Mixed Signals But Consistent Lays. High IL or Low IL?

[jamesfromhouston]

There's a plate of mine that has been giving a lot of mixed signals as of late.

We have hooked up several times. In person, she's all kino ( touching me, intimate, etc.), very receptive.

But after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

I've been trying to determine her IL. I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

What are your thoughts?

How do you deal with a plate with mixed signals? (Or one that potentially is playing games.)

 

[Vanderdonck]

Not a mixed signal - she just wants the D. Are you wanting more than casual sex with her?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are the backup plan

 

[Clockwerk50]

You are her plate.

How to deal with that? Assume that when she reaches out she wants to see you and proceed accordingly.

 

[BPH]

I don't see a problem here.

You get consistent sex without having to spend a bunch of time or money on this woman. Now if you want something more serious, that could be a problem. It also seems like it's more of a 50/50 coordination rather than when YOU want it, but it doesn't seem like an issue - especially if you have other plates.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

There's a plate of mine that has been giving a lot of mixed signals as of late.

We have hooked up several times. In person, she's all kino ( touching me, intimate, etc.), very receptive.

But after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

I've been trying to determine her IL. I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

What are your thoughts?

How do you deal with a plate with mixed signals? (Or one that potentially is playing games.)

Mixed signals are not mixed signals. A girl who is 100% into you won't leave you room for doubt. Mixed signals = low respect/low interest.

Probably the most direct way to gauge a women's IL is her compliance. The harder it is to make plans with them, the less interested they are; conversely the easier it is, the more interested. If a women really likes you, she will make it easy as possible to see her by doing things like sending you her calender/schedule for the month. One way you can test a women's compliance early on is tell her what to wear on a date. If she pushes back with some feminist BS, it's a bad sign. Women love being told what to do and they tend to be concerned with things like dress codes to match the vibe/atmosphere, so it should be something they will appreciate and if they don't, it means they don't respect you.

More on to your point though, you have to ask yourself if this sort of behavior is tolerable to you or not. If you don't mind being treated as a backup, and still have good sex, by all means keep doing it if you don't expect to get attached or emotionally invested. I would 100% advise you to not hold out for the chance to upgrade this relationship or to expect it to grow in any way shape or form.

Personally, it doesn't matter how hot a women is or how good the sex is, if they treat me as a backup I'm out, I'd rather hold out for the high IL women who show compliance and respect even if it means taking the L.

 

[Divorced w 3]

You’re not her main priority, unfortunately it sounds like - make sure you’re wrapping it up

 

[Divorced w 3]

Hahaha nice one. YOU are the plate and you're falling hard as fvck for her. While you're here trying to figure out her interest level, wasting time on trivial things like this post, she's ignoring you, replying whenever she wants ans probably fvcking other men.

Holy fvck, she knows what buttons to push for her to live rent free in your mind.

This is simple, you're not her first priority, you're easy to get, she controls all the cards (puzzy) and you don't have other cards on your hand. There is nothing to figure out, the medium is the message.

You’re not wrong, but could have delivered this message a little nicer. Probably not an easy feeling for this guy to be in.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

There's a plate of mine that has been giving a lot of mixed signals as of late.

We have hooked up several times. In person, she's all kino ( touching me, intimate, etc.), very receptive.

But after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

I've been trying to determine her IL. I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

What are your thoughts?

How do you deal with a plate with mixed signals? (Or one that potentially is playing games.)

Do you have other options or is this your only chick?

If you had a steady rotation, you would be so focus on time management as it pertains to your flock, that it would be her worrying about what is up with you.

Plus, in my opinion, after you hit it a few times, you shouldn't want to spend more time with her, but less time.

Unless you are catching feelings...which is fine.

However..

 

[SW15]

I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

This is true.

after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

You're a lower priority for her. She is making it more difficult for you to have sex with her. If you can get her show up in person, then you can get her to have sex with you. It seems like you have to make more of an effort than you would like to get her to agree to show up in person.

That's not an ideal situation for you.

Do you have other options or is this your only chick?

If you had a steady rotation

You have a valid point in questioning the rotation.

This might be his only woman in rotation right now or she's the best looking one in rotation.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Perhaps the fact she IS just a plate on rotation (and she knows this) is precisely why she holds back!

To avoid over investing in a guy who views her as just another plate and who is a bit of a player.

