the system doc love vs the rational male opininion?

[jiggolo71]

hey guys even though the two books have some things in common they are some topics where there are some differences.
For example:

• In the system doc says on the first date you should make the girl feel comfort it will rise her interest lvl.
• In the rational male rollo says comfort in the beginning is similar with familiarity so she will see you like a brother and sleeping with you would feel like incest. the discomfort is needed to sleep together

Two different opininions who to listen to?

 

[pipeman84]

Listen to your own mind, don't blindly follow anyone, even if they call themselves or are regarded by others as 'experts'.
Now, regarding those 2, keep in mind that Doc Love's system was all about finding a good woman for long term relationship whereas Rollo is about banging hoes (3date rule or next her). Furthermore, if the attraction is there (at least 51% interest level as Doc would put it) and you act like a man, as opposed to a simp trying to impress her, there's no way in hell she'll see you as a brother.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Listen to your own mind, don't blindly follow anyone, even if they call themselves or are regarded by others as 'experts'.
Now, regarding those 2, keep in mind that Doc Love's system was all about finding a good woman for long term relationship whereas Rollo is about banging hoes (3date rule or next her). Furthermore, if the attraction is there (at least 51% interest level as Doc would put it) and you act like a man, as opposed to a simp trying to impress her, there's no way in hell she'll see you as a brother.

I think Rollo’s mindset is optimal , personally. Head game is paramount- break out of the matrix and believe in yourself- he choosey and put the power back in your life as to when someone deserves your extended affection (like you would any other person or thing)

 

[pipeman84]

@Divorced w 3 yeah, you get your power back, but isn't it a pity to waste it on hoes? It's like winning £1M and instead of getting yourself a brand new Porsche or Mercedes you waste it on some junk from the pre-owned by 5+ guys car dealership.

 

[Divorced w 3]

@Divorced w 3 yeah, you get your power back, but isn't it a pity to waste it on hoes? It's like winning £1M and instead of getting yourself a brand new Porsche or Mercedes you waste it on some junk from the pre-owned by 5+ guys car dealership.

Hahah
Who said you’re wasting it on hoes? What if I have looks, money and status and I just don’t want to settle?

 

[pipeman84]

Hahah
Who said you’re wasting it on hoes? What if I have looks, money and status and I just don’t want to settle?

That's pretty much what's left if you go by Rollo's book...because it leaves one with a bitter taste and a toxic outlook that there are no good women out there.

 

[bat soup]

hey guys even though the two books have some things in common they are some topics where there are some differences.
For example:

• In the system doc says on the first date you should make the girl feel comfort it will rise her interest lvl.
• In the rational male rollo says comfort in the beginning is similar with familiarity so she will see you like a brother and sleeping with you would feel like incest. the discomfort is needed to sleep together

Two different opininions who to listen to?

I once started with comfort and it did feel like incest. But then again, the girl was actually my sister.

 

[Divorced w 3]

That's pretty much what's left if you go by Rollo's book...because it leaves one with a bitter taste and a toxic outlook that there are no good women out there.

No I don’t believe that. I just think they’re wired a certain way and my experience backs up his theories for now anyway.

 

[bat soup]

For fak's sake. If you're going to blindly follow anyone and adopt all of their bizarre opinions and prejudices, at least follow Tom Torero. He had a great life until he offed himself.

 

[RangerMIke]

"The Rational Male" is philosophical.
"The System" is a process for men the screen out women.

The former explains why things are the way they are with recommendations of how to proceed depending on what you want, the later is a step by step process a man can use to find a LTR.

FYI OP, "The System" does not suggest a man make the woman feel comfortable. Only that a man should not behave like a sex starved idiot, if she likes you she will make an effort... if she doesn't then she won't. It's all designed to figure out what the woman wants. Doc Love guarantees NOTHING. "The System" is just a process where you find out if a chick really wants you, or she is damaged. If she doesn't want you, or she is damaged, "The System" lets you screen out the "users and losers" so you can focus on other women you have a better chance with.

 

[Divorced w 3]

For fak's sake. If you're going to blindly follow anyone and adopt all of their bizarre opinions and prejudices, at least follow Tom Torero. He had a great life until he offed himself.

Nobody’s fault but your own that your can’t read

 

[EyeBRollin]

Listen to Doc Love > Rollo

 

[Pedrito0906]

whereas Rollo is about banging hoes (3date rule or next her).

That's not what he means by that, did you actually take the time to read it and understand it? So a girl is not a hoe if she fvcks you on the 5th or 6th date? That's the classic Madonna/Hoe complex.

That same girl who made you wait 5 or 6 dates to fvck you, its the same who fvcked a hot guy on the 1st date. Rollo just says that she didn't fvck you by the 3rd date, she doesn't have that burning desire for you and by that point its just negotiation.

