Can't get a lead to not flake on a non-instant date.

[fastzander]

Hey folks. Since the last time I posted on this forum (https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...esults-soliciting-feedback-on-routine.284811/), I’ve changed up my routine a fair amount. I now do my approaches during a 4:00 PM – 7:00 PM timeslot on weekdays, and during my old 11:30 AM – 3:30 PM timeslot only on weekends. I do them in the same high-traffic shopping district in the city center each day. I’ve drastically cut the number of approaches I do each day to 4. Instead of walking women, I now exclusively approach seated women. I now open directly (“I just thought you were cute,” etc.) instead of asking for a café recommendation as a pretext. When I get conversations, I’m much less scripted and try to improvise much more than I used to. I’ve recently emphasized trying to weave in push/pulls and qualifiers to the best of my ability. I try to get instant dates wherever possible.

In doing all of the above, my results have increased dramatically from what they had been. I can now get one phone number every second or third day or so, sometimes multiple days in a row (I just got one every night for three days in a row) if I’m lucky, compared to the barely one per week I used to get. I can get an instant date about twice per week, with an ease that honestly shocks me, and have gone on seven in a roughly three-week period thus far.

The trouble is that I cannot, for the life of me, seem to be able to get a woman to not flake on a non-instant date. Or, for that matter, even respond to my calls or texts. Roughly 12 leads in a row thus far have ended up going nowhere, either flaking on a non-instant date or not responding to calls/texts, including 6 of the ones I went on instant dates with. I vibed seemingly extremely well with at least three of the leads––one of them I kissed at the end of an instant date, and another offered me her number rather than the other way around and hugged me at the end––but these, too, flaked.

I’ve been adhering to every tip I’ve read to try and reduce this. I’ve been trying to close at high points in the conversations. I’ve been scheduling dates, with a specific time and place (always as soon as possible), at the times of the closes, rather than later over texts. I’ve been leaving with a final flirt or tease. I’ve been texting them non-needy callback humor (i.e… memes) midway between the initial meetings and the dates. On the days before the dates, I’ve tried calling to confirm first as opposed to texting, only doing the latter (wherein again, I try to be non-needy) if they don’t answer (which they never do). Alas, nothing.

I’m starting to get both frustrated and concerned. Do I simply need to do more approaches? I understand that a high percentage of leads will always flake, especially if one is a relative beginner. But I really feel like at least one shouldn’t have flaked by now, relative to the number I’ve gotten, if I haven’t been doing anything too overtly wrong. Compared to when I posted my last post here, I don’t really have any ideas on what, if anything, I might be doing wrong.

Based on the above information, does anyone here have any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? On what I should or shouldn’t be doing instead? I was able to resolve the issues I was having the last time by soliciting advice on both here and r/seduction.

 

[sevbucmash]

Do I simply need to do more approaches?

Have it not crossed your mind that those women have men, and you calling them is an inconvenience?

 

[fastzander]

Have it not crossed your mind that those women have men, and you calling them is an inconvenience?

These are the ones who don't tell me they have boyfriends. Why would the ones who do give me their numbers in the first place?

 

[sevbucmash]

These are the ones who don't tell me they have boyfriends. Why would the ones who do give me their numbers in the first place?

They are all hot and single out there, poor ladies, to what this world has come to!

I'd say change up your approach to get less flakes. Not answering phone is not a flake. Not answering messages asap is also not a flake. It's a sign of low interest and different priorities. Your method is not flexible, in that you choose the time & venue, for all we know girl can have acquittances at that venue and your time could not work out for her.

 

[Bigpapa]

Based on the above information, does anyone here have any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? On what I should or shouldn’t be doing instead? I was able to resolve the issues I was having the last time by soliciting advice on both here and r/seduction.

Maybe you come off too smooth/ cool and have attainability issues?

you have to come up with more details on what you do on the dates per se

sounds a bit strange that you kissed a girl and then she never responded …

and yes, like @sevbucmash mentioned, it is not ok setting up time and place from the get go. You need to ask her how her schedule looks like first and then propose something

first you soft close ( we should grab a coffee drink )
Then after she agrees or somethin then you hard close ( how your schedule looks like ? )

only after the 2nd step you actually say ( great let’s meet in x day. How y hour sounds like ? )

 

[Gamisch]

They are all hot and single out there, poor ladies, to what this world has come to!

I'd say change up your approach to get less flakes. Not answering phone is not a flake. Not answering messages asap is also not a flake. It's a sign of low interest and different priorities. Your method is not flexible, in that you choose the time & venue, for all we know girl can have acquittances at that venue and your time could not work out for her.

