10 Years On

[JustDoItAlways]

Great post Rollo Tomassi.

I missed it when you first posted, thanks to Oxide for the bump.

I think most guys missed the central message in the original post though. "Be a man", a masculine man, the opposite of feminine woman, what women need is a real man, is the message they should get from it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Wow. Bring this back from the graveyard 'eh? Good I'm glad you're sifting back through my writing. When the book comes out you'll be glad you did.

OXIDE, what's a grey area? Really? I take care of the outside of the house and Mrs. Tomassi takes care of the inside. It's funny you should bring this up now. Last weekend I uprooted two very annoying shrubs in my front yard. They had long, deep roots and were an absolute b!tch to pull out. I had to cut roots in the ground and carefully untangle them from plants I wanted to keep. I got dirty because it rains a lot here in Florida, but it was great. I sweated like a pig and I still have this one fukking bottle brush tree to pull if I can get to it when it's not swarming with these unusually large bees.

Oh wait, now that I'm thinking of it, maybe I should have my wife pull this damn thing out when she wakes up from her sleep since she sleeps most of the day on the weekends as she works a grave yard shift Friday through Sunday at a local hospital. I mean sh!t, I shouldn't have to do all of this out door crap right? Come to think of it I just repaired her 4 Runner's brakes too, so I guess it's time she pulled her own weight right? I'm mean hell I make 75% of our combined income as it is on top of all this sh! t too right? As soon as I'm done helping my 8 y.o. daughter finish her latest book report so she can maintain her A+ grade average in school, I'll be sure to march right up to her and make my case.

OXIDE, EVERYTHING is a grey area now. Mrs. Tomassi can cook, but rarely does because life takes priority more often than not. I can cook too when I'm motivated to do it, but there are some great restaurants around here that make it much more convenient to go there to eat if we want a special meal. My wife HATES doing laundry, all I ever hear is how it's this never ending struggle against the eternal forces of dirty clothes, but you know what? She does laundry inspite of it. I fuggin' hate mowing my big ass lawns that never stop growing in Florida too. You know what I do? I crack open two Miller Lite tall boys load 'em up in the tractor's drink holders and go out and mow for 2 solid hours. As much as it sucks, I wouldn't DREAM of allowing any man or woman do this for me. I claimed this job. I claimed my garage and my art studio as my 'man space' and she can decorate the rest of the house as she sees fit. Fair trade as far as I'm concerned, but my territory is undisputable. I take over what I think is my responsibility and she takes her own as well.

How many PUA do you suppose have done their own mowing or weeding lately? How many can even repair their own cars? How many do you suppose have had fathers that taught them how to do their own plumbing or electrical work? How many would even take the initiative to learn it on their own rather than call up a repairman or lawn guy to pay for them to do these jobs? Fukk that!

I make more money than Mrs. Tomassi in my career, but this wasn't always the case. When we met she made more than I dreamed of making at the time, but she was supportive of my ambitions. She knew it was my place to be earning the lions share and now I make more than $30K more than she, and she's a medical professional. She supported me while I achieved my eduactional and career goals, she was encouraging, and there was no doubt for either of us that my increase as a man would benefit not only us but our family's and our daughter too.

Again, I'll state that the sexes were meant to be complimentary to each other, not adversarial. In any broken marriage, in any relational strife, you will find one common factor, the genders are opposed in an attempt to arrive at some kind of egalitarian equalty. THIS IS BULLSH!T! Men and women are certainly flexible but we are not equal, nor are we able to make up for personal deficits that the other could make up for. We are stronger together than the sum of our parts. I compensate for my wife's weaknesses and vice versa. But that's not what makes us a good pairing. What makes us a good pairing is that we Fukking recognize this and appreciate it.

 

[ElChoclo]

Two things which I think I should have brought up when this thread originated.

1 I disagree that you can be just as much attracted to a woman sexually after 10 years as you can when you just start out together. I think that in most instances, most men start to become bored after maybe 6 months or less.

