High specs but zero matches - Dating Apps

[Cheeky_James]

don’t take me wrong, the guy is right that without makeup she is a 5

The issue Is that he does not want to admit that if you put nice clothes on her makeup she can easily pass as a 6/7. If she does some surgeries here and there she can be an 8

if we look at the kardashians, their natural beauty is not there. At best a 5. But when you add makeup + clothes + surgeries you end up having a sex bomb

Also guys if they would learn how to groom themselves + have a nice style and so on they could get slightly better fundamentals

Kim kardashian with little to no makeup

IMG 7871 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 7871 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

Kim kardashian with makeup

IMG 7872 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 7872 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

if you ask me, it looks like 2 different girls when you compare little to no makeup vs makeup

I agree. I mentioned it to him on his other thread about issues w rating. Do we rate women looking at their best or at their plainest ? If being that next to ALWAYS women present their best, dressed up beautified selves. Duh.

btw speaking of professional athletes, I’ll drop a brag..
10 years ago back in my PUA heyday I met a German ex pro tennis player at a bar here in Aus.. and fvcked her on a ONS.

…using some (wait for it…) improvised Speed Seducfion conversational stuff !

she was great!!!
My claim to fame

 

[Cheeky_James]

@Bigpapa
that sucks man.
For sure can happen .. some chicks get touchy /rejected when contact drops for a few days.or that there is not enough chasing happening.

.Others get annoyed when there’s “too much” contact! but it’s hard to tell which ones will be which sometimes.
Then there is the illness /life drama reasons for stall outs and 180s like that.

its hard to know wtf is going on w some ch1cks.

Edit; I’ve had a few that want to crawl inside my mind and psychoanalyse me before they feel enough “connection” to spread their legs .. for casual!

 

[Solomon]

I've written about this in the past but I believe it is getting worse and worse as the years go on

Fundamentally app dating is viewed within the femosphere as bottom of the barrel stuff , "shopping the clearance isle" so to speak

It's the same for men but men will tolerate a lot more on the apps in the hope of a crumb of pu$$y plus its very very low effort which men love

What you end up with is a sub section of women that are on there either to window shop or because they are not getting men in real life and swathes of sexless desperate men making as little effort as possible trying to get laid

I personally haven't used a dating app in about 3 years and when I was using them I can't say any of the women I met were of any particular quality in fact some of the strangest women I have ever met in my life came from the apps ( although some of that was poor screening from me )

I think everyone like the idea of the dating app but in reality two complete strangers trying to communicate through digital profiles often leads to absolute nowhere

In my opinion, dating apps have gone off a cliff since COVID, but particularly over the last three years. The amount of women oversharing trauma, mental health issues, and unsolicited sexual history/Exes is at a crazy all time high.

It's like women since COVID have forgotten that oversharing trauma, exes, and even sexual history is not attractive at all. Pre-COVID, women would keep that stuff hidden until they knew they had a guy. Now they put it out in the open. The lack of self-awareness is striking. Telling a guy this stuff on a first date or even before, do they not realize it would scare a man off? And then you realize that women have so many options that eventually some guy will put up with all that in hopes of getting some consistent ass. But a guy who has self-respect or is looking for someone healthy will run away from a woman like that.

Honestly, I don't blame men for not making effort, and why should they? Various studies show that 90% of first dates don't lead to 2nd dates. Dating is expensive, even a coffee date (if you include the price of gas), and the likelihood of getting flaked or ghosted on is at an all time high. So why would any guy bother after dealing with that?

it is but a Game to me the apps.
I play it very much like a video game and (try) to attach no value to matches and rejections.
Chicks can unmatch out of the blue and it’s “meh” for me now.
“Likes” are real tho. It’s nice to get likes
But I do see your point,
And I’d never expect and LTR to come about off an app for me. So mayhe that’s the right call then for him then. idk. That’s a brutal amount of rejections.

YOU GET IT!

Apps are not meant to be taken seriously and you have to be RUTHLESS with your tactics. That nice guy cupcaking $hit is for the birds in 2026.

I remember in 2023 I was arguing with some buddies about online dating. One didn't have a clue what he was talking about because at the time he had never done it. The other one was on some romcom b.s. talking about "love and vibes." He had just gotten on the apps because he broke up with his girl at the time.

