"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
27 and nothing
- Thread starter chancer357
- Start date
"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"
You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.
She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.
Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.
Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.
chancer357
Don Juan
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- Jan 3, 2004
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Nothing has changed really. If anything I've lost any shread of hope I had left. The only reason I'm even posting this is because I don't seem to be able to sleep for more than 4 hours on a good night.
I've a full time professional career. I'm not going to be going back to school, getting jobs bagging grocieries or waiting tables in a bar.
Working out, bulking up, etc. isn't happening. Having an eating disorder makes that a whole other problem.
I'm not interested in spirtuality. I don't believe there is any kind of God despite years of parochial school.
I pretty much just give up. Theres nothing worth saving anyway. There is no reason for any girl to ever be interested in me.
Its ironic when you think about it.. it is a problem with life overall not just problems meeting people. Supposedly just enjoying your own life and doing own thing is supposed to be the key to meeting girls (or so one of the theories goes) But its the lack of any kind of relationship that completely destroyed whatever was left of this "life".
Feeling good about anything I do, smiling at girl without being ashamed, smiling at all - its a fairy tale to me now. Even if I could get to that point, its so far away, so impossible that it seems pointless. The time it would take, the struggle to get there. And where would I be? I wouldn't even be at step 1. Just doing that is nothing, its not even scratching the surface of meeting a person or begining anything.
With any luck I'll be killed in a car accident or something soon. Too afraid and ashamed to find help, or to actually end it myself. Otherwise I probably would have killed myself by now.
I've a full time professional career. I'm not going to be going back to school, getting jobs bagging grocieries or waiting tables in a bar.
Working out, bulking up, etc. isn't happening. Having an eating disorder makes that a whole other problem.
I'm not interested in spirtuality. I don't believe there is any kind of God despite years of parochial school.
I pretty much just give up. Theres nothing worth saving anyway. There is no reason for any girl to ever be interested in me.
Its ironic when you think about it.. it is a problem with life overall not just problems meeting people. Supposedly just enjoying your own life and doing own thing is supposed to be the key to meeting girls (or so one of the theories goes) But its the lack of any kind of relationship that completely destroyed whatever was left of this "life".
Feeling good about anything I do, smiling at girl without being ashamed, smiling at all - its a fairy tale to me now. Even if I could get to that point, its so far away, so impossible that it seems pointless. The time it would take, the struggle to get there. And where would I be? I wouldn't even be at step 1. Just doing that is nothing, its not even scratching the surface of meeting a person or begining anything.
With any luck I'll be killed in a car accident or something soon. Too afraid and ashamed to find help, or to actually end it myself. Otherwise I probably would have killed myself by now.
You're no different than anyone else...you have more in common with most people than you think. You think you're the only one going through this?
Nah, you'd be wrong..see..you're so wrong because so many people have been in your situation before and turned it ALL completely around.
I'm not too sure what to say, but if you just 'think' in your mind that it's impossible...then well...it will be impossible...On the other hand, if you consciously decide to change what you think about and what you believe, then you can actually change.
What, you think you don't deserve to **** chicks? WTF...man, that's the screwed up thinking...You're like anyone else...you need to be happy too ya know...why are you trying to make this out to be some huge battle?
Here is another Imortant point...
That's crazy dude...I don't care what you look like..you have a right to smile at anyone, let alone some girl...Girls like attention dude....doesn't matter who they are, they like it...Just force yourself to smile and keep walking past...do that often.
Eventually you'll get used to it. Then eventually ask them what time it is some crap like that. Then walk away. Keep doing that for a few weeks/months...Do whatever it takes to adapt.
You can change!!! So many people have been in your situation and are doing really well...You have all the resources to change, you got DJism, mASF, and you got access to public libraries where you can learn how to motivate yourself etc. You got so much chances to improve yourself. Why not fully commit to it?
It's always gonna painful for a lil while when you learn new things and try to apply them..but each time you face that pain, you get a bit stronger and you can handle more and thus take more risks...but you gotta have a go and get out there.
