Men Are Tired of Women Not Paying for Dates

[Sega Genesis]

I totally get this. And for all of this to work, there has to be the right combination of man and woman.

You got it! Masculine man/feminine woman. Yin and yang.

 

[Bokanovsky]

^^You missed the point. Free meals don't turn a woman on, it the gesture of paying and how it coincides with him being a strong masculine provider and protector.

No, I did not miss your point. Men do not pay because the act of paying makes them feel like Superman. They pay because they feel obligated to comply with societal norms. It is generally expected that men will pay on dates. When a man goes against this convention, he runs the risk of being labeled "cheap". Most men detest being labelled "cheap", just like most women detest being labeled a "slvt".

How is it a sign of "strength" when you do something to conform with societal expectations?

 

[SW15]

Men do not pay because the act of paying makes them feel like Superman. They pay because they feel obligated to comply with societal norms. It is generally expected that men will pay on dates. When a man goes against this convention, he runs the risk of being labeled "cheap". Most men detest being labelled "cheap", just like most women detest being labeled a "slvt".

How is it a sign of "strength" when you do something to conform with societal expectations?

This is accurate. This complying with social norms is done to try to position himself to get a 2nd date with that woman in most cases. There's no way that paying for a first date can be interpreted as a sign of strength.

The majority of men are not men seeking short term sex. The majority of men in the mating environment are seeking something longer term and want their interactions to go longer.

 

[Sega Genesis]

When a man goes against this convention, he runs the risk of being labeled "cheap".

^^Sure possibly, by some women.

I did not think or silently label my boyfriend 'cheap.' It actually increased my respect for him!

Of course his delivery matters.

A man whining about how women are entitled bytches who expect free meals and therefore she needs to pay (as the man in the article did) is NOT gonna cut it.

Anyway... I've said my piece on the matter. You have your beliefs @Bokanovsky and I'm not here posting to change those beliefs.

I'm simply providing a woman's perspective (again some not all) and an alternative way of thinking ....and doing.

That's all.

 

[Bokanovsky]

In close to 100% of cases, this will be the man in the earliest stages of dating. It's difficult for men to be asked out on dates by women. Only the most female empowered, "Boss Girl" corporate career women will do this. They don't even do it that much.

Exactly. I can count on one hand the number of times a woman explicitly asked me out on a date. 99% of the time, it's the man who ends up asking a woman out on their first date. "Whoever invites, pays" is a disingenuous way of saying that the man pays.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

That doesn't even make sense. You don't have to be "strong" to pay for someone's meal. In fact, I would argue that it's the opposite of strength. You are demonstrating weakness by falling in line with societal expectations.

Everyone likes free stuff. However, liking it to a point where it sexually turns you on is arguably not normal even in our consumerism-driven society. It sounds like some kind of a weird fetish or paraphilia.

It's a gaslighting fetish

 

[BeExcellent]

Well men can stop paying when they can get pregnant, give birth, and nurse the baby. Perfect. At that point everything is equal right? Fact is that men and women are not equal, but rather are complimentary.

Some of this is cultural of course. But even in modern times a smart woman evaluates a man who would father her children with an eye toward his willingness and desire to provide for a family. Why?

Because the fact remains that she might be rendered physically unable while at the mercy of the childbearing years. So a fertile woman who would like to be a mother one day will look through this lens to one degree or another.

After the childbearing years this becomes far less important but it does indicate level of investment by the man (another thing a smart woman pays attention to).....

I look for investment early on. Time, effort, money. If a man is willing to make that investment, I am willing to reflect similar level of investment. But I also would never spend time allowing a man I don't like "that way" to invest in me. If we don't click, I cut off the interaction and would never use a man for a free meal. I can afford my own meal in that case, thank you very much.

 

[zekko]

You missed the point. Free meals don't turn a woman on, it's the gesture of paying and how it coincides with him being a strong masculine provider and protector.

I could see this. It's akin to the guy coming home with the wooly mammoth meat to put on the fire. And hey, maybe she's been out gathering some nice roots, herbs, and plants to add to the meal. Anyway, while I still see the male role as being a provider, I don't the think the man should always pay in today's world, that's not really what our society is currently set up for.