She likes you perhaps even A LOT, but no high quality woman worth her salt (as @BeExcellent would say) is gonna invest and make things "easy" for a player. That's just plain dumb.

It works both ways guys.

@jamesfromhouston what do you ultimately want with this chick?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Perhaps the fact she IS just a plate on rotation (and she knows this) is precisely why she holds back!

To avoid over investing in a guy who views her as just another plate and who is a bit of a player.

She likes you perhaps even A LOT, but no high quality woman worth her salt (as @BeExcellent would say) is gonna invest and make things "easy" for a player. That's just plain dumb.

It works both ways guys.

@jamesfromhouston what do you ultimately want with this chick?

Unlikely. That's not how that works. Women and men aren't the same and you can't mirror circumstances 1:1 like that.

We would need more context from OP to know if this is true, eg how long they've been seeing each other, if she's ever indicated she wants LTR, etc.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Perhaps the fact she IS just a plate on rotation (and she knows this) is precisely why she holds back!

To avoid over investing in a guy who views her as just another plate and who is a bit of a player.

She likes you perhaps even A LOT, but no high quality woman worth her salt (as @BeExcellent would say) is gonna invest and make things "easy" for a player. That's just plain dumb.

It works both ways guys.

@jamesfromhouston what do you ultimately want with this chick?

Couple thoughts: by designating her as a plate I am on the assumption that not a lot of dating effort is being put forth. So I am inclined to a degree to accept your thinking. Plates fall off.

However, on the other hand, if he was putting forth dating effort, she should be the one asking for exclusivity.

 

[Sega Genesis]

However, on the other hand, if he was putting forth dating effort, she should be the one asking for exclusivity.

Let's ask @jamesfromhouston .

James, you putting forth dating effort? How often do you reach out either by phone or text? And ask to see her?

What do you do together, do you simply hangout and hook up? Your wording.

Or do you plan fun things outside the bedroom? And reach out in between?

This makes a difference. If it's the former then she's a plate and to her you're a plate. It's unrealistic to expect a plate to invest when you're not doing same.

If it's the latter, agree with Dw3, she should be investing more and asking for (not demanding) exclusivity.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

I think mutual high intetest always elicits tension and confusion for both people! At least during early stages before finding your groove together.

Neither knows how the other truly feels, and they both fear showing their hand first.

It can be a very emotional thing and I think trying to read behavior properly can be tricky because things are not always what they appear to be at first glance.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I think mutual high intetest always elicits tension and confusion for both people! At least during early stages before finding your groove together.

Neither knows how the other truly feels, and they both fear showing their hand first.

It can be a very emotional thing and I think trying to read behavior properly can be tricky because things are not always what they appear to be at first glance.

Ehhh...sort of, but in my experience...

Talking to high quality, high IL, high compliance women is laughably easy and low stress and you don't ever question where you stand with them and you don't need to write posts about them on Sosuave or analyze their actions. "There's no reason any man should ever have a hard time in a relationship" - Patrice O'Neal, the GOAT (RIP). These types of women will respond quickly, go out of their way to talk to you, go out of their way make themselves available, go out of their way to not try to goad you into being insecure/jealous, and they will tell you when they're upset with you and why. The only reason such a women would do the sort of things OP described is if the man doesn't communicate his intentions with her. If she really likes you and wants to be with you she won't do the sort of things OP described because she knows she might lose you for it.

I had an epiphany about this sort of thing years ago, specifically on the subject of shvt tests, but it's highly relevant to this discussion: All women will shvt test a man, yes, but the sort of manipulative, relentless, gaslighting sort of shvt testing that some women do is not something a high IL, high quality women will do to a man she likes and respects due to fear of losing him, because she knows a self-respecting man might not tolerate this behavior and will leave her. The only possible excuse a women could have for doing such things as OP described, is if the man gives off "fvckboy vibes" when she wants an LTR from him and she initially made it clear to him that she takes him seriously, and it's even worse if the man goes from LTR to fvckboy vibes back and forth.

 

[Sega Genesis]

The only reason such a women would do the sort of things OP described is if the man doesn't communicate his intentions with her.

I agree! Which is precisely why I asked the OP for more context. Awaiting his response.

It's funny. I read a post yesterday describing women who will chase a man over the rainbow to suck his d*** as being "high interest." And making things "easy" for him..

I had to chuckle because to me that's not high interest; that's a woman with low self esteem and low self worth who doesn't believe she deserves a man who cares enough to make effort and show his hand.

