Total submission or nothing

[BaronOfHair]

Caveat to all of this is that nothing in life, except for perhaps death, is ever really "complete", submission included:

Being part of the human race(a species not hardwired to remain with one mate long-term), the chances of your woman running off with either your own step-brother, or some other chick, are always pretty strong

 

[BaronOfHair]

In essence, your notion of leadership seems to imply that a man’s role is to “figure things out” by shouldering the burden of life’s most difficult, thankless, and stressful responsibilities, while a woman’s contribution is to show up and, as you say, "get on board"...

We all choose the manner in which we view the external world. For all the "problems" which exist in The Post-Industrial West, we modern men have options for advancement that were unimaginable for most men as relatively recently as The 1960s... Today, we don't really "have" to do anything

Everything is a matter of choice

 

[BaronOfHair]

Women respect real men

On a more fundamental level than even that, HUMAN BEINGS respect guys who at least appear to be formidable men,,rather than bedraggled little boys, once they reach the age of majority. As observed earlier in this thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/total-submission-or-nothing.284501/#post-3166018 , entirely too many of us today have an exhaustive knowledge of the Star Wars mythos and "serious opinions" on the current run of Superman(talking about the comic books here), yet are unable to explain 401K or recite even ONE line from The Bill Of Rights

Which is really sad, given that there WAS a brief period in the late 2000s and very early 10s were manhood was what was cool, and being a man-baby was reviled. Our entire civilization has been in an intellectual tailspin, from '16-today

 

[zekko]

I once was driving home late from a business trip. Rural area. Severe storms all around. A law enforcement officer pulls up adjacent to my car, drives alongside for a little bit. Drops behind me and pulls me over. Its raining. He asks me to get out of my car & tells me to get in the front seat of his cruiser. I am VERY uncomfortable. He starts saying suggestive things. Wants to "chat".

Well, that doesn't sound very fun. Talk about creepy.

 

[Sega Genesis]

BE that sounds frightening! Glad you made it outta there safe and sound!

Not to derail but anyone familiar with the Cara Knott story? Young college woman strangled by a police officer during a bogus traffic stop.

Happened in San Diego before my time (1986) but it was a BIG story that my lovely dad was always reminding me of.

>>On the night of December 27, 1986, twenty-year-old Cara Knott was driving south on Interstate 15 from her boyfriend's home in Escondido, California, to her parents' home in El Cajon when Craig Peyer, who was on duty in a marked California Highway Patrol (CHP) vehicle, directed Knott to pull off the freeway on an isolated, unfinished offramp.[7] It was later discovered that Peyer also had been harassing several other female drivers in the same area by pulling them over on the same offramp, supposedly trying to pick them up as dates. In the Knott case, it was believed that the situation escalated to physicality when Knott threatened to report Peyer for his inappropriate actions. When he attempted to grab her, she slashed and scratched at his face. Peyer then bludgeoned her with his flashlight and strangled her to death with a rope.[8] He then threw her body over the edge of the Los Peñasquitos Creek Arch Bridge, where she fell into the brush below.<<

 

[BadBoy89]

My current girlfriend who I rate as a 7-8/10 has had multiple marriage proposals from men she has dated prior to me who were absolutely loaded and in many cases much younger than her (she’s 50, I’m 58). She has never been single for more than 6 months. She has had to make all her social media accounts private as she was getting large amounts of DMs from guys wanting to date her from all over the world. When she went on a cruise while single she had multiple married guys hitting on her. It sounds insane but I’ve witnessed the attention she gets at times when we go out.

What did you do that she picked you over all the other guys who were in love with her?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Well, that doesn't sound very fun. Talk about creepy.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Exactly @Sega Genesis and of course you are female, you "get it". It is not fear per se but as an attractive woman you stand out. Therefore you must have situational awareness at all times.

I do not get drunk. Never have really. I do not tolerate excessive alcohol, and must always have wits about me to evaluate situations in real time.

I once was driving home late from a business trip. Rural area. Severe storms all around. A law enforcement officer pulls up adjacent to my car, drives alongside for a little bit. Drops behind me and pulls me over. Its raining. He asks me to get out of my car & tells me to get in the front seat of his cruiser. I am VERY uncomfortable. He starts saying suggestive things. Wants to "chat".

I told the officer that I had called my husband (first husband) and let him know my location via my cell phone, that I was being pulled over, and to call 911 and give my location if he didn't hear back from me in 20 minutes. I also asked him why he had pulled me over because I wasn't speeding or breaking any law.

His response was chilling: "Oh, just because...."

