Getting ahead of myself

[flowtheory]

Yep... that is your job as a man. I suppose it is okay to ask a woman out by text.. I don't do this but sure, that's fine. But don't be surprised if she never answers you. If I call a chick and she doesn't pick she is either screening my call, or she is busy. I just leave a message for her to return my call... I don't ask her out by VM. If she doesn't return my call... I have my answer... she isn't interested.

The only time I will text is when I'm trying to coordinate times/places. I'll text an address and a time because that way she doesn't have to write anything down... she can just copy/paste it in a calendar or in Google Maps. It's more efficient.

After you've been doing this for a few weeks, she will be the one reaching out to you consistently... IF she really likes you. If she never does, no problem. If you want to keep seeing her because that is what you want, then you will have to be the one doing all the work. However, if you are crazy enough to try and make an actual relationship with a chick, then if she isn't into you so much that she is doing all the chasing you are wasting your time. If she never chases you anything lasting more than a few months is not possible.

You don’t wait for a woman to reach out to you in the earlier stages? I always feel if the guy is doing all the date planning, the woman just likes the attention she’s getting from said guy. But if a woman is initiating she’s ‘risking’ being rejected for a greater possible outcome. Because if I were a celebrity or someone with high status, she would be reaching out!

 

[AttackFormation]

Funny. Kind of different though. But I’ve noticed when women are not interested, they are actually pretty open about their unattractive dating lifestyle or seeing other guys. However when a woman is actually interested she’s selling herself through words to the man. Makes sense. I don’t go around telling women how useless and horrible I actually am if I’m interested.. haha

Let them promote themselves to you but detach yourself from what they say. There are really two kinds of warning signs IME:

#1 She promotes herself as the "good" girl. This one is obvious because it'll all be about satisfying the tradcuck in you. She doesn't sleep around, she hasn't had many partners or may even claim to be a virgin, she doesn't have sex before getting to know someone, calls other girls slvts/wh0res and says she'd never be like them - keep quiet and nod when they try to peddle this stuff and let it pass out through the other ear, but take note. The more she does this the more manipulative she is and the more reality is likely to be the opposite of what she says.

#2 She drops warnings of who she really is. "I can be really mean when I don't care about someone... haha" - this kind of stuff is the mark of someone on the spectrum of personality disorders, but you probably won't pay it any mind at the time she says it in the beginning because she hasn't started devaluing you yet. #2 doesn't seem to apply to the girl you were talking about... and let's hope it stays that way.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

My perspective as a woman is a bit different. @RangerMIke and @SoSuave666 both touched on it...

Do not expect quality women to chase after you. Not early on...really not ever. They won't. Even in this day & age there are girls who are raised to see what a man does. Does a man reach out? Yes? He's showing interest. Interested women respond to a man's leadership and initiative. Women look for leadership/initiative/interest/investment as a way to gauge a man's interest level.

If you as a man sit back and passively wait for chicks to contact you...you are signaling low interest to her. Good women have options folks. Either you man up & step into the batter's box and reach out...or she will assume YOU aren't interested and she'll choose from the men who are showing interest.

Passive non masculine refuse to take initiative is an enourmous turn off. You'll lose out on the better women if you expect every girl to chase you.

Leading is the man's role. In the beginning and always. Even at nearly 1.5 years in I expect leadership/initiative/investment from my boyfriend. And the ratio is roughly 75% him reaching out first & 25% me reaching out first. I always respond and I always have. His initiative & investment tells me he is still engaged...my response & investment tells him I'm still engaged. The women who chase after him? Flatter his ego but he tires of them. Too easy. Not requiring his effort & investment.

Smart women know that men need to make an effort to appreciate the value in something. So smart women wait for the man to make an effort, doesn't have to be grandiose...but make an effort. Contact her; ask her out. If she responds favorably? If she is receptive & encouraging? She likes you! Repeat process.

Otherwise she will assume YOU are low interest and will drift away. That is how well raised high self esteem girls date.

If you want one, be a man & lead. Contact her. Ask her out. Simple.

 

[flowtheory]

Let them promote themselves to you but detach yourself from what they say. There are really two kinds of warning signs IME:

#1 She promotes herself as the "good" girl. This one is obvious because it'll all be about satisfying the tradcuck in you. She doesn't sleep around, she hasn't had many partners or may even claim to be a virgin, she doesn't have sex before getting to know someone, calls other girls slvts/wh0res and says she'd never be like them - keep quiet and nod when they try to peddle this stuff and let it pass out through the other ear, but take note. The more she does this the more manipulative she is and the more reality is likely to be the opposite of what she says.

