what we do subculture or counter culture movement?

[eli77]

what would you describe it?

 

[Poonani Maker]

 

[Black Widow Void]

I'm too lazy to do an internet search, but I'll put in my 2¢

I believe that "counter culture" is more of a movement. These are people that either didn't fit in (sour grapes) or were disenfranchised with the status quo and therefor created their own movement.

"Sub-culture" is in my opinion, folks that aren't really into making a 'statement' or longing for a sense of "belonging," unity or recognition.

To give an example; Back in my teens, I liked a (then new style of music) called "punk rock" but unlike my friends that dressed the part; spiking their hair, having mohawks, ripped clothes etc..(counter culture) I never got into putting on the uniform (sub culture).

 

[speed dawg]

Reality.

 

[Kotaix]

I would call it a counter-culture because we don't like the way the mainstream is going.

But I think speed dawg is right, it's just reality

 

[eli77]

id go with sub culture im still stuck with clothes from the 90's

 

[zekko]

I believe that "counter culture" is more of a movement. These are people that either didn't fit in (sour grapes) or were disenfranchised with the status quo and therefor created their own movement.

It makes sense that most counter culture members are young people. They haven't found their way in the world yet, they haven't established their value yet, they haven't established their resource streams. So they want to rebel against the world that they haven't learned to succeed in yet. Later, once they have learned what to do and how to succeed, they tend to no longer belong to the counter culture.

Sometimes you see older people in the counter culture, but these are the exception. They never found their way, or they decided to embrace the counter culture and never leave it, for whatever reason. But most people leave it as they mature. The old saying: If you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're older and not a conservative, you have no brain.

 

[Serenity]

So they want to rebel against the world that they haven't learned to succeed in yet.

There's more ways to succeed in life, but this is one of the hardest ways. It's much easier to learn how to work within the system than it is to change the system. As you say, these people haven't established their value or resource streams, they don't stand a chance to change the world. If they really do want to change the system they'll have to learn the current system first to take advantage of it and accumulate resources, then if they get really good at it they might stand a chance. By then they would probably have accepted it as it is anyways.

 

[Black Widow Void]

So they want to rebel against the world that they haven't learned to succeed in yet.

There's more ways to succeed in life, but this is one of the hardest ways. It's much easier to learn how to work within the system than it is to change the system. As you say, these people haven't established their value or resource streams, they don't stand a chance to change the world. If they really do want to change the system they'll have to learn the current system first to take advantage of it and accumulate resources, then if they get really good at it they might stand a chance. By then they would probably have accepted it as it is anyways.

Being part of my favorite forum members, I always take time to read ya'lls postings... but I have to disagree with the above shared opinion.

"Success" and "Value" are subjective terms. You both have always appeared unafraid to post your unique opinions here. And I respect that. However, judging by both above postings, it appears that you two seem to measure your own worth by ether surrendering to conformity or by the standards of others?

 

[Serenity]

"Success" and "Value" are subjective terms.

I absolutely agree, it is ultimately subjective.

I consider it a success to get what I desire, if conformity leads me to my goal faster than rebellion then obviously I will take the most efficient path. If playing the system is faster than defeating the system, then I will play the system. Sometimes going against the grain is faster, I will of course take that path if that serves me better

It has nothing to do with my self-worth. I stopped depending my self-worth on what everyone else thinks of me years ago, whether or not I can reach my goals in the estimated time matters more, I self-evaluate. In some situation others perception of me matters to reach a goal, whether I accept those terms is evaluated on a case to case basis. Sometimes it's not worth it to me, sometimes the end justifies the means.

 

[zekko]

it appears that you two seem to measure your own worth by ether surrendering to conformity or by the standards of others?

I wouldn't say that, people contribute value in a variety of ways. It was more of an observation of what I see happen with people as they mature.

Second, I can't help but notice how many of our traditional values are under attack, and I don't like seeing it. For instance, right now in the US there is a strong push for socialism, which is a proven failed system, a serious mistake, and completely against the founding principles of the US, and of self reliance. So my comments are partly in that context. The counterculture youths are largely socialists.