Reasonable physical escalation on a first date at a table?

[MoreThanSmooth]

A lot of my 1st dates tend to be dinner/drinks. Usually at a bar that does good food or whatever rather than a serious restaurant to keep it a bit more casual.

Anyway, I've had a bunch of dates where most of the content of the date is great, but I really let myself down on the physical flirtation and cultivating a more romantic atmosphere.

I find the banter comes naturally to me, but for some dumb reason I'm really lame at turning up the heat a bit. I've had multiple girls tell me no second date purely because they felt I just lack that passion you want on the first date - which I do tbh.

I'd really appreciate if you gents could give me some tips, so here's a general rundown of the average first dinner date for me:

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1. We'll meet on the street. I'll give the girl a hug, nice and easy.

2. We'll walk to the place and at this point normally the chat's going fine, there'll be some laughter and smiling. I'll be trying to get some eye contact in there and there's normally a flirtatious atmosphere.

3. While we're walking I'll go for a light natural touch or two to the arm if I can, maybe a gentle hand on the shoulder when we get to the door of the place. Nothing creepy or forward, strictly gentlemanly.

4. Some drinks, some food. More chat, more laughs. 9 times out of 10 I have the conversation nailed down. (The 1/10 is when I once started yakking total s*** about buses and ended up randomly talking about bus timetables for God knows what reason at the start of the date, that was so bad it became funny )

5. This is the point where I usually start to lose the flirty vibe. We're sat with a table between us. The eye contact and stuff is great, and if I've had some alcohol I'm probably thinking that "Damn I could kiss her" feeling.

But there's no physical closeness to get the flirtiness going properly. I've had a chick's leg brush on mine accidentally and that's about as flirty/sexy as it gets for the whole date. Reaching across a table to play with a girl's hands just seems ridiculous because the distance makes it clumsy and high risk. So my only option is to sit there smiling and clumsily doing verbal flirtation.

How do you get around this normally?

6. Date ends. I want to go for a kiss, but usually at this point although we've probably had a great chat about life and the meaning of the universe/whatever I've lost the smokin' hot vibe completely because I've been sat 4 feet away with my hands on the table the whole time.

Kiss normally doesn't happen because without the physical groundwork I should be doing over the date I can't judge accurately if it's a good move. Fast forward to getting my butt ghosted (kind of deservedly tbh, for being a puss with the kiss) or struggling to get the 2nd date even if she hits me up.

--

I 100% don't want to be a groping, lecherous sleazer on a first date. But I feel like I'm always going the other way, coming across as this cool chaste gay best friend because I'm not escalating. And it just doesn't feel "natural". Easily my biggest dating weakness.

Any help appreciated guys, I'm reading the DJ bible articles at present too

TL-DR: How do you escalate physically/escalate "heat" when 75% of your date involves sitting at a table opposite someone?

 

[marmel75]

Hand on her knee...hand running up the outside of her leg...hand running up the inside of her thigh...grabbing her hand and putting it on my c0ck...playing with her pvssy through her jeans/pants...running your hand along the outside of her breasts...

This is the type of escalation you shoukd be doing...obviously start with the lowest one and work your way up...I've done this numerous times...too many to count. You need to up your boldness level.

 

[Murk]

Yeah be bold, I read the palm reading thing ages ago or maybe saw a vid on it and always always use it, but I added my own spin to it which escalates further.
Stroke her hand while giving the BS palm read (make up some **** about her finding a hot guy who she'll have great sex with) then go up her arm and say I can read arms too, they will laugh, then I say I can read breast/thighs also and give her a naughty smile/wink, they laugh, it's cheeky, sets a more flirtatious tone and they are thinking about sex.

Honestly it's a really easy method, you just need to realise that they are on a date to be touched and flirted with, when you be bold and see that it pays off you remember to keep doing what works.

Having said that I'm no master and often find myself in your postion (mostly when I was dating chicks when I had a gf and wasn't in the zone).

A flirtatious beginning to set the tone is always the way to go, they will think you're always like that, if you wait to long you get nervous, it seems rushed/forced towards the end and generally has worse results.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

Well, s***. I definitely have a lot of work to do on boldness then, my current level is "our arms touched, that was probably too much"...lol

The most frustrating thing is that I really don't understand why I'm so freaking shy about this stuff first date. It's weird not understanding your own reaction to this stuff. These girls must think I've never touched a woman before! Second date I find it 2000x easier, I guess it's just a practice thing...?

