She lost interest after I talked about my boundaries

[MatureDJ]

Hi everyone,

had already 6 dates with this 31 year old girl but no sex yet. She is an attractive, old fashioned kind of girl who wants to take it slow. Invited her to my place but she said that she isn't ready for that. The dates were really good, a lot of laughing, touching, light kissing. We always had good and interesting conversations and the connection was great.

Everything seemed to go well until the topic of friends of the opposite sex came up on the last date. She has some male friends, one of them is her best male friend and they know each other for 11 years. I told her, that I dont't want my future girlfriend to talk to any male friends because that always leads to problems in the relationship. Told her, if a woman wants to be with me, she has to drop these kind of friendships. Told her, that most of the time the "male friend" wants more and is just waiting for an opportunity. She told me that she is not attracted to her best male friend and that he never made a move. She can't understand my point of view, told me that it is about trust and that her male friend is like a brother to her. I told her I believe her but it is about respect, not about trust. She told me that i seem like a jelous, possesive man who isn't sure of himself. I told her she is wrong, it is just about respect and healthy boundaries.

At the end of the date she seemed a bit cold and distant. When I text her, it is the same. She is still responding but has lost interest I think. I know I should't have come up with this topic before sex happened but I did. Maybe you will tell me to leave her alone if she isn't the kind of woman I like but I would love to have her as a plate. Is it possible to keep her and if yes, how do I act from now on? Should I tell her that I thought about it and understood that my boundaries are exaggerated? Should I tell her that she was right and that I won't tell her to end her friendship? Should I say what she wants to hear just to keep her? Or should I say nothing about it and just suggest a new meetup? Like I said I am not interested in a relationship with her but would like to have her as a plate.

What do you think?

Regards
summersky

I would softly ghost her until she is completely off the radar. If she comes sniffing around after that, be a little on the aggressive side.

 

[MatureDJ]

Falls under the category of "Desperate Dudes Do Desperate Things"

Or

A man with no options acts like he has no options.

 

[MatureDJ]

I have been disappointed that none of these girlfriends/wives of my local area friends/acquaintances have ever tried to introduce me to someone to spark up a relationship.

This is because they know that their friends would consider you undesirable. They wouldn't even try to throw fatties at you?

 

[MatureDJ]

Who told you that? She did? A woman will drop everything for a man she really likes, you don't know what you're saying.

This is pretty much it. Unfortunately for me, the 2 women that did this for me were bat-guano insane.

 

[MatureDJ]

You saw her 6 times, there was no sex (even not a lot of kino), you presented her your idea about relationship. She provided you with her idea and offended you. At this point, even w/o sex, she should be at least ready to go to your place and be on the same page with you when it comes to relationship.

Btw. She is taking its slow only with you. She is looking for obedient man that will accept she might want to have male friends irrespective of having boyfriend.

Verdict: Go no contact, let her look for someone else and let yourself find more loyal type ("wife material") as she is not one for you. This kind of women was never compatible with me. Btw. You are right, I am the same and my wife is the same - we do not need opposite sex friends as you are supposed to be her best friend as well - not some other guy. That's mature approach to personal life.

If you are looking for wife material no sex after 6 dates is not a red flag as long as she is sending you green lights in remaining areas (you are kissing, touching, she likes you, she wants to be with you, she is responsive and positive about you, you agree on most of the important topics etc.). Wife material or serious LTR material is like driving constantly on green lights (except sex green light may be further than closer to you - especially if the woman is a virgin) - alas, if she is not a virgin delaying sex past 5th or 6th date usually means you are not considered as great option.

Also, remember that, counterintuitively, gaming in 30-35 age bracket is tougher than gaming in 23-28 bracket (28-30 being transformation years between brackets).

I think she basically has him in her orbit, ready to boost him to a higher orbit (i.e., that means being demoted) whenever a better prospect comes along - and such that if when she starts putting on the pounds, she will suddenly be more interested in nooky.

 

[MatureDJ]

... my longest tenured male friends have been steadfast in my life for 40 years and 34 years respectively. The 34 year friendship is with a man I dated for a year at 22. We split and after some time became friends. We've seen each other marry & have kids with other people. Awesome. We want the best for one another. My husband met one of my close male friends the night I met him (I was out with a mixed group including my friend).

No way on Earth I'd ever give up a great friend of many years over some dude I met a month ago and had 6 dates with. I'd think "who the hell do you think you are? These people have been friends of mine for years through thick & thin."