#2 She drops warnings of who she really is. "I can be really mean when I don't care about someone... haha" - this kind of stuff is the mark of someone on the spectrum of personality disorders, but you probably won't pay it any mind at the time she says it in the beginning because she hasn't started devaluing you yet. #2 doesn't seem to apply to the girl you were talking about... and let's hope it stays that way.

She doesn’t necessarily promote herself as a good girl. She just said with me she has a lot of anxious feelings because I make her feel, and she wasn’t expecting to find that right now because she had just wanted to focus on her career, said she wouldn’t make the best partner right now because her heart was cut out in her last relationship (8 months ago), says she’s only had one, one-night-stand and she hated it, went 4 years once without sex, doesn’t want pressure or anything because she does that to herself, wants to go slow. She didn’t seem manipulative in this sense. But when we kiss she’s insanely passionate. I’ve fingered her for like 2 minutes and rubbed heavily over clothing, played with her breasts, but she pushes my hand away eventually and has to stop to take a breath.
I take what she says at face value and of course I have my reservations about it all. She seems like she gives herself pretty fully to things and doesn’t want to end up getting hurt. So her trust seems like it has to be built.

But the question here, really, is do I stand by waiting for her to chase me too, or do I just keep making myself the vulnerable one and chase her, at the risk of her using me for validation or something because she likes the style of attention I give?

 

[BeExcellent]

Let them promote themselves to you but detach yourself from what they say. There are really two kinds of warning signs IME:

#1 She promotes herself as the "good" girl. This one is obvious because it'll all be about satisfying the tradcuck in you. She doesn't sleep around, she hasn't had many partners or may even claim to be a virgin, she doesn't have sex before getting to know someone, calls other girls slvts/wh0res and says she'd never be like them - keep quiet and nod when they try to peddle this stuff and let it pass out through the other ear, but take note. The more she does this the more manipulative she is and the more reality is likely to be the opposite of what she says.

#2 She drops warnings of who she really is. "I can be really mean when I don't care about someone... haha" - this kind of stuff is the mark of someone on the spectrum of personality disorders, but you probably won't pay it any mind at the time she says it in the beginning because she hasn't started devaluing you yet. #2 doesn't seem to apply to the girl you were talking about... and let's hope it stays that way.

Be careful not to get too jaded. Sometimes she actually IS the good girl. Don't be so dismissive based on what we talk about here.

I date seeking a man to lead. I'm raising my daughters this way...and I was raised this way.

You'll have to decide what kind of woman you are dealing with OP. That is an ongoing evaluation process. Guys here say AWALT. They aren't. The best women end up wifed up to happy husbands.

So there are guys and gals out there in happy relationships. Those don't happen by being passive as a man.

 

[flowtheory]

Advice from the old lady:

My perspective as a woman is a bit different. @RangerMIke and @SoSuave666 both touched on it...

Do not expect quality women to chase after you. Not early on...really not ever. They won't. Even in this day & age there are girls who are raised to see what a man does. Does a man reach out? Yes? He's showing interest. Interested women respond to a man's leadership and initiative. Women look for leadership/initiative/interest/investment as a way to gauge a man's interest level.

If you as a man sit back and passively wait for chicks to contact you...you are signaling low interest to her. Good women have options folks. Either you man up & step into the batter's box and reach out...or she will assume YOU aren't interested and she'll choose from the men who are showing interest.

Passive non masculine refuse to take initiative is an enourmous turn off. You'll lose out on the better women if you expect every girl to chase you.

Leading is the man's role. In the beginning and always. Even at nearly 1.5 years in I expect leadership/initiative/investment from my boyfriend. And the ratio is roughly 75% him reaching out first & 25% me reaching out first. I always respond and I always have. His initiative & investment tells me he is still engaged...my response & investment tells him I'm still engaged. The women who chase after him? Flatter his ego but he tires of them. Too easy. Not requiring his effort & investment.

Smart women know that men need to make an effort to appreciate the value in something. So smart women wait for the man to make an effort, doesn't have to be grandiose...but make an effort. Contact her; ask her out. If she responds favorably? If she is receptive & encouraging? She likes you! Repeat process.

Otherwise she will assume YOU are low interest and will drift away. That is how well raised high self esteem girls date.

If you want one, be a man & lead. Contact her. Ask her out. Simple.

Great response.
I guess I’ve been pampered by women in my past.. or I’ve dated needy women. Usually women go half and chase me and initiate texts. 50/50.

And I’ve read here several times (not in this thread) that a woman should be showing high interest and reaching out.

Looking at facts.. she hasn’t once rejected my proposal for dates. Even when she had a cold and I suggested a recachule, she still said she wanted to go out..

Fock.. maybe I’m entitled to her chasing me and in turn I’m sacrificing my drive and masculine abilities?
But I have been hurt in the past and burned so it makes sense that I would want a woman to chase me.