2 When you said your wife still gives you 5hit tests just to prove to herself that she chose the right man, it made me think that the institution just isn't worth the trouble. If a wife has to convince herself regularly that she got a good deal, the whole institution seems like more trouble than its worth, and even you RT, concede that a man doesn't get anything more out of it than he could get if he was single, unless he wants to raise kids.

 

[Nasman]

I agree about being 28 before he even thinks about getting married. That is when I started to kind of mature. Before that ur just too young.

 

[speed dawg]

I crack open two Miller Lite tall boys load 'em up in the tractor's drink holders and go out and mow for 2 solid hours.

WTF??? You better break out the push mower.

Yeah and Orlando heat sucks. I was at Disneyworld in October, still hot as h*ll.

 

[WestCoaster]

The first post here should be in the DJ Bible. Most men I know can't define what in the world they search for in a marriage mate. They spend more time in choosing their car than their woman -- count me in this bunch pre-sosuave.com.

The thinking usually goes like this, "She's pretty, we had sex, let's get married."

It often doesn't get much deeper than that.

Flashback 10 years or so, a good friend of mine was engaged to a single mommy. She was not pretty, not very nice, and I stupidly didn't say get out of it to him, I let him roll with it.

His passion is coaching high school baseball. At the time he was engaged he was coaching a small high school. We go out to pizza and the fiance says, "After we're married, there's no more coaching."

I was an AFC at the time and I let this statement go without a response, I should've stood up for him, or at least told him privately to dump her fat a$$. Ten years later ... I see this guy two weeks ago, he's going through the divorce with this woman.

He could never define why he wanted to be married to her, etc. ... they adopted a child and now custody is a mess, too. I wouldn't trade his life for mine any day.

She wanted to take away his passion, red flag.

Back to Rollo's post, it's golden and should be read by all single people as well as marrieds.

 

[wayword]

"After we're married, there's no more coaching."

Goes to show, you almost HAVE TO BE AN AFC to choose to get married these days!!! Because, more than likely it means you are submitting to some dumb bych's whims like a yesman doormat...

Fact is, marriage is now obsolete for men (AWESOME READ!!!) from FEMINISM & the SEXUAL REVOLUTION! :kick:

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

It's like I am livid over the idea of having limitations when it comes to my life - I don't want stupid decorations that I don't like, I don't want to go to Sherri's baby shower because "I told everyone you will come" and I definitely don't want to be the tired overworked guy who can only mutter "Yes Dear, Anything you want, dear" just to stop his wife from b1tching while allowing her every whim.

Now how do you deal with that?!

I don't have to handle any of that OXIDE, it wouldn't even occur to my wife to ask me to go to a baby shower nor presume to tell anyone I would come along. My wife and I have our own identities. Our names don't blend into each other to make a single entity, like too many married couples I know. We are intimately connected, but separate identities. OXIDE, you're too young now to even be concerned with being livid about women hanging up pantyhose in your shower yet (or post on the Mature board either I might add), why waste the mental effort? Don't move in with anyone and don't let anyone move in, simple as that.

When you said your wife still gives you 5hit tests just to prove to herself that she chose the right man, it made me think that the institution just isn't worth the trouble. If a wife has to convince herself regularly that she got a good deal, the whole institution seems like more trouble than its worth, and even you RT, concede that a man doesn't get anything more out of it than he could get if he was single, unless he wants to raise kids.

True. There is nothing a man can achieve in marriage that he could not being single. Women's primary motivations are security and sex, and in this order. Remember, security can come in different forms too. Men's primary motivators are sex and security, also in this order. The contradiction in marrige then is that a man must necessarily abandon his primary motivator to satisfy a woman's primary motivator. Since men produce 17 times the amount of testosterone women do, they simply cannot appreciate the significance of this sacrifice in marriage.