The problem with having close personal friends of the attractive sex (opposite sex for cishet, LOL) and trying to get into a relationship is that your new lover has to be superior to all those friends, otherwise it's like an arranged marriage with a little sex at the beginning just to fertilize the eggs. Exceptions to this rule are if the friend is homosexual, like (or actually) a relative, and a long-time office colleague - OR if there is an obvious Sexual Market Value mismatch (e.g., a hot chick can have an incel-tier friend, etc., LOL).

 

[Solomon]

OP is the same guy who took a woman on 6 dates, hoping to have sex but doing "Nice guy game" instead of being more direct which is high risk/high reward.
OP doesn't know how to sexually escalate, much less vet or screen for the type of women he wants
He puts up with attractive women who dictate the frame, and also wastes his time and resources and it's his fault. If you want to clap checks be hoenst in 2025 there are women who will hook up on the first meet etc. OP rather go about it the long way circa 1995 style.
The fact that OP was even able to get 6 dates with 1 woman is amazing to me most likely the woman had another dude in the tuck who was blowing her back out

Regardless OP's game/mindsety/approach is his problem not women

 

[DJ Novice]

By six dates there needs to be some serious physical intimacy. If not s*x then very close to it. Not just holding hands, light kissing etc.

Some girls take longer than others to be comfortable having s*x. The general consensus amongst women I have spoken to is that if there’s no serious physical escalation by the sixth date there never will be.

It’s up to you as the guy to take the lead in escalating physically over time. Women rarely will take the lead; they usually respond to your moves (either positively or negatively).

Bottom line - if there’s no serious physical intimacy after six dates move on and cut your losses.

 

[SW15]

I have been disappointed that none of these girlfriends/wives of my local area friends/acquaintances have ever tried to introduce me to someone to spark up a relationship.

This is because they know that their friends would consider you undesirable. They wouldn't even try to throw fatties at you?

Your analysis isn't entirely correct.

Each girlfriend/wife of my local area friends/acquaintances has a different background and situation. I don't have enough time to go into the specifics of each one. There are some common themes.

Before I detail these themes, it's important to answer the question about fatties. None of the girlfriends/wives ever tried to set me up with an overweight woman that they knew.

Most of the girlfriends/wives over the years have had weak social circles. They were adult transplants to this city and didn't have any real good options for a setup for me.

There was also another incident where a wife of a friend didn't set me up with one of her female co-worker because her co-worker was 30+ at the time she was last single, was seeking marriage/family quickly, and also would not have liked how fast I move to sex. This is a woman who had a history of prudishness that I didn't know before I expressed interest in a setup with her. She did marry a beta bucks guy and have a baby with him quickly. While she would have likely found me desirable physically, she would not have found my persona to be desirable based on her long term goals.

 

[BeExcellent]

While she would have likely found me desirable physically, she would not have found my persona to be desirable based on her long term goals.

Exactly. This point is one many men fail to grasp. Why? Lack of understanding of female POV for responsible, sensible females.

Women who are marriage and family oriented learn to screen with an eye toward long term life goals and are always functioning from that context. If you do not line up with her long term goals and she has self restraint and prioritizes her long term goals then she will be unlikely to waste time on dead end dudes.

Players and guys looking for a quick lay (or fast lay) go in the "dead end dudes" bucket often even if she finds the dead end dude attractive.

Floozies don't get this. They think allowing quick sex will get them a man (it might). But then the guy moves on when a really great girl who values herself shows up.

Quick sex often translates to premature emotional bonding before she knows the man well enough to decide if he mets the long term goals. This is unwise from a woman's POV for any number of reasons; chief among them is premature vulnerability in that insufficient time/effort (investment) has occured on the man's part......and because he has not had to invest? He has not assigned her sufficient value ....so its easy for him to move on and leave her hurting.

Fathers. Explain the above to your daughters!!!!

Wife worthy women ALWAYS keep the long term goals top of mind in mate selection....because dating is for the purpose of mate selection, not casual hook ups.

So guys will miss out on great women because they are too focused on short term goals (sex ASAP).

