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3 Reasons why the average man is struggling today

CornbreadFed

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1. The Economic Dead Zone Trap

In today’s world, women often get a head start in their careers. Thanks to early social support, better academic performance, and strong entry level opportunities, many women are ahead of men by the time they reach their mid-twenties. Meanwhile, a lot of men between the ages of 24 and 40 are stuck in what I call the Economic Dead Zone. They are not making enough money to be taken seriously by women their age, and they often lack the time, energy, or freedom to date younger or less financially demanding women.

Picture a World War One battlefield. On one side are younger men, broke men, and low-income guys who still attract women for short term flings/casual entertainment and are viable with the largest dating pool in the market...lower status & young women. On the other side are wealthy and high-status men who get access to almost every woman. In the middle stands the average man. He is decent, hardworking, and stable, but he is ignored by women chasing either fun or status. He is not reckless enough to be exciting, and not rich enough to be seen as long-term potential by women his age making more money than him. He becomes invisible.

Many men try to escape this dead zone by mimicking the broke and reckless crowd. They spend all their time, energy, and money chasing women in an effort to compete. They go out constantly, overextend themselves, and pour resources into validation rather than value. But this only leads to stagnation. They burn out. They fall further behind. And the gap between them and the high-status group continues to grow.

The real way out is different. It starts with accepting the hard truth. A man has to stop chasing attention and start building leverage. That means focusing on career growth, financial strength, personal discipline, and long-term value. The dating market rewards progress, not desperation. When you level up, your options increase. Until then, the dead zone will keep you trapped until you die by a mortar shell.

2. Hypergamy and the SMV Imbalance

Dating today is not local anymore. Thanks to dating apps, social media, and travel culture, the average woman can interact with high-value men across the country or even the world. Women who would have once settled down with someone in their town are now casually dating or hooking up with men well above their own sexual market value. Why? Because they can. And those men are saying yes.

This creates an imbalance. A woman who is a six or seven in looks might be sleeping with men who are nines or tens. That experience raises her expectations. Suddenly, the average guy no longer feels good enough to her, even if he is actually the best match long term. This is not entirely her fault either. These high-value men are giving her attention, showing her a good time, and in some cases even pretending to offer more. As a result, when the average man steps in, she compares him to a fantasy and finds him lacking aka the alpha widow syndrome.

This leads to a dating pool where women hold out for the top five percent of men, while the rest are just SOL.

3. Lack of Game and Male Authenticity

Let’s be honest. Most men today are failing to make a good impression. They do not have social awareness, they lack confidence, and they often present themselves in ways that instantly turn women off. Some are overly passive and afraid to lead. Others try to fake confidence by copying red pill influencers or pretending to be the nice guy, only to turn bitter when things do not go their way.

Think of dating like a job interview. Women are the screeners. They are constantly filtering out guys who give off bad signals. If you come across as insecure, arrogant, or fake, you are getting rejected before you even get a chance to connect. And yes, women are paying attention. I have seen the messages in their dating apps and social media inboxes. I have even made female profiles just to watch how men behave. Most are not even in the running.

Do most women suck and have high standards? Yes, but I cannot just blame women without stating the elephant in the room. The problem is that too many men are either not putting in the work or trying to be someone they are not. If you want better results, you need to improve your real self, not act like a copy of someone else.
 
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Solomon

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Number 3 is spot on and I'm going to say something that is not popular, or talked about much but most men are being raised in single-mother households today so there is no masculine figure in the households. These men have no examples to look to when it comes to what being a man truly is. They may be in touch with their emotional(feminine) side etc however a lot of men struggle because they have been coddled by their mothers and have a naive view on women. Some of us did have fathers in the home but they have not thought you about these things etc. I think men even if you had a beta father in the house tend to be able to learn more about women quickly then guys who were raised by single mothers but there is no evidence for this so I digress on the last two sentences.

Regardless, the single mother epidemic has really left a lot of men clueless about women and hence a lot of men lack experience and nuance in certain areas of life that their fathers should have taught them at a young age.

