Michael Sartain: Approaching Strangers is Dead

[Plinco]

I'm almost 50% older, and this is my problem as well.

And what have you done about it?

 

[Manure Spherian]

The general gym floor and fitness classes at a gym are different approach venues. General gym floor is more difficult due to earbuds/headphones.

When I say the gym, I mean asking out a woman that is routinely seen and asked out after being acquainted with in some way, not cold approached.

When I say work, despite false sexual harassment claims, I mean asking out a woman who seems normal and has given flagrant IOI’s. It doesn’t have to be a coworker. It can be a woman who routinely visits one’s workplace.

In any case, I believe middle aged men who’ve been married and perhaps have kids, unless they are seriously defective, can likely find new partners somehow.

 

[CoolWave1331]

I’ve been pushing this a lot on here. Mating and dating is a young person’s game. This stuff needs to be figured out young.

It makes sense - if a man doesn't figure it out when he's young he's going to have a very hard time when older...it's fine to make mistakes when young but after certain point one is expected to know these things.

Someone mention how it looks bad middle aged and older men date single mom's etc....real talk this is who is probably most appropriate for them. People generally relate best to others their own age....younger, desirable women are interested in the men their own age. Do they date older guys? Yes, but older in this case means like 5 years, not 15. A 29 year old guy dating dating 23 year old girl is no problem, no one cares. 40 year old dating same 23 year old....many women won't go for this and a lot of people will look at funny.

I can remember my experiences as teen / young adult. There were girls who would laugh and pick on me...accent and stuff because I spent part of childhood in Ukraine. I used to dislike them for it but now I realize they liked me. I know this because some of them I met later in life and they were very nice and even gave # without me asking. Same in college, would get opportunities without doing anything, just wa in the right place at the right time. There is no magic to this stuff - you simply have to take advantage of the opportunities as they come. This why time is not for wasting.

 

[SW15]

Reasonably speaking, from your post here, a middle aged man should then go MGTOW. Give up.

MGTOW isn't the solution if he's got height, hair, and money (the @Mike32ct keys to success) for middle aged men in mating.

In general, it depends on how good looking a specific middle aged man is and how much money he has. Money takes on more importance for men 35+ as both similarly aged women and 10+ year younger women start to judge men more on money.

I don't think giving up is the solution for all middle aged men, but it might be applicable for someone.

When I say the gym, I mean asking out a woman that is routinely seen and asked out after being acquainted with in some way, not cold approached.

Getting acquainted initially can be tough at a lot of gyms with women using earbuds/headphones to reduce any socialization. I also don't see a lot of same women over and over again at my gym. This might depend on a man's specific gym.

It's possible to get IOIs from a woman wearing earbuds/headphones but it's usually going to take a better than average physique. It might even take an elite physique.

When I say work, despite false sexual harassment claims, I mean asking out a woman who seems normal and has given flagrant IOI’s. It doesn’t have to be a coworker. It can be a woman who routinely visits one’s workplace.

It's a decent idea to approach women who work for other companies in the same work building. I've done that many times, though usually without flagrant IOIs. With more work at home going on, these opportunities are reduced.

Female co-workers in white collar spaces rarely give strong IOIs.

Co-worker approaches are more warm approaches whereas randomly approaching other women in the same building are cold approaches. The latter approaches are the ones that Michael Sartain would likely claim as dead.

I believe middle aged men who’ve been married and perhaps have kids, unless they are seriously defective, can likely find new partners somehow.

There are multiple segments of middle aged men.

1. Never married, childless: I'm in this one.
2. Previously married, childless:
3. Never married, but children from previous relationships: In the USA, this is more common in Black and Hispanic communities. However, there are some Whites who would fit this.
4. Previously married with children

Segment 4 is likely the most common and those guys often end up with single moms. Segment 1 guys are growing fast with Millennials entering middle age, though there are also some Segment 2 Millennials.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Segment 4 is likely the most common and those guys often end up with single moms

It’s an appropriate fit because segment 4 is single dads.

