Empathy

[CaptFinnBad]

I don't think I have high levels of empathy in general.

Just watched this video, I found it interesting. What he is talking about , I never do.

I rewatch it as he suggested and listened in the way he advised. If felt different, he's right.

I could feel and felt connected when I listened with empathy.


I think I'm going to practice it with everyone. Not just women. I think it might be a very helpful life skill to develop.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I rewatch it as he suggested and listened in the way he advised. If felt different, he's right.

I could feel and felt connected when I listened with empathy.


I think I'm going to practice it with everyone. Not just women. I think it might be a very helpful life skill to develop.

Just thought I'd share.

As a corollary you also want to develop the skill of detaching. Listening with empathy "feels" different because you're connecting on an emotional level and also spiritual and vibrational level if it is done in-person, but the flip side is that you can get entangled if the connection goes south. Thus, the need to detach quickly and completely, especially if you're dealing with women.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

As a corollary you also want to develop the skill of detaching. Listening with empathy "feels" different because you're connecting on a spiritual and vibrational level, but the flip side is that you can get entangled if the connection goes south. Thus, the need to detach quickly and completely, especially if you're dealing with women.

Do you mind elaborating on what you said in regards of the flip side and entangled part?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Do you mind elaborating on what you said in regards of the flip side and entangled part?

Well it's just developing a certain level of callousness and also mind-control to put the emotional connection from the empathy out of your mind. I suppose it takes practice and the reason why women are so good at this is because they've been doing it for so long (in addition to their ingrained survival instincts). It's kind of a balancing act too, developing just enough of a bond so that it's genuine but not too much that you can't easily detach.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

Well it's just developing a certain level of callousness and also mind-control to put the emotional connection from the empathy out of your mind. I suppose it takes practice and the reason why women are so good at this is because they've been doing it for so long (in addition to their ingrained survival instincts). It's kind of a balancing act too, developing just enough of a bond so that it's genuine but not too much that you can't easily detach.

To me it seems like a very non reactive way to communicate.

He describes detaching from yourself (your agenda, feelings, own perspective, emotions) , and taking time to truly listen and feel what the other person is saying.

Even if it's wackadoodle bull s hit


I suppose when it's negatively being directed at you , you just see their perspective, feelings and get a much deeper understanding what's really behind it all.

Then flip out of it and back into your own state/perspective and guide the interaction from there.

I'm guessing in exactly the same way a therapist would, truly listen and see the other persons perspective (but remain objective ), flip out of it and lead.

Also I believe if you truly feel you're being listened too and the person listening isn't engaging or reacting from their perspective. I think it will defuse negativity a LOT of the time.

To me it would seem by listening this way you're not losing any frame either. You're leading the whole time and not being pulled in by anything.


That's what I'm assuming anyways.

My default is I'm a terrible listener and only see things from my own perspective. I also don't really feel much empathy.

Which is why to listen with empathy and develope a better understanding of empathy is something I'm interested in exploring.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

If I would allow myself to get emotional about all the trauma my PTSD clients tell me, I wouldn't be able to help them at all.

I assume you're an exceptional listener if you're a therapist.

Do you mind giving a little bit more insight to what I've said above?

My post is purely based on assumptions.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

Empathy is dangerous if you cannot separate feelings from critical thinking.

In what way do you feel empathy is dangerous?

 

[Solomon]

I dont have empathy for men who are healthy but can't get laid. THe world is a cruel place and not fair and as a man you better get used to it. A lot of men a soft in this era even men that are older. I have empathy for a guy who went to war like my buddy in Iraq and saw little kids get blown up. I don't have empathy for a healthy grown man crying cause he can't get laid by the hottie.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

I'm not a therapist, that's why I say 'clients' not 'patients'. I provide counsel to people with PTSD who want to get rid of the D (disorder), so they can function in society without getting triggered all the time. I can do this because I have C-PTS, but I knew how I could get over the disorder part.
However, you cannot get rid of the stress related to the sustained trauma. The stress will never truly go away, but you can control stressor and the stress reaction. And that is what I teach my clients.


Part of teaching them how to deal with the Disorder part is by separating feelings from critical thinking and not letting your emotions prioritise your bias.
In order to help them, clients need to feel safe and trust in my integrity so they can allow themselves the vulnerability to open up to me. No shame, no guilt, no coyness.
For that I use what is commonly called 'active listening', where you encourage the other person to open up by being visibly empathetic to their plight without judgment or bias. However, I keep detached from the empathy so my mind does not get clouded by an emotional reaction to other people's trauma. If you can't do that, you run a risk of drowning in other people's sorrows.

I'm sorry to hear about your C-PTSD, I've dated women with the disorder and know how difficult it can be to live with.

You mentioned you teach clients with the disorder to separate feelings from critical thinking , which I assume that's what you practiced to overcome it yourself.

Do you think you are able to detach from empathy whilst actively listening and being visibility empathetic because you have learned to separate feelings from critical thinking.


Or the ability to detach from empathy comes naturally to you.

Or something entirely different?



I ask as I personally don't feel empathy in the sense of taking on/feeling others emotions, even if it's somone close to me describing something they have experienced and find highly distressing.

I care, I genuinely do, but I don't find I feel what they are going through.

It's why I'm so interested in the subject. Also wondering if empathy is something I can nurture in myself.

 

[Pandora]

I don't think I have high levels of empathy in general.

Just watched this video, I found it interesting. What he is talking about , I never do.

I rewatch it as he suggested and listened in the way he advised. If felt different, he's right.

I could feel and felt connected when I listened with empathy.


I think I'm going to practice it with everyone. Not just women. I think it might be a very helpful life skill to develop.

Just thought I'd share.

