FratAndDiddy
Senior Don Juan
and may i ask why not?
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
27 and nothing
- Thread starter chancer357
- Start date
"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"
I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.
The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.
Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.
chancer357
Don Juan
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The same reasons as before. It doesn't matter what people say, I just honestly don't believe I'm as good as anyone else when it comes to most things and I really don't believe I'll ever be able to change. It doesn't really matter how much people say to think posatively, or how many ways they try to word that message - I just have nothing to start from.
chancer357
Don Juan
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I answered only because someone specifically asked.
It's more than a problem with not being comfortable with myself, or with just a bout of depression - although thats a part of it. I've never been comfortable with myself, I never really enjoyed much of anything. I don't remember when the last time I really was happy about anything was. Probably the closest feeling to that was relief when I finally am able to just fall asleep.
I don't think its uncommon for people to feel this way sometimes, but it certainly is uncommon for them to feel this way all the time, to the point where it affects thier life as much it has me.
After reading about it, I think it probably started off as social anxiety a long time ago. Then that probebly led to depression and the destruction of all confidence and any posative self-image.
It probably sounds self, but I really am not intereted in helping anyone else. I just don't care. I can't help myself, why would I want to help someone else? I know it sounds cold, and I expect people will immediately turn this around and ask why they should help me. I really don't expect anyone to help me, and I don;t belive I can be helped anymore. I'm just being honest, I just don't care about anything and I don't have the motivation to go out and try to help people when I'm not even comfortable in a normal day to day situation.
What did people expect me to do? Get a dog and start talking to people? Start going to church everyday? Start just believing in myself? Start helping my community to forget about how I feel. Maybe they are good ideas and work well for some people, they just aren't for me. I understand that people are trying to offer helpful suggestions, or motivate me to change somehow. I simply don't have anything left to change myself on my own - there just isn't anything there. I only answer here because it doesn't cost much to type, I really don't have to interact with people for real and because I can't sleep.
Sooner or later I'll just stop doing anytthing, stop going to work, stop eating altogether. Whatever. At that point someone will have to come looking for me and maybe I'll be forced into hospitolization and MAYBE some kind of treatment might start for me then. But I don't think it will really solve anything. They might give me something to keep me from doing something so self destructive again. I don't think you could ever really function normally in society after that, though.
Ok, I'm gonna follow-up again, because you still don't get it. People expected from you to do at least something, whatever, just anything.
But what did you really do? Apparently NOTHING. And that is the problem, man. How can you expect your situation getting better if you just sit on your a**, stare into the computer, reply cluelessly and avoid doing anything new? You really think the world's gonna find you and help you out if you lock yourself at home, stop eating and goint out?
Don't be naive, it won't. Most likely you'll end up like one of those lonely living people. Being found - many times even too late in a horrible condition - seriously injured from attempted suicides. Is this gonna help you? No, it's not. Is this what you want?
If you're not able going for the big moves (I ain't either, it's natural and one has always to fight it) so start slowly. Like a kid's walk.
Try for example to reduce time spent watching TV, or surfin' the net by 30 minutes each day. And instead spend the time out - OUT OF THE HOUSE. You could be reading magazines in one of the grocery stores, hanging around in the public library, going for a shot to a bar (if you go daily, people there will notice you - guaranteed), everything will be better than following your nowhere leading daily routine.
Find something that you like and follow it. Go for a trip in the weekend. Even alone, spend some money. Go to some unknown place. Ask for a vacation from your job. There's even a plenty of trips specially designed for singles with meeting opportunities.
Or ask anyone from your family to go fishing with them or roller-skating, mountainbiking, whatever.
Now, instead of writing us again after a week that you couldn't do anything from above, try to be more exact.
Why can't you go fishing with your uncle, why can't you take a vacation? Just write it down either for yourself or for us. Try to put down facts and you'll be surprised.
One last comment.
I have a friend, he's 32, he's helpless with the girls (mainly because he acts like as if being 55), mostly he even screws my own hunts, sometimes even deliberately :-(
He'll never be a DJ or even moderate with women, but he knows this, he doesn't aim so high. Last time he told me he's probably destined for an endless bachelorate, but neither of this makes him feel he should lock himselft at home and get isolated from outer world.