So is it worth it? Hard to say. With a woman who makes an effort to understand this paradox and recognizes it, even peripherally, with appreciation then yes, there are opportunities for men to mature in ways they couldn't while single. But again these are esoteric benefits to someone not married or someone trapped in a 'slave contract' marriage. The lion's share of my understanding men and women came from me being married and becoming sensitive and observant of others dillemmas. I like to think that 10 years of marriage and removing myself from the game gives me a bird's eye view of how marriage, dating, the biology of it and the psychology of it interact. There are internal rewards in marriage that don't seem as valuable as the external ones available being single. Does that make marriage more appealing? Probably not, and it's certainly not what motivates men or woemn to agree to marriage, but they do exist. I should also add that all the internal rewards still come at a cost and are only available in marriages where both genders compliment each other rather than compete with each other.

And again, yes, a marriage is one long ass sh!t test. I got asked about this in a PM recently and I'm composing thread now on the latent purposes of women's constant sh!t tests, but lets just say men wouldn't want it any other way really. From a woman's point of view, a sh!t test is a necessary, covert communications tool for herself (and the guy) to either filter out 'lesser men' when she's single or to remind herself that she made the right choice when she's married. While this seems like a lot of needless friction to guys, it's really what keeps us motivated if we're up to the challenge and our women are worth the effort. Always remember that sh!t tests work both ways. When a man is confronted with one - assuming he can recognize it as such - the obvious reaction is to become exasperated by it. If you can stay in control of your own emotional responses (what she's looking for actually), with practice you can use a sh!t test gauge where your woman is at emotionally. This is usefull in many respects, you may even decide she isn't worth the effort to address depending on the severity of the test - thus it backfires. However all of this depends upon the man staying the PRIZE, staying the Prince and innately commanding (not demanding) his wife's respect.

 

[MatureDJ]

Funny, I just read in Newsweek about the post-wedding "depression" (pleeeeeeeeese!) women are getting after lavish weddings.

Here is the article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14096481/

BTW, that has to be the biggest feet I've ever seen on a woman.

 

[MatureDJ]

I have seen hundreds of fat army wives over here...the husbands are in shape due to the military and the wives just get fat.

The main reason that military wives are fat is because when men are about to get into the military, they look for a woman at a lower sexual market value because they know that such a woman are eager to get married, would put up with the military lifestyle, not be hit on while they are away. They figure that when deployed, they are not going to have many opportunities. These women are genetically less attractive to begin with.

 

[PRMoon]

I like how rollo and des tag team post on the MM board. It kind of renews that sense of community that is lost on the main forum. This was a great read from start to current and shows that there's people who are genuine about giving QUALITY advice still around here.

Rock on guys

 

[MatureDJ]

Pvssy is never a good bet; masturbation is preferable to making bad long term decisions.

Well, I would put sexual services into the same category. This is why a guy like Charlie Sheen paid for sex - "so she'll go home".

When a man can control his sexual urges outside of women in a relationship, then he can think clearly about getting a good woman.

 

[WestCoaster]

My friend who got divorced from the fat/ugly wife, who said, "No more coaching," when they're married?

Since he's now divorced guess what kind of job he recently landed? Yep, coaching high school baseball.

Freaking amazing he had to go through 10 years of sh-t and divorce an ugly woman regain his passion.

He lives in Idaho, she moved to the Seattle area ... they have to drop the adopted kid off in Central Washington, halfway. In Northwest terms that means a 300-mile round trip drive every couple weeks.

Ugh! Puke! ... And I think I'll kick myself in the a$$ right now. I didn't say anything when I saw the trouble spots. I know, it's up to him to recognize the red flags but a good friend should speak out. SH-T!!

 

[speed dawg]

I didn't say anything when I saw the trouble spots. I know, it's up to him to recognize the red flags but a good friend should speak out. SH-T!!

My friends never listen. They think I'm the one who's wrong. But, we're young, and they haven't had a chance to get divorced and see that I was right, yet.

