Am I being too 'frame-oriented'?

[TheNewStyle123]

What's up guys.

Most of the time when I set up a first date with a women I pick a local spot close to me. There are a few restaurants/bars that are close to my apartment that make for ideal first date spots. Most women have no problem agreeing to this when I give the time, date, and location.

I have ran into this situation twice now: I will suggest a time/date that works for her, but rather than agree to my location she will suggest to meet in her town or somewhere else. Do you think I am being too selfish by expecting every women to come to my town (especially if they live far away)?

I have had some girls travel 30-45 min just to come meet me at this location with success in the past. To me, I feel like it is a way to gauge IL (but I also realize that if a girl has never met me, it is difficult to expect high IL without ever meeting).


Here is how the conversation went with this recent woman:

ME: "Let's get brunch this Sunday at ____. It has an interesting menu that revolves every Sunday, plus the drinks are great too! It opens at 11:30."

HER: Let's meet somewhere in ____. I know they definitely have some nice brunch places."

To me, I don't mind meeting a woman near where she lives, but since I already suggested the location to a place that I KNOW is good (and made that point) and she countered with a location change to a city where she hasn't even selected a location ('some nice brunch places') I don't want to come off as too submissive or willing to cater to her. Could I just be really reading into this with the intention of trying not to seem too beta?

Thanks guys.

 

[bat soup]

What's up guys.

Most of the time when I set up a first date with a women I pick a local spot close to me. There are a few restaurants/bars that are close to my apartment that make for ideal first date spots. Most women have no problem agreeing to this when I give the time, date, and location.

I have ran into this situation twice now: I will suggest a time/date that works for her, but rather than agree to my location she will suggest to meet in her town or somewhere else. Do you think I am being too selfish by expecting every women to come to my town (especially if they live far away)?

I have had some girls travel 30-45 min just to come meet me at this location with success in the past. To me, I feel like it is a way to gauge IL (but I also realize that if a girl has never met me, it is difficult to expect high IL without ever meeting).


Here is how the conversation went with this recent woman:

ME: "Let's get brunch this Sunday at ____. It has an interesting menu that revolves every Sunday, plus the drinks are great too! It opens at 11:30."

HER: Let's meet somewhere in ____. I know they definitely have some nice brunch places."

To me, I don't mind meeting a woman near where she lives, but since I already suggested the location to a place that I KNOW is good (and made that point) and she countered with a location change to a city where she hasn't even selected a location ('some nice brunch places') I don't want to come off as too submissive or willing to cater to her. Could I just be really reading into this with the intention of trying not to seem too beta?

Thanks guys.

To me it sounds like she's not cooperating and therefore likely a bad lead. Plus, logistically going to some far away place is going to make things more difficult. It's up to you whether you think it's still worthwhile.

Personally, I wouldn't be taking random strangers out for free food that they don't deserve anyway.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

To me it sounds like she's not cooperating and therefore likely a bad lead. Plus, logistically going to some far away place is going to make things more difficult. It's up to you whether you think it's still worthwhile.

Personally, I wouldn't be taking random strangers out for free food that they don't deserve anyway.

Cooperating is a good way of putting it! That's what I was trying to get at. It rubs me the wrong way since I picked the place and she wants to change it to better serve her, when I will likely be the one paying for things (wasn't planning on buying her a meal, just a drink and an app to split, but I get your point about investing in a stranger).

I already have another girl that is willing to come to the same location on Sunday and seems to have higher IL about it. I think you may be right and this girl making more difficult should be nexted.

 

[Alvafe]

date people from your town? more then likely woman are lazy so they will not move much to find a date, even more when she should have a line of guys waiting to jump.

just take this as she just wanted a free meal, and move on to the next girl

 

[Lookatu]

Laziness, compliance issues, low IL, spoiled with options, or any combo of those.

However to play devil's advocate, if she does live far from you, you are merely a stranger at this point so just like you don't wanna invest a lot in someone you don't know, she is also choosing not to over-invest in someone she doesn't know or like yet.