Maybe she's not a hoe, maybe you're fvcking hot to her eyes and she desires you too much and couldn't wait to fvck you. Have you thought about that?

 

[pipeman84]

That's not what he means by that, did you actually take the time to read it and understand it? So a girl is not a hoe if she fvcks you on the 5th or 6th date? That's the classic Madonna/Hoe complex.

That same girl who made you wait 5 or 6 dates to fvck you, its the same who fvcked a hot guy on the 1st date. Rollo just says that she didn't fvck you by the 3rd date, she doesn't have that burning desire for you and by that point its just negotiation.

This illustrates why Rollo's book is toxic and leads one to virtually exclude quality girls: he portrays a world where ALL girls fvck the ALPHA guys (him and his followers) within 1-3 dates. If she doesn't fvck within 1-3 dates then it means she has no genuine attraction and/or the guy is a beta. Say what??!! And all this 'wisdom' (actually pure, unadulterated BS arising from generalizing from a tiny subset of population) is coming from a guy who went from a 4yrs relationship with a nutcase to marrying a woman 4 yrs his senior who's biological clock was ticking loudly, proof being she did have a baby within a year or so of marriage.

Maybe she's not a hoe, maybe you're fvcking hot to her eyes and she desires you too much and couldn't wait to fvck you. Have you thought about that?

Man, you have contradiction in terms there...that's exactly what makes her a hoe, because she has low impulse control + masculine tendencies and wants to fvck before any emotional connection has been built.

 

[Divorced w 3]

This illustrates why Rollo's book is toxic and leads one to virtually exclude quality girls: he portrays a world where ALL girls fvck the ALPHA guys (him and his followers) within 1-3 dates. If she doesn't fvck within 1-3 dates then it means she has no genuine attraction and/or the guy is a beta. Say what??!! And all this 'wisdom' (actually pure, unadulterated BS arising from generalizing from a tiny subset of population) is coming from a guy who went from a 4yrs relationship with a nutcase to marrying a woman 4 yrs his senior who's biological clock was ticking loudly, proof being she did have a baby within a year or so of marriage.


Man, you have contradiction in terms there...that's exactly what makes her a hoe, because she has low impulse control + masculine tendencies and wants to fvck before any emotional connection has been built.

Rollo’s book is toxic … that’s funny
Living someone else’s view of how your life should be, without boundaries and constantly confirming their needs and belief system in spite of your personal needs is mentally and emotionally toxic. Try that out. I swear to God if this thought process prevailed in the 40’s we would be speaking German. Do you rock out to Lizzo? Do you need testosterone replacement therapy?

 

[SW15]

"The Rational Male" is philosophical.
"The System" is a process for men the screen out women.

The former explains why things are the way they are with recommendations of how to proceed depending on what you want, the later is a step by step process a man can use to find a LTR.

FYI OP, "The System" does not suggest a man make the woman feel comfortable. Only that a man should not behave like a sex starved idiot, if she likes you she will make an effort... if she doesn't then she won't. It's all designed to figure out what the woman wants. Doc Love guarantees NOTHING. "The System" is just a process where you find out if a chick really wants you, or she is damaged. If she doesn't want you, or she is damaged, "The System" lets you screen out the "users and losers" so you can focus on other women you have a better chance with.

This is the best explanation on the differences between the books. The books have some overlap.

Many years ago, while in college, I read articles by Doc Love, but never fully read "The System". I am familiar with the basic tenets of "The System". I have read "The Rational Male" and am currently reading one of the follow up books, "The Rational Male: The Players Handbook".

The best things from "The System" are the inner game principles of confidence and being a challenge. Most red and black pill guys would agree with the principle of being a challenge. The more modern simping behavior is not being a challenge. Women are sexually repulsed by simps but like simps for getting money on OnlyFans or Instagram. Old school simping, which isn't as bad as new school tech simping, is going to the strip club and not getting laid with a stripper at the strip club.

One of the biggest issues now with "The System" is the changes in technology since it was written in the 1990s. He was writing when home phones were most dominant. Most people didn't even have basic cell phones then, let alone smartphones were text messaging was the primary communication medium. @EyeBRollin has written about how someone can adapt the Doc Love principles with newer tech forms.

I remember reading Doc Love articles during my college days (2001-2005) and learning from it, but Doc Love work alone doesn't make you red pill. In college, even after reading Doc Love and other PUAs of that era like David DeAngelo, I would say that I became more game aware and might have been a 'Greater Beta'. It wasn't until circa 2010 when I discovered Roosh and other Manosphere writers that I fully took the red pill.

I didn't read "The Game" (2005) and "Mystery Method" (2007) until after I discovered Roosh and others. "Day Bang" (2011) was probably the best pickup manual I read, and "Bang" (2007) was the most useful night game manual I ever read. I did later read "Mystery Method".