I can't imagine most women never wanting to contribute at least something now and then. If they don't, I'd say that's a red flag that they can't manage their money right. I know of a lot of women who have run up their credit cards to beyond their ability to keep up with. Some guys are that way too, but it's more common with women IMO. I think it probably has something to do with how women are under a lot of pressure to look good, to have a large variety of clothes to wear, makeup, spend a lot on their hair, etc.

 

[zekko]

I look for investment early on. Time, effort, money. If a man is willing to make that investment, I am willing to reflect similar level of investment. But I also would never spend time allowing a man I don't like "that way" to invest in me. If we don't click, I cut off the interaction and would never use a man for a free meal. I can afford my own meal in that case, thank you very much.

There is a certain phenomenon where a woman refusing to let you pay for can be a rejection. It's a very clear sign that they definitely don't want to "owe" you something.

By the way, I said above that women are more likely to run up their credit cards and get into heavy debt than men are. If you, as a woman, disagree on that, feel free to chime in. That is simply my impression.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I recall, years ago, when there was controversy surrounding whether or not Hillary Clinton had knowledge of Iraqi prisoner torture from US service members.

Well, had there been no torture in the first place, there would be nothing for her to know...would there be?

Well, same shiit; if you don't take women on dates in the first place, you won't have to start biitching about paying for these dates, would you?

It all begins with YOU.

But that's too much for you guys' beta stomachs to digest.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I was going to post this anecdote in the thread below; however, I think it’s more suitable here.

no physical reciprocation after second date? being used for money vs moving slow? | SoSuave Discussion Forum

I was talking to this girl, and she started telling me about how emotionally blocked or unavailable she was. Loosely translated from Spanish, she said that she though was this way because there was this guy who kept inviting her out to the movies, to dinner, to go dancing, etc. She said he wasn’t ugly, but he kept inviting her out, and they went on five dates.

Nonetheless, she didn’t want to keep seeing him. The guy texted her asking to give it one more try, and she was like, “We already tried it more than once.” Three days before our conversation, he had texted her again, and she didn’t reply, thinking that by ghosting him it would be a clear enough sign for him to get the message.

Her main point was that, since she didn’t even try to kiss him throughout all five dates, that alone should have been a strong signal that she wasn’t the right woman for him, and he should move on and find another one.

I’m with @BackInTheGame78 on this one. The guy in OP’s post probably isn’t sleeping with that woman. Often, once seduction is successful and sex is genuinely on the table, women will do whatever it takes to see you every day—even spend money or do outrageous things just to be around you.

 

[Gamisch]

No, I did not miss your point. Men do not pay because the act of paying makes them feel like Superman. They pay because they feel obligated to comply with societal norms. It is generally expected that men will pay on dates. When a man goes against this convention, he runs the risk of being labeled "cheap". Most men detest being labelled "cheap", just like most women detest being labeled a "slvt".

How is it a sign of "strength" when you do something to conform with societal expectations?

Because you got it like that. Simple . You work hard so you can play hard.

Let me get this right: you ask a woman out and then you expect her to pay her own share? Lol

 

[Bokanovsky]

Well men can stop paying when they can get pregnant, give birth, and nurse the baby. Perfect. At that point everything is equal right? Fact is that men and women are not equal, but rather are complimentary.

You can have your free meals when you die by the millions fighting in WWI and WWII, develop writing, science and math, and make literally every significant invention in the history of mankind. Nursing a baby is nothing compared to building a spaceship or storming a machine gun nest armed with a bolt action rifle and a bayonet.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Let me get this right: you ask a woman out and then you expect her to pay her own share? Lol

I pay. But not because I like to or want to. I don't pretend that paying makes me a "gentleman" or that there is something noble about being a walking wallet. It's not about money either. It's about entitled attitudes and the feeling of being sued. I fvcking hate that. But at the same time it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on. It is what it is.

 

[MatureDJ]

Men might be tired of it, but thousand of generations of men "bringing home the bacon" has imprinted upon our genetic programming that this is the normative way of courting. That said, I think what men are tired of is asking out women who agree without having any real interest in the man - especially men that aren't good provider material, and thus they can barely afford supporting themselves.

 

[SW15]

I think what men are tired of is asking out women who agree without having any real interest in the man - especially men that aren't good provider material, and thus they can barely afford supporting themselves.

You have identified something that happens. Those instances are frustrating for men.

While this does happen, I don't think this happens as much as you think that this happens.