And suddenly his prize has come. He somehow revelead his assets (upper-middle class with 2 houses, a flat, ...) to one girl. A waitress from our favorite bar that 2 other friends were mad about. And it worked. Truely she more of hooked him to herselft. But he's happy, he has a hot company in bed, someone to go to cinema with. And he feels happy now, when he compares himself to his friends' all-time struggles for new and better chicks.
I made it long again, sorry
I just wanted to show, that one shouldn't be desperate when he's not as successful as other guys posting here around. Everything needs a start. Just take an account of your assets and use it in your favor. Everyone has some.
I have a friend, he's 32, he's helpless with the girls (mainly because he acts like as if being 55), mostly he even screws my own hunts, sometimes even deliberately :-(
He'll never be a DJ or even moderate with women, but he knows this, he doesn't aim so high. Last time he told me he's probably destined for an endless bachelorate, but neither of this makes him feel he should lock himselft at home and get isolated from outer world.
And suddenly his prize has come. He somehow revelead his assets (upper-middle class with 2 houses, a flat, ...) to one girl. A waitress from our favorite bar that 2 other friends were mad about. And it worked. Truely she more of hooked him to herselft. But he's happy, he has a hot company in bed, someone to go to cinema with. And he feels happy now, when he compares himself to his friends' all-time struggles for new and better chicks.
I made it long again, sorry
I just wanted to show, that one shouldn't be desperate when he's not as successful as other guys posting here around. Everything needs a start. Just take an account of your assets and use it in your favor. Everyone has some."How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
WestCoaster
Master Don Juan
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- May 8, 2003
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Some homework for Chancer
You're clinically depressed. Get some psychiatric or psychological help first, and go from there.
That said, here's some cognitive behavioral help:
* Who told you you're not as good as others?
* And these people who told you this, what makes their opinion so valid? What evidence do you have that their opinion means something? And this could be your parents, too. Just because they raised you doesn't mean every word out of their mouths is gospel. Newsflash: Not everything your parents told you is completely right or completely wrong!
* These people who somewhere along the line told you, you were nothing ... why did you give them this power over you and complete control of their psyche? And how has giving this power to them been beneficial to you?
* If no one told you that you weren't as good as others, somewhere you conjured this up in your mind. So what evidence do you have that you're not as good as others? And don't give me this I-can't-get-a-date deal ... that means absolutely nothing in regards to the value of a human being.
** So your homework assignment is to tell me:
1. Who told you that you werent' as good as others?
2. Why is their opinion valid?
3. Why did you allow these people to have this power over you?
4. If you put this in your own mind, what evidence do you have that you're not as good as others?
**
I know being clinically depressed you probably don't want to answer those questions, but I'd like them answered. And, the old, "No one told me this," or, "I don't know where I got these beliefs," won't cut it in my book.
They came from somewhere. You need to first identify the false beliefs, analyze the false beliefs, discover that the beliefs have no merit, then banish the beliefs from your mind.
Get back to me, please.
You're clinically depressed. Get some psychiatric or psychological help first, and go from there.
That said, here's some cognitive behavioral help:
* Who told you you're not as good as others?
* And these people who told you this, what makes their opinion so valid? What evidence do you have that their opinion means something? And this could be your parents, too. Just because they raised you doesn't mean every word out of their mouths is gospel. Newsflash: Not everything your parents told you is completely right or completely wrong!
* These people who somewhere along the line told you, you were nothing ... why did you give them this power over you and complete control of their psyche? And how has giving this power to them been beneficial to you?
* If no one told you that you weren't as good as others, somewhere you conjured this up in your mind. So what evidence do you have that you're not as good as others? And don't give me this I-can't-get-a-date deal ... that means absolutely nothing in regards to the value of a human being.
** So your homework assignment is to tell me:
1. Who told you that you werent' as good as others?
2. Why is their opinion valid?
3. Why did you allow these people to have this power over you?
4. If you put this in your own mind, what evidence do you have that you're not as good as others?
**
I know being clinically depressed you probably don't want to answer those questions, but I'd like them answered. And, the old, "No one told me this," or, "I don't know where I got these beliefs," won't cut it in my book.
They came from somewhere. You need to first identify the false beliefs, analyze the false beliefs, discover that the beliefs have no merit, then banish the beliefs from your mind.
Get back to me, please.