Great to see AMS getting more recognition

 

[fastzander]

Maybe you come off too smooth/ cool and have attainability issues?

you have to come up with more details on what you do on the dates per se

sounds a bit strange that you kissed a girl and then she never responded …

and yes, like @sevbucmash mentioned, it is not ok setting up time and place from the get go. You need to ask her how her schedule looks like first and then propose something

first you soft close ( we should grab a coffee drink )
Then after she agrees or somethin then you hard close ( how your schedule looks like ? )

only after the 2nd step you actually say ( great let’s meet in x day. How y hour sounds like ? )

The instant dates consist of a coffee followed by a walk along a waterfront, with further and slightly more in-depth casual conversation.

The one I kissed was a rare one who actually did text to explain her flake---according to her, a job interview came up.

I do ask them what their schedules are, and then we work out a time and place that works for both of us together. And yet, they've still all flaked thus far.

 

[fastzander]

They are all hot and single out there, poor ladies, to what this world has come to!

I'd say change up your approach to get less flakes. Not answering phone is not a flake. Not answering messages asap is also not a flake. It's a sign of low interest and different priorities. Your method is not flexible, in that you choose the time & venue, for all we know girl can have acquittances at that venue and your time could not work out for her.

No, we work out the times and venues together.

 

[Bigpapa]

The one I kissed was a rare one who actually did text to explain her flake---according to her, a job interview came up.

Did you managed to actually see her after the flake?

 

[fastzander]

Did you managed to actually see her after the flake?

No. She was a Russian migrant worker or something, and after she didn't get the job, she left town altogether, or so she texted me. (Yes, I'm aware that this could have been a big fat lie to let me down gently).

 

[Vanderdonck]

Silly question but are you in fact approaching women that you find really attractive? Or just pretty girls you see? IOW are you going through the motions or do you get a bit of a chubby when you see them. There is a difference.

Reason being, attraction and chemistry should be there. If one person has it the other may reflect it back. (Maybe not.)

A phone number is a phone number. She should be a little intrigued and feel your vibe. Nothing wrong with practice to calm your nerves and get reps, but at some point approaching for approaching's sake can feel forced. For me they have to stir my loins a bit.

 

[Bigpapa]

No. She was a Russian migrant worker or something, and after she didn't get the job, she left town altogether, or so she texted me. (Yes, I'm aware that this could have been a big fat lie to let me down gently).

Sounds very dodgy the story that an interview came out of the blue and then she left the town immediately after

You have to give more details on what you are actually doing during the approach / insta dates

Without knowing any details I would say that it is either an attainability issue ( she thinks that she cannot have you ) or the face that you are too sexual / robotic an she feels that no report is between the 2 of you

 

[fastzander]

Silly question but are you in fact approaching women that you find really attractive? Or just pretty girls you see? IOW are you going through the motions or do you get a bit of a chubby when you see them. There is a difference.

Reason being, attraction and chemistry should be there. If one person has it the other may reflect it back. (Maybe not.)

A phone number is a phone number. She should be a little intrigued and feel your vibe. Nothing wrong with practice to calm your nerves and get reps, but at some point approaching for approaching's sake can feel forced. For me they have to stir my loins a bit.

I don't... really know how to answer this. I'm only approaching ones that I find attractive enough that I would, hypothetically, be willing to date and have sex with them, yes. I can't really say I that get "a bit of chubby" just from seeing any given woman, though.

 

[Clockwerk50]

My first thought is that you changed your process to increase the number of numbers you get, but unfortunately, the outcome is still the same. I think the reason might be that you’re approaching women who are sitting down, which can come across as a bit intrusive or like you’re ambushing them since they have no easy way out. They might give you their number just to end the interaction politely rather than out of genuine interest.

That’s just what I gathered from your post, but it might explain why your leads aren’t following through.

 

[Vanderdonck]

I don't... really know how to answer this. I'm only approaching ones that I find attractive enough that I would, hypothetically, be willing to date and have sex with them, yes. I can't really say I that get "a bit of chubby" just from seeing any given woman, though.

Well put another way, once the interaction starts, is your interest stirred? A girl's gotta have some dynamics for me once I start speaking with her.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Hey folks. Since the last time I posted on this forum (https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...esults-soliciting-feedback-on-routine.284811/), I’ve changed up my routine a fair amount. I now do my approaches during a 4:00 PM – 7:00 PM timeslot on weekdays, and during my old 11:30 AM – 3:30 PM timeslot only on weekends. I do them in the same high-traffic shopping district in the city center each day. I’ve drastically cut the number of approaches I do each day to 4. Instead of walking women, I now exclusively approach seated women. I now open directly (“I just thought you were cute,” etc.) instead of asking for a café recommendation as a pretext. When I get conversations, I’m much less scripted and try to improvise much more than I used to. I’ve recently emphasized trying to weave in push/pulls and qualifiers to the best of my ability. I try to get instant dates wherever possible.

