"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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Rate this guys face plz

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Cheeky_James

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I’ve struggled from time to time, but I’ve also never had a consortium of people tell me that I have substandard facial features as you have here. So I’m asking you if you think it’s possible that it shaped your worldview.
no don’t think so.
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

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Cheeky_James

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@Divorced w 3

and also , what’s your level of experience with women ..? how many women have you been with so far in your life?

Are are you a relationship type guy or a Don Juan Player type guy..?

So many questions
 

Sega Genesis

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no don’t think so.
Did the woman who gave you feedback comment on your face and physical appearance? You posted she said you needed to "tone yourself down" (your vibe/energy) which I agree with, even YOU agree with!

Also I don't recall where you ever posted a picture of yourself on the open forum, did I miss it?

How do folks know your face is sub-par, totally confused about that.

Based on what you've posted about how those IRL rate you, you said you're a 7.
 

Cheeky_James

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Did the woman who gave you feedback comment on your face and physical appearance? You posted she said you needed to "tone yourself down" (your vibe/energy) which I agree with, even YOU agree with!

Also I don't recall where you ever posted a picture of yourself on the open forum, did I miss it?

How do folks know your face is sub-par, totally confused about that.
that particular woman said it wasn’t my physical appearance .
But think about it - it’s not socially acceptable for women to tell men if that is the acfual reason.
Because of men’s Ego and man’s Anger.
that would be dangerous to be that honest.

her feedback was on my manners mainly.
It may have been I was too short simply.

Can read too much into a womans feedback tbh. But it is always an interesting exercise just to see what is said.

also importantly (and funny to me ) - all the replies to that feedback pedestalized the woman . lol. No ine asked me what she looked like IRL or her personality . lol :rofl:
 

Sega Genesis

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I think women generally are uncomfortable giving any type of negative feedback, I always am when asked and typically say "I'm sorry I just wasn't feeling it." "Didn't feel the spark/chemistry" as lame as that might sound. It's just an awkward and uncomfortable conversation no matter how you slice and dice.

But since she was being so forthright in answering, thought she might have said you weren't her physical type or something.

You didn't answer my question, did you ever post a Pic of yourself on the open forum?

Yes or no. :D
 

"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"

Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.

She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.

Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.

So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.

The words come later. The impression comes first.

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Sega Genesis

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there was a looks issue, you would not have went to the date to being with
^Fair point. So from this can we assume she found him physically attractive? Since she agreed to go out with him? And she simply didn't feel a sexual spark/chemistry on the date?

Which happens. Often times there isn't even a logical reason, it just wasn't happening for her.

Except here she told him in so many words his vibe was too over-the-top... for HER. And to tone himself down.

Another woman might have felt differently.

Thats why it'a futile to even ask IMHO!
 

BeExcellent

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All I am saying is that sexual desire (which frankly is the thing I put the highest value on initially, although I do not act on it initially) is a multifaceted thing where looks contribute, but many other factors contribute equally or greater than looks. Sexual desire and sexual intimacy are the glue that bonds couples together and it is comprised of more than sex as a physical act.

Without sexual desire what's the point? Without that its just a friend thing, for me anyway.
 

Cheeky_James

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^Fair point. So from this can we assume she found him physically attractive? Since she agreed to go out with him? And she simply didn't feel a sexual spark/chemistry on the date?

Which happens. Often times there isn't even a logical reason, it just wasn't happening for her.

Except here she told him in so many words his vibe was too over-the-top... for HER. And to tone himself down.

Another woman might have felt differently.

Thats why it'a futile to even ask IMHO!
yes. Exactly. The woman just doesn’t ‘feel it’.

but by logical extension of that - it’s then a fallacy of this ‘game’ talk to believe a guy can ‘control’ this somehow. He can install such feelings by charm or suaveness or his personality factors (or whatever)

women are mercurial .moody and hormonal.
They might not ‘feel it’ on a date one week.

But if that same dude had his date w her 1 week later or 2 weeks later …She may well ‘ feel it’ and proceed to sleep with him. LOL.

so it’s not a matter of ‘bad game’ or it being his fault on the date actually.

It’s more a matter of timing and getting lucky.

All this ‘game’ stuff only increases odds slightly .
It’s a small piece of the pie imo. For above reasons .

A dude may get laid and think it’s his great game..
But he was really just the right guy, at the right time is more the reality.

And no, never posted my pic on forum. Just an AI filtered selfie or two, to protect my privacy.

General rating feedback is 7 to 7.5 face for me.

And I like asking for post date feedback from women just to test/confirm my observations of their body language on the date. There will be negative BL signals early on usually I find.