TIme is ticking away...do a few things and keep the momentum rolling
FratAndDiddy
Senior Don Juan
cheer up bro
what i've read has been nothing but good advice thrown at you. all your friends here are trying to help you and just about every angle of great advice has been offered.
every male who comes to this site has been clobbered my women. we come here to read, offer advice, and try to improve ourselves. you also came to this site to seek self improvement, so your thinking must not be totally negative.
my advice to you is to download this thread to a copier, print it out, sit down and give it a good reading.
i notice that you do come back and post in this thread you started so something has to be soaking into you so far.
the ability to change MUST start with you. whether it be spiritual or physical, YOU must make the first move.
what i've read has been nothing but good advice thrown at you. all your friends here are trying to help you and just about every angle of great advice has been offered.
every male who comes to this site has been clobbered my women. we come here to read, offer advice, and try to improve ourselves. you also came to this site to seek self improvement, so your thinking must not be totally negative.
my advice to you is to download this thread to a copier, print it out, sit down and give it a good reading.
i notice that you do come back and post in this thread you started so something has to be soaking into you so far.
the ability to change MUST start with you. whether it be spiritual or physical, YOU must make the first move.
"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"
I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.
The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.
Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.
FlyGuy
Master Don Juan
OK man, trust me when I say that I was exactly where you are at not too long ago. When you contemplate life down to that level, you are faced with only 2 options:
1) End it.
2) Move on with life, knowing that you will die anyway so why rush it? If there really is no afterlife, no God (at least not the way most people think of God), etc. then why not just enjoy yourself while you're alive? If you aren't going to end it, then there is absolutely NO REASON to be miserable while you still inhabit this world.
I still struggle with my spirituality because I don't believe ANY of the world religions have the right answer. That has been the most difficult thing for me to deal with in life. You start to ask yourself if all the BS is worth it... what the point of life is, etc. and if you don't have any firm beliefs then it is very easy to take a cynical, hopeless viewpoint. But the only truth is that NOBODY KNOWS what the truth is. Maybe this life is pointless, maybe there is no God. Or maybe there is a God and we're going to hell
In the end, there is nothing we will be able to say to you that will get you out of your hole. Nobody can help you but YOU. That is the first thing you have to realize if you really want to change. My mistake was that I waited so long for someone to help me, to say the right thing to snap me out of depression.
Either get busy living or get busy dying.
EternalBachelor
Don Juan
Hi Chancer. I really feel for you. I used to feel exactly how you did a few years ago.
The advice the guys have given is excellent and you should really read over it.
You should read a book called "Success through a Positive Mental Attitude" by Napoleon Hill and Clement Stone.
Unfortunately it sounds like you have a negative mental attitude at the moment and are thinking in terms of failure, self-pity, fear etc. What you need to learn is to cast off these negative thoughts and force yourself to act as if you are happy and cheerful, and challenge all your negative thoughts and replace them with positive affirmations.
For a start:
1) Do some charity/volunteer work where you are helping people. This will get your mind off your problems and through helping others you will feel useful and wanted.
2) Take a pride in your appearance. Most people think they are ugly, I can almost guarantee that you are a perfectly normal looking guy that a good proportion of women would find attractive. Get a haircut, wear good clothes, hold your head high
3) Practice talking positively and cheerfully and smiling a lot. Pretend you are happy and you will feel happy. You would be surprised how much more receptive people will be if you smile at them, compliment them and take an interest in them. Most people are scared of rejection and if you go around with a frown on your face then they probably are scared you don't like them
4) Feel the fear and do it anyway. Nobody can tell how scared you are inside-they are too selfabsorbed. Talk to people-they won't bite your head off. Compliment them. When you realise you can get positive responses from people you will feel much better about yourself
The advice the guys have given is excellent and you should really read over it.
You should read a book called "Success through a Positive Mental Attitude" by Napoleon Hill and Clement Stone.
Unfortunately it sounds like you have a negative mental attitude at the moment and are thinking in terms of failure, self-pity, fear etc. What you need to learn is to cast off these negative thoughts and force yourself to act as if you are happy and cheerful, and challenge all your negative thoughts and replace them with positive affirmations.
For a start:
1) Do some charity/volunteer work where you are helping people. This will get your mind off your problems and through helping others you will feel useful and wanted.
2) Take a pride in your appearance. Most people think they are ugly, I can almost guarantee that you are a perfectly normal looking guy that a good proportion of women would find attractive. Get a haircut, wear good clothes, hold your head high
3) Practice talking positively and cheerfully and smiling a lot. Pretend you are happy and you will feel happy. You would be surprised how much more receptive people will be if you smile at them, compliment them and take an interest in them. Most people are scared of rejection and if you go around with a frown on your face then they probably are scared you don't like them
4) Feel the fear and do it anyway. Nobody can tell how scared you are inside-they are too selfabsorbed. Talk to people-they won't bite your head off. Compliment them. When you realise you can get positive responses from people you will feel much better about yourself
PuertoRican_Lover
Banned
Chancer, there are many people who are 67 years old and never had anything - you have 40 years to do something about it!