Another thing is a lot of guys struggle cause they have boring personalities, or negative personalities. From reading some guys on the forum, I wouldn't want to hang out with them either so it doesn't surprise me when women don't. A lot of men underestimate that having a fun or charming personality goes a long frigging way with women.

I recommend anyone to spend a week on the Tinder/Hinge/Bumble reddits. Most men have no clue on how to speak with women, most men come of as boring or try hard. Some of the conversations are painfully cringe to read. A guy who is decent looking who knows how to flirt is going to stand out because a lot of men don't know how to talk to women in an engaging, fun way.
 

Clockwerk50

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Just to touch on points 1, and to a lesser extend 2 and 3, I think we tend to overestimate how many women are actually chasing top-tier, international guys or expecting luxury lifestyles through Instagram, travel, or OF.

Anecdotally, I've met plenty of "normal" women in real life who aren’t looking for wealth or status maxing. They’re open to non-ordinary men within their same SMV bracket (average clout, a personality, a solid physique, emotional maturity, leadership, and a stable career path.)
 

CornbreadFed

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I recommend anyone to spend a week on the Tinder/Hinge/Bumble reddits. Most men have no clue on how to speak with women, most men come of as boring or try hard. Some of the conversations are painfully cringe to read. A guy who is decent looking who knows how to flirt is going to stand out because a lot of men don't know how to talk to women in an engaging, fun way.
I wish men realized how much of a difference merely acting normal with average social IQ would help with them women. I think it is because they are scared women will see them as a "nice guy" and reject or take advantage of them.

Being average is a choice
How do you not be average in today's world? If you think the red pill is still underground, then buddy I do not know what to tell you lol.
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

New_Journey

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They are not making enough money to be taken seriously by women their age
As you said women make more money than men, therefore, they don't care how much money they make, they care about masculinity. Women leave millionaires all the time. Stop spouting bull$hit.

she compares him to a fantasy and finds him lacking aka the alpha widow syndrome.
So what? what are you saying dude? If you are an alpha, you don't need to worry about who she has been with, stoop being so insecure about her past.

The problem is that too many men are either not putting in the work or trying to be someone they are not. If you want better results, you need to improve your real self
This is a cover contract, it will never work. You are pretty much saying to get the girlza you to be X, do X so you can get Y.

You are just a different sneak oil sleazy salesman, with the 6 foot, 6 figs income, 6 pack abs. It helps but there things way more important, that you just can't get, they are earned, like abundance, something you don't have.
 

CornbreadFed

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Just to touch on points 1, and to a lesser extend 2 and 3, I think we tend to overestimate how many women are actually chasing top-tier, international guys or expecting luxury lifestyles through Instagram, travel, or OF.
I agree, with that point. However, the majority of women are meeting these guys through OLD, work, bars, and etc. It doesn't have to be some rich Aladdin Prince, but all it takes is a decent looking guy looking for some low hanging fruit or maybe she is his type, and he will go lower in looks for this particular girl. You also have a lot of pro sports players on the apps going after women. He could be on the bench or practice squad, but to this girl she is getting fvcked and courted by a guy on the New England Patriots or New York Yankees. Why on earth would she settle for an average guy working a 9-5?

Anecdotally, I've met plenty of "normal" women in real life who aren’t looking for wealth or status maxing. They’re open to non-ordinary men within their same SMV bracket (average clout, a personality, a solid physique, emotional maturity, leadership, and a stable career path.)
These guys are offering "fun" and "emotional roller coaster rides" which is something an average 9-5 guy cannot provide to the same extent as a guy not held up by a 9-5 job or any other responsibilities.
 

