Universal Income & Automation

[The Duke]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-well-best-230608267.html

Elon Musk envisions a future where robots do all the work, everything is automated and powered by artifiical intelligence. He also claims there will be more robots than humans.

The issue becomes what do we do with those who become unemployed. Elon thinks we should have a universal high income system. Everyone gets the best medical care, food, home, transportation, etc. He calls it sustainabe abundance. I guess the robots would be "slaves" and the government would collect taxes and distribute that to the lazy humans aka slave owners? lol I don't think Elon has thought this through.

My question is who pays for it? Who owns and maintains the robots? The entire economy would need to change for this to work, our Social Security system doesn't even work and its been around since 1935.

I think Elon is a great brain and has some great technological ideas, but he fails when he address the "people" side of his ventures. He, like most intellectuals struggles when it comes to understanding & dealing with humans. There have been many examples of this.(DOGE, His Women & Kids, His relationship with employees). The guy has kids with 5 different women, what a fuhking mess that must be to deal with. The man works far too much to be a great father. Several have stated he relies on nannies and is an absent father. One said he barely knows the kid he produced.

Years ago robots were going to take over manufacturing and that never happened. I worked in manufacturing and have been a part of solutions for automating tasks. I can tell you that some tasks are suited for robotics, others are not and never will be.

And just what are people supposed to do to stay mentally happy when they don't have a job to go to? And you think some of us are going to be happy making the same that everyone else does and having the same? He hasn't even addressed the psychology behind his idea. Just look at how social media has effected the psychology of society. Elon's plan would cause far greater pain.

 

[Divorced w 3]

At the risk of being simplistic, I believe capital will tend to flow where the new opportunity exists and as such, labor will flow with it. There are numerous examples in history where technology reduced the problems faced by the human population, and here we are anyway. Remember too, technology doesn’t necessarily move things in a positive direction.

 

[Captain Redbeard]

Kurt Vonnegut explored some of these questions and themes in Player Piano. For a book written in 1952, it is very relevant to our current times.

The utopia of universal high income sounds great in theory but it is unclear how we actually get there. Why would the ultra wealthy suddenly consent to a massive redistribution of wealth? If there is one constant throughout human history, it is greed.

The truth is these are very complex questions and there is no easy answer. Technology is progressing so much faster than any policy that it is hard to imagine meaningful change without some really rough transitionary periods.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

The answers are actually indeed pretty simple. Reduce the work week and manage the rate of technological advancement. #1 is pretty easy enough, you change overtime laws to induce the reductions. #2 is the trickier part as countries will want to use tech to have an advantage over their rivals. Unless there's ET disclosure and planetary divisions become mitigated. Even then, there will be massive disruption.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Elon Musk is full of sh1t. He's a government grifter, has a transgender kid and his mother is an actual witch. And if the New York Times is to be believed, his dad is a child molester

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/23/world/africa/elon-musk-father-errol-child-abuse.html?unlocked_article_code=1.oE8.mC5-.oPMwqMRmx5rP&smid=url-share

Not to mention anything he "invents" is basic compared to black budget military tech.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Everyone gets the best medical care, food, home, transportation,

If I get that for free, no way am I going to work, except to do the bare minimum to pay for my pornhub.

If everybody gets everything for free, nobody's going to work non-robot jobs that suck, of which there will always be plenty.

This idea significantly overestimates AI capabilities and the number of jobs AI or robots will never take.

Also, if everybody is getting free shyte, nobody will be incentivized to start any businesses, including new tech.

Only out-of-touch Marxists believe that people will work "just because" they like it.

UBI is only for the economically illiterate and is dumber than the idea of humans living on Mars.

Elon is talking out of his a$$ because he's an attention wh*re who can't get enough media attention.

 

[plumber]

The root problem is libido drives most everything. Women are attracted to power. Things have to be unequal for power to exist.

It will never be even and fair there must be a winner to activate female lust.

Play or get played.

 

[Mike32ct]

Fat UBI checks for everybody would be inflationary to say the least.

 

[SW15]

Years ago robots were going to take over manufacturing and that never happened. I worked in manufacturing and have been a part of solutions for automating tasks. I can tell you that some tasks are suited for robotics, others are not and never will be.

A similar thing can happen with white collar work. Robotics and AI can replace some parts of white collar work but not others.

And just what are people supposed to do to stay mentally happy when they don't have a job to go to?

I think this can happen. If someone has enough money, they won't miss doing their work. A lot of white collar work is meaningless and soul draining.

Many laid off white collar workers don't miss the actual work from the company that lays them off. They only miss the money.

The major problem with UBI and unemployment type programs is that governments tend to massively underestimate how much money is needed to sustain a decent lifestyle. UBI and unemployment type programs only tend to pay lower tier income type salaries. It's not even enough to temporarily sustain a meager, middle class existence.

In the USA, most state unemployment programs are massively underfunded. They don't provide enough benefits and aren't long enough. In the USA, most state unemployment programs are 26 weeks, which isn't long enough in a recessionary period for many white collar workers to get a decent paying job. Even lower level white collar work is difficult to replace in 3-6 months, barely getting under that 26 week period.

During the late 2000s/early 2010s recession, USA state unemployment was extended from 26 weeks in most states to 99 weeks with federal support. This was eventually phased out in the early 2010s.

Public workforce programs during the Great Recession : Monthly Labor Review : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

www.bls.gov

In 2020, the federal government added $600 per week to state benefits (typically in the $400-$550 range at the time) for unemployed workers and extended unemployment benefits from the standard 26 weeks in most states to 39 weeks.

Some Earning More Money On Unemployment Than While Working - What Is Their Incentive To Return To Work?