I sometimes do partner dancing classes with girls and I can stroke hands, cuddle up and flirt all day long no problem. Make it a first date and suddenly just...blargh.

Hand on her knee...hand running up the outside of her leg...hand running up the inside of her thigh...grabbing her hand and putting it on my c0ck...playing with her pvssy through her jeans/pants...running your hand along the outside of her breasts...

This is the type of escalation you shoukd be doing...obviously start with the lowest one and work your way up...I've done this numerous times...too many to count. You need to up your boldness level.

Thank you for the tip. Yeah...I would feel outrageous doing that stuff atm...lots of work to do...hah.

 

[derby1]

You need to up your boldness level.

this ^^^ just dont do a me..........where i worked the night perfectly, but then drank a bit to much, took a chick bk got messed up and spat on her pusy,

Tbf it still worked she came round last night, said shed never been on such an intense first date, just took her 3 days to start speaking to me again after treating her like a *****

The most frustrating thing is that I really don't understand why I'm so freaking shy about this stuff first date

you are shy because you see the woman as a prize even though you dont believe conciously you do.......she will do something on the date that makes you realise shes not quite the princess you pictured and actually no better than the other 27 million women in the area so to speak

 

[fanatic22]

I usually lead her out holding her hand, then when I’m outside the venue its pretty easy to pull her in with my hands on her waist, intense look into her eyes for a second, then go for it. She knows its coming when you pull her in so if she isn’t trying to escape then you’re in. Even with a very friendly/non sexual date that has still always worked for me.

 

[Murk]

Matched this Filipino chick on Badoo in the summer, she was like 6/10 and really keen/horny. Met her at a pub near my office and basically within 5 mins of sitting down upstairs with our drinks I was fingering her. I was super bold because I did not give a single **** about her and had no intention of seeing her again. So while reading marmels post my first thought was... "no dude that's too much" it's actually spot on.

I took that girl back to my office and made her suck my **** in the disabled toilets on ground floor while i recorded it, wasn't turned on enough so went floppy when I tried to bang.

She was the 3rd girl I cheated on my ex with and I'm still trying to arrange a meet with her but shes "married" some BS muslim non official wedding - defo getting her to my house asap thanks for reminding me.

 

[marmel75]

Well, s***. I definitely have a lot of work to do on boldness then, my current level is "our arms touched, that was probably too much"...lol

The most frustrating thing is that I really don't understand why I'm so freaking shy about this stuff first date. It's weird not understanding your own reaction to this stuff. These girls must think I've never touched a woman before! Second date I find it 2000x easier, I guess it's just a practice thing...?

I sometimes do partner dancing classes with girls and I can stroke hands, cuddle up and flirt all day long no problem. Make it a first date and suddenly just...blargh.



Thank you for the tip. Yeah...I would feel outrageous doing that stuff atm...lots of work to do...hah.

Women feel outrageous when you DON'T do this stuff...food for thought.

 

[derby1]

I read the palm reading thing ages ago or maybe saw a vid on it and always always use it,

you should categorically not be doing any stuff like this, this is poor PUA material, women read magazines all day everyday that tell them the stunts they pull off..............what you do is be yourself not a comedian or a jester ....just yourself

let her do 80% of the talking, look at her bottom lip in subtle amounts here and there as shes talking and mumble like your listening to her...

escalate this way with very light touching , PUSH/PULL Does she touch you back etc etc

Everything in subtle amounts not OTT

 

[Murk]

you should categorically not be doing any stuff like this, this is poor PUA material, women read magazines all day everyday that tell them the stunts they pull off..............what you do is be yourself not a comedian or a jester ....just yourself

let her do 80% of the talking, look at her bottom lip in subtle amounts here and there as shes talking and mumble like your listening to her...

escalate this way with very light touching , PUSH/PULL Does she touch you back etc etc

Everything in subtle amounts not OTT

I hear you, it was something I read and implemented years ago with good results, being a joker is my thing, I'm quick witted and naturally funny, lighthearted, that is me and therefore my game, and it works for me. Your subtle approach works for you and that's great but bulldozing through also has it's merits.

 

[ubercat]

Hmm I wonder if you can peak too early. Yep I've had plenty of regulation First Dates where you do the 3 bar bounce, escalate all night and bang the chick.

But I have had a couple of dates where we got to third base but the chick wouldn't come back to mine.

And then the second date didn