TooColdUlrick
Master Don Juan
look chancer, you know you have a problem, this much is clear. you know what do to about it, this much is also clear. you also know that it's fixable--millions of people have this very same problem and they've fixed it.
i don't give a fukk if you're clinically depressed or what--you still seem to be a logical person nevertheless. you need to wipe up that pool of tears that your keyboard is swimming in and make a simple phone call.
you remind me of some of my dot com buddies who bought at the top, watched their fortunes plummet but hoping, just hoping that it would recover. guess what? it didn't!
De Nile ain't just a river.
i have very little sympathy for you simply because you know you have a problem, you know it needs to be fixed, you clearly know what the consequences are if you don't, but yet you refuse to take even a baby step to correct it. it's your life, do whatever you want with it.
there isn't anyone here on these boards that can help you my friend. getting a puppy ain't gonna help. take some personal responsibility and get yourself some real help. you know you have to, so do it.
i'm done with this thread.
i don't give a fukk if you're clinically depressed or what--you still seem to be a logical person nevertheless. you need to wipe up that pool of tears that your keyboard is swimming in and make a simple phone call.
you're sitting on your azz just waiting to hit absolute rock bottom. you're waiting for someone to rescue you from your misery. you're waiting to lose everything.
you remind me of some of my dot com buddies who bought at the top, watched their fortunes plummet but hoping, just hoping that it would recover. guess what? it didn't!
De Nile ain't just a river.
i have very little sympathy for you simply because you know you have a problem, you know it needs to be fixed, you clearly know what the consequences are if you don't, but yet you refuse to take even a baby step to correct it. it's your life, do whatever you want with it.
there isn't anyone here on these boards that can help you my friend. getting a puppy ain't gonna help. take some personal responsibility and get yourself some real help. you know you have to, so do it.
i'm done with this thread.
Hybrid2
New Member
Chancer,do you have any hobies?
it would help a lot,to have something else to think about that your patetic life.
I read comic books and It work for me.At least get a pet.
we`re a lot alike,I dont have a lot of confidence,when I start tinking about my life.
And I do think that I cant do things as good as others.
But the people I work with do a lot to help me with that lately.(not a compliment.)
But trying to think positive,reading arond here and asking advise in other places helped me.
I asked my first girl out,this weekend.
She did`nt say yes.
But she did`nt say no.
She`s just work way to much to have a life and date.
I`m not giving up on her.
Starting talking to people is hard for me,so it would be hard to find someone else.
You have to stop thinking about your life,man.
If that`s all I was doing I would probably be lock-up somewhere,eating pills all day.
it would help a lot,to have something else to think about that your patetic life.
I read comic books and It work for me.At least get a pet.
we`re a lot alike,I dont have a lot of confidence,when I start tinking about my life.
And I do think that I cant do things as good as others.
But the people I work with do a lot to help me with that lately.(not a compliment.)
But trying to think positive,reading arond here and asking advise in other places helped me.
I asked my first girl out,this weekend.
She did`nt say yes.
But she did`nt say no.
She`s just work way to much to have a life and date.
I`m not giving up on her.
Starting talking to people is hard for me,so it would be hard to find someone else.
You have to stop thinking about your life,man.
If that`s all I was doing I would probably be lock-up somewhere,eating pills all day.
Hi there, if you don't want to help yourself, nobody can! Start by going to social groups, do community service and such. You don't have to talk to anyone, they'll come talk to you , just open yourself up to them. People in these goodwill groups are very friendly. You can do something to help someone in needs, kill your free time, have a chance to make friends with others and at the same time cure your antisocial disease one step at a time.
, just open yourself up to them. People in these goodwill groups are very friendly. You can do something to help someone in needs, kill your free time, have a chance to make friends with others and at the same time cure your antisocial disease one step at a time.mahon83050
Banned
Hey Chancer, I am proof that you are not alone:
I am 27, slightly above average in looks, tall (6'0), good morals and more sophisitcated than the average guy.
I have never had a true long term relationship and it probably has been the cause of my depressive episodes over the past 8 years.
I still live at home with my parents and I am in a job I am not happy with.
I admit I have a problem...just like you.....It seems I need a women to validate my life and to increase my self-worth. As many times as I try to say...I do not need women...I find that I am lying to myself.
Yesterday, some girl at work seems like she rejected my advances ( I was depressed all day). This is not good behavior, but I am working to change that. I am currenty on meds and I am going to go for some therapy. I am not counting on the therapy to work wonders, but atleast I will be sharing my thoughts with someone and get weight off my chest.