Fast forward to 2024 and the same lovey-dovey guy, after a year on the apps, texted me and was like "man EFF these hoes, they on some bull****... you gotta get a rotation going and ****." His tone completely changed. If you meet the guy you would laugh cause he fit's the nerd archetype, he's a good guy but the switch-up from "Love and vibes" to "eff these girls" happened fast once he experienced the reality of online dating.

What's my point?

My point is the guy tried to be genuine, looking for an LTR, giving women the benefit of the doubt, just to get played over and over. He learned very quickly in that year that most women on dating apps are Time wasters and not LTR material, so the best you can hope for is to smash. I'm not glorifying it, but it points out the obvious: for most men, trying to find an LTR through OLD is a dummy mission.

 

[Solomon]

even outside the apps are more or less the same

difficult to actually find women that are actually nice to have around

if you want to smash you have to go through all
This garbage, but I agree. You need ruthless strategies and an iron will to cope with all the bullsh1t that is happening

the issue is that some of the guys do not get any attention, and yes it s8cks big time. But the rest who do get attention they can easily lose your sanity dealing with them

I agree mostly, but IMO meeting women outside the apps can garner far better results. I can only speak for myself, but the women I've pulled in person are far better quality (not just looks, but personality etc.) than the ones I met on apps. Heck, a girl I dated not long ago (met via social circle) told me she woulda swiped left me on a dating app

I do agree it's difficult AF now; I don't know if it's in the area I live, but the women have become extremely arrogant, jaded, and delusional. My only advice is is for a guy it's important you not only have hobbies that place you around the TYPE of women you want but a strategy to maximize your results. You really have to be tactical nowadays because if not you're wasting your time.

Easier said than done

 

[Clockwerk50]

The issue that I see at the moment with women is that nothing really makes any sense, and it can easily go from things going well to 180s turns without you as a guy doing anything wrong

and I do not know any guy ( no matter how good looking or top of the top he is ) that does not goes through the same thing

so when I hear guys complaining that the issue is that women want the top 20% and for them is super easy, I just laugh and think they are id10ts because they have no idea what they talk about and the mental fatigue that you have to go through these days with women

I do know one thing though, is that you need to push for escalation as soon as possible and be 70-80% sexual and like 20-30% into rapport building and escalate to sex as soon and as much as possible. If you go on the old way with 2-3 dates, it will rarely yield the results you expect

I think that the main reason for this women behavior stems from the fact that they are afraid of getting feelings + seeing that you are not easy to be tamed, which results in seeing you as a threat . That’s why I think sex either happens fast ( before you are seen as a threat ) either will not happen at all

My take is that when you factor in that women are rarely single in quite the same way men are, and that high-value people tend to get snatched up quickly, you realize that not only do you have a low margin for error, but you're also competing with other men in a race to the finish line. Your window of opportunity is also smaller than you might think.

I've always operated under the assumption that there's usually another guy somewhere in the picture, so realistically, you're competing with him for her attention and, for lack of a better word, trying to steal her away. The problem is that these men will often do whatever they can to keep her. Unless they give her reasons to become dissatisfied with the relationship, she has little incentive to walk away from an established relationship and deal with the uncertainty, pain, and opportunity cost of starting over with someone new.

So the game has always been about creating enough attraction and dissatisfaction with her current options that she sees you as the better alternative. The challenge is that you're competing against established relationships, emotional investments, and other men who are actively trying to maintain their position for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Jason9]

I've been on bumble and hinge dating apps and the women there are superficial, most likely judgemental.

I got loads of unattractive women match me, they will go for anything above their looks.

 

[Clockwerk50]

totally agree with you, but this would have been the case also prior to Covid

now I see a lot of bullsh1t like this becoming the norm, while prior to Covid would have been more a realistic but not that probable scenario

so I do not think is because every woman has some guy in her life, unless 5 years ago were more girls whom did not had a guy in their life in any capacity at all, and now almost all have them . Very improbable that do be the case

Things that have changed since COVID include social media, dating apps, larger social circles, marketing and entertainment, political stances, changing priorities, remote work, better commodities at home, different generation, and the ability to meet people over a much wider geographical area. All of these make it easier to keep multiple options open, seek attention and validation, and move on to someone else.