 

[penkitten]

But what happens with stuff that is in the grey area? For example, what if she doesn't like cooking? Or if she has a higher paying job, or if she doesnt like doing laundry?

laundry is my enemy and yet i conquer it by doing at least one load every night. it never ends and is never completely done. just as i put the last items in and walk away, when i come back someone else has dumped a new load for me to do.

 

[penkitten]

But see, I don't want her to decorate my bathrooms with stupid towels I can't touch and scented candles I am not allowed to light.

then when it comes to living with someone, tell them up front that you dont ever want to feel like you live in a museum, you want to be able to use everything in your house a purpose.
in our house, everyone is free to use the hand towels and when they are dirty, i put a clean one up and go wash the dirty ones. i have candles everywhere and we use them all. it makes our house smell good.

I don't want stupid decorations that I don't like, I don't want to go to Sherri's baby shower because "I told everyone you will come" !

havent you heard of people decorating their home together?
and dude, men dont go to babyshowers. ever. i mean never. its unheard of.
however, if your guy buddies want to bring you a baby bottle and a beer or a pack of diapers and a case of beer at some local tavern, accept and go watch the game with them.

 

[azanon]

The first post here should be in the DJ Bible. Most men I know can't define what in the world they search for in a marriage mate. They spend more time in choosing their car than their woman -- count me in this bunch pre-sosuave.com.

The thinking usually goes like this, "She's pretty, we had sex, let's get married."

It often doesn't get much deeper than that.

I agree folks this is a sad way of thinking. My advice for you young guys is this; if some of the basic premises that this thread are true for your woman (ie: all she has to offer you is sex, and to raise your kids), then why marry her? I agree, if you're offering the lions share of contributions, then why just take her for sex? I'd go so far to say that its a bad move to marry a woman like this in every case. Per the whole DJ mindset, women will give you sex with or without a ring so why do it?

That being said, the 1950s called; they want their typical marriage financial setup back. Guys, what kind of women are you surrounding yourself with anyway? The ones i mingle with usually have a great job, complete with health care, life, dental, etc. Heck, in the office I work, probably 40% are women, and most of them (except the secretary) make over 60K a year. So, what i'm getting at, is this idea of "the man" offering the security is outdated if you surround yourself with the woman of the same calibur I do, and only true if the only women you are dating/or looking for as potential lifelong partners only have looks going for them.

I noticed that RT mentioned that initially in his marriage, his wife made more than he did. So i had to wonder, at least at that point, how was his thought process that it was him that was offering the security? If the argument goes, "well she's the one that has the kids so she'd have to take care of them and not be able to work", I immediately wonder, what is our alternative; to knock women up outside of wedlock and not pay for them? Also, the "having to raise the kids" factor isn't as serious as one might think unless said person never heard of a daycare or a public school.

Here's my bottom line advise fellow DJ's; If your woman can't offer you at least an equal, but preferrably better, sum-total share of benefits because she is going to be your lifelong partner, then do not marry her That might sound harsh, but why do it any other way? Several of my and my wife's "couple friends" have women that have wonderful, well paying jobs. The most extreme example is my good friend who lives along the gulf coast. His wife is a surgeon and he quit his engineering job to become a parapsychologist (for fun mostly) because she makes so much money. On top of that, she actually paid for him to learn how to fly a plane and when he got his license, she bought him a cesenna.

So, i'm all onboard with the putting off dating and only using the HB 1-10 scale to have sex for years. But if you're talking about marriage, make that scale almost a tertiary indicator, and require her to be intelligent, cooking skills, and ideally already employeed bringing home a good paycheck. I'd take a HB 7, with an IQ of 140+ and a super job, over a HB10 that couldn't spell her name, much less cook. Remember, in a marriage, you have to live wiht and talk to this person for the rest of your life. Marriage is forever so I'd marry a slam dunk or just keep dating. Raw looks is nice, but the total person is what i'd focus on when looking for your partner.

