3 Reasons why the average man is struggling today

[Clockwerk50]

Think of it like poisoning the well. These men do not need to be rich, just good looking with plenty of free time and a fun lifestyle to offer. Once a woman gets a strong taste of that experience, her expectations for average men can be completely ruined. Combine that with the reality that most average men are disappointing, and it is game over for them. You might not be competing with them directly, but they are still drinking your milkshake.

So we went from “ultra-rich and pro athletes ruining women” to “just good-looking guys with fun lifestyles setting a new bar.” Anyways, I agree with the premise. It doesn’t take a billionaire to shift expectations, just a guy with high enough appeal in one or two categories who offers excitement or novelty. It is human nature to re-create our "best" experiences from our past.

 

[RickTheToad]

1. The Economic Dead Zone Trap

In today’s world, women often get a head start in their careers. Thanks to early social support, better academic performance, and strong entry level opportunities, many women are ahead of men by the time they reach their mid-twenties. Meanwhile, a lot of men between the ages of 24 and 40 are stuck in what I call the Economic Dead Zone. They are not making enough money to be taken seriously by women their age, and they often lack the time, energy, or freedom to date younger or less financially demanding women.

Picture a World War One battlefield. On one side are younger men, broke men, and low-income guys who still attract women for short term flings/casual entertainment and are viable with the largest dating pool in the market...lower status & young women. On the other side are wealthy and high-status men who get access to almost every woman. In the middle stands the average man. He is decent, hardworking, and stable, but he is ignored by women chasing either fun or status. He is not reckless enough to be exciting, and not rich enough to be seen as long-term potential by women his age making more money than him. He becomes invisible.

Many men try to escape this dead zone by mimicking the broke and reckless crowd. They spend all their time, energy, and money chasing women in an effort to compete. They go out constantly, overextend themselves, and pour resources into validation rather than value. But this only leads to stagnation. They burn out. They fall further behind. And the gap between them and the high-status group continues to grow.

The real way out is different. It starts with accepting the hard truth. A man has to stop chasing attention and start building leverage. That means focusing on career growth, financial strength, personal discipline, and long-term value. The dating market rewards progress, not desperation. When you level up, your options increase. Until then, the dead zone will keep you trapped until you die by a mortar shell.

2. Hypergamy and the SMV Imbalance

Dating today is not local anymore. Thanks to dating apps, social media, and travel culture, the average woman can interact with high-value men across the country or even the world. Women who would have once settled down with someone in their town are now casually dating or hooking up with men well above their own sexual market value. Why? Because they can. And those men are saying yes.

This creates an imbalance. A woman who is a six or seven in looks might be sleeping with men who are nines or tens. That experience raises her expectations. Suddenly, the average guy no longer feels good enough to her, even if he is actually the best match long term. This is not entirely her fault either. These high-value men are giving her attention, showing her a good time, and in some cases even pretending to offer more. As a result, when the average man steps in, she compares him to a fantasy and finds him lacking aka the alpha widow syndrome.

This leads to a dating pool where women hold out for the top five percent of men, while the rest are just SOL.

3. Lack of Game and Male Authenticity

Let’s be honest. Most men today are failing to make a good impression. They do not have social awareness, they lack confidence, and they often present themselves in ways that instantly turn women off. Some are overly passive and afraid to lead. Others try to fake confidence by copying red pill influencers or pretending to be the nice guy, only to turn bitter when things do not go their way.

Think of dating like a job interview. Women are the screeners. They are constantly filtering out guys who give off bad signals. If you come across as insecure, arrogant, or fake, you are getting rejected before you even get a chance to connect. And yes, women are paying attention. I have seen the messages in their dating apps and social media inboxes. I have even made female profiles just to watch how men behave. Most are not even in the running.

Do most women suck and have high standards? Yes, but I cannot just blame women without stating the elephant in the room. The problem is that too many men are either not putting in the work or trying to be someone they are not. If you want better results, you need to improve your real self, not act like a copy of someone else.

Most people do not have to work any longer to survive. We have so many social programs it's crazy. Parents are also taking care of their "kids" longer in life. I was gone in my late teens. I know several who are in their 30's and stilll living with their parents.

I have a couple, nice couple, moving into one of my apartments and their in their early 30's. They were in their parent's homes until now.

Woman are more aggressive than men since that's the popular agenda in western countries. No problem with successful women, that's great, but many men are clueless these days. It's scary.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Nothing to do with that...most people are not willing to be anything but average because it requires too much work and effort to chase greatness.

Average is easy...you can relax, do whatever you want on your off days, watch TV, play video games, do things that don't amount to anything useful to kill time...