New_Journey

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t doesn't have to be some rich Aladdin Prince, but all it takes is a decent looking guy looking for some low hanging fruit or maybe she is his type, and he will go lower in looks for this particular girl. You also have a lot of pro sports players on the apps going after women. He could be on the bench or practice squad, but to this girl she is getting fvcked and courted by a guy on the New England Patriots or New York Yankees. Why on earth would she settle for an average guy working a 9-5?
Honestly, with this kind of response you are appear schizophrenic

However, the majority of women are meeting these guys through OLD, work, bars, and etc. It doesn't have to be some rich Aladdin Prince, but all it takes is a decent looking guy looking for some low hanging fruit or maybe she is his type, and he will go lower in looks for this particular girl. You also have a lot of pro sports players on the apps going after women. He could be on the bench or practice squad, but to this girl she is getting fvcked and courted by a guy on the New England Patriots or New York Yankees. Why on earth would she settle for an average guy working a 9-5?
I was an average worker once and I was getting girls easily, actually easier than now, the only thing I was offering was a good d!ck and a game of pool at a local bar. You are a very delusional man.
 

CornbreadFed

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As you said women make more money than men, therefore, they don't care how much money they make, they care about masculinity. Women leave millionaires all the time. Stop spouting bull$hit.
Why are they leaving millionaires? Is it because they were sick of getting cheated on or did he break up with her? Even so, they are leaving millionaires for other millionaires or guys that give them FUN

So what? what are you saying dude? If you are an alpha, you don't need to worry about who she has been with, stoop being so insecure about her past.
A girl with Alpha Widow syndrome is like buying a lemon car. Being an "alpha" will have no effect on the outcome of the situation.

You are just a different sneak oil sleazy salesman, with the 6 foot, 6 figs income, 6 pack abs. It helps but there things way more important, that you just can't get, they are earned, like abundance, something you don't have.
and you are selling a different kind of snake oil with that "abundance" nonsense.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

SW15

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1. The Economic Dead Zone Trap

In today’s world, women often get a head start in their careers. Thanks to early social support, better academic performance, and strong entry level opportunities, many women are ahead of men by the time they reach their mid-twenties. Meanwhile, a lot of men between the ages of 24 and 40 are stuck in what I call the Economic Dead Zone. They are not making enough money to be taken seriously by women their age, and they often lack the time, energy, or freedom to date younger or less financially demanding women.
We had a good thread about what you call the The Economic Dead Zone Trap in 2023-2024 (the thread is now closed). It was about men 30+ who make $75,000 - $125,000.


Let's say a guy is 37 years old and makes $95,000 per year. That's a solid earning man. However, that's not enough money to impress most women. The $75,000 - $125,000 range is not enough money to be considered a rich man to attract substantially younger. It's also not enough money to impress a careerist, childless woman in her 30s/early because she likely makes in that range (if she has a bachelor's degree +, which a childless careerist would usually have) and she's looking to be hypergamous and get a guy making more.

These economic dead zone men often have bachelor's degrees +.

Today, it's best to be a broke, deadbeat guy or a broke guy getting by on looks (like a bouncer or @BPH) or a really rich guy. A slightly above average income guy with a bachelor's or master's degree and a corporate look often struggles.

2. Hypergamy and the SMV Imbalance

This leads to a dating pool where women hold out for the top five percent of men, while the rest are just SOL.
Agree with your conclusions here.

A woman who is a six or seven in looks might be sleeping with men who are nines or tens. That experience raises her expectations. Suddenly, the average guy no longer feels good enough to her, even if he is actually the best match long term. This is not entirely her fault either. These high-value men are giving her attention, showing her a good time, and in some cases even pretending to offer more. As a result, when the average man steps in, she compares him to a fantasy and finds him lacking aka the alpha widow syndrome.
This video is the perfect illustration of that case.


This is a 30 something, average/slightly cute woman getting pissed about not getting a man in the 85th percentile + to commit to her.

However, plenty of those top guys are giving her attention and sex.

most men are being raised in single-mother households today so there is no masculine figure in the households. These men have no examples to look to when it comes to what being a man truly is. They may be in touch with their emotional(feminine) side etc however a lot of men struggle because they have been coddled by their mothers and have a naive view on women.
There are plenty of men 25-44 today (Millennials and early Gen Z) who were raised in single mom households in the 1990s and 2000s and primarily by their mothers prior to the divorce. This was a consequence of Boomer and early Gen X divorces from that era.