All things being equal, you'd think the desire to pursue someone would be mutual. Yet, for some reason, it seems women are less likely to chase men and, in some cases, more selective about their choices.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Is it the mirror selfie as first picture?

yes. the fact that you'd have this as your first picture, let alone on your profile at all, tells me all your photos are bad.

i will continue to maintain that the primary reason 90% of men struggle on dating apps is because they have awful photos. an average looking guy with really good photos will do better than a chad with bad photos.

 

[Gamisch]

an average looking guy with really good photos will do better than a chad with bad photos.

Nah bro...that last sentence is just cope..

An absolute Chris Hempsworth- esqeu Chad , being a ....laywer / über entrepreneur/ baller with status can have terrible pictures and still get 1000x the amount of dates that average men get..

This is also proven multiple times . There been experiments where they let Chad say the most vile shyte and yet women will go. I wished you were right but unfortunately facts don't lie..women ain't that stupid...thats like saying a fat woman with good pictures will do better than a hb9,5 Stacy with bad pictures...

Again; if the solution is that simple you will be a billionaire as MILLIONS of men are desperately looking for a " logical solution ". If the anwer was "just another bio or just rearrange your pictures" then we wouldn't even have this convo right now..

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

@Gamisch

hmmm yes Aitana Bonmati ,a 28 year old . super fit professional footballer that plays for FC Barcelona and the Spanish national team…

could she possibly be elite and unobtainable for some 48 yo below-average looking dude..?

And is she rated a 5/10 smv woman?

hmmmm…
it’s a hard one !

I'm not talking about her as individual - the original Aitana Bonmati, i was just using her looks as an example. Of course a top class female athlete that plays for Barcelona and Spain's women's team will have 10000x of admirers and able to date other rich high status male athletes if she wants to. Are you being obtuse?

I was talking about your typical local woman, who has similar SMV to her without makeup (which is a 5/10), who isn't rich, she works at a cashier in a shop, who works out 2x a week in a gym to keep slim/healthy weight, doesn't have a upwardly mobile job, has normal hobbies, she lives in a basic house or apartment etc. - DOES an average woman like this get with top 5% to 10% Chad-looking 6ft2 Hunks of men?

Is it impossible for a local 5/10 man to date such a woman, with all else being equal (he works out, has a job, has a house/apartment, hobbies etc)?

 

[Clockwerk50]

all of what you added were already there, except for maybe remote work

but really doubt that remote work would change things on this side of the coin

I think you're underestimating how much things changed after COVID. The number of influencers has exploded, social media has become more ingrained in people's lives, platforms like TikTok have grown significantly in popularity, and right-wing political views have gained traction in certain countries. Services like Uber Eats have made staying home easier, remote work has changed how people socialize, and a new generation has entered the dating market.

People are used to receiving instant gratification and having everything available at their fingertips. Just because these things existed before COVID doesn't mean they haven't evolved.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I'm not talking about her as individual - the original Aitana Bonmati, i was just using her looks as an example. Of course a top class female athlete that plays for Barcelona and Spain's women's team will have 10000x of admirers and able to date other rich high status male athletes if she wants to. Are you being obtuse?

I was talking about your typical local woman, who has similar SMV to her without makeup (which is a 5/10), who isn't rich, she works at a cashier in a shop, who works out 2x a week in a gym to keep slim/healthy weight, doesn't have a upwardly mobile job, has normal hobbies, she lives in a basic house or apartment etc. - DOES an average woman like this get with top 5% to 10% Chad-looking 6ft2 Hunks of men?

Is it impossible for a local 5/10 man to date such a woman, with all else being equal (he works out, has a job, has a house/apartment, hobbies etc)?

well of all the photos on the internet you could have picked for an example of the ‘average woman’ .. a pro athlete was a poor choice !

This is the problem w this forum - there is zero context for the posters next to their names.
Like where they are located and what’s their culture for starters .
The ‘average woman’ is gonna be different moving around the world which is a problem . There is no Global average woman.
I think you’re in UK.. where average woman is different to Australia where I am. Or USA.

And the average woman doesn’t go gym 2x per week in UK . that’s closer to true in Aus tho and for other countries , like Eastern Europe say Poland where the populations are generally fitter and regular gym goers.

I think you’re setting the bar too high to start with and underrating looks imo.

average woman is gonna be slightly curvy in UK.