Azanon

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Heck, in the office I work, probably 40% are women, and most of them (except the secretary) make over 60K a year. So, what i'm getting at, is this idea of "the man" offering the security is outdated,..

You're making a very common mistake here in assuming that 'security' only encompasses finances or net worth. Security is soooo much more than just this, but it's the easiest way to think about it. Let me explain; My wife's best friend is named Krista and she's been a MRI tech and RA assistant - she makes bank at the hospital she's at. In addition to this her parents are both attorneys so she comes from a LOT of money to begin with. She owns a beautiful home in Lake Tahoe and has a brand new SUV, both paid for. She doesn't lack for financial security, but she's consistently dated hot snowboarder type guys who she'll move in to her house for 6-8 months at a time until they (predictably) become too irresponsible for her and wear out their welcome. She has a fight with them, they leave or plead their case well enough for another month and then they're out, to be replaced by another guy. This is a pattern for her because she's looking for security; not financial security, but security in the way that a Man should be able to embody - one of confidence and responsibility that's only developed from experience.

There are a lot of varieties of security, finacial being a big one, but more than this is a woman's need for security in a Man's self-confidence. Women need more than just cold cash to want to pair up with a Man. Remember that women have a laundry list of prerequisites that a guy must meet in order to receive her intimacy - financial provisioning is only one of them.

My wife stopped seeing some very wealthy doctors in order to be with me, why? Because I could be the Man that these very rich AFCs couldn't be for her. I'm 4 years younger than she is and I had zero net worth back then, but I was the one she married, why? Because I could provide a security that these guys were unable or unwilling to. Now I don't make half a million a year these days, but I'm in six figures now.

 

[azanon]

RT,

Another good post, and point by you, but I have some questions/comments.

Ok, good point, women get a lot of needs met by a solid DJ that she cannot get in any other way. I do understand that. But getting back to the essential point i was attacking, is what she is getting ("the man") from the marriage always going to be greater than what you (or anyone) could be getting coming into it? I would say to all the fellows here, try to shoot for the better end of the deal.

We think about finances though, dont we? That's certainly something we value? So if you have the opportunity to come into a marriage where you're going to benefit financially by either her having rich parents or a great job, that counts a lot in our column and is something you wouldnt have at all single.

So going on this theme, if one could add in there great cook, will do your laundry, raise kids (something already acknowledged), just help with general crap (say paying bills), etc, then a marriage could be a good deal for a man. RT, you mentioned you do outside the house, and she does inside the house. Wouldnt it suck to have to do both the outside and the inside? If you were single, you get to!

I'm trying really hard to see marriage as such a bad deal in most cases, but * sigh * it just isnt working for me. The right woman can be a great "deal" and a great asset for a man, i think. I know. And you know too, right RT?

Hey guys, and RT, i will endorse with you that it is probably a wonderful idea to date through your 20s. I was always sold on that. I just say discard with caution a really good keeper if you happen to meet her when you're young. A wonderful woman is worth her weight in gold.

I wonder if we have anyone here who visits this forum that is living with regret right now because he discarded a wonderful woman on the grouds of being a young "player". Anyone want to acknowledge that?

 

[wayword]

she's consistently dated hot snowboarder type guys who she'll move in to her house for 6-8 months at a time until they (predictably) become too irresponsible for her and wear out their welcome. She has a fight with them, they leave or plead their case well enough for another month and then they're out, to be replaced by another guy. This is a pattern for her because she's looking for security; not financial security, but security in the way that a Man should be able to embody - one of confidence and responsibility that's only developed from experience.

Wrong, she's simply looking for a HOT GUY, not security. She'd be happy if he could just pull his own weight at least - and not totally suck her dry. Although, even that is too much to ask for a HOT "K-Fed" GUY. Call it the Britney Spears syndrome...but this is a case-in-point of how much LOOKS alone MATTER to hot women these days.