Some of us did have fathers in the home but they have not thought you about these things etc. I think men even if you had a beta father in the house tend to be able to learn more about women quickly then guys who were raised by single mothers but there is no evidence for this so I digress on the last two sentences.

Regardless, the single mother epidemic has really left a lot of men clueless about women and hence a lot of men lack experience and nuance in certain areas of life that their fathers should have taught them at a young age.
I've observed Millennial men who grew up with beta Boomer fathers who managed to keep a marriage intact fail in the mating environment of 2000-present.

These beta Boomer fathers who were present in their sons' lives during their 1990s/early 2000s formative years didn't prepare them well for dealing with snowflake Millennial females.

It was worse for Millennial males who watches their beta Boomer fathers receive divorce papers.


I wish men realized how much of a difference merely acting normal with average social IQ would help with them women. I think it is because they are scared women will see them as a "nice guy" and reject or take advantage of them.
I think some of this is true. I think even many blue pill ideology men are aware that being a "nice guy" is a ticket to incel/borderline incel status. I also think you are underestimating how many average social IQ men are generally ignored by women.
 

New_Journey

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they are leaving millionaires for other millionaires or guys that give them FUN
You think those millionares are gonna give the time of day of a girl who was with another millionarie, when those millionaires have all the options in the world of women like you stated in your first post? You are retarded.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I wish men realized how much of a difference merely acting normal with average social IQ would help with them women. I think it is because they are scared women will see them as a "nice guy" and reject or take advantage of them.



How do you not be average in today's world? If you think the red pill is still underground, then buddy I do not know what to tell you lol.
Nothing to do with that...most people are not willing to be anything but average because it requires too much work and effort to chase greatness.

Average is easy...you can relax, do whatever you want on your off days, watch TV, play video games, do things that don't amount to anything useful to kill time...you don't have to listen to people constantly trying to pull you back down to average so you can be with them...nobody wants to see someone they know get ahead because it makes them feel lesser...and people don't want to feel lesser so they will try to ensure you don't get ahead either.

Average is a mindset that comes from fear of failure and in some cases fear of success.

Average is your brain trying to desperately maintain status quo and keep you in survival mode to prevent you from truly thriving because they changes require cause uncertainty and uncertainty is the enemy of survival.

When you start to realize that your fundamental biology and your brain does everything in it's power to keep you average then you can choose to do something about it.

Most people won't. They are more than happy to live a life of unfilled potential.
 
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BadBoy89

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A man has to stop chasing attention and start building leverage. That means focusing on career growth, financial strength, personal discipline, and long-term value. The dating market rewards progress, not desperation. When you level up, your options increase.
Sure, a man can focus on long term and building success. But is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow a hot 21 year blond girl who has slept with 1 guy max, or is a 32 year old divorced women who has slept with the football team and now is sexually reserved until the man proves his love to her though his wallet?

If it’s latter, no thanks.

Let’s be honest. Most men today are failing to make a good impression. They do not have social awareness, they lack confidence, and they often present themselves in ways that instantly turn women off. Some are overly passive and afraid to lead. Others try to fake confidence by copying red pill influencers or pretending to be the nice guy, only to turn bitter when things do not go their way.
OK. Where do men learn to get confidence and social awareness and not be passive and lead? What school? What time do the classes start? When are the exams?

If you put something down, you have to offer an alternative. If you don’t, the statement doesn’t hold water and is illogical.

I have even made female profiles just to watch how men behave. Most are not even in the running.
Hard to take a man seriously when, instead of creating something that will help the world, he goes on his computer, logs into a dating app, enters a username and password, creates a female profile, finds pictures of a female, enters in all the required information, to see how men behave to his fake profile.