 

[Divorced w 3]

For those unaware, Michael Sartain is Rollo Tomassi's co-host on the Access Vegas podcast.

In this video, Michael Sartain claims that approaching strangers in real life does not result in sex and extended relationships with attractive women ages 18-24. The only way Sartain claims that approaching a stranger or using a dating app would work on attractive 18-24 year olds is if you are in the 95th percentile + of looks.

Sartain does claim that women 35+ are more likely to be more option to real life approaches or meeting strangers on dating apps.

Sartain also claims that dating apps are dead too for most men.

Is approaching strangers in real life dead?

Sartain claims that the way to get attractive younger women to have sex and get into extended relationships is through social circle building or by cultivating an amazing Instagram profile and sending DMs.

I met a woman maybe ten years ago, I was in a jeep, her car had died. Surprising she got in my vehicle and I drove her to the next gas station to get help. Her friends supposedly told her she was bananas for doing that, but long story short we hooked up all summer. True story. She went to manhattan college, maybe this was fifteen years ago. This is the most dramatic but not the only time I’ve met strangers and taken it the distance. The word hello is incredible powerful lol. These videos, are nothing but clickbait. People need to narrate their existence into their audience psyche. Stop promoting all this dogma. It’s not helpful.

I like you but I’m seriously wondering if you’re a Rollo plant. You feed a lot of his stuff into the board but very little, if ever, does research support your definitive statements, and make no mistake they are definitive statements. They’re not theory, they’re not open ended.

 

[SW15]

It’s an appropriate fit because segment 4 is single dads.

It is an appropriate fit. I don't talk about that much because I'm not a single dad. I don't have experience dating as single dad.

The childless, middle aged guys are in a difficult spot. Even with Millennials being more likely to be childless, the majority of women born in the mid to late 1980s now have children. Men born from 1982-1987 are going to have a more difficult time finding childless women to date. I was born in that age range and the vast majority of my interactions are with childless women. I rarely ever encounter a single mom when I go out and seek new women.

Some of the 1982-1987 born men can date young enough to find someone childless.

 

[pipeman84]

I’ve been pushing this a lot on here. Mating and dating is a young person’s game. This stuff needs to be figured out young.

I disagree with this. I know you're describing what's common nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's normal or good. After all, being fat, 2 pay checks away from broke, sickly and overly medicated is also common.
Aristotle said it 2300 years ago ... ideal age for a man to get married is when he's about 37 with a woman who's about 18. I believe that accounts much better for the biological differences in males/females and their traditional roles in the family. In other words, a man needs time to gather life experience, maturity, wealth in order to be able to be the leader of his family. A woman needs the youthful innocence and fertility.

But what do we see nowadays? At best, same aged couples formed in high-school or college where the man lacks the maturity to lead and instead of being free to conquer the world (figuratively speaking) he's being fenced in and has to play house. At worst, there are the same aged (or where the woman is older) couples formed in their mid/late 30s or 40s.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I disagree with this. I know you're describing what's common nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's normal or good. After all, being fat, 2 pay checks away from broke, sickly and overly medicated is also common.
Aristotle said it 2300 years ago ... ideal age for a man to get married is when he's about 37 with a woman who's about 18. I believe that accounts much better for the biological differences in males/females and their traditional roles in the family. In other words, a man needs time to gather life experience, maturity, wealth in order to be able to be the leader of his family. A woman needs the youthful innocence and fertility.

But what do we see nowadays? At best, same aged couples formed in high-school or college where the man lacks the maturity to lead and instead of being free to conquer the world (figuratively speaking) he's being fenced in and has to play house. At worst, there are the same aged (or where the woman is older) couples formed in their mid/late 30s or 40s.