I know it is hard to be lonely and single. It is a vicious cycle my friend. We are depressed because of our lack of success with women, which in turn turn off women more, which then makes us more depressed? The million dollar question is, how am i supposed to be happy without a women? "You need to get your validation from your life, not women. I know this sounds like a hard, but it is true.
Deep down, I know I am a good catch. There are plenty of guys shorter, uglier and dumber than myself with cute girlfriends. But you know what the problem is, most likely my attitude. I think girls have a sixth sense when I guy is not happy with himself. And DO NOT think for one minute that they will feel attracted to you out of self-pity. It is a dog-eat dog world my friend, women are ONLY attracted to men to are happy with their own lives....not matter how tall or handsome you are. Change comes from within first.
I am 27, slightly above average in looks, tall (6'0), good morals and more sophisitcated than the average guy.
I have never had a true long term relationship and it probably has been the cause of my depressive episodes over the past 8 years.
I still live at home with my parents and I am in a job I am not happy with.
I admit I have a problem...just like you.....It seems I need a women to validate my life and to increase my self-worth. As many times as I try to say...I do not need women...I find that I am lying to myself.
Yesterday, some girl at work seems like she rejected my advances ( I was depressed all day). This is not good behavior, but I am working to change that. I am currenty on meds and I am going to go for some therapy. I am not counting on the therapy to work wonders, but atleast I will be sharing my thoughts with someone and get weight off my chest.
I know it is hard to be lonely and single. It is a vicious cycle my friend. We are depressed because of our lack of success with women, which in turn turn off women more, which then makes us more depressed? The million dollar question is, how am i supposed to be happy without a women? "You need to get your validation from your life, not women. I know this sounds like a hard, but it is true.
Deep down, I know I am a good catch. There are plenty of guys shorter, uglier and dumber than myself with cute girlfriends. But you know what the problem is, most likely my attitude. I think girls have a sixth sense when I guy is not happy with himself. And DO NOT think for one minute that they will feel attracted to you out of self-pity. It is a dog-eat dog world my friend, women are ONLY attracted to men to are happy with their own lives....not matter how tall or handsome you are. Change comes from within first.
"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."
Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.
Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?
You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.
Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.
mrbrooklyn
Don Juan
mahon83050
Dude you have been on this board since 2000 and have well over 1500 post. How are you still battling fear of approach/rejection? Does this site help you out or do you use it as a avenue to vent your frustration. Why don't you try to do a workshop or something? The guys that run workshops force you to get out of your comfort zone. That is the biggest problem with most people on this board. We shouldn't use sosouve as a crutch, we should use it as a spring board to success.
Dude you have been on this board since 2000 and have well over 1500 post. How are you still battling fear of approach/rejection? Does this site help you out or do you use it as a avenue to vent your frustration. Why don't you try to do a workshop or something? The guys that run workshops force you to get out of your comfort zone. That is the biggest problem with most people on this board. We shouldn't use sosouve as a crutch, we should use it as a spring board to success.
mahon83050
Banned
BTW, I have made lots of progress since I joined this board, Mr Brooklyn...I just have not had a long-term girlfriend since.
Here are my stats...
High School and College 1992-1999
Probably hooked up with only three or four girls and only went on like 7 or 8 dates total with maybe 3 different girls.
Since I joined this site in 2000
Been out with probably 12 different girls.......maybe 25 dates total. The problem is I either did not feel the chemistry or they did not feel the same about me. My longest is 4 dates. So, is this progress....it sure is. I am just depressed I have not struck gold when it seems so many others have. Also, it is been alot harder to meet girls since being out of college. So, I HAVE MADE Progress.
mrbrooklyn
Don Juan
I am not sure how far you are from NYC, but you could always join the NYC lair. A lot of guys there with the same interest in mind. They can help you out because they know what you are going through.
I am hanging out with a few naturals out here and it has helped me out alot.
Having a girlfriend is not all that. Whenever I don't have a girl I want one, when i do have a girl I wish she never came around.
I am hanging out with a few naturals out here and it has helped me out alot.
Having a girlfriend is not all that. Whenever I don't have a girl I want one, when i do have a girl I wish she never came around.
chancer357
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
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Re: Some homework for Chancer
No one ever gave me a reason to believe I was as good as anyone else, obviously the way my life is going I'm not as good as everyone else who can find something to enjoy in life.