And this is why women won’t tell a guy its his Looks that’s the dealbreaker ;

 
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Cheeky_James

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All I am saying is that sexual desire (which frankly is the thing I put the highest value on initially, although I do not act on it initially) is a multifaceted thing where looks contribute, but many other factors contribute equally or greater than looks. Sexual desire and sexual intimacy are the glue that bonds couples together and it is comprised of more than sex as a physical act.

Without sexual desire what's the point? Without that its just a friend thing, for me anyway.
well your making some good points here.

but what other factors could come into it in the first few seconds of observing a man ..other than his Looks ?
(which would also include) ;
-His body language /confidence
-Whether he is an alpha or beta type of male.
-An impression of his social status

So firstly there is a sexual spark or sexual desire response from the woman that’s purely Looks based re the man. - Looks and how he is interacting and behaving (his perceived status) . Observed quickly. from afar.

then in the interaction it’s ,
- confidence in speaking
- intelligence and sense of humour
- proof of his status
- him making her feel she’s particularly of interest to him, is ‘unique’
- trading signals of interest back and forth/flirting
- taking next steps to physical intimacy

that’s about it re the process of a man and woman getting together right? Those other factors you mentioned after looks….
 
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The Duke

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well your making some good points here.

but what other factors could come into it in the first few seconds of observing a man ..other than his Looks ?
(which would also include) ;
-His body language /confidence
-Whether he is an alpha or beta type of male.
-An impression of his social status

So firstly there is a sexual spark or sexual desire response from the woman that’s purely Looks based re the man. - Looks and how he is interacting and behaving (his perceived status) . Observed quickly. from afar.

then in the interaction it’s ,
- confidence in speaking
- intelligence and sense of humour
- proof of his status
- him making her feel she’s particularly of interest to him, is ‘unique’
- trading signals of interest back and forth/flirting
- taking next steps to physical intimacy

that’s about it re the process of a man and woman getting together right? Those other factors you mentioned after looks….
Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.
 

“The 22 Rules That Turned Me From Invisible to Irresistible With Women… Starting Tonight”

You can skip the expensive cars, the fancy clothes, and the endless gym selfies. Completely unnecessary.

I used to freeze the second a beautiful woman looked my way. Frustrated. Awkward. Watching other guys walk away with the girl while I stood there tongue-tied.

Then I discovered 22 simple rules that rewired my entire dating life. The anxiety vanished. Conversations flowed effortlessly. Women started chasing me for a change.

These rules trigger a woman's subconscious attraction switches. And you can start using them tonight.

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BackInTheGame78

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Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.
As is usually the case:

"Advice is seldom welcome; and those who need it the most, like it the least."

- Lord Chesterfield
 

BeExcellent

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well your making some good points here.

but what other factors could come into it in the first few seconds of observing a man ..other than his Looks ?
(which would also include) ;
-His body language /confidence
-Whether he is an alpha or beta type of male.
-An impression of his social status

So firstly there is a sexual spark or sexual desire response from the woman that’s purely Looks based re the man. - Looks and how he is interacting and behaving (his perceived status) . Observed quickly. from afar.

then in the interaction it’s ,
- confidence in speaking
- intelligence and sense of humour
- proof of his status
- him making her feel she’s particularly of interest to him, is ‘unique’
- trading signals of interest back and forth/flirting
- taking next steps to physical intimacy

that’s about it re the process of a man and woman getting together right? Those other factors you mentioned after looks….
Things that are observable immediately:

1. Appearance (looks/clothing/grooming)
2. Fitness level
3. Style (clothing/hair/grooming)
4. Voice and manner of speaking
5. Vibe
6. The way people around him act around him (do they defer, do they respect his personal space, do they ignore)
7. Gaze (does he hold eye contact)
8. Body language
9. Confidence (or lack thereof)
10. Engagement with others

I have met very attractive doctors, lawyers, businessmen, corp execs, entertainers, pro athletes.

One lawyer I had a date with could not conversate for anything (I wondered how he ever became a lawyer) but I suppose he was booksmart in his field. He was a sexy enough looking man, but his lack of conversational ability and lack of engagement made the date extremely boring and I was relieved when it was over. Whatever attraction was there at first vanished when I realized he was boring and awkward.

Its not good when a woman feels relieved to get away from you.

Another time I was dancing on the dance floor at a hip nightclub. An internationally famous recording artist came to the club after his touring show had finished in the local area. He had various security staff as part of his entourage. One of his security men approached me and wanted to bring me over to meet the artist. I'm nobody's groupie. I asked the security guy "Do his legs work?" and the security guy looked caught off guard and said "Of course." I said "Well then he can walk over here himself if he wants to talk to me." The security guard was surprised, and went back to the artist, who did not come over himself. So that was a turn off entirely. Be a man for crying out loud.