 

[Vanderdonck]

Everything seemed to go well until the topic of friends of the opposite sex came up on the last date. She has some male friends, one of them is her best male friend and they know each other for 11 years. I told her, that I dont't want my future girlfriend to talk to any male friends because that always leads to problems in the relationship. Told her, if a woman wants to be with me, she has to drop these kind of friendships. Told her, that most of the time the "male friend" wants more and is just waiting for an opportunity. She told me that she is not attracted to her best male friend and that he never made a move. She can't understand my point of view, told me that it is about trust and that her male friend is like a brother to her. I told her I believe her but it is about respect, not about trust. She told me that i seem like a jelous, possesive man who isn't sure of himself. I told her she is wrong, it is just about respect and healthy boundaries.

First, it's giving boyfriend vibes before you had sex.

Second, it's giving jealousy vibes.

Your boundaries are your own, I won't tell you what they should be. But IMO telling a girl what she can and cannot do is not going to work and comes across as controlling.

I set boundaries for myself, not for my girl. She can do whatever the feck she wants, we all can. If she crosses a major line I'll decide how I will respond and how I will proceed. You can't set a boundary around another person (except kids who don't understand leverage or how to eliminate desire).

All this to say if you want a girl who doesn't believe in platonic male friends, find that girl. They do exist.

 

[jhonny9546]

We never wanted each other sexually.

For me it's just a matter of time.
Try again in 10 years.. people change, get better, get worse, etc, and you might find attraction then.

This guy did nothing wrong.
He didn't have a high interest in you.

Orbiters should never concern you.

I mean You should not care, but at the same time You care becauser you've boundaries.
Then, She cheat on you with one of her orbiters, and then you two breakup.
Or worse.
She will go out with the orbiters and she will cheat on you, but you'll never get to know about.
I like your POV on orbiters, but could you tell us more?

 

[SW15]

This point is one many men fail to grasp. Why? Lack of understanding of female POV for responsible, sensible females.

Women who are marriage and family oriented learn to screen with an eye toward long term life goals and are always functioning from that context. If you do not line up with her long term goals and she has self restraint and prioritizes her long term goals then she will be unlikely to waste time on dead end dudes.

If one were to look at her social media profile right now (which I did in order to write this), she would come off as a responsible, sensible female. However, social media is a highlight reel. Red pill divorce attorney James Sexton has commented that he has seen quite happy looking social media profile people in his office.

Her social media profile is about her Beta Bucks husband and having kids.

It did sort of hurt to be called a "dead end dude", but it's not entirely inaccurate. I would have been at best 2-3 year relationship for her, no marriage, no kids. While I would not have pumped & dumped a social circle connection, I think my reputation as a serial monogamist and sometimes short term sexual option was a factor in why my friend's wife might not have assisted me in this situation.

While I said she was 30+ when this happened, that wasn't generally but not fully happened. She was late 20s when I was interested and this incident happened. Her age would have lined up perfectly with Rollo Tomassi's "Epiphany Phase" (late 20s/early 30s). My guess that she was 30+ (I thought she was early 30s) was about right.

The Epiphany Phase

When I was detailing the landscape of our contemporary sexual marketplace in Navigating the SMP there comes a point on women’s SMV (sexual market value) progression where she becomes cognizan…

therationalmale.com

guys will miss out on great women because they are too focused on short term goals (sex ASAP).

It is unknown if she was/is a great woman. It's also unknown if we would have had more than 1-2 dates. My friend said that she likely would have found me to be more sexually fast moving that she would have desired.

Wife worthy women ALWAYS keep the long term goals top of mind in mate selection....because dating is for the purpose of mate selection, not casual hook ups.

She was unattached in the Epiphany Phase (late 20s/early 30s). It's difficult to say if she was wife worthy. If she was more wife worthy, she might have gotten snapped up earlier.

Quick sex often translates to premature emotional bonding before she knows the man well enough to decide if he mets the long term goals. This is unwise from a woman's POV for any number of reasons; chief among them is premature vulnerability in that insufficient time/effort (investment) has occured on the man's part......and because he has not had to invest? He has not assigned her sufficient value ....so its easy for him to move on and leave her hurting.

This would be more of women's dualistic mating strategy that Rollo Tomassi has mentioned countless times.

It is summarized as "Alpha Fux, Beta Bucks". I have fallen more on the Alpha Fux side as a more introverted sigma male. This has carried me to an above average lifetime notch count. Compared to the general public of mainly blue pilled beta males, I have a lifetime notch count somewhere in the 90th + percentile.

It is better to be an alpha or sigma male who is getting the sex and getting to sex fast. I have never had to wait more than 3 dates for sex.

The guy who ended up marrying and having kids with that woman waited more than 3 dates for sex.

