... aside from a few acquaintances, I've also lost my father and a 7th grade friend to suicide. Personally speaking, no mater the dark depths that I could experience, I couldn't subject others to the pain that I've previously experienced.

But... it would be unfair for me to dictate how others should conduct their life ... or their death.
Due to putting them out of their misery, horses, dogs, cats etc... are euthanized all the time. If a human also wants to be put out of their misery, they should have the same rights.

Again, it's not the person committing suicide that is being "selfish." It's you. I say this because you would be 'guilting' someone ...by expecting them to remain alive against their wishes. Their life should be more than... just coddling your emotional weaknesses.

It seems that way to you. To make such a statement that you hold the absolute truth in this matter rather than being aware that it's your subjective opinion only reveals the level at which you are emotionally attached to your subjective perceptions which you so arrogantly claim is the bastion of truth.



This is a strawman argument which seems to be pretty common here. Nowhere did I mention that they should "hang on" because "we can't handle it". Now if i try to understand where you are coming from I could ask..."was it in the incorrect decoding of the message that he arrived at an incorrect conclusion upon which to base his argument...?" No, the answer is quite clear and it's usually where WE ALL fall into the trap at arriving at strawman arguments......your arrogant statement of "you are wrong" reveals an inability or unwillingness to listen to or comprehend the others' point of view.......and you base your counter argument on your impatient emotional need to be right. That's on you.

What I offered was a transformation solution. Those who take their own lives are usually not operating from their full cognitive functioning abilities (in a lot of cases drugs and alcohol are involved and that amplified the problem and LOWERED INHIBITIONS in making such a permanent, devastating decision....if only they had waited until the next day.....as many a survivor will state they were glad they did).

I mean if we were to say to everyone who felt suicidal "hey go ahead and do it, it's your choice.......don't let our selfish wishes for you to be well get in the way". What a society that would be....can I be strawman like too and say.....so this is the society that you wish for. Nice, death boy.

You are probably still carrying trauma from the effects of suicide in your life, so I understand you are emotionally raw and your perspective is somewhat obfuscated.

 

[TheProspect]

It seems that way to you. To make such a statement that you hold the absolute truth in this matter rather than being aware that it's your subjective opinion only reveals the level at which you are emotionally attached to your subjective perceptions which you so arrogantly claim is the bastion of truth.



This is a strawman argument which seems to be pretty common here. Nowhere did I mention that they should "hang on" because "we can't handle it". Now if i try to understand where you are coming from I could ask..."was it in the incorrect decoding of the message that he arrived at an incorrect conclusion upon which to base his argument...?" No, the answer is quite clear and it's usually where WE ALL fall into the trap at arriving at strawman arguments......your arrogant statement of "you are wrong" reveals an inability or unwillingness to listen to or comprehend the others' point of view.......and you base your counter argument on your impatient emotional need to be right. That's on you.

What I offered was a transformation solution. Those who take their own lives are usually not operating from their full cognitive functioning abilities (in a lot of cases drugs and alcohol are involved and that amplified the problem and LOWERED INHIBITIONS in making such a permanent, devastating decision....if only they had waited until the next day.....as many a survivor will state they were glad they did).

I mean if we were to say to everyone who felt suicidal "hey go ahead and do it, it's your choice.......don't let our selfish wishes for you to be well get in the way". What a society that would be....can I be strawman like too and say.....so this is the society that you wish for. Nice, death boy.

You are probably still carrying trauma from the effects of suicide in your life, so I understand you are emotionally raw and your perspective is somewhat obfuscated.

Suicide is sh!tty for everyone involved.

Yes, there are people who threaten suicide and make half-a$$ attempts at doing so for attention..

... but there are just as many who simply do not want to live anymore, whether there is a "better" alternative available or not. It's not about attention for them, and even if it is, all it takes is a few moments of that mindset to make an irreversible decision. Unfortunately, no one has complete control of their mind 100% of the time nor are they operating at their "full cognitive functioning abilities" 100% of the time either... no matter what "transformative solution" you think you have to offer.

No one chooses the mind they are born with. And so it follows that no one also chooses whether they are ultimately capable of being receptive to any magical insight about suicide that someone else has.

Some people are genetically born with the tools to handle life, some are given those tools later in life through conditioning experiences. Some even once had the tools and through circumstances, often beyond their control, lost them...

No one chooses their genetics, and their conditioning is largely involuntary... even if it weren't, your genetics determine how you react to your conditioning anyway. That doesn't mean it's not practical to try and change one's mindset and environment, because of course it is, it just means that whether you "successfully" can or can't isn't ultimately your own doing. In other words, someone isn't morally bankrupt for failing to overcome their own genetics and conditioning.

It's comforting to believe we have absolute free will, but we are limited to the constraints of our genetics and conditioning, which are ultimately out of our control.


I want you to know: I'm not arguing whether what you're suggesting works or doesn't work in preventing suicide. I'm not even arguing that you should have sympathy for people who end their own lives.

What I'm saying is that you should be glad you were not born with a predisposition for apparent suicidal tendencies, and reserve moral judgement on those were, lest you down the line are ironically revealed to be one of them.