Not looking like an athlete

And probably looks more like Jordan or whoever is trending these days . lol. With fake tan, a lot of makeup and those big thick eyebrows.

maybe choose a pic of a random average UK chick and blur out her eyes or something.

that Bonmati chick is just the wrong example to start a debate. And I think you’re watching too many looksmaxxer influencer videos that Wayne guy rating those Asian American chicks a 3/10 and z5/10 is laughable . He’s under-rating purposely, to stoke the viewers anxiety and fear so he can sell them his height maxxing trainers his ‘Chad vitamin Pills’ (lol) and his rediculously expensive courses. Obviously. as looksmaxxers are the new PUAs even the BP influencer guys recognise and point it out.
Which is absolutely true. They are pure-money making manipulating grifter conmen scumbags.

 

[Arete]

Some update: I tried applying the stuff people mentioned here to the bio. But so far, all it has done is give me 3 likes, which I can't even see. Most likely fakes logically speaking. I think these apps want me to splash money on them. Kind of feels like a phone game somehow. Which is weird, because I have never played phone games before.

About my pictures

First picture is similar to an ID photo. I tried zooming the mirror selfie in, so it looks somewhat like a regular portrait picture. I tried real hard to smile on that one but it looks like neutral expression.

My second is a full body picture, me outdoors in a jacket, looking real broad using that rotating waist technique from mens natural physique. But I kind of have a "no fun allowed" expression in that one. Looking real serious.

In my mind:

1. first picture is "proof" I'm youthful and decent looking. No Photoshop or the like.
2. second picture is "proof" I'm really in great shape. " I'm not a wannabe, I'm the real deal"

I dunno, maybe it's too straightforward. If I swipe on women, that's exactly how I judge. It's an objective and logical approach. I figured everyone does this. Still learning though.

Eventually, I will go to a photographer. I will tell him to give me some instructions to make me seem less serious and more outgoing. Personally, I really don't care if people smile or not. If anything, it puts me on guard. Most smiles are fake anyway. I learned this the hard way in life.

Its not like I didn't try to smile. It lacks the natural and genuine look. "Didn't reach the eyes" ...


EDIT:

I just got a crazy idea ... How about I make approaches by showing women my dating profile in real life? haha

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

well of all the photos on the internet you could have picked for an example of the ‘average woman’ .. a pro athlete was a poor choice !

This is the problem w this forum - there is zero context for the posters next to their names.
Like where they are located and what’s their culture for starters .
The ‘average woman’ is gonna be different moving around the world which is a problem . There is no Global average woman.
I think you’re in UK.. where average woman is different to Australia where I am. Or USA.

And the average woman doesn’t go gym 2x per week in UK . that’s closer to true in Aus tho and for other countries , like Eastern Europe say Poland where the populations are generally fitter and regular gym goers.

I think you’re setting the bar too high to start with and underrating looks imo.

average woman is gonna be slightly curvy in UK.

Not looking like an athlete

And probably looks more like Jordan or whoever is trending these days . lol. With fake tan, a lot of makeup and those big thick eyebrows.

maybe choose a pic of a random average UK chick and blur out her eyes or something.

that Bonmati chick is just the wrong example to start a debate. And I think you’re watching too many looksmaxxer influencer videos that Wayne guy rating those Asian American chicks a 3/10 and z5/10 is laughable . He’s under-rating purposely, to stoke the viewers anxiety and fear so he can sell them his height maxxing trainers his ‘Chad vitamin Pills’ (lol) and his rediculously expensive courses. Obviously. as looksmaxxers are the new PUAs even the BP influencer guys recognise and point it out.
Which is absolutely true. They are pure-money making manipulating grifter conmen scumbags.

Why do you have to bring up the "50%" weight percentile average for a nation? It does not decide what "average attractiveness" is.
Like i said, if 100% of American women become obese whales, does the one with the best hair style and manicured nails become the 10/10? No, she does not - she's still disgusting because of her weight. Likewise, if 100% of american men become disgusting obese blobs, does the one with the trendy haircut become a "10/10" - no he does not.


So if an average man who is slim/fit/healthy-weight and go's to the gym 2-3x a week, his standards are too high to want a woman who is average and slim/healthy-weight herself and she go's to the gym 2x a week. That's what I'm asking? Why does he have to date a chubby, unfit woman, when he is much better than that.

Why is HE asking for 'too much' by wanting a woman that mirrors him? That's what I'm asking.