Brings us back around to a conversation we were having elsewhere https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...s-nothing-personal.283972/page-9#post-3156222

In one sense, dating and mating now is easier than it's been in a long f-cking time. Why? Because the general public's perception of men is so abysmal, folks(women especially)are astounded, whenever they encounter a guy who DOESN'T look, speak, and behave like a basement dwelling D&D junkie or a fentanyl fiend who's on the brink of keeling over dead

 

[Mike32ct]

In one sense, dating and mating now is easier than it's been in a long f-cking time. Why? Because the general public's perception of men is so abysmal, folks(women especially)are astounded, whenever they encounter a guy who DOESN'T look, speak, and behave like a basement dwelling D&D junkie or a fentanyl fiend who's on the brink of keeling over dead

Ok, but we have other posters claiming that dating/mating is hyper competitive today.

It can’t be both.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Ok, but we have other posters claiming that dating/mating is hyper competitive today.

It can’t be both.

You've gotta compete with the 5 other guys within a 200 mile radius who are out on the town, rather than binge watching Andor and The Pit, it's true

 

[Mike32ct]

You've gotta compete with the 5 other guys within a 200 mile radius who are out on the town, rather than binge watching Andor and The Pit, it's true

Just to be clear, I was referring to a funny trend I noticed from other posters (not you personally).

First, it was “Dating is only easy for the top 5/10/15/20 percent guys.” Ok fair enough.

Then it changed to “Competition is fierce because of OLD, more guys working out, and more guys focusing on money/status. You need A, B, C, and D to attract a woman. But guys suck today, so you can clean up if you can manage to be above the bare minimum.”

The last paragraph was always a head scratcher LOL.

 

[sangheilios]

Being average is a choice

This is coming from a guy that is 5'8", which is actually slightly below average for a male in America lol.

 

[sangheilios]

Just to be clear, I was referring to a funny trend I noticed from other posters (not you personally).

First, it was “Dating is only easy for the top 5/10/15/20 percent guys.” Ok fair enough.

Then it changed to “Competition is fierce because of OLD, more guys working out, and more guys focusing on money/status. You need A, B, C, and D to attract a woman. But guys suck today, so you can clean up if you can manage to be above the bare minimum.”

The last paragraph was always a head scratcher LOL.

How they present that idea is the issue.

That other poster is correct in that social media and dating apps means that a man is competing with potentially a huge number of men that otherwise wouldn't be in the potential dating pool. Women before these technologies existed dated men they crossed paths with or knew through their social circle. I would argue that a woman can have a greater abundance of potential in a given period of month than she would have had in an entire lifetime if she were to be placed just a couple decades ago.

This means that the dating market is much harder for men. A guy doing the bare minimum will be invisible on these dating apps, so they aren't even playing lol. However, for guys that potentially can get some success it's still difficult for sure. A real life male 7-8 is probably only getting likes/matches from female 4-6s and under, whereas in real life he should realistically be around his league.

Basically, a decent looking or even (very) attractive guy can get way more matches than an average, let alone below average guy. However, most of these matches are below his league, maybe even by quite a good margin. The question is whether or not these men are willing to entertain this at all, let alone enter into a relationship with them. The issue is that some dumb female 4 that got a hookup from a male 7 starts thinking that is her actual league, while rejecting men that are around her level that are more suitable for a long term relationship.

 

[New_Journey]

She "talks" with other guys and gossips about them

Haha women gossiping, that's what they do. Imagine what she will talk with her girl friends when Clock does the werk v50 in bed and she can't walk the next morning. And we all know what happens when you mix women and curiosity.

She's very pretty. She could lose 5 pounds of fat and her frame will look immensely good with her face.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is coming from a guy that is 5'8", which is actually slightly below average for a male in America lol.

I have the mindset of someone 7' 10". And that's far more important.

 

[DJ Novice]

Looks, money and status do not exclusively attract all women, only the gold diggers. Most women place most importance on their emotions when it comes to who they are attracted to.

If you can stimulate a woman’s emotions, you’re ahead of most guys.

The current girl I am three weeks into dating had her ex boyfriend move back from overseas and propose to her two weeks into our dating. He was offering her a life either overseas or in my home country where she no longer had to work and he would provide for her. Big house, everythin guy sounded loaded.

After a day of thinking she rejected him for yours truly. Women can be brutal. I feel for the guy but she made it clear she had emotionally moved on with him and the offer of some rich guy held no attraction for her.

As to what she sees in me, I have no idea other than I can match her intellectually (she’s a science nerd).

 

[CornbreadFed]

Looks, money and status do not exclusively attract all women, only the gold diggers. Most women place most importance on their emotions when it comes to who they are attracted to.

If you can stimulate a woman’s emotions, you’re ahead of most guys.