I told him I was going back to my car to get home to my family. And I got out of the cruiser & got back in the car. I had memorized his name tag in that encounter.

The next morning I called the sheriff's office, told them what happened and so forth. The female officer I spoke with was disturbed by what I reported.

I was lucky to get out of that situation safely. A man 10 years younger with a gun.

So yeah. Concern indeed. This crap does not happen to guys.

Gross.

Yeah I don't think a lot of men even know about the safety protocols females deal with. Actually a lot of men would be smart to learn them too.

 

[BeExcellent]

It was a disturbing thing. The key to what got me OUT of that situation (in a car in a remote area with an armed sheriff's officer WHO COULD HAVE LOCKED THE DOOR AND DRIVEN ME OFF SOMEWHERE)......

I realized it was a potentially very dangerous situation when he ordered me out of my rental car & into his vehicle's front passenger seat. But I needed to be cool. I needed him to like me but also understand that I am a mom and a wife and that people know where I am and what's going on. That means if he drives off with me, somebody will call his jurisdiction....I made him aware that he could possibly get caught with whatever he had in mind.....So I was conversant and I was very careful not to say anything he would find offensive; nothing provocational. There was a certain instability in his demeanor, and he needed me to be nice and polite, but not accusatory. He had ALL the power in that situation and the only way I could get the hell out of that car was for him to let me out.

And he did.

No way was I calling in a complaint to his dispatch with him still on patrol in that area. So I waited until the next day when I was safely home.

I think that telling him my husband knew where I was, knew I was being pulled over, and that my husband expected to hear back from me in a set period of time deterred the guy from whatever. I was cool about it, but I was suddenly not such an easy target.

The thing is I basically had to negotiate my way out of that situation with every alarm bell in my head shrieking. And I had to be calm & relaxed.

In a situation like that you cannot be hot headed and react, lest you get yourself killed.....and some perpetrators actually enjoy or take a thrill in the victim's fear. I was cool & showed no fear. In that moment there is no law. There is just two people weighing what they want versus consequences, and there is an uneven power dynamic. Nobody will hear you scream, nobody can get there to save you.

He let me go. I was very fortunate indeed but I did everything I could to diplomatically back out of that situation.

I have thanked God many times for that outcome.

Back to thread topic.....

 

[jhonny9546]

Treat a woman with respect and nicely but DO NOT supplicate to her like a "Beta male"
Have your own opinions
Teach her things
Take her to places both physically, emotionally and sexually she's never been before
Lead and dominate her physically and sexually-Believe me she expects this when the time is right
Reward her when she does something that you like and "diplomatically" put her in her place when
she steps out of line or disrespects you, your time, your property, your friends, your family
Once again, she expects this punishment-reward system to be set up for her to conform to.

I quote this user’s description, especially:
"She expects this punishment-reward system to be set up for her to conform to."

It perfectly reflects what You can see in real life: the carrot-and-stick approach works, but it doesn’t build respectful relationships. This system needs to be used differently.

I've seen it too many times, with women, with kids, and in business.
People don’t respect you because they see a leader in you, but because they fear you and submit.

This is a type of leadership, but not the right one that builds relationships with people.

 

[BaronOfHair]

People don’t respect you because they see a leader in you, but because they fear you and submit

Yeah, we humans don't rule the planet because we're nice, and we generally don't behave like anything other than f-c-ing monkeys, UNLESS we recognize that there will be repercussions for acting a fool. Such is life

 

[Gamisch]

Sorry y'all. Was extremely busy as juli was my best month yet, 31 days ,full agenda with jobs at least 12 hours per day. Let's get it.

Yup the world doesn't owe you sh*t. But go out and forge your way and be a man of value and you'll soon find lots of people want to follow you. It all starts with attitude.

There are too many men who put the "submission" part first because they aren't truly free. They just want to jump from mommy to wifey.

Some cultures force this submission (arranged marriages etc.). One such place I'm very familiar with. Two things usually happen. The woman grows to resent her husband because he remained an aimless child, or she grows to respect him because he did in fact mature and lead. Unfortunately places like this can be extreme and condone domestic violence so there's not much alternative. Bad cultural setup for both men and women.

The RP knows that love is conditional. Same goes for submission. It's just a manosphere code word for what women call commitment. So stop being a little bytch and complaining that women don't submit (read: commit/love) and start living a life worthy of it.

That's why dating is where it is today. Most men only know how to FORCE a woman into submission and next they wonder why they're dealing with a cranky woman on a daily..fecking idiots. I've seen my friends fall for this trap like leaves in autumn.

