Electric Cars

[lost_blackbird]

I've spent £30,000GBP on ICE vehicles in the last year. For that I got a used high spec 2018 Mazda 3 with just
17,000 miles on the clock, it's as good as new really. And a brand new, range topping Yamaha motorcycle. That
same sum would have nearly bought me 1/2 a new Tesla or a shagged out used one. The US market may be different
but here, I can't justify that kind of expense. I could have bought a brand new Tesla, still can, have sufficient savings to do
so but no, not here. I'd rather buy a house with it and stick a paying tenant in it.

 

[corsica]

Individual ownership of vehicles will come to an end fairly soon. The future is self driving taxis, driverless Uber. These resource arguments are based upon individual ownership, which we don't need. Most cars spend most of their time sitting. We could get by with a lot fewer vehicles if we shared them.

It might take decades until they come up with a level 5 autonomous vehicle. People think Tesla is in level 5 but it's actually 2.

Many other players are trying but realizing it's not possible. Be it Waymo (Google), Uber...

Here's an explanation:

Self-driving Vehicles | US EPA

This page is general overview of self-driving (automated) vehicles, with definitions for the different levels of automation, from Level 0 (no automation) to Level 5 (full automation). Includes easy-to-read snapshot of automation levels.

www.epa.gov

here George Hotz goes more in depth since he was developing an autopilot himself:

Artificial Intelligence is a scam. Quantum computing is another scam. If you hear that, watch out. Those are keywords used by conman to take money from investors.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

What would happen to EV interest and sales volumes if the government wasn't creating a degree of artificial demand via its subsidies and related 'green agenda' promulgations (especially California's restrictive regulations)?

It would highly likely tank like a stone dropped into the sea. Most people are smart enough to recognize its isn't economically feasible for them. The purchase price is very high of a EV and many people aka average Joe can not afford it them. Now with the rampant inflation in the western world gas and diesel is ironically and potentially much "cheaper" too than electricity.

Not to mention that electric cars doesn't have the same "soul" as combustion engines which have a very distinct sound and you can hear how they perform while electric cars are dead silent. Many car guys talk about this. I know this last part is a side track, but non the less it is a factor for average joe when he purchase some wheels..

 

[lost_blackbird]

Sure is with me, performance air filters/ induction kits and sports exhaust systems are among my
first purchases with a new vehicle. I like things that burble and make pops and bangs. It's rare (relatively)
for European vehicles to have engines bigger than 2.0 because we do and always have paid through the
nose for fuel compared to countries like the US. V6's and V8's etc do exist here but they are pretty rare.
Because of this we have learned how to get a lot of power from a small engine, particularly with the addition
of turbochargers. It's quite feasible with fairly low outlay to get 400bhp from a 1.8 inline 4. We have large family
saloons with 1.5 turbo engines that can comfortably whack out 200bhp stock. My current car is a 2.0 N/A petrol
with a factory tuned down engine putting out about 120bhp (45bhp less than my bike) but it sips fuel and gives
me 50mpg+ easily on a run which is why I bought it. A turbo kit, sports exhaust and a remap would double that.
At the moment my Mazda is completely stock but even a basic remapping and nothing else would yield an extra
50 ponies. I have done the modded car thing to death over the years in my younger days and am trying to leave
this one alone. When I want speed, noise and flames I'll jump on my bike which when pushed on a bit will do 80mph
in first gear alone.

 

[zekko]

How is it relevant if the demand for a new technology is “artificial” or not?

It's relevant to me because it's my tax dollars that are being spent to subsidize people buying them.

 

[EyeBRollin]

It's relevant to me because it's my tax dollars that are being spent to subsidize people buying them.

Our tax dollars have been subsidizing oil companies for decades.

 

[BriBri]

Our tax dollars have been subsidizing oil companies for decades.

Everyone benefits to some degree from oil company products/services. Relatively few people own or have any interest in EVs.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Everyone benefits to some degree from oil company products/services.

No, actually we don’t.