"The Rational Male" is one of the best books for developing an overall red pill mindset. Most pickup manuals will help you overall with outer game and probably push you from Average Frustrated Chump/beta male to Greater Beta, but they won't do a lot in terms of inner game, which means that eventually you'll run into relationship problems from a lack of frame (see Iron Rule of Tomassi #1).

One of my friends read both "Mystery Method" and "Bang". He ended up in an LTR from a social circle introduction. The woman is fairly mediocre looking with one very good attribute and the relationship itself has gotten more and more stale over time. Even though the relationship was in a decline phase, the guy did propose marriage by that time. The relationship still exists today.

Another friend is a 6'4", White, former NCAA athlete who put up a triple digit notch count. Today, he's a typical married beta male in a suburban single family house. He had great bar game in order to get the triple digit notch count but his relationship game is weak as he showed his true beta self in a relationship with a woman with many red flags for an LTR.

Frame is everything.

 

[Divorced w 3]

This is the best explanation on the differences between the books. The books have some overlap.

Many years ago, while in college, I read articles by Doc Love, but never fully read "The System". I am familiar with the basic tenets of "The System". I have read "The Rational Male" and am currently reading one of the follow up books, "The Rational Male: The Players Handbook".

The best things from "The System" are the inner game principles of confidence and being a challenge. Most red and black pill guys would agree with the principle of being a challenge. The more modern simping behavior is not being a challenge. Women are sexually repulsed by simps but like simps for getting money on OnlyFans or Instagram. Old school simping, which isn't as bad as new school tech simping, is going to the strip club and not getting laid with a stripper at the strip club.

One of the biggest issues now with "The System" is the changes in technology since it was written in the 1990s. He was writing when home phones were most dominant. Most people didn't even have basic cell phones then, let alone smartphones were text messaging was the primary communication medium. @EyeBRollin has written about how someone can adapt the Doc Love principles with newer tech forms.

I remember reading Doc Love articles during my college days (2001-2005) and learning from it, but Doc Love work alone doesn't make you red pill. In college, even after reading Doc Love and other PUAs of that era like David DeAngelo, I would say that I became more game aware and might have been a 'Greater Beta'. It wasn't until circa 2010 when I discovered Roosh and other Manosphere writers that I fully took the red pill.

I didn't read "The Game" (2005) and "Mystery Method" (2007) until after I discovered Roosh and others. "Day Bang" (2011) was probably the best pickup manual I read, and "Bang" (2007) was the most useful night game manual I ever read. I did later read "Mystery Method".

"The Rational Male" is one of the best books for developing an overall red pill mindset. Most pickup manuals will help you overall with outer game and probably push you from Average Frustrated Chump/beta male to Greater Beta, but they won't do a lot in terms of inner game, which means that eventually you'll run into relationship problems from a lack of frame (see Iron Rule of Tomassi #1).

Well put. Bottom line. If these guys were wrong. Ashley Madison would not have had the financial resources to try and name Giants Stadium

 

[pipeman84]

Rollo’s book is toxic … that’s funny
Living someone else’s view of how your life should be, without boundaries and constantly confirming their needs and belief system in spite of your personal needs is mentally and emotionally toxic. Try that out. I swear to God if this thought process prevailed in the 40’s we would be speaking German. Do you rock out to Lizzo? Do you need testosterone replacement therapy?

??!! I have no idea what you're saying beyond the first line
Yeah man, I find it toxic overall...suggesting that a 'rational male' should be like a dog in heat pushing for sex within the first 3 dates (stark contrast to Doc Love who suggests kissing by the end of the second date) is repulsive to any actual rational man looking for a meaningful relationship with a woman.

 

[Divorced w 3]

??!! I have no idea what you're saying beyond the first line
Yeah man, I find it toxic overall...suggesting that a 'rational male' should be like a dog in heat pushing for sex within the first 3 dates (stark contrast to Doc Love who suggests kissing by the end of the second date) is repulsive to any actual rational man looking for a meaningful relationship with a woman.

Yes you do. You know exactly what I’m saying.

 

[SW15]

Well put. Bottom line. If these guys were wrong. Ashley Madison would not have had the financial resources to try and name Giants Stadium

Ashley Madison made a lousy offer for the naming right for that stadium when it was a new stadium back in 2010.

Adultery website offers to buy Meadowlands naming rights

The Jets have recently taken to calling the New Meadowlands Stadium "Jets Stadium" which is sorta hilarious, petty, and very Jets-like.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Ashley Madison offered $5 million per year, which is 2010 was on the lower side of what naming rights were typically worth. The offer was only for 5 years, and most stadium naming rights deals are 15-30 year long deals.

The offer was a PR stunt more than anything.