In doing all of the above, my results have increased dramatically from what they had been. I can now get one phone number every second or third day or so, sometimes multiple days in a row (I just got one every night for three days in a row) if I’m lucky, compared to the barely one per week I used to get. I can get an instant date about twice per week, with an ease that honestly shocks me, and have gone on seven in a roughly three-week period thus far.

The trouble is that I cannot, for the life of me, seem to be able to get a woman to not flake on a non-instant date. Or, for that matter, even respond to my calls or texts. Roughly 12 leads in a row thus far have ended up going nowhere, either flaking on a non-instant date or not responding to calls/texts, including 6 of the ones I went on instant dates with. I vibed seemingly extremely well with at least three of the leads––one of them I kissed at the end of an instant date, and another offered me her number rather than the other way around and hugged me at the end––but these, too, flaked.

I’ve been adhering to every tip I’ve read to try and reduce this. I’ve been trying to close at high points in the conversations. I’ve been scheduling dates, with a specific time and place (always as soon as possible), at the times of the closes, rather than later over texts. I’ve been leaving with a final flirt or tease. I’ve been texting them non-needy callback humor (i.e… memes) midway between the initial meetings and the dates. On the days before the dates, I’ve tried calling to confirm first as opposed to texting, only doing the latter (wherein again, I try to be non-needy) if they don’t answer (which they never do). Alas, nothing.

I’m starting to get both frustrated and concerned. Do I simply need to do more approaches? I understand that a high percentage of leads will always flake, especially if one is a relative beginner. But I really feel like at least one shouldn’t have flaked by now, relative to the number I’ve gotten, if I haven’t been doing anything too overtly wrong. Compared to when I posted my last post here, I don’t really have any ideas on what, if anything, I might be doing wrong.

Based on the above information, does anyone here have any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? On what I should or shouldn’t be doing instead? I was able to resolve the issues I was having the last time by soliciting advice on both here and r/seduction.

You should not be surprised by the high rate of flaking among women you meet through the cold approach. Just because they give you their phone number doesn't mean they want to meet.

 

[Bigpapa]

You should not be surprised by the high rate of flaking among women you meet through the cold approach. Just because they give you their phone number doesn't mean they want to meet.

I think that it is normal when you go through a dry spell to ask for feedback, especially since you eventually manage to kiss a girl and she still goes washy washy after

but the OP needs to come up with more details to see if it is just bad luck or it is something on his end that hopefully can be easily corrected

 

[nismo-4]

These are the ones who don't tell me they have boyfriends. Why would the ones who do give me their numbers in the first place?

They don't find you attractive and do that as an out because they know they can ignore you later.

Women are conditioned to be socially pleasant even when they aren't attracted to the guy. Nowadays women need to prove themselves because they're often just being nice or friendly and just wanting attention.

Dating is a minefield when you're not a sexy millionaire with a big blue-checked IG. Change your approach, meaning become a Chad or Tyrone.

 

[crowolf]

Interesting thread.

First of all, props to you for taking action! I know how hard this road is.

I went through a similar phase this year of many flakes from cold approaching, so I don’t know If I can offer you a solution.

But here are some thoughts: Perhaps you shouldn’t focus on closing (getting the number or stepping into a rapport building instant-date), but rather on having fun yourself in the interactions, creating attraction by sparking their emotions (although it shouldn’t be too gamey, too), make sure the vibe corresponds to a man-to-woman frame, and you fully own your desire and manly presence within you. And perhaps only add a little bit of connection and actually getting to know the other person (too much of that too early - I think, and experience shows - doesn’t work in your favour).

And of course there are 2 other factors that might play a huge role in this: SMV and how the times we live in are very far from the cold approaching days. About the first one: build yourself & your life as much as you can. Have some stories to implement that show SMV, but it should come naturally - not too much gamey and slick.

And about the latter - I can only hope that it’s not true, and you can still effectively do daygame nowadays. Just make sure they don’t see through the fact that you go out specifically to cold approach. It should come off natural and spontaneous. This is why mechanically spam-approaching with the same phrase might be a bad idea (even if it’s surely better than doing nothing).

After all, women still read those romantic/erotic novels about adventures with some “alpha guy”. But on the other side, you have to be congruent enough and make her feel safe in your presence. So it’s kind of complex, ngl.

Maybe the solution is also in innergame? After all, there are many subconscious models through which we operate. And it’s very hard to mask these, unless you are a very good actor, I guess.

Main thing probably is this - girls want to have fun.