In the USA market, there's too much female abundance for women to waste time on those sorts of dates. White women in the USA have the greatest abundance and would not waste their time to get as many freebies as you think that they'll get. That said, I think many women enjoy the privilege of getting freebies from early stage dating. However, free drinks/free meals aren't worth it for sitting through 2 unpleasant hours of socialization. Many women would rather pay for their own meals and be with a female friend for a more pleasant social outcome.

I think men are frustrated about picking up the costs of dates when women earn plenty of money. What's most frustrating for Western men is spending money on dates and not seeing positive outcomes. Men are not pleased when they spend money on dates and these dates don't materialize into anything. Female abundance plays into this as women have higher standards for men for obtaining second dates and beyond. Women are rejecting more men now than they did in the past because they have more options. These rejected men are often spending money on them on dates. As I said earlier in this thread, men can waste $1,000+ in courting costs between girlfriends. Men who get stuck continually in the early phases of dating experience higher courting costs.

Many women will pick up some costs after a relationship gets exclusive.

if you don't take women on dates in the first place, you won't have to start biitching about paying for these dates, would you?

This makes sense. Few men can have interactions with women and escalate them without a date. It would be great to have sufficient game to set up this way of doing things.

Another option is to try to set up inexpensive dates without coming off as cheap. This can be logistically challenging at times but is possible.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You can have your free meals when you die by the millions fighting in WWI and WWII, develop writing, science and math, and make literally every significant invention in the history of mankind. Nursing a baby is nothing compared to building a spaceship or storming a machine gun nest armed with a bolt action rifle and a bayonet.

Ever hear of Marie Curie? Ada Lovelace? Grace Hopper?

Don't be so ignorant.

 

[BeExcellent]

You can have your free meals when you die by the millions fighting in WWI and WWII, develop writing, science and math, and make literally every significant invention in the history of mankind. Nursing a baby is nothing compared to building a spaceship or storming a machine gun nest armed with a bolt action rifle and a bayonet.

Yeah well a without women, my friend, none of those men exist to do those things. Sperm cheap. Eggs expensive. remember that.

 

[BeExcellent]

There is a certain phenomenon where a woman refusing to let you pay for can be a rejection. It's a very clear sign that they definitely don't want to "owe" you something.

By the way, I said above that women are more likely to run up their credit cards and get into heavy debt than men are. If you, as a woman, disagree on that, feel free to chime in. That is simply my impression.

I dunno. I have seen it both ways. Financially responsible women as well as irresponsible. Financially irresponsible men as well as responsible.

Managing money is taught at home in families who build and retain wealth. Sensible families do not spoil the children, but rather teach them how to work hard and work smart. Many of the women in my family (including my sisters and myself) manage money for the family. We really no longer (at least as a society in the US) teach about financial management and money management. My mother & father were both generally terrible at handling money. My sisters and I are all very adept. Why? We collectively figured out what NOT to do and who NOT to listen to in observing our parents. And we were all fortunate to have other good role models we could learn from.

All four of us carry very little debt, and pay that debt off monthly. All of us are very transparent with our children about money matters; it is not a taboo subject. My Gen Z kids (23, 20 and 17) either have or are learning good financial skills and putting those into practice. They are frugal and conservative, having watched me work like crazy through fat times and lean times and always manage to keep them fed, housed and well taken care of.

So its more about education within families IME. My husband's parents were teachers who went into real estate after retirement. His mother and step father built a 7 figure nest egg and live very frugally; his father is flat broke pushing 80. Nobody taught my husband how to manage money. Unsurprisingly he has very little savings or investments. I am hoping he is learning some by watching me, otherwise he will be prone to bad decision making if he recieves any size inheritance.

I've seen as many men who are bad with money as I have women....but I do not hang out discussing money with such people (husband is an exception obviously) because if these people understood money? They'd have some.

My husband does have marketable technical skills snd can make a six figure income, but if something happens to that income he'd be as broke as his dad. Watching his father founder has been a rather rude and eye-opening experience for him.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Yeah well a without women, my friend, none of those men exist to do those things. Sperm cheap. Eggs expensive. remember that.

Says who? If that was true, people in China and other developing nations would not be aborting girls and keeping boys. Nothing special about eggs. And certainly nothing special about women who have barely any/no eggs left. Remember that.