I wouldn't leave things on the table by NOT meeting someone somewhere that both of you agree to. I generally will meet a gal half-way on a first date which is reasonable IMO. I have also been known to meet closer to her if I think my chances of smashing are high.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

What's up guys.

Most of the time when I set up a first date with a women I pick a local spot close to me. There are a few restaurants/bars that are close to my apartment that make for ideal first date spots. Most women have no problem agreeing to this when I give the time, date, and location.

I have ran into this situation twice now: I will suggest a time/date that works for her, but rather than agree to my location she will suggest to meet in her town or somewhere else. Do you think I am being too selfish by expecting every women to come to my town (especially if they live far away)?

I have had some girls travel 30-45 min just to come meet me at this location with success in the past. To me, I feel like it is a way to gauge IL (but I also realize that if a girl has never met me, it is difficult to expect high IL without ever meeting).


Here is how the conversation went with this recent woman:

ME: "Let's get brunch this Sunday at ____. It has an interesting menu that revolves every Sunday, plus the drinks are great too! It opens at 11:30."

HER: Let's meet somewhere in ____. I know they definitely have some nice brunch places."

To me, I don't mind meeting a woman near where she lives, but since I already suggested the location to a place that I KNOW is good (and made that point) and she countered with a location change to a city where she hasn't even selected a location ('some nice brunch places') I don't want to come off as too submissive or willing to cater to her. Could I just be really reading into this with the intention of trying not to seem too beta?

Thanks guys.

Women that do this are usually testing you, either consciously or subconsciously. The answer is NO. You say NO to them. You lead, they cooperate. This is something you planned, therefore she must respect that.

The idea of when women do this is to see how you lead and how you stand your ground. Therefore, the moment you say "okay, whatever you prefer" is the moment she loses respect for you as a man.

PLUS, if you want a woman to chase you and think about you, you better make sure she invests in you. This includes, her going out of her way to follow your lead and do whatever she needs to do to make it happen.

Hope this helps,
Modern Man Advice

 

[Lookatu]

This is not good, in my opinion, because you offered her a meal, on the first meetup, and then she responded in kind, suggesting a "nice" (i.e. EXPENSIVE) place for HER to meet you. She has NOTHING to lose here. You're expected to spend your time and money driving to the date and feeding her, while all she's expected to do is show up.

If it were me, I would text her right now:

"Hi there instead of ___________ will you meet me at (DRINKS ONLY PLACE) on (SPECIFIC LOCATION)?"

If she refuses, then cancel: "I understand. I'm gonna pass on brunch. I'll let you know when/if we can reschedule. Have a nice day "

Don't explain. Just cancel.

Exactly. ^^^

Just say no to Foodie Calls.

Say yes only to Booty Calls.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Do you think I am being too selfish by expecting every women to come to my town (especially if they live far away)?

Yes.

A lot of guys on this forum misapply the principles and fail to see the long game. The first date is your super bowl. It is your first and only chance to show value. The first date is critical when correspondence has only happened via OLD (day game approaches can treat “first dates” as second dates). You are leaving a lot ass on the table for no good reason.

The first date is not the time to flex and be abrasive to “hold frame.” Just get the date. Frame is for when you have actually met her.

 

[bat soup]

Cooperating is a good way of putting it! That's what I was trying to get at. It rubs me the wrong way since I picked the place and she wants to change it to better serve her, when I will likely be the one paying for things (wasn't planning on buying her a meal, just a drink and an app to split, but I get your point about investing in a stranger).

I already have another girl that is willing to come to the same location on Sunday and seems to have higher IL about it. I think you may be right and this girl making more difficult should be nexted.

In my experience her attitude means low interest. It seems like she already has a place in mind that she wants to go, but she wants to use you to pay for it. If you have other options, I think it's best to reflect this girl's low interest back to her and tell her that you don't feel like leaving your town. Since she's a low-quality lead anyway, it's not worth it to invest much time or effort in her.

You know a girl really likes you when she agrees to whatever you suggest. Those are the women that are worth investing your time in. When a girl is trying to lead, it tends to end badly.