 

[samspade]

First, everybody should be selfish. It's not a bad thing. If you don't do what's in your best interests, you'll have a hard time serving others. I'm not advocating suicide, but only the individual knows what is best for him. Calling someone selfish is just a way of saying you disagree with the decision and are upset by it.

Second, suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems. It's tragic and yeah it leaves behind a lot of heartbreak. So it's natural for survivors not to be able to deal with it and get angry over it. So while I do think it's your right, it's also a pretty silly solution unless you're terminally ill, IMO.

There's a documentary called The Bridge, about the Golden Gate Bridge and the scores of people who jump from it annually. They interviewed people with suicidal thoughts. I remember one walking through it logically and concluding, "this is what I want to do" or something like that. Also, one guy survived a suicide attempt from the bridge (!) and they talked to him. He said he was 100% sure up til the moment he jumped. Once he was airborne, he said he was thinking, "Oh God, I don't want to do this."

Sorry to hear about that, OP.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

This is what I heard through the grapevine. I'm not sure what's true because people speculate.

An acquaintance I knew from college with a great job, fitness, social skills killed himself.

He seemed to have everything going on in his life, good job, ripped to the abs, sports star etc.

I assume this happened in context to his marriage last year to someone he'd been dating for some years.

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

It would be unfair for me to generalise it that way, but I would seriously consider screening women well before getting involved.

RIP.

We are sorry to hear that. Stay strong and be patient with what you are going through. Embrace it.

Suicide is a major issue in society. Often a sensitive topic most people do not dare to discuss openly. An issue that we take very seriously as it affects mostly the male gender. Statistically speaking, 80-85% of suicides are males. We take this to heart and we made it our mission to positively encourage men to challenge their views on society, relationships, values, family, themselves, etc, etc.

This needs to change, but those that are 5-10+ years ahead of them need to lead the way. Walk alongside them to be an example of positive masculinity.

You don't need to change the world, you just need to change yourself. You don't need to be in the "government" to change people's lives, you just need to smile genuinely and ask them how they are the next time you see a stranger or a friend. Often the smallest actions have big reactions if they are genuine.

Let us know how we can help.


Modern Man Advice

 

[Grinderman]

So far, it appears that when someone uses the term "strawman" they've shown their cards; which (so far) always proves a lack grounding or foundation.

You'll get one more and that's it, you've a bit of bitchy tone going on which i can understand, it's a touchy subject for you, you're still raw and emotional. The trauma is palpable. You seem to have a conditioned reaction rather trying to dig deeper and comprehend what's being said. For example, you see "strawman" and react in a conditioned way, this clouds your judgement, you lose your objectivity. I'll try to be patient with you but alas if you resort to conditioned emotional responses, it would be a lost cause attempting to converse with you. IF WE DO NOT FULLY LISTEN TO THE OTHER'S POINT OF VIEW AND GRASP WHAT THEY ARE SAYING EXACTLY (THIS MAY NEED CLARIFYING FROM YOU) WE CAN OFTEN MISINTERPRET (INCORRECT DECODING) THIER POINT OF VIEW AND WE RESPOND TO OUR MISINTERPRETATION OF WHAT THEY SAID. THIS IS AN UNINTENTIONAL STRAWMAN. THIS CAN HAPPEN WHEN WE ARE IMPATIENT OR EMOTIONAL (YOU) AND ARE JUST TOO EAGER TO RESPOND AND BE RIGHT (YOU). GET IT? GOO.

Unlike your assertions, I'll back this up fact and not speculation.

Very catty, very bitchy tone. And quite arrogant again to ascertain that YOU SPEAK FROM FACT and the rest don't.

Anyone who determines that what they say is the truth and 100% fact rather than opinion and subjective opinion is insaciable and a blockhead.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

It's comforting to believe we have absolute free will, but we are limited to the constraints of our genetics and conditioning, which are ultimately out of our control.

That truth is the blackest of pills.

 

[Alvafe]

That truth is the blackest of pills.

only if you belive, thing is free will is mostly a illussion same as freedom, as long you let people hold you, most tend to bend they will to apease they peers, but not everyone is like that, and with willpower and training you can force youself pass over it, and on that moment you will notice most people close to you will fight back and hold you back,

the line who was said here a lot, is lonely on the top is the truth, you need first of all be not only ok with being alone but like to be alone, then move, being ruthless also helps a lot

 

[Jariel]

No sympathy at all. The devastation these selfish pricks leave behind. I have empathy for the guy's family and friends, but the
murderer himself is a fvckwit. If you decided that life is not worth living FOR YOU, you can easily just turn around and dedicate yourself
to other people: dedicate yourself to your family, your kids, the fvcking homeless whatever. That would be a selfless act and it would actually fill their hearts up in the process and transform them inadvertently.......

....but the reason they cannot commit to a selfless act is because.....wait for it.....they are selfish, narcissist, sympathy seekers.....the "ultimate act of self defense" (ie boo hoo nobody sniff will every bubble bubble hurt me sniff again...)