 

[Cheeky_James]

So if an average man who is slim/fit/healthy-weight and go's to the gym 2-3x a week, his standards are too high to want a woman who is average and slim/healthy-weight herself and she go's to the gym 2x a week. That's what I'm asking? Why does he have to date a chubby, unfit woman, when he is much better than that.

Why is HE asking for 'too much' by wanting a woman that mirrors him? That's what I'm asking.

And I would answer

-if he is wanting a woman that simply mirrors his slim weight and fitness levels (just those 2 criteria)

ie just looking at her body only ..then no. he is not 'asking too much'

but what does his FACE look like?
Cos if he is a 'but-his-face' man ..then hes gonna have to pair with a but-her-face woman.
Thats right dude .
a BUTTERFACE.

do you get it now or nah?
Cos this is just the way it is.

If high beauty in the face for women ='pretty'
and high beauty in the face for men ='handsome'

Then the law of nature is - pretty women want handsome men.

And there aint sh1t you can do about that. unfortunately.
You can jump up and down all ya want . But it aint changing the fact.

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

And I would answer

-if he is wanting a woman that simply mirrors his slim weight and fitness levels (just those 2 criteria)

ie just looking at her body only ..then no. he is not 'asking too much'

but what does his FACE look like?
Cos if he is a 'but-his-face' man ..then hes gonna have to pair with a but-her-face woman.
Thats right dude .
a BUTTERFACE.

do you get it now or nah?
Cos this is just the way it is.

If high beauty in the face for women ='pretty'
and high beauty in the face for men ='handsome'

Then the law of nature is - pretty women want handsome men.

And there aint sh1t you can do about that. unfortunately.
You can jump up and down all ya want . But it aint changing the fact.

Average face man, not ugly face man.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Average face man, not ugly face man.

this is the problem.
Personal bias and dudes rating their own looks.
Or getting other dudes like WW (who has his own agenda ) to “honestly” rate their looks. Rate meeee plz bro!

Guy thinks he is a 5 or 6
When he’s actually a 4 in women’s eyes.

what can ya do….

 

[Cheeky_James]

Guys who are saying this + have something to sell you is a big red flag

For the rest of the guys is just cope as they try to tell themselves and to the world that they were not rejected by the girl they were just not interested

same type of cope women have when they say that they only date model type guys and they have the body of a panda

Unfortunately I see more and more guys using the same cops women use. It is true that men are not men anymore and become worse than women

yeah man.
It’s like that short dating coach such as Alpha M saying
“Dudes! It’s all in your head bro ! It’s just your perception. being short is like a super -power dude!” , listing all the crazy reasons why that is.

then next
“Here’s my tips on how short guys can look a bit taller to ‘compensate for their height !”

then flogs his super course;
‘Alpha Ms Deep secrets of the short naturals’.

Classic sales trickin’ BS.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Nah bro...that last sentence is just cope..

An absolute Chris Hempsworth- esqeu Chad , being a ....laywer / über entrepreneur/ baller with status can have terrible pictures and still get 1000x the amount of dates that average men get..

This is also proven multiple times . There been experiments where they let Chad say the most vile shyte and yet women will go. I wished you were right but unfortunately facts don't lie..women ain't that stupid...thats like saying a fat woman with good pictures will do better than a hb9,5 Stacy with bad pictures...

Again; if the solution is that simple you will be a billionaire as MILLIONS of men are desperately looking for a " logical solution ". If the anwer was "just another bio or just rearrange your pictures" then we wouldn't even have this convo right now..

but in those tinder "experiments" the Chad also has great photos (high quality, good lighting, good locations, social proof, etc) - you never see them use some weird autistic selfies in crappy lighting in his bedroom. In fact they usually get the photos from public places like instagram influencers or models, who naturally will have good pictures since that's all they do.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Nah bro...that last sentence is just cope..

An absolute Chris Hempsworth- esqeu Chad , being a ....laywer / über entrepreneur/ baller with status can have terrible pictures and still get 1000x the amount of dates that average men get..

This is also proven multiple times . There been experiments where they let Chad say the most vile shyte and yet women will go. I wished you were right but unfortunately facts don't lie..women ain't that stupid...thats like saying a fat woman with good pictures will do better than a hb9,5 Stacy with bad pictures...

Again; if the solution is that simple you will be a billionaire as MILLIONS of men are desperately looking for a " logical solution ". If the anwer was "just another bio or just rearrange your pictures" then we wouldn't even have this convo right now..

trust and believe …1000%