Workers in over 25 states are earning more, on average, from unemployment benefits than they earned while working.

www.forbes.com

In general, I think most USA states offering 26 weeks is insufficient and outdated with the nature of white collar work. 26 weeks is sufficient for blue collar workers and low wage service sector laborers, but not reasonable for white collar workers. I think raising that to at least 52 weeks would be reasonable to accommodate the changes in white collar work and could cover more recessionary periods. I think the 99 week experiment that happened around the 2008 recession was a better idea.

I don't see UBI/unemployment working out well.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Would rather we put AI to use curing cancer, Alzheimer's, cleaning up the oceans, finding cheap ways to put a roof over everyone's head, etc. Then maybe we can talk about them taking over jobs. Elon took a few many Tylenol.

 

[The Duke]

I think this can happen. If someone has enough money, they won't miss doing their work. A lot of white collar work is meaningless and soul draining.

Many laid off white collar workers don't miss the actual work from the company that lays them off. They only miss the money.

Its really sad that someone would stay in a position they weren't happy with. Says a lot about them actually. Its about like staying with a woman they aren't happy with.

I know many, many people that wouldn't be happy sitting on their azz doing nothing. Most of them are self-employed.

 

[SW15]

Its really sad that someone would stay in a position they weren't happy with. Says a lot about them actually. Its about like staying with a woman they aren't happy with.

It's very common to see white collar workers stay in a conventional employment relationship with an employer that they don't like for an extended period.

I think there's significant overlap between unfulfilled white collar laborers and blue pill ideology/beta males in mating interactions.

The majority of males are beta males in intersexual interaction and the majority of white collar worker males are in mediocre to subpar working relationships.

I don't think most white collar laid off workers actually miss the work that they were doing. They only miss the money. In a lot of cases, that money was mediocre too but superior to state unemployment.

 

[BaronOfHair]

"And just what are people supposed to do to stay mentally happy when they don't have a job to go to?"

Pornhub, IF you live in a state where it hasn't been essentially banned

 

[Bokanovsky]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-well-best-230608267.html

Elon Musk envisions a future where robots do all the work, everything is automated and powered by artifiical intelligence. He also claims there will be more robots than humans.

The issue becomes what do we do with those who become unemployed. Elon thinks we should have a universal high income system. Everyone gets the best medical care, food, home, transportation, etc. He calls it sustainabe abundance. I guess the robots would be "slaves" and the government would collect taxes and distribute that to the lazy humans aka slave owners? lol I don't think Elon has thought this through.

My question is who pays for it? Who owns and maintains the robots? The entire economy would need to change for this to work, our Social Security system doesn't even work and its been around since 1935.

I think Elon is a great brain and has some great technological ideas, but he fails when he address the "people" side of his ventures. He, like most intellectuals struggles when it comes to understanding & dealing with humans. There have been many examples of this.(DOGE, His Women & Kids, His relationship with employees). The guy has kids with 5 different women, what a fuhking mess that must be to deal with. The man works far too much to be a great father. Several have stated he relies on nannies and is an absent father. One said he barely knows the kid he produced.

Years ago robots were going to take over manufacturing and that never happened. I worked in manufacturing and have been a part of solutions for automating tasks. I can tell you that some tasks are suited for robotics, others are not and never will be.

And just what are people supposed to do to stay mentally happy when they don't have a job to go to? And you think some of us are going to be happy making the same that everyone else does and having the same? He hasn't even addressed the psychology behind his idea. Just look at how social media has effected the psychology of society. Elon's plan would cause far greater pain.

The level of automation that you are describing will happen gradually and take decades to achieve. The smart thing to do would be to dovetail immigration policies with the anticipated rate of job displacement due to automation. Right now the conventional wisdom is that population must continue to increase in order to maintain economic growth. In the West, where birth rates are well below replacement level, this can only be achieved through mass immigration. But what if we could maintain healthy economic growth and allow the population to naturally decrease by reducing or outright ending immigration? This would be the best of both worlds, as many developed countries are hopelessly overpopulated.

 

[CornbreadFed]

He needs to go make South Africa great again.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The level of automation that you are describing will happen gradually and take decades to achieve. The smart thing to do would be to dovetail immigration policies with the anticipated rate of job displacement due to automation. Right now the conventional wisdom is that population must continue to increase in order to maintain economic growth. In the West, where birth rates are well below replacement level, this can only be achieved through mass immigration. But what if we could maintain healthy economic growth and allow the population to naturally decrease by reducing or outright ending immigration? This would be the best of both worlds, as many developed countries are hopelessly overpopulated.

Good luck figuring this out.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Good luck figuring this out.

Finite resources are spread over fewer people. How is this a bad thing?

Modern "economists" are paid wh0res. "Moar people!!!" whisper the corporate execs and gov't tax collectors into said wh0re ears...

When you have too many people, a return to prosperity is *not* commiserate with higher GPD numbers.

 

[Bible_Belt]

No advanced society in history has pulled off a high level of inequality for very long. Someone's head ends up rolling or on a stick. If I was a billionaire overlord, I would throw you measly peasants some stale bread to keep you from revolting.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Finite resources are spread over fewer people. How is this a bad thing?

Modern "economists" are paid wh0res. "Moar people!!!" whisper the corporate execs and gov't tax collectors into said wh0re ears...

When you have too many people, a return to prosperity is *not* commiserate with higher GPD numbers.

So, do you want many people to lose their lives? Are you considering being one of those involved?

 

[Bokanovsky]

So, do you want many people to lose their lives? Are you considering being one of those involved?

We are talking about reducing immigration, not killing people.