I agree that all is temporary. Friendship love, even family ties. Yet the power and ability to walk away when needed is actually the glue that can keep a woman in her submissive state.

Mind you, just like we love to provide, women love to submit and look up to the right man. But imo this type of men is BUILT and seldom born like that.

 

[Gamisch]

Interesting. When he starts thinking this…he’s already beyond help. He cares about the outcome. There is no end game. Being worshipped is a feminine goal. That’s how delusional they are.

Every human wants and even needs some amount of worship. Even if it is from oneself.

Imo your qoute is cope. Why wouldn't a man like to be worshipped? If you about that life( aka you make shyte happen) you will see that people worshipping you is a byproduct. E.g if you git the gym religiously for years at some point a skinny teenager will worship your discipline and ask you how you got there. All humans want progress and smart people know they should NOT reinvent the wheel .

Again, if you do experience total submission you'll see that the woman will worship you like youre a God or a king and she'll be honoured to be around you. All results from working the hardest .

 

[Gamisch]

Expect all circumstances and relationship dynamic to constantly be in a state of flux. One day a woman would do anything for you, the next day she might not.

The only thing in our control is to be help yourself and her grow. Feeling dominant and superior in a dynamic is often how fools get played. Don’t get blindsided. Focus on your purpose, let the chips fall as they may.

I agree ..yet let's keep it real; eventually you WILL spent m.e.a.t. on a a woman. Let me throw in a food metaphor. Eventually you will eat, so why not eat something nice that provides you with a pleasant experience?

If you will spent let's say a year with a woman, why not have her treat you like a king vs running behind one who makes your life even harder? Yes they might walk away. Yet you'll take whatever experience you got with you into the next relationship.

Again, most of my " friends" only know about running behind and chasing women that never REALLY liked them and now they believe it's normal to deal with cranky ,disrespectful and condescending women.

 

[Gamisch]

I quote this user’s description, especially:
"She expects this punishment-reward system to be set up for her to conform to."

It perfectly reflects what You can see in real life: the carrot-and-stick approach works, but it doesn’t build respectful relationships. This system needs to be used differently.

I've seen it too many times, with women, with kids, and in business.
People don’t respect you because they see a leader in you, but because they fear you and submit.

This is a type of leadership, but not the right one that builds relationships with people.

Good point, submission isn't necessarily born out of respect.

Imo submission due to fear is extremely fragile. Eventually the other side will (try to) break free.

 

[darksprezzatura]

Again, most of my " friends" only know about running behind and chasing women that never REALLY liked them and now they believe it's normal to deal with cranky ,disrespectful and condescending women.

Who you surround yourself with has a major impact on what you consider acceptable.

 

[Beyond It]

Every human wants and even needs some amount of worship. Even if it is from oneself.

Imo your qoute is cope. Why wouldn't a man like to be worshipped? If you about that life( aka you make shyte happen) you will see that people worshipping you is a byproduct. E.g if you git the gym religiously for years at some point a skinny teenager will worship your discipline and ask you how you got there. All humans want progress and smart people know they should NOT reinvent the wheel .

Again, if you do experience total submission you'll see that the woman will worship you like youre a God or a king and she'll be honoured to be around you. All results from working the hardest .

Been there. It’s weird and somewhat smothering. As an overall concept it’s ok but that would be your need for validation. Desire is enough. She is for s3x. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Muscles and money doesn’t keep women around. Thinking like that would be what you call “cope”. But continue on.

 

[Gamisch]

Been there. It’s weird and somewhat smothering. As an overall concept it’s ok but that would be your need for validation. Desire is enough. She is for s3x. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Muscles and money doesn’t keep women around. Thinking like that would be what you call “cope”. But continue on.

I don't believe women are only good for sex BUT I'm also willing to admit that might be the hardwired beta simp inside of me talking rather than my most factual and logical side...

It is indeed smothering to have a woman worshipping you, while simultaneously it's ALSO smothering to just be lusting while getting none..loneliness can also be a bytch...tricking ( hookers) isn't for anybody, personally it affects my self esteem. That all being said imo there will never be a " perfect " solution when it comes to women and their role in a man's life.

 

[Vanderdonck]

It is indeed smothering to have a woman worshipping you, while simultaneously it's ALSO smothering to just be lusting while getting none..loneliness can also be a bytch...tricking ( hookers) isn't for anybody, personally it affects my self esteem. That all being said imo there will never be a " perfect " solution when it comes to women and their role in a man's life.

Depends on the level of worship, her self-respect, and some other factors. Some forms of worship can be exhausting and smothering like you said. I prefer something more like hard core respect. But maybe it's just semantics.