What do you mean? If I say they are wrong what makes my opion valid?
Everyone I ever went to school with, from kindergarden through high school. Everyone who pretended I was invisilbe in collage and grad school.
No one ever gave me a reason to believe I was as good as anyone else, obviously the way my life is going I'm not as good as everyone else who can find something to enjoy in life.
Why is any opionion valid or invalid?
What do you mean? If I say they are wrong what makes my opion valid?
The evidence to me is my life the way it is now.
chancer357
Don Juan
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- Jan 3, 2004
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- 139
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How many things have you done in public this weekend? How many people did you talk to?
Its more than I have since the begining of the year. I was going to try to do something today but I ended up not doing anything. The more I thought about what I would do the more it starts upset me and make it harder to do anything.
Some people are just meant to be alone I think.
Its more than I have since the begining of the year. I was going to try to do something today but I ended up not doing anything. The more I thought about what I would do the more it starts upset me and make it harder to do anything.
Some people are just meant to be alone I think.
"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"
Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.
She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.
Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.
So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.
The words come later. The impression comes first.
chancer357
Don Juan
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What does a normal person do in a day where they interact with people and not dread every second of it?
Don't you think it's strange that you can focus on something that happened 10+ years ago, from children (who were probably so insecure they just went along with the crowd), and let it affect you, but you can't take note of any of the advice being given to you here by adults who have experienced and overcome the same thing?
That tells me that you are focusing on the worst and so you literally cannot see anything positive about yourself.
To pick up on something Ross Jeffries explains, you are cursed! What I mean is that whenever you are insulted or treated badly, it embeds itself into your mind and changes your perception of yourself and your whole behaviour.
I had a problem with anorexia and body dismorphic disorder for a while. People were telling me I was thin and losing too much weight, but I couldn't believe what they said because every time I looked in the mirror I literally saw a fat person. I had lived so long letting people insult me because of being fat that my mind deluded me into thinking I was still fat. So as far as I was concerned, everybody (except the school kids who picked on me) I knew were liars.
The same thing is happening to you. You grew up being treated like you were worthless and incapable of anything, so you have made this your identity and your mind is deluding you into believing it. You think you are not as good as other people only because you believe it.
Things like this are a mental disorder and no different from hallucinations or from people who "hear" voices. It's very real to them so they can't possibly believe that it's all in their head.
Your life is not the cause of your negativity, it's the result. Once you change your state of mind, your life will change with it.
PuertoRican_Lover
Banned
You are obviously the source of that dread!! Get over it and embrace humanity for what it is/ what we are!!
WestCoaster
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- May 8, 2003
- Messages
- 2,028
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- 31
Chancer -- READ THIS!
This is a must-read:
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?threadid=54270
A man on the brink of suicide read sosuave.com and became a man of action! Now look at his life. Take it a step at a time and force yourself outside of your comfort zone, which is really a depression zone.
Just little things make the difference. I've been working out a lot more (I should've done more years ago; I was a college athlete and let myself slip too much), and not only have I lost weight, but I'm feeling good, too.
I go to the gym with a smile on my face, talk to people, and stay positive. I've met quite a few women this way (like Allen Thompson on this site says, being a cynic isn't attractive).
So read the above post, step outside your comfort zone, and try to be positive. Who cares what others think of you?
This is a must-read:
http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?threadid=54270
A man on the brink of suicide read sosuave.com and became a man of action! Now look at his life. Take it a step at a time and force yourself outside of your comfort zone, which is really a depression zone.
Just little things make the difference. I've been working out a lot more (I should've done more years ago; I was a college athlete and let myself slip too much), and not only have I lost weight, but I'm feeling good, too.
I go to the gym with a smile on my face, talk to people, and stay positive. I've met quite a few women this way (like Allen Thompson on this site says, being a cynic isn't attractive).
So read the above post, step outside your comfort zone, and try to be positive. Who cares what others think of you?
suavedave
Senior Don Juan
:/
This is about seducing women ... we will offer solutions to women problems but you are seeking help for something different, something that can be sought elsewhere. When you get yourself in shape let's hear about the big change that will happen :/
This is about seducing women ... we will offer solutions to women problems but you are seeking help for something different, something that can be sought elsewhere. When you get yourself in shape let's hear about the big change that will happen :/
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.