So mushrooms ( psilocybin) really helped me become more empathetic. I had a life changing dose and it opened my eyes to the power of love ( empathy). I still have a long way to go but I am on my journey.

In the manosphere we dont talk about the healing power of love enough. Most of these women are just doing things that we would do if we had a body full of estrogen. They are just lost children. All human disputes can be solved with empathy. Once you realize how the other person views an issue you lose any aggression you have towards that person. You see that they are doing the best they can do with the mental tools that they have.

This empathy rabbit hole is deep and leads to a lot of life changing perspectives. Great video and post.

 

[Pandora]

I don't think I have high levels of empathy in general.

Just watched this video, I found it interesting. What he is talking about , I never do.

I rewatch it as he suggested and listened in the way he advised. If felt different, he's right.

I could feel and felt connected when I listened with empathy.


I think I'm going to practice it with everyone. Not just women. I think it might be a very helpful life skill to develop.

Just thought I'd share.

MDMA really helps with empathy. Pure stuff. The stuff they used to prescribe not the dirty laced street stuff. MDMA is literally classified as an empathogen. I dont recommend getting the street stuff. Maybe wait until its legal again and try it. It really opens your heart to feel for the other person.

 

[The Duke]

I score high in empathy and it is probably the #1 reason I can connect so well with women in 1 on 1 conversations.

It starts with listening, seeking to understand where a person is coming from and why they feel like they do, and then relating what they said back to them. It lets them know that you understand them. That's how you connect with people. When a person feels connected, they become more willing to share because they are now comfortable. You made them feel understood and valued.

High Empathy will allow you the ability to understand a situation and how that person is effected emotionally and cognitively. It provides you with a view of the big picture and better understanding of the entire situation.

When you connect thru empathy you learn how a person thinks, how they will react. You have an inside track into their brain. You will be able to complete their thoughts and predict their words before they even tell you all of them. I have a best friend that is high in empathy. Him and I can read each other like a book. It's the weirdest thing. But it allows us to have deep understandings and appreciate our differences.

Every now and then you see guys spill their guts on here about a relationship gone bad. It's usually a guy that has super high empathy and no boundaries/self respect. His ability to relate/understand his lover sets himself up for abuse. He tells his story and here come a bunch of posters with low empathy that can't understand why a guy would do such a thing and shame him for it.

Many times a high empathy person will walk away from a debate feeling like they could relate to where the other person was coming from. They can see things from many perspectives.

In todays world we have a decline in empathy. Everything is about the individual. We don't value relationships with people. Life is controlled by a computer. It's why no one can understand the other side. It's why people feel so alone and have anxiety. They are all in their head and can't escape.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

We’ve had management classes on Empathetic Listening.

 

[The Duke]

Do you mind elaborating on what you said in regards of the flip side and entangled part?

When you have high empathy, you understand that person and can relate to their situation. The more you understand the harder it is to let them struggle or experience pain. The more you want to help. A lot of times they will take you down with them. A few crazy girls I dated did this to me. They took advantage of my good will and understanding. I had to learn to just say no before it got too far.

It's like rescuing an animal that fell thru the ice. You can try and help but don't drown yourself doing so.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

When you have high empathy, you understand that person and can relate to their situation. The more you understand the harder it is to let them struggle or experience pain. The more you want to help. A lot of times they will take you down with them. A few crazy girls I dated did this to me. They took advantage of my good will and understanding. I had to learn to just say no before it got too far.

It's like rescuing an animal that fell thru the ice. You can try and help but don't drown yourself doing so.

Gotta be willing to shoot the fallen horse, c'mon now Duke.

 

[The Duke]

Gotta be willing to shoot the fallen horse, c'mon now Duke.

Exactly. I'm just explaining how it works. It's something that I had to learn the hard way and did.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

Well that's interesting!!!

Been practicing this all day with everyone I've interacted with. Early days, I'm probably only just listening at this point, But it's been nice.

I've had genuine, warm, connected and energised conversations all day with all different types of people.

Also found once I disengaged from listening, people tended to follow.

I visited my parents today too, tried it on them. They were fighting for me attention , each completing with one another to be listened too.


Also the conversation... Every conversation I had was not boring as I imagined they would be!

 

[CaptFinnBad]

Also switching it off was very natural. Didn't even notice, it it just flowed.

Conversations felt very different, like the other person was so excited to be engaging with me.

As for listening with empathy in regards of negativity directed at me whilst doing so. I'll see what that's like when I encounter it.

It's it's not productive/destructive i'll just actively disengage listening with empathy, and withdraw my engagement.

Which I suppose could as an unintentional side effect act as a negative punishment to that person.

(The dog trainer in me speaking here lol)

 

[CaptFinnBad]

No crime, no punishment.
Don't judge, no bias. Whatever emotion comes out of the person you're listening to, it's not directed at you personally.
You have to disable your own triggers. You know what they are and you should be in control if someone tries to flip them.
As long as your ego is still engaged, you cannot truly listen and hear the essence behind the spoken words. Never ever take spoken words at face value. People rarely say what they mean, you have to read the subtext without adding your own subtext.

That makes a lot of sense!!!! I suppose that's when you truly know you have developed the skill when you can do as you described above!

Thank you so much for your insight!


I don't know why but I'm so excited by all of this.

 

[CaptFinnBad]

I teach Pre-Conflict Control, my method of using ancient martial arts principles to control conflicts before they arise. One of the most important principles is harnessing the state of imperturbability (Fudōshin), which is basically the self control to disallow others from feeding into your mental state and unbalancing your emotional equilibrium.

Pre Conflict control definitely sounds like something I could personally benefit from. Willingness to engage in conflict has always been a weakness of mine and an area I could improve in.


Would you care to elaborate or point me towards to sources where I could learn more about this ?

If you have time to do so of course.