It's a woman seeking his attention and validation and has very little to do with high interest in HIM.

Of course I am generalizing there are always exceptions.

But in my experience it's the high quality, high interest girls who are thinking long term who require investment from the man they fancy at least on some level before they go chasing him and throwing their bodies at him at the drop of a hat.

@BeExcellent wrote a beautiful post discussing this the other day.

Anyway, no disrespect to you or anyone else but from what I've observed men are so focused on the pu**y they fail to view this accurately.

And thus misinterpret low self-esteem women seeking attention and validation as being high interest. Then wondering why a week or so later she's bored and searching for her next validation high.

Again I'm generalizing and if your experiences are different, I respect that.

Just my opinion.

 

[BeExcellent]

Let me illustrate this point (about high self esteem women). I'll talk about a well known old player here, Guru, who I have had opportunity to discuss the game with on multiple occassions. He's a cool dude, by the way.

Guru is a successful man, attractive, socially adroit, experienced at life. A risk taker. A self described playboy. He ran rotations & dated (I use the term loosely) many objectively hot women, got into LTRs here and there, and he understood women very well.

Except. He too would fall into the trap of expecting ANY woman to pursue him. Why? Because he'd had so much interest from women who at the end of the day were insecure/low self esteem (and many hot women fall into this category). So he was telling me about a beautiful girl he liked who is Ivy League educated, smart, savvy, and self-confident. He was perplexed because the conversation via text had dropped off, despite her warmth in responding.

Now. Guru knows that I ascribe to the investment viewpoint in dating. He also knows that my archetype of choice is the good looking player who has women running after him. He also knows that these players fall for me. Hmmmm. Why is that? Because I have the self confidence to KNOW what I bring to the table, I understand my own value is not based on appearance, and I know finding a beautiful woman who is also a smart, fun, solid, genuine person is RARE. So I don't need to be the hottest girl in the room if I'm the best girl across the board. And if a man doesn't see my value? Fine. Some other desirable man will.

So I told Guru, Listen. This girl you like isn't like the women you have chasing you. You are going to have to take some initiative, make an effort/extend an invitation/invest, give her something concrete to respond to. If she likes you she will say yes and be agreeable. Then you proceed from there.

He did this (reached out & invited her to do something - he hadn't heard from her for like 2 weeks at that point - and I told him, Look if you don't reach out you'll never hear from her - you've weeded yourself out in her book......)

She said yes. He called & was like, Ya know BE, it worked.

He's like, I really dig this girl. I said of course you do. We come to love what we invest in. And if she is responding by investing in you? Well this could be a great interaction that could develop legs.

Haven't talked with him in a while, but I'd bet he may be in a LTR at this point.

Men who get very skilled at the game have to learn when to drop the games for something worthwhile, because at the end of the day most men (yes even players) desire a meaningful relationship.

Playboy 101 is gaining the abundance mindset and getting past being bamboozeled by beauty. Its gaining comfort & calibration (lack of intimidation) around beauty.

Playboy 202 is learning to select women based on characteristics & behaviors rather than looks.

Playboy 303 is the ability to leave the game once you've experienced enough to apply 101 and 202 IF you find a woman worth leaving the playboy mindset for.

Caveat emptor of course.

That is the old lady's $0.02.

 

[SW15]

Men who get very skilled at the game have to learn when to drop the games for something worthwhile, because at the end of the day most men (yes even players) desire a meaningful relationship.

Most men desire to pair bond at some point in life so it's difficult to be a player forever. Pair bonding can take on different forms. I have noticed men start to struggle with a lifestyle centered around casual sex and short term relationship at ages 35+.

There are still elements of "game" needed in order to retain relationships. Elements of looks, money, status, and personality are not only important in initially attracting a woman, but are also relevant in retain relationships.

Many men lose frame as relationships go on and start to show more beta male, blue pill ideology type behaviors. There's a concept called beta-ization by 1,000 concessions. Rich Cooper has talked about it.

I have seen beta-ization in long term relationships. I have a good friend who has a triple digit notch count. He did some things right to get that triple digit notch count. Right now, he's a married man who tip toes around his wife and has no masculine frame. These things happen.

There are alpha/sigma men who struggle with monogamy as well. This comes from having a lot of sexual variety over time. Neil Strauss experienced this and other men deep in the seduction lifestyle experience it.