The artist likely wanted some hot girl to bang & toss, and that was not my jam at all. Some other chick can be a groupie. Not me.

Both the examples I gave were very attractive high status men. So yeah, looks are NOT everything nor are looks the most important thing. Sometimes looks are the initial thing - the admittance to being seen by a desirable woman. That's it. From there its everything else, and everything else matters!
 

Cheeky_James

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Sexual attraction usually comes first but the rest of that stuff holds significance to the majority of women. Its why you struggle to get 2nd dates and one of your recent dates called you "transactional". The entire forum has tried to tell you multiple times that there is more to it than sexual attraction and looks.
And I keep saying you cannot make the call that it was ‘personality’ or ‘game’ .. until you read the womans date report / what she tells her GFs.. it may well indeed be just Looks simply. (Or Status & Money)

And it usually is just that.
my dates not progressing would likely have been due to( in order)

1 = not enough money /lifestyle (her :no kids, lots of disposable income, frequent traveller)

2- = too not old, BadBoy enough (her : last ex bf was an ex con , she does a lot of party drugs)

3 = too short , not fit enough (her: she was my height and fit bodied)

I’ve had 2 good dates also in this time - where I displayed the same personality/game , that the 2 women found a turn on and dates very successful.

My most recent new one (Monday) very much so. She was very ‘green light’ immediately.
Also, I told that chick the feedback/date report from the 3rd chick and she rolled her eyes & laughing at chicks comments. :rolleyes::D

Then an hour later gave me a BJ in her car.

So there you go.

it’s not really the ‘fault’ of the guy or his ‘bad game’ ..or a lack of ‘understanding’ (lol) that’s very much over-rated.

It’s mainly Looks and Status and also luck/good timing = success.
Not ‘game’.
 
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Cheeky_James

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Things that are observable immediately:

1. Appearance (looks/clothing/grooming)
2. Fitness level
3. Style (clothing/hair/grooming)
4. Voice and manner of speaking
5. Vibe
6. The way people around him act around him (do they defer, do they respect his personal space, do they ignore)
7. Gaze (does he hold eye contact)
8. Body language
9. Confidence (or lack thereof)
10. Engagement with others

I have met very attractive doctors, lawyers, businessmen, corp execs, entertainers, pro athletes.

One lawyer I had a date with could not conversate for anything (I wondered how he ever became a lawyer) but I suppose he was booksmart in his field. He was a sexy enough looking man, but his lack of conversational ability and lack of engagement made the date extremely boring and I was relieved when it was over. Whatever attraction was there at first vanished when I realized he was boring and awkward.

Its not good when a woman feels relieved to get away from you.

Another time I was dancing on the dance floor at a hip nightclub. An internationally famous recording artist came to the club after his touring show had finished in the local area. He had various security staff as part of his entourage. One of his security men approached me and wanted to bring me over to meet the artist. I'm nobody's groupie. I asked the security guy "Do his legs work?" and the security guy looked caught off guard and said "Of course." I said "Well then he can walk over here himself if he wants to talk to me." The security guard was surprised, and went back to the artist, who did not come over himself. So that was a turn off entirely. Be a man for crying out loud.

The artist likely wanted some hot girl to bang & toss, and that was not my jam at all. Some other chick can be a groupie. Not me.

Both the examples I gave were very attractive high status men. So yeah, looks are NOT everything nor are looks the most important thing. Sometimes looks are the initial thing - the admittance to being seen by a desirable woman. That's it. From there its everything else, and everything else matters!
thanks.
Well points
1-3 = Looks
4-10 = High Status / Alpha behaviours

So it not ‘everything ’ else mate.:rolleyes: It’s a pretty narrow criteria of what makes a man very attractive to women.

mainly : Looks & Status

And to the degree of how much the guy scores highly in both categories. Is how attractive he will be .
Ie -his SMV rating.

So that’s good to read above and good to know.:)

next we just need to break down what ‘vibe’ means and the different types of Vibe a man can have .

I fhink it’s
- Alpha male vibe
- Calm and magnetic vibe
- Dark Triad Vibe
- Beta / weak vibe
- weirdo/oddball /wacky/ jestering vibe


And first 3 of those vibes being preferable for a guy to have I think.

btw this is a great exercise so far :up: :up: :up:
 
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BeExcellent

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So in my estimation looks are only 10% of the formula. That means its 90% everything else.
 

“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

Read more...

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