Talk with others locally who have the same worries as you and see if you can work together overcoming your woes.
Even if you don't believe in God you still have a non-physical side that should be sought and nourished. We are more than flesh and bone!! Man does not live by bread alone - there is more to life than just surviving!
Talk with others locally who have the same worries as you and see if you can work together overcoming your woes.
Even if you don't believe in God you still have a non-physical side that should be sought and nourished. We are more than flesh and bone!! Man does not live by bread alone - there is more to life than just surviving!
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chancer357
Don Juan
- Joined
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There aren't any people around here who have been in this situation. I don't know anyone who never had a relationship of any kind, with any girl who is anywhere near my age.
As long as there are more attractive (which is essentially everyone) people around who are more comfortable in thier own skin who have any level of confidence (also anyone else) then I'm just screwed. I would need to have some girl talk me, and because someone put them up to it. I just don't have any confidence to do anything on my own at this point. I'm well past the point of being able to help myself have anything that would resemble a normal life
As long as there are more attractive (which is essentially everyone) people around who are more comfortable in thier own skin who have any level of confidence (also anyone else) then I'm just screwed. I would need to have some girl talk me, and because someone put them up to it. I just don't have any confidence to do anything on my own at this point. I'm well past the point of being able to help myself have anything that would resemble a normal life
FratAndDiddy
Senior Don Juan
it's really hard to help you if you keep talking about giving up.
where do you live?
tell us and hopefully someone around that area can get you out of the house and get you started and keep you motivated.
where do you live?
tell us and hopefully someone around that area can get you out of the house and get you started and keep you motivated.
"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."
Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.
Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?
You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.
Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.
"looks"? You're worried about your looks?
Please read Psycho Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz...(it's the book that got me to change) and I think you would really enjoy it
I still remember the day I found out about that book, and how I literally ran to the train station to buy it so that the book store would still be open..
This book is all about self-image....and "looks" in a sense because the guy who wrote the book was a plastic surgeon..One of the things he noticed was that after plastic surgery, some people 'changed', while others did not..
You will find this book interesting, that I am certain of. You can read a preview of the book here.
EternalBachelor
Don Juan
I second the recommendation for Psycho Cybernetics.
Read it and really apply what you learn and have faith that it can totally transform your life.
And quit saying you have no confidence. Just do it anyway. Confidence comes from doing something over and over. Are you confident that you can tie your shoelaces? Of course because you have done it millions of times. Same with talking to women.
Go to a church or volunteer and start conversations with women. (In those sort of areas women will tend to start conversations with you anyway). Give them a sincere compliment, or ask them some questions such as "How long have you been volunteering?" "What do you like to do in your free time etc?
And forget about all these people being more attractive and more confident than you. Most people are just putting on an act and are probably just as nervous as you are. And there are lots of single girls around who would love to talk to a guy like you. All you have to do is introduce yourself and set the ball rolling.
Read it and really apply what you learn and have faith that it can totally transform your life.
And quit saying you have no confidence. Just do it anyway. Confidence comes from doing something over and over. Are you confident that you can tie your shoelaces? Of course because you have done it millions of times. Same with talking to women.
Go to a church or volunteer and start conversations with women. (In those sort of areas women will tend to start conversations with you anyway). Give them a sincere compliment, or ask them some questions such as "How long have you been volunteering?" "What do you like to do in your free time etc?
And forget about all these people being more attractive and more confident than you. Most people are just putting on an act and are probably just as nervous as you are. And there are lots of single girls around who would love to talk to a guy like you. All you have to do is introduce yourself and set the ball rolling.
mrbrooklyn
Don Juan
Where do you live? What do you do for a living? WHat about yyour family? The key to having good relationships with people you don't know starts with having decent relationship with you own blood. Do you have male firends? Send me an e-mail, I would like to talk to you off line.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Hybrid2
New Member
I got the same problem.I`m 25(but i`m a bit younger in my mind.)
And I never got a date or even kissed a girl.
but that could change is I finaly got the gots to ask out,this girl that I know. :-D
I went to see her at her store just to ask her out once.but thing out of my control keep geting in the way.I gess it was just not the right time. :-/
And everytime I try,I freeze or I have doubt.(Do she like me or not?)