Aristotle and his contemporaries needed youth around the farm to keep things running and care for them in their old age - and pregnancy was not a sure thing then, nor was success of making it out of adolescence. That’s not the world we are in today.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If nobody is used to social approaching anymore then one of two things is likely true:

Well-executed approaching should have a much higher success rate as it’s a novelty

Seduction is dead. Shut down SoSuave

 

[pipeman84]

Aristotle and his contemporaries needed youth around the farm to keep things running and care for them in their old age - and pregnancy was not a sure thing then, nor was success of making it out of adolescence. That’s not the world we are in today.

So what's the brave new world? One in which a man at the top of his SMV gets together with a woman with crashed SMV and try for a baby via IVF? And in his old age is being bilked by 'care' homes staffed with underpaid foreigners while the children from the blended families are waiting for him to die so they can start fighting over what's left of the estate?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Well-executed approaching should have a much higher success rate as it’s a novelty

That's been my experience, ESPECIALLY post-lockdown: So few men are approaching, competition is miniscule, and the most beautiful women are ecstatic upon receiving positive male attention

 

[Manure Spherian]

That's been my experience, ESPECIALLY post-lockdown: So few men are approaching, competition is miniscule, and the most beautiful women are ecstatic upon receiving positive male attention

What has come out of such approaches?

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

I disagree with this. I know you're describing what's common nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's normal or good. After all, being fat, 2 pay checks away from broke, sickly and overly medicated is also common.
Aristotle said it 2300 years ago ... ideal age for a man to get married is when he's about 37 with a woman who's about 18. I believe that accounts much better for the biological differences in males/females and their traditional roles in the family. In other words, a man needs time to gather life experience, maturity, wealth in order to be able to be the leader of his family. A woman needs the youthful innocence and fertility.

But what do we see nowadays? At best, same aged couples formed in high-school or college where the man lacks the maturity to lead and instead of being free to conquer the world (figuratively speaking) he's being fenced in and has to play house. At worst, there are the same aged (or where the woman is older) couples formed in their mid/late 30s or 40s.

A man age from 16-24 is basically retarded. I dont regret havin gsex with hot young girls during that age but i shouldve spent more time alone maturing more.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What has come out of such approaches?

Many nights in the arms of some of the foxiest ladies walking this planet

 

[Plinco]

Many nights in the arms of some of the foxiest ladies walking this planet

Walking around Sydney Australia

 

[MatureDJ]

And what have you done about it?

Well, I haven't started dating women my age, if that is what you are trying to say.

 

[MatureDJ]

That's been my experience, ESPECIALLY post-lockdown: So few men are approaching, competition is miniscule, and the most beautiful women are ecstatic upon receiving positive male attention

Ooh, maybe this means when I spot a hot chick in the metro and smile at her, she won't go sit down to get away from me?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Ooh, maybe this means when I spot a hot chick in the metro and smile at her, she won't go sit down to get away from me?

Heed the following counsel

It just may bring you closer to snaring some cooter, rather than continually bitching over your height

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I have met Sartain IRL and gone to his Babes In Toyland events. I have also met a lot of his students and guys who take his Men Of Action course. I've also gotten laid by cold approaching girls at Babes In Toyland that his coaches were trying to get with. As a part of his course, he actually tells guys to cold approach and talk to women. A part of being a part of MOA is practically being a club promoter. So for him to say anything bad about cold approach is misleading as his students themselves do cold approach.

The only thing is that with Sartain's MOA, the students have good IGs to offer women as well as access to the nicest parties and events, that is it. The students are however, doing lots and lots of cold approach. A big part of MOA is practically being a club promoter.

One other thing is that Sartain's programs have a lot of survivorship bias. For every top tier successful student, you also have a ton of students who do not make it and are often tens of thousands of dollars short while being far less successful with women. It is a full-time job to do MOA.

The good thing I can say is that compared to PUA guys, his students are often classier people who give value. They will take a high quality pic of you to put on IG and are generally classier people than weirdos.

That being said, most of them do not exactly get a lot of results because:

1. Building a legitimately good IG takes a ton of effort

2. The kinds of women they are going for are doing it for the clout

3. The events take a lot to organize