The current girl I am three weeks into dating had her ex boyfriend move back from overseas and propose to her two weeks into our dating. He was offering her a life either overseas or in my home country where she no longer had to work and he would provide for her. Big house, everythin guy sounded loaded.

After a day of thinking she rejected him for yours truly. Women can be brutal. I feel for the guy but she made it clear she had emotionally moved on with him and the offer of some rich guy held no attraction for her.

As to what she sees in me, I have no idea other than I can match her intellectually (she’s a science nerd).

This is probably the most important woman advice you will find on this site. The key to retaining women and not getting involved in their BS games and shvt tests is keeping the emotional roller coaster going.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

1. The Economic Dead Zone Trap

In today’s world, women often get a head start in their careers. Thanks to early social support, better academic performance, and strong entry level opportunities, many women are ahead of men by the time they reach their mid-twenties. Meanwhile, a lot of men between the ages of 24 and 40 are stuck in what I call the Economic Dead Zone. They are not making enough money to be taken seriously by women their age, and they often lack the time, energy, or freedom to date younger or less financially demanding women.

Picture a World War One battlefield. On one side are younger men, broke men, and low-income guys who still attract women for short term flings/casual entertainment and are viable with the largest dating pool in the market...lower status & young women. On the other side are wealthy and high-status men who get access to almost every woman. In the middle stands the average man. He is decent, hardworking, and stable, but he is ignored by women chasing either fun or status. He is not reckless enough to be exciting, and not rich enough to be seen as long-term potential by women his age making more money than him. He becomes invisible.

Many men try to escape this dead zone by mimicking the broke and reckless crowd. They spend all their time, energy, and money chasing women in an effort to compete. They go out constantly, overextend themselves, and pour resources into validation rather than value. But this only leads to stagnation. They burn out. They fall further behind. And the gap between them and the high-status group continues to grow.

The real way out is different. It starts with accepting the hard truth. A man has to stop chasing attention and start building leverage. That means focusing on career growth, financial strength, personal discipline, and long-term value. The dating market rewards progress, not desperation. When you level up, your options increase. Until then, the dead zone will keep you trapped until you die by a mortar shell.

2. Hypergamy and the SMV Imbalance

Dating today is not local anymore. Thanks to dating apps, social media, and travel culture, the average woman can interact with high-value men across the country or even the world. Women who would have once settled down with someone in their town are now casually dating or hooking up with men well above their own sexual market value. Why? Because they can. And those men are saying yes.

This creates an imbalance. A woman who is a six or seven in looks might be sleeping with men who are nines or tens. That experience raises her expectations. Suddenly, the average guy no longer feels good enough to her, even if he is actually the best match long term. This is not entirely her fault either. These high-value men are giving her attention, showing her a good time, and in some cases even pretending to offer more. As a result, when the average man steps in, she compares him to a fantasy and finds him lacking aka the alpha widow syndrome.

This leads to a dating pool where women hold out for the top five percent of men, while the rest are just SOL.

3. Lack of Game and Male Authenticity

Let’s be honest. Most men today are failing to make a good impression. They do not have social awareness, they lack confidence, and they often present themselves in ways that instantly turn women off. Some are overly passive and afraid to lead. Others try to fake confidence by copying red pill influencers or pretending to be the nice guy, only to turn bitter when things do not go their way.

Think of dating like a job interview. Women are the screeners. They are constantly filtering out guys who give off bad signals. If you come across as insecure, arrogant, or fake, you are getting rejected before you even get a chance to connect. And yes, women are paying attention. I have seen the messages in their dating apps and social media inboxes. I have even made female profiles just to watch how men behave. Most are not even in the running.

Do most women suck and have high standards? Yes, but I cannot just blame women without stating the elephant in the room. The problem is that too many men are either not putting in the work or trying to be someone they are not. If you want better results, you need to improve your real self, not act like a copy of someone else.

yeah i've heard some people say basically the only skills women need to know or learn are how to avoid getting used by a man or how to screen a man, how to distinguish, filter between the guys, men, who actually want a relationship, versus those who just want sex only, once women learn and figure that out, they are basically all set, its options galore for them.

 

[itouchyou]

I have even made female profiles just to watch how men behave. Most are not even in the running.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this part of your post, specifically about how the higher value men you encounter behave. Are they still simps and/or beta? The guys with a good physique, money, etc.

I think the amount of guys out there who really get it are few and far in between.

 

[DreamAgain]

Only point 2 really has any validity, the rest are complete fallacy and indicative of a person who doesn't understand how the economy nor human interactions work.

Frankly, there are not enough economic opportunities out there for all men to become high income earners. It is like most things distributed by a Gaussian distribution. You can see on linkedin just how many applications there are for job postings, and look at the statistics how many graduates are getting pumped out versus what the economy is offering.