INNER GAME IS EVERYTHING. You must be centered in yourself. A fvcking island as the waves of life and women bash against you, shaping you with experience, but never crumbling.

Edit: spelling innit

Imagine yourself doused in gasoline and set on fire. Your skin is melting, you're in unspeakable agony and even if you survive, you'll be permanently disfigured and disabled, in excruciating pain and a burden to your family and friends. Are you telling me you'd tune into your "inner game" and brave it out?

This is how people feel when they commit suicide. But instead of physical pain and torment, the agony and despair comes from within. Many of us may have come close, but nobody alive today has ever experience the level of suffering that would cause us to take our own lives, therefore none of us can judge those who have.

 

[Jariel]

This is what I heard through the grapevine. I'm not sure what's true because people speculate.

An acquaintance I knew from college with a great job, fitness, social skills killed himself.

He seemed to have everything going on in his life, good job, ripped to the abs, sports star etc.

I assume this happened in context to his marriage last year to someone he'd been dating for some years.

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

It would be unfair for me to generalise it that way, but I would seriously consider screening women well before getting involved.

RIP.

Sorry to hear this mate. An old school friend and my tattoo artist took their own lives. Like your friend, both appeared to have so much going for them - good looking, charismatic, popular, with family and friends. In both cases nobody saw it coming.

But one was going through a divorce and the other was struggling to make ends meet and support his wife and family. Like you said, a high percentage of male suicides are caused by relationship issues. I don't want to pin blame on women or anybody particular, but there is so much pressure on men to be strong role models and providers, and when we fail it can be utterly devastating and leave us feeling worthless and emasculated. So few women stand by their men during these times, while many make it worse by criticising, laying ultimatums or even cheating.

I don't want to demonise women, but there certainly needs to be more awareness of this.

 

[redskinsfan92]

I'm sorry

 

[Grinderman]

Imagine yourself doused in gasoline and set on fire. Your skin is melting, you're in unspeakable agony and even if you survive, you'll be permanently disfigured and disabled, in excruciating pain and a burden to your family and friends. Are you telling me you'd tune into your "inner game" and brave it out?

That is an absolutely ridiculous argument. Highly unlikely situation to happen. How often would this context pop up? Eh never.

what about if you were a prisoner in a concentration camp and EVERYTHING was stripped from you, your family killed, you tortured.......would be a good reason to commit suicide right? Wrong weakling. Read man's search for meaning. You can find meaning in suffering, you can ease other's suffering. You can transcend pain.

This is how people feel when they commit suicide. But instead of physical pain and torment, the agony and despair comes from within.

Right, so that is your rational by trying to link these points together to try and make an argument. You are saying "people who feel suicidal or who commit suicide feel an inner pain that's akin to being doused in petrol and set on fire" Am I following you so far? and you are saying "you expect that i would gladly choose suicide if doused in petrol therefore it's not only right that people who (all) feel an emotional pain akin to being dosed in petrol should top themselves but I should understand it as I would do it if I were doused in petrol.." Am I following your line of...eh...."thinking"?

Your logic is warped son. I would bet money that you were diagnosed with a mental illness. Am I correct? Aspergers at a guess.

Simply people running away from pain and suffering. Like babies most of these will not have matured emotionally. Pain is good. Through overcoming pain we grow. Or you can just cry, run away from pain and top yourself. Nobody cares.

But one was going through a divorce and the other was struggling to make ends meet and support his wife and family.

You see? Great example. No mental illness here. Going through a divorce? Cry like a little child or dig into your inner game and rebuild your life even find the opportunity in the perceived bad situation. Codependent biatch could not handle standing on his own two feet like a fvcking man. Nothing got to do with being dosed in petrol. Second fella, what a cvnt. So he was struggling to make ends mee and support his wife and family.....so instead of sticking it out and staying in ABUNDANCE the snivelling worm runs away from his responsibilities and DEVASTATES his wife and family putting them in an even worse situation. Nothing to do with being dosed in petrol here. Just another crybaby coward. Rot in pieces to the two of them.

Like you said, a high percentage of male suicides are caused by relationship issues.

Inner game also known as BEING CENTERED IN YOURSELF sorts that out. BEING INDEPENDENT not codependent. (inner game issues). Confirmed my point, my aspergers friend.

and when we fail it can be utterly devastating and leave us feeling worthless and emasculated. So few women stand by their men during these times, while many make it worse by criticising, laying ultimatums or even cheating.

It's clear you are codependent. Sort your inner game out sunshine!! Get off the meds!!

 

[deadmasterx]

Not my thing to say, but statistically 62% of young male suicides are due to relationship issues.

That's absolutely true, but I dare to say that is even more than 62%.

When I was in the Army I always heard stories of guys that killed themselves because of breakups, marriage problems, etc. You may be thinking that it's more common among the recruits (and 2nd class soldiers), but no. Most of them were Sargents, even high ranked officers (Colonels). Some of them took the chance of having access to guns (during a guard duty, for example) to kill themselves, other did it at home.

I think that there are a lot of things being said these days about the physical violence of men against women, but nobody seems to care about the emotional violence that most women commit against men.