Beta males are better suited for longer term monogamy in the sense that they have less of a desire for sexual variety. They won't pursue sex outside the primary relationship and they also won't have women giving them strong IOIs for another sexual option. That can help them stay faithful in an LTR. In other ways, betas struggles in monogamous LTRs due to a weak frame that fails to keep women attracted for the longer term.

If she likes you she will say yes and be agreeable. Then you proceed from there.

The level of agreeableness that this woman is showing is debatable. It's a gray area.

She's being distant yet eventually she will agree to show up in person. At a minimum, she is making it more difficult for @jamesfromhouston to have sex with her.

This isn't helped by asynchronous text-based communication. In an earlier era, a woman could act the same way in avoiding phone calls in the landline era and pre-smartphone cell phone era.

And if she is responding by investing in you? Well this could be a great interaction that could develop legs.

The statement is true in general but less likely to be true given this poster's history with women.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

Hey everyone. Thank you all so much for the input. I really appreciate it.

This thread really took off and the opinions have helped me a great deal over the past few days in processing my own thoughts and my course of action.

An update to the situation:

Since she had been giving mixed signals, I decided to just turn my focus on another plate of mine.

This other plate has much higher IL than this mixed signals girl (but maybe a bit too high) she bombards me with messages (sometimes double texting) and is proactively DTF. Like many of you said, she is really easy in terms of our interaction. No mixed signals. Straight up just really into me. Asking me out all the time. We hooked up in the mean time. There is no ambiguity with this girl but it's funny because despite the transparency of it, the mixed signals plate had been on the back of my mind. Mostly just me wondering what's up with all that. (This shows that the whole mixed signals game can be quite effective on some men, more on this below).

Anyway after I dropped the mixed signals plate. 0 interaction and attention from me. She started to throw breadcrumbs my way (most of which I ignored) including commenting on my recent Facebook updates, sending me a random song on Spotify, sharing some funny memes with me, etc. Not much response from me. Because I've given up on such a confusing girl. After a long bout of withdrawal. She eventually messaged me to ask me if I was mad at her. I just said no. I then went to a new boxing class and she took that opportunity to ask me again if I was mad at her and tried to explain herself. I said I wasn't I've just been busy and truly I have been very busy with all the life activities.

Taking into account what some of you have said, compliance/agreeableness = everything I need to know (and also reminding myself this is just a plate, I had nothing to lose) and I just said "Anyway busy week but I'm planning to chill at home tonight, want to join?" She said "Yes I would love to" immediately.

Anyway she came over to my place, we had hot freaky sex. Things were great. In person as usual, I don't doubt she has high IL for me. After sex, we smoked up and chatted. And during those moments, I felt some strong LTR vibes as in maybe she wants to push for one with me. Not that the LTR conversation has come up yet but I am sure that's on her mind. I expect she will back off a bit again for awhile, do some weird confusing thing until the next time I ask her out. It's a pattern.

My own thoughts:

I don't doubt that this plate has high IL for me. In retrospect, I think perhaps she is engaging in some mind game. You see, I've met another woman like this a year ago. I even started a thread about it back then because I honestly don't meet these types often and they confuse me but I believe there are a certain type of high IL women that will use mixed signals to get you to invest more. I am talking about delayed messages, short messages, withheld communication, hot and cold behavior. They will do things to confuse you. But if they're into you then consistently over time you will come to realize that the interaction always goes your way if you step back far enough and have the resilience to weather through the games. That girl I met a year back ultimately became a stalker, her IL for me was through the roof and all the mixed signals I had experienced back in the early stages were really just part of her tactics to get me hooked. Now I am not saying that this plate is exactly the same. I could be wrong but this is just my conclusion at this point.

Given that this plate is very beautiful, it isn't inconceivable that she is branching around with other men as some of you suggested. That could also very well be it and why she did this. But the fact that she delayed her responses rather than just tell me outright she is unavailable after 24 hours, sounds gamey to me, especially how she freaked out immediately after when I withdrew. But what some of you said really hit it on the nail for me, to answer some of you, I still see her as a plate. I mean we have only just met not long ago, it's too early to think about anything else. I need to remind myself that this is still just the early stages, I've got to be more cool and level headed, treat a plate like a plate, focus on the big picture and judge her by her actions.

Simple Takeaway:

Gauging IL = Focus on their actions and consistency over time. Focus on their compliance and agreeableness.

Confusing IL = Focus on your rotation and other plates if all else fails and they just make it too confusing for you. Move on if necessary.