This is not to mention at all outsourcing and bringing in H1B labour as well.

Point 3 is again a logical fallacy following point 1, that everyone can become very charismatic or extremely fit, whatever it may be.

Most people, this includes men and women, are average in looks and in intellectual capabilities. You can optimize only so much but there is a limited amount of willpower to do things when you are already working long enough hours, have other obligations, to dedicate to optimizing your physique.

And let's be honest, a physique will rarely look impressive today especially with clothes on even if you are a great runner, or lift 3-4x a week. PEDs have become normalized and are almost necessary to have an impressive physique.

 

[SW15]

a physique will rarely look impressive today especially with clothes on even if you are a great runner, or lift 3-4x a week.

Most weeks, I exercise 4-5 times a week. I often combine both cardio and weight training. My physique is more slender than the jacked, massive looked.

Physique matters most in approaching on the general gym floor and at commercialized pool parties. It matters in other venues but not as much. For instance, the grocery store and the mall are places where physique will matter less on approaches. They still matter though. I likely get fewer harsh blowouts due to having solid facial aesthetics, only being Norwood 1-1.5 in my early 40s, and having some muscle definition.

Getting Laid as a Result of Going to Pool Parties

After using the Search function here, I realize that there hasn't been a lot of discussion about getting laid as a result of going to pool parties. The lay doesn't have to happen on the same day as the pool party, but at some time after meeting a woman at a pool party. Let me be more specific...

www.sosuave.net

PEDs have become normalized and are almost necessary to have an impressive physique.

I haven't used any PEDs to build muscle. I think there are more downsides in seductions than upsides with PEDs. The potential sexual side effects are relevant.

 

[DreamAgain]

Most weeks, I exercise 4-5 times a week. I often combine both cardio and weight training. My physique is more slender than the jacked, massive looked.

Physique matters most in approaching on the general gym floor and at commercialized pool parties. It matters in other venues but not as much. For instance, the grocery store and the mall are places where physique will matter less on approaches. They still matter though. I likely get fewer harsh blowouts due to having solid facial aesthetics, only being Norwood 1-1.5 in my early 40s, and having some muscle definition.

Getting Laid as a Result of Going to Pool Parties

After using the Search function here, I realize that there hasn't been a lot of discussion about getting laid as a result of going to pool parties. The lay doesn't have to happen on the same day as the pool party, but at some time after meeting a woman at a pool party. Let me be more specific...

www.sosuave.net

I haven't used any PEDs to build muscle. I think there are more downsides in seductions than upsides with PEDs. The potential sexual side effects are relevant.

You should look into how prevalent SARM use has become. Many guys now, in areas like Miami, are blasting these and looking close to professional athlete level.

A regular guy who goes to the gym 3-4 times a week, assuming he has a flat stomach, will look certainly better than doing nothing, but his face and style will make the biggest impression on whether or not a cold approach has a positive reception.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Frankly, there are not enough economic opportunities out there for all men to become high income earners

This is America... Create them if you need to

 

[itouchyou]

You should look into how prevalent SARM use has become. Many guys now, in areas like Miami, are blasting these and looking close to professional athlete level.

A regular guy who goes to the gym 3-4 times a week, assuming he has a flat stomach, will look certainly better than doing nothing, but his face and style will make the biggest impression on whether or not a cold approach has a positive reception.

Yea, back in 2016ish I was super lean, and it was rare at that time. Nowadays I hop on IG and every other guy has a shredded physique. Getting to 10% bodyfat alone is insanely difficult, but most of these guys on IG are lower than that. It's just not possible that so many guys are getting there naturally AND maintaining size on top of it.

So for me, I don't bother trying to use my physique to my advantage, I rather just stay lean so my face looks good. Still have a good physique but I don't think it's much of a selling point anymore.

 

[SW15]

You should look into how prevalent SARM use has become. Many guys now, in areas like Miami, are blasting these and looking close to professional athlete level.

A regular guy who goes to the gym 3-4 times a week, assuming he has a flat stomach, will look certainly better than doing nothing, but his face and style will make the biggest impression on whether or not a cold approach has a positive reception.

back in 2016ish I was super lean, and it was rare at that time. Nowadays I hop on IG and every other guy has a shredded physique. Getting to 10% bodyfat alone is insanely difficult, but most of these guys on IG are lower than that. It's just not possible that so many guys are getting there naturally AND maintaining size on top of it.

So for me, I don't bother trying to use my physique to my advantage, I rather just stay lean so my face looks good. Still have a good physique but I don't think it's much of a selling point anymore.

For many years, I've been a guy who has exercised 4-5 days a week most weeks. That's been a combination of weight training, fitness classes, and cardiovascular sports.

My physique has never stood out.