It's the same when looking out for red flags. They are subtle. The red flags tend to be small details that you have to try hard to notice. Noticing this small bit of disrespect and low investment right at the beginning can help you avoid dealing with a lot of disrespect and bad behavior later on.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

This is all really great advice guys, thank you! Makes a lot of sense. She saw that I read her message (I have read receipts on), and texted me again saying "Is that okay??".

My plan from here is to either suggest meeting up for coffee in a town halfway between us, or meeting up in that city but exploring a different part of the city that has a cool cafe I know of for coffee. If she refuses, then I'm nexting her. I have other options for the weekend and although this girl is an HB8, the juice ain't worth the squeeze - especially if I end up looking like a chump.

 

[Lookatu]

Also remember, a women should be interested in getting to know YOU, regardless of the venue if she is really interested.

If a women get's more hung up on the venue, it means you aren't first priority on her list and she'd rather be seen, try new foods, be in new environments, etc. over just getting to know you.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Good sign, in my opinion, her asking if it's OK. NOW you have the frame. This is her subtle way of saying "LEAD."

Yep...don't bend over backwards planning those first few dates. A drink or two at a local watering hole is absolutely fine. Chili's, TGIF, etc. are my favorites because they're ubiquitous, and the drinks are usually cheap, and it's easy to find a table or seat.

That's a really great analysis man - maintaining the frame while her subtly saying lead. Our plan is to just get coffee now, which I don't mind going a little further for because I haven't been into the city in a while and it's going to be a beautiful day. She has been texting me a lot since then and definitely seems to be more interested in me than getting some free food out of it, but we will see! Thanks again.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

Also remember, a women should be interested in getting to know YOU, regardless of the venue if she is really interested.

If a women get's more hung up on the venue, it means you aren't first priority on her list and she'd rather be seen, try new foods, be in new environments, etc. over just getting to know you.

Great point man! She definitely seems more interested in me, as she has continued to text me a lot since I made the decision for us to meet up and get coffee. She wasn't b!tchy or put up a fuss about it and genuinely seems excited to meet. But we will see on Saturday!

 

[manfrombelow]

Great point man! She definitely seems more interested in me, as she has continued to text me a lot since I made the decision for us to meet up and get coffee. She wasn't b!tchy or put up a fuss about it and genuinely seems excited to meet. But we will see on Saturday!

Goodluck man.

 

[bat soup]

Also remember, a women should be interested in getting to know YOU, regardless of the venue if she is really interested.

If a women get's more hung up on the venue, it means you aren't first priority on her list and she'd rather be seen, try new foods, be in new environments, etc. over just getting to know you.

Yes, and they can get to know you perfectly well without gulping down a load of free food.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Why would you ever set up a brunch date for a first date?

If distance is over a certain amount it might make sense to find something halfway.

 

[manfrombelow]

Why would you ever set up a brunch date for a first date?

If distance is over a certain amount it might make sense to find something halfway.

I'd never do brunch because daytime is not ideal to make romantic & sexual stuff happen.

 

[Edison Chen]

It doesn't matter your frame is Alpha or Beta in One night stand，the only goal is to bang with her，right？If she would like to bang with you then where you want to meet doesn't matter.But If you are looking for a LTR，this is a red flag. If a woman doesn't want to meet you at the place you choose, that means she doesn't care or like you, as long as the location isn't too far away. But a journey of less than an hour is perfectly acceptable. If she doesn't want to meet you at the place you set out to meet, then your frame of the relationship is probably beta

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm almost always willing to meet them at the location of their desire, on my dime, for a 1st meetup...for drinks only.

I wouldn't be offering food on the 1st meetup, regardless of distance, but ESPECIALLY if you're traveling to someplace close to her.

I would make it clear that you're willing to come to her, but that you want to meet for a drink or two. If she has a problem with that, then I would avoid her.

Most of the time they have no issues with meeting up for drinks only.

And, if there's a second meetup, you're almost certainly going to be in a more favorable position of having her come to you.

Depending on where you live you may not be able to do drinks only. Some states require any alcohol purchase include food due to COVID restrictions and as a way to limit the people out just drinking.