At least for the first time in my life a girl talk to me.
And I never got a date or even kissed a girl.
but that could change is I finaly got the gots to ask out,this girl that I know. :-D
I went to see her at her store just to ask her out once.but thing out of my control keep geting in the way.I gess it was just not the right time. :-/
And everytime I try,I freeze or I have doubt.(Do she like me or not?)
At least for the first time in my life a girl talk to me.
"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"
When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.
Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.
Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.
The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.
chancer357
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
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- 139
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If I could have just done it, I would have. The truth is the hard I try to do it, the further away I ever get from being able to do it.
I don't know how to explain it any better than that. If it were something I could just do, and just change and not have to live as a shell of a human being I'd have done it.
ShortTimer
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2002
- Messages
- 917
- Reaction score
- 1
From my personal experience I can tell you that if you're looking for sudden change it won't happen. Confucius says: "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." If you're not paying attention, what that means is that your progress can be slow and sometimes you'll want to give up, but you'll never get there if you don't start walking.
Try small changes in your life first, small goals you know you can commit to and achieve. From my own life I can tell you I've tried to improve myself by running. A year ago it was a struggle to run a quarter mile, when I started I ran a quarter mile five days a week and did that for a month, then I upped it to 1/2 mile for a month, then 3/4 mile. I'm up to one and 1/2 miles I run five days a week. Had I tried to run that amount the first day I would have given up because it would have been too hard.
Maybe you don't have any goals for running, but I think you get the idea from my example. Start with small things you can change about yourself and use them to springboard to larger and larger things to make yourself better. Sure it may take a while, but isn't the alterative worse?
Try small changes in your life first, small goals you know you can commit to and achieve. From my own life I can tell you I've tried to improve myself by running. A year ago it was a struggle to run a quarter mile, when I started I ran a quarter mile five days a week and did that for a month, then I upped it to 1/2 mile for a month, then 3/4 mile. I'm up to one and 1/2 miles I run five days a week. Had I tried to run that amount the first day I would have given up because it would have been too hard.
Maybe you don't have any goals for running, but I think you get the idea from my example. Start with small things you can change about yourself and use them to springboard to larger and larger things to make yourself better. Sure it may take a while, but isn't the alterative worse?
Peter Parker
Don Juan
Dude I’m kind of in the same situation with women. It can be very depressing thinking that you will never have a relationship on that level. You have to realize that you’re keeping yourself incomplete by just thinking it. You’re a human being just like the rest of us and of course you’re capable of doing anything. Your probable introverted just like me and constantly fantasying about how great life would be with a girlfriend. Your thinking patterns have been negative so long that any action you take is automatically interpreted as negative. The last couple of days I’ve done my best to control my internal dialogue and I feel pretty great.
First completely stop fantasying about women in all situations.
Next, pretend you’re a Buddhist monk, whenever your leave the houses try your best to not hold a single thought in your head. Focus on breathing, general noise, and general visuals.
First completely stop fantasying about women in all situations.
Next, pretend you’re a Buddhist monk, whenever your leave the houses try your best to not hold a single thought in your head. Focus on breathing, general noise, and general visuals.
Golden Arms
Master Don Juan
You've gotten some really good advice in this thread. What, if anything, have actually you tried to do to improve your situation ? Things will not change if you do nothing.
"If you put in what you always put in you will always get what you always got"
Oh and you don't have to believe in god to have spirituality.
"If you put in what you always put in you will always get what you always got"
Oh and you don't have to believe in god to have spirituality.
chancer357
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
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- 139
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- 0
I haven't been able to do any of the things that were suggested.
Any of the "just do it" type of advice is useless to me. I can't just do it and thats the whole problem.
I'm too ashamed and embarassed to get help from a doctor.
Theres nothing left for me to enjoy and just focus on doing myself. The hopelessness that whole situation created overshadows everything I do.
I try to do anything and I end up just not being able to do it and I feel worse and just end up with a bigger barrier to over come.
Any of the "just do it" type of advice is useless to me. I can't just do it and thats the whole problem.
I'm too ashamed and embarassed to get help from a doctor.
Theres nothing left for me to enjoy and just focus on doing myself. The hopelessness that whole situation created overshadows everything I do.
I try to do anything and I end up just not being able to do it and I feel worse and just end up with a bigger barrier to over come.
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.