 

[AttackFormation]

went 4 years once without sex,

Hahahaha, it always makes me laugh and smile when different guys come here saying their girl tells them among other things that she's gone X amount of time without sex. You have to give them credit, the rest of what she says sounds plausible enough that you may believe it which of course is the point, but this one is the "peek behind the curtain while the theater is going on".

It really doesn't matter though, the whole point is what your attitude is. If you're not a tradcuck, then you won't have any qualms about them not fulfilling your fantasies anyway.

But the question here, really, is do I stand by waiting for her to chase me too, or do I just keep making myself the vulnerable one and chase her, at the risk of her using me for validation or something because she likes the style of attention I give?

Ask yourself what you want her for and go for that. Do what you want to do and you won't have to ask yourself these kinds of questions.

 

[BeExcellent]

Look at this another way @flowtheory. You think you are the one being vulnerable. So is she. She is telling you things that are deeply personal, she is showing you her physical passion, but she is also demonstrating self respect and self esteem by allowing the physical side of things to develop slowly.

She is dating like the type of woman I described above. Obviously you continue to vet her & observe her behavior...but she expects you to fill the masculine role. She isn't going to fill it for you. Ask her out. That's what a man does.

 

[flowtheory]

Hahahaha, it always makes me laugh and smile when different guys come here saying their girl tells them among other things that she's gone X amount of time without sex. You have to give them credit, the rest of what she says sounds plausible enough that you may believe it which of course is the point, but this one is the "peek behind the curtain while the theater is going on".

It really doesn't matter though, the whole point is what your attitude is. If you're not a tradcuck, then you won't have any qualms about them not fulfilling your fantasies anyway.



Ask yourself what you want her for and go for that. Do what you want to do and you won't have to ask yourself these kinds of questions.

First of all wtf is a tradcuck? Haha

And second, she would have no reason to make a story up like that. She openly divulged it. I couldn’t see anyone being like “I went on a 4 year dry spell!” And being excited about it; her tonality expressed difficulty and frustration but still self choice.

And third, yea do what I want and if it ends up in rejection, it’s better than letting something sail away with no answers

 

[flowtheory]

Look at this another way @flowtheory. You think you are the one being vulnerable. So is she. She is telling you things that are deeply personal, she is showing you her physical passion, but she is also demonstrating self respect and self esteem by allowing the physical side of things to develop slowly.

She is dating like the type of woman I described above. Obviously you continue to vet her & observe her behavior...but she expects you to fill the masculine role. She isn't going to fill it for you. Ask her out. That's what a man does.

Okay. Good points. Really good points. I’ll send a text at 1:37pm.

 

[AttackFormation]

Be careful not to get too jaded. Sometimes she actually IS the good girl. Don't be so dismissive based on what we talk about here.

I date seeking a man to lead. I'm raising my daughters this way...and I was raised this way.

You'll have to decide what kind of woman you are dealing with OP. That is an ongoing evaluation process. Guys here say AWALT. They aren't. The best women end up wifed up to happy husbands.

So there are guys and gals out there in happy relationships. Those don't happen by being passive as a man.

The problem isn't whether she's a virgin or has had sex 1000 times with 3 guys or sex once with 1000 guys or whatever. It's your ego investment as a man in her sexual history at all which is the real trap. That's why I disregard what she says, all it is is an attempt to manipulate my ego. What I really care about when it comes down to it is how much she turns me on and how much I like her. Ego investment in her sexual history is a tradcuck trap, but something it's all too easy to fall into... it's a work in progress to get yourself out of that hole. So that's why I'm skeptical about "good girl" acts. It's not the sexual history I care about one way or the other, but the manipulation.

 

[BeExcellent]

You're probably xNTJ personality type. Most women aren't like this at all.

True. I think I'm INTJ. Never got formally evaluated but I might one of these days.

But irrespective of that I know many great women who are really happy in their relationships/marriages with a great guy...and what I described is how these women date.

 

[flowtheory]

True. I think I'm INTJ. Never got formally evaluated but I might one of these days.

But irrespective of that I know many great women who are really happy in their relationships/marriages with a great guy...and what I described is how these women date.

And how do you know as a man if you’re the prize to her if she never initiates or chases. I had believed if woman is HIGH interest she will chase and Initatie because she simply won’t be able to hold back.
Why would a woman let a great guy just walk away without engaging him?

 

[RangerMIke]

You don’t wait for a woman to reach out to you in the earlier stages? I always feel if the guy is doing all the date planning, the woman just likes the attention she’s getting from said guy. But if a woman is initiating she’s ‘risking’ being rejected for a greater possible outcome. Because if I were a celebrity or someone with high status, she would be reaching out!