 

[lost_blackbird]

I was at my local motorcycle dealer today which happens to be the largest one in the UK.
Had a spot of business to attend to with the sales department, while I was in there I saw the
electric Zero softroader/tourer thing on sale. It was £25,000,( £10,000 more than the
brand new 2022 Yamaha 1000 I recently purchased including a bunch of extras which totalled
a further £2000 over and above the bikes ticket price.) I thought it was pig ugly but had a seat
on it just to see how it felt when you were sat at the lights. It was as heavy as a Harley. With an
approximate range of 100 miles per charge. There was a guy on You Tube who did a long road
test on one in the UK hitting the 4 furthest points of the compass available within the UK, essentially
an 800 mile trip. It took him four days riding almost non stop with him catching a nap while his
bike was charging every 50-70 miles or so. Admittedly with my Yamahas relatively small tank
and it's ability to drink petrol at an alarming rate on account of being fast as F and with an engine
derived from the blisteringly fast R1 I'd only expect 130 odd miles per tank but the main difference
being a. it's most definitely faster than a Zero and b. my bike takes 90 seconds to fill the tank so my
journey can resume with almost no delay.

 

[EyeBRollin]

There was a guy on You Tube who did a long road
test on one in the UK hitting the 4 furthest points of the compass available within the UK, essentially
an 800 mile trip.

Motorcycles don’t fill the same niche as cars. Most car owners take leisure road trips sparingly. The majority of driving is daily commuting and errands. It’s interesting that people’s first reaction is to the 1-2 weeks worth of road trips per year instead of the other 300+ days of daily driving.

 

[lost_blackbird]

Arguably, bikes are more efficient as personal transport since most cars have one occupant
most of the time. Lugging all that extra weight and mass around to move one person from a-b
seems at odds with the whole eco movement from where I'm sitting. Not to mention bikes create
no extra traffic, nor are they held up by it much as filtering (lane splitting in the US) is entirely legal
here as I'm led to believe it is in some US States. Shame most people are too scared of them to make
the switch. Bikes in the 400-650cc bracket are very fuel efficient too. Small commuter bikes 125-250cc
even more so giving as much as 110 mpg. Probably explains their immense popularity in places such as
Thailand and India.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Arguably, bikes are more efficient as personal transport since most cars have one occupant
most of the time. Lugging all that extra weight and mass around to move one person from a-b
seems at odds with the whole eco movement from where I'm sitting.

Oh for sure. Americans have a clownish car culture. Especially women. Most vehicles on the road are oversized SUVs driven by a lone female driver.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Arguably, bikes are more efficient as personal transport since most cars have one occupant
most of the time. Lugging all that extra weight and mass around to move one person from a-b
seems at odds with the whole eco movement from where I'm sitting. Not to mention bikes create
no extra traffic, nor are they held up by it much as filtering (lane splitting in the US) is entirely legal
here as I'm led to believe it is in some US States. Shame most people are too scared of them to make
the switch. Bikes in the 400-650cc bracket are very fuel efficient too. Small commuter bikes 125-250cc
even more so giving as much as 110 mpg. Probably explains their immense popularity in places such as
Thailand and India.

I had an r1 for years, but also have had two Suzuki gs500e bikes, which are fast enough to be fun, but would average about 57 mpg.

I think bikes should be exempt from drunk driving laws, because realistically it is only yourself you're going to kill. Similarly, I wonder what will happen to dui laws when cars drive themselves. I bet it is still a crime to be drunk when driven. The state needs the revenue.

 

[zekko]

This video is interesting:

 

[wifehunter]

Only when we finally tap into the universe's unlimited supply of electricity, will we have true green electricity. Greedy people like to keep this from happening, because they can't charge money for it.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Only when we finally tap into the universe's unlimited supply of electricity, will we have true green electricity. Greedy people like to keep this from happening, because they can't charge money for it.

Well there is a giant nuclear reactor in the sky that has about 5 billion more years of energy left…

 

[zekko]

Well there is a giant nuclear reactor in the sky that has about 5 billion more years of energy left…

That's a long extension cord

 

[EyeBRollin]

That's a long extension cord

Solar panels

 

[Desdinova]

Pros: It doesn't use gas
Cons: It's not a truck

I'm always hauling 5hit long distances, so an electric vehicle makes no sense for me. People forget that work is done with gas and diesel powered vehicles. There are currently no electric trucks being mass produced.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'm always hauling 5hit long distances, so an electric vehicle makes no sense for me. People forget that work is done with gas and diesel powered vehicles. There are currently no electric trucks being mass produced.

I don’t think people forgot… Tesla is reportedly delivering its first semis by the end of the year. I do wonder though why diesel-electric hybrids aren’t a thing like they are in trains. Any mechanical engineers out there able to chime in?