Bro you lost credibility here.

Do most women suck and have high standards? Yes, but I cannot just blame women without stating the elephant in the room.
Thats funny because I can. If she’s not a virgin, he leverage in any type of relationship is about 10%. If she’s is over 30, her leverage 2.5%, If she is over 35, her leverage is 0.

The problem is that too many men are either not putting in the work or trying to be someone they are not. If you want better results, you need to improve your real self, not act like a copy of someone else.
How do you know that’s the problem? A lot of men put tons of work and still can‘t find a decent girlfriend who treats them with respect.

Come on men, be strong,
 

Pandora

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Another thing is a lot of guys struggle cause they have boring personalities, or negative personalities. From reading some guys on the forum, I wouldn't want to hang out with them either so it doesn't surprise me when women don't. A lot of men underestimate that having a fun or charming personality goes a long frigging way with women.

I recommend anyone to spend a week on the Tinder/Hinge/Bumble reddits. Most men have no clue on how to speak with women, most men come of as boring or try hard. Some of the conversations are painfully cringe to read. A guy who is decent looking who knows how to flirt is going to stand out because a lot of men don't know how to talk to women in an engaging, fun way.
Big facts. Dudes are weird ( especially online). Women are lame af but men are not much better. A lot of dudes are just not cool people ( no edge).

Think about your co workers. How many of them would you want to fyck if you were a woman? Not many.

In the spirit of self awarness I probably was a weirdo at some point too ( still kinda am) but atleast I am trying.
 
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New_Journey

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Average is easy
Who gets to define this?

you can relax, do whatever you want on your off days, watch TV, play video games, do things that don't amount to anything useful to kill time
Add some puzzy on the side on the weekends, partying with your bois, enoy life's beauty. Is this suppose to be something bad? Or you think life is a constant hustling hustling until the way you die? And then you put your badge on you with the words "Not Average"?

Average is your brain trying to desperately maintain status quo and keep you in survival mode to prevent you from truly thriving because they changes require cause uncertainty and uncertainty is the enemy of survival.
Wait, according to who? A mod on sosuave? Also, what the fvck do you define by average? Like a feeling? Give tangible things.

We get it man, you are not average.
 

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In the middle stands the average man. He is decent, hardworking, and stable, but he is ignored by women chasing either fun or status. He is not reckless enough to be exciting, and not rich enough to be seen as long-term potential by women his age making more money than him. He becomes invisible.
That's sums up @Gamisch problem on his other thread.
 

SW15

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Think about your co workers. How many of them would you want to fyck if you were a woman? Not many.
Over the last 15 years, most of my male co-workers have been married men. Some woman is giving them sex, even if it is limited marital sex due to the decay of their relationship with the passage of time.

Hard to take a man seriously when, instead of creating something that will help the world, he goes on his computer, logs into a dating app, enters a username and password, creates a female profile, finds pictures of a female, enters in all the required information, to see how men behave to his fake profile.

Bro you lost credibility here.
This is a common tactic. Playing with Fire (230k subscribers) has done this on YouTube. Alex of PwF is a solid seducer too.

 

Pandora

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Over the last 15 years, most of my male co-workers have been married men. Some woman is giving them sex, even if it is limited marital sex due to the decay of their relationship with the passage of time.

But are they cool? My point is that the average dude is not some DJ on the path of self improvement.

If you followed a woman on 50 first dates you will see that the average dude is wild. Some dudes have addiction issues, anger issues, only talks about himself, out shape, is a psycho etc.

Good chill people are hard to find. Both sexes make the mistake of ovee idealizing their own.
 

SW15

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But are they cool? My point is that the average dude is not some DJ on the path of self improvement.
My male co-workers over the past 15 years have generally not been cool guys.

Most have been average tier beta males. I haven't encountered many Don Juan types as co-workers over the years.

Most have had some wife giving them sex, though likely not as much as they would like.

I haven't made any male friends at work. My friends have been people I've met outside of work.
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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