I have seen examples of the "leave her hurting" part. For instance, I once overheard a female fitness class instructor talking to a female class attendee about her disastrous experiences on swipe apps after one fitness class I attended. This class instructor was 30 years old when she had that conversation. It is likely she had been riding the penis carousel and getting sex from elite tier men. This fitness instructor has had a good physique and solid facial aesthetics. It was evident there was hurt on her part. I was a casual observer in this incident as I was focused on hitting on other class attendees that day.

 

[Prepostereax]

I mean You should not care, but at the same time You care becauser you've boundaries.
Then, She cheat on you with one of her orbiters, and then you two breakup.
Or worse.
She will go out with the orbiters and she will cheat on you, but you'll never get to know about.
I like your POV on orbiters, but could you tell us more?

Alright, an example of each, non-orbiter vs orbiter:

A flirty FWB of mine (prior to my marriage of course) had spilled evidence that she was contacting her ex.
This is a guy, allegedly an ahole, who she'd been fcking not long before I was on the scene.
Not an orbiter.
As soon as I put 2+2 together, I drove straight to her place and demanded my housekeys, which she handed over, no questions asked.
[since this tart is attracted to actual bad boys, with criminal connections, I figured I dodged an actual bullet there, or a spray of 00 at the very least..]

Contrast this to my wife, a very attractive introvert who has been feted by several suitors.
She was not having sex with any of them at the time, being rather picky.
Soon after she chose me, my then-gf unilaterally announced that she was cutting contact with these other guys.
I kinda shrugged inside, it didn't bother me whether she saw them or not..
Because they were orbiters.
[however I did take the hint, and in the spirit of reciprocation, I reduced contact with the flirtiest of my single/divorced female friends]

 

[Divorced w 3]

I have been disappointed that none of these girlfriends/wives of my local area friends/acquaintances have ever tried to introduce me to someone to spark up a relationship.

it’s never going to happen. If they do, it’s going to be a single mom or it’s going to be someone over 30 and has had serial dating issues. these women you are hoping will hook you up are the partners of you’re friends , the women themselves are not your friends.

you can try asking, they still aren’t going to do it. Nor do you want them to at their phase considering their orbit. If you want a wife you need to fish in different water, with different bait.

you can try asking these social circle women but you need to change your Early Frame Announcement to something more along the lines of “professional man who enjoys cutting be lawn and quiet dinner on Saturday night, home by 10”

 

[Mike32ct]

Each girlfriend/wife of my local area friends/acquaintances has a different background and situation. I don't have enough time to go into the specifics of each one. There are some common themes.

Before I detail these themes, it's important to answer the question about fatties. None of the girlfriends/wives ever tried to set me up with an overweight woman that they knew.

There are many reasons why women friends/acquaintances won’t hook you up with other women:

1. The idea that women enjoy being matchmakers is greatly overstated. It might even be a myth for all I know. Most have zero interest in this. The few that enjoy it are rare.

2. They don’t want the “responsibility” if things don’t work out. They don’t want to get blamed or feel bad if the guy isn’t exactly what her girl friend was looking for. Or if she gets pumped and dumped.

3. For a lot of women, if you aren’t HER exact type, it’s hard for her to picture you being another chick’s type. This is a weird one that is hard to explain.

 

[SW15]

I have been disappointed that none of these girlfriends/wives of my local area friends/acquaintances have ever tried to introduce me to someone to spark up a relationship.

it’s never going to happen.

You're correct. At this point, none of the wives in my social circle are going to provide social circle introductions. That subject hasn't even come up in a long time. I've had even less contact with many of the wives of my friends/acquaintances in recent years, especially the ones mentioned in the "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere" thread who are wives with younger children.

Prior to moving to my current city and starting my current social circle, I had extensive mating environment experience. On the day I arrived in my current city, I was in my late 20s and had 10+ years of mating experience. I had enough time by then to put up a solid notch count. In the past 10+ years, I have added to that notch count, getting me to the 90th + percentile of all men in terms of lifetime notch count.

The lack of getting social circle introductions hasn't stopped me from getting laid. I think it has made my overall process more difficult.

I prefer longer term arrangements. It is easier to get a longer term girlfriend from social circles than it is from approaching strangers, sending DMs, and swipe apps.

these women you are hoping will hook you up are the partners of you’re friends , the women themselves are not your friends.

That's correct. I'm mostly on good terms with the wives of my male friends/acquaintances. I'm not the friend on any of these women and that was true years ago when they were in the girlfriend phase before they became wives in a number of the cases.