NO! Early on if you don't do something... nothing is going to happen.

I think the problem with a lot of dudes is they are thinking too much about relationships. An actual GIRLFRIEND will be reaching out and trying to spend time with you... until she is your GIRLFRIEND you should not expect her to act like one. A woman that you are causally dating is not a relationship, you are not her 'before anyone else' AKA BAE.... Unless you are her number 1 potential prospect, you are just another dude she is fvcking.

You are dating other chicks: she is dating other dudes. You are just one dude that is hitting her up. If you act like you don't care.... I know this will be a SHOCK to many PUA and BS relationship coaches, but she will assume YOU DO NOT CARE. I know... such a revelation!!! Surprise!

If you believe acting like an indifferent 'Alpha' is going to magically get a chick to chase you you are kidding yourself and just making excuses to sit on your @ss and not doing anything. A chick will ONLY chase you after you have given her indications that you are REALLY interested in her by making an effort.

At that point it is up to her. If you are doing all the work and she is just sitting back and not doing anything for you... well she has other better options and you are not one of them. My philosophy is so the fvck what. Really who cares? If you like spending time with her and you have fun with her, and she isn't actively trying to avoid you then just keep casually dating her. Who cares if she's not chasing you... so what. As long as you are having fun it doesn't matter.

The only time it is important what level of effort she is putting in is if you want some kind of a relationship... if this is what you want (God help you) then you better make godd@mn sure she is reciprocating effort, otherwise the 'relationship' is DOA.

 

[AttackFormation]

First of all wtf is a tradcuck? Haha

Tradcon is an acronym for traditional-conservative. Tradcuck means that the tradcon is a white knight, which some would say that he is anyway by definition of being a tradcon.

 

[flowtheory]

NO! Early on if you don't do something... nothing is going to happen.

I think the problem with a lot of dudes is they are thinking too much about relationships. An actual GIRLFRIEND will be reaching out and trying to spend time with you... until she is your GIRLFRIEND you should not expect her to act like one. A woman that you are causally dating is not a relationship, you are not her 'before anyone else' AKA BAE.... Unless you are her number 1 potential prospect, you are just another dude she is fvcking.

You are dating other chicks: she is dating other dudes. You are just one dude that is hitting her up. If you act like you don't care.... I know this will be a SHOCK to many PUA and BS relationship coaches, but she will assume YOU DO NOT CARE. I know... such a revelation!!! Surprise!

If you believe acting like an indifferent 'Alpha' is going to magically get a chick to chase you you are kidding yourself and just making excuses to sit on your @ss and not doing anything. A chick will ONLY chase you after you have given her indications that you are REALLY interested in her by making an effort.

At that point it is up to her. If you are doing all the work and she is just sitting back and not doing anything for you... well she has other better options and you are not one of them. My philosophy is so the fvck what. Really who cares? If you like spending time with her and you have fun with her, and she isn't actively trying to avoid you then just keep casually dating her. Who cares if she's not chasing you... so what. As long as you are having fun it doesn't matter.

The only time it is important what level of effort she is putting in is if you want some kind of a relationship... if this is what you want (God help you) then you better make godd@mn sure she is reciprocating effort, otherwise the 'relationship' is DOA.

Great response. Thank you. That makes complete sense. I’ve always just been under the impression - like I mentioned in a previous post - that it should be both people pursuing each other. And if she’s not initiating then there is an issue with her interest level.

 

[AttackFormation]

I’ve always just been under the impression - like I mentioned in a previous post - that it should be both people pursuing each other. And if she’s not initiating then there is an issue with her interest level.

This makes sense in scenarios where both of your options are relatively balanced with each other, like if neither of you use social media or OLD, she doesn't party much if at all and she has girl rather than guy acquaintances. But it's untenable today with the 100s/1000s more and easier options that the woman has compared to the man, so we have to adapt to the new dynamic - you simply are a nobody to her unless you're already preselected somehow (like if you meet through a warm approach in real life). If you're not preselected, you have to make the first effort due to the options disparity.

 

[RedZone]

Hey Guys,

I’ve noticed one thing I have a tendency to do with women whom I have a high interest in (which is rare) is that I get ahead of myself. Visions of what we can be. Romantic. Want to plan dates rather than just seduce them sexually. Picking out Christmas presents. Think about them throughout the day. Etc.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s like the early stage of developing oneitis. However it’s too soon, and I know that. And all the while I’m still spinning other plates. However when I’m with those other plates all I think about is the woman I have high interest in!

How can I take it back a bit. But first, why is this there?
Is it neediness or what?

It's human nature. Sometimes we can't help to think about the future with that person. It's really a bad thing. Only bad if it doesnt work out and cant move on.