If they do, it’s going to be a single mom or it’s going to be someone over 30 and has had serial dating issues.

I have a difficult time envisioning getting an offer to go on a date with a single mom. I don't think the wives of my friends/acquaintances know many single moms right now. Most of them appear to be in a married woman/married mom bubble.

I have zero interest in dating a single mom. It doesn't make sense for a childless man to date a single mom. It's a poor fit.

I could envision getting an offer to date someone 30+ with serial dating issues. It could happen from the far fringes of my social circle. I can't think of anyone who would make that offer to me right now.

If you want a wife you need to fish in different water, with different bait.

Why would I want to get married as a 40 something guy, especially to a similarly aged woman?

I am more interested in a serially monogamous girlfriend than a wife at this point.

There is no benefit to me marrying at this point in life as an early 40s never married and childless man.

you can try asking these social circle women but you need to change your Early Frame Announcement to something more along the lines of “professional man who enjoys cutting be lawn and quiet dinner on Saturday night, home by 10”

We can have a discussion about my Early Frame Announcement. What you've described isn't my Early Frame Announcement, even if I am home by 10 PM on many nights.

I think my EFA has been more of the good looking and fun guy.

When women meet a man 40+ who hasn't been married, hasn't had kids, and lives in an urban apartment, they don't get the perception of a boring man who does housework and doesn't go out late at night.

1. The idea that women enjoy being matchmakers is greatly overstated. It might even be a myth for all I know. Most have zero interest in this. The few that enjoy it are rare.

Why do you think this? I think this point is an interesting point that can discussed.

The broader statistics have shown that fewer people are meeting romantic partners from their social circles. Meeting romantic partners from social circles has been declining since the 1990s.

With Millennials and Gen Z having worse social skills than prior generations, this makes sense.

Nevertheless, I know multiple long term couples formed via social circle.

2. They don’t want the “responsibility” if things don’t work out. They don’t want to get blamed or feel bad if the guy isn’t exactly what her girl friend was looking for. Or if she gets pumped and dumped.

I agree with this. I think there is some hesitation due to the fear of things not working out. This fear is mainly related to things not working out in the short term, like 1-2 dates or maybe a couple of months.

If a social circle formed couple lasts 1-4 years, I think there's less in the way of bad feelings.

3. For a lot of women, if you aren’t HER exact type, it’s hard for her to picture you being another chick’s type. This is a weird one that is hard to explain.

I disagree with this. I think women can see if a guy is appealing in general, even if he wouldn't appeal to her specific situation.

 

[Solomon]

3. For a lot of women, if you aren’t HER exact type, it’s hard for her to picture you being another chick’s type. This is a weird one that is hard to explain.

I actually agree with this granted my experience with this anecdoteal but this explains the mother hen/****blocka phenomenon perfectly it's not that the other woman is jealous of the guy hitting on her friend; she is jealous because her friend is getting Attention or validation but each situation obviously is different

 

[BaronOfHair]

"She lost interest after I talked about my boundaries"

Invoking Therapy Speak while trying to access some broad's panties is similar to introducing AIDs into village in rural Botswana... Both lead only to obliteration

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Exactly. This point is one many men fail to grasp. Why? Lack of understanding of female POV for responsible, sensible females.

Women who are marriage and family oriented learn to screen with an eye toward long term life goals and are always functioning from that context. If you do not line up with her long term goals and she has self restraint and prioritizes her long term goals then she will be unlikely to waste time on dead end dudes.

Players and guys looking for a quick lay (or fast lay) go in the "dead end dudes" bucket often even if she finds the dead end dude attractive.

Floozies don't get this. They think allowing quick sex will get them a man (it might). But then the guy moves on when a really great girl who values herself shows up.

Quick sex often translates to premature emotional bonding before she knows the man well enough to decide if he mets the long term goals. This is unwise from a woman's POV for any number of reasons; chief among them is premature vulnerability in that insufficient time/effort (investment) has occured on the man's part......and because he has not had to invest? He has not assigned her sufficient value ....so its easy for him to move on and leave her hurting.

Fathers. Explain the above to your daughters!!!!

Wife worthy women ALWAYS keep the long term goals top of mind in mate selection....because dating is for the purpose of mate selection, not casual hook ups.

So guys will miss out on great women because they are too focused on short term goals (sex ASAP).

Most guys screen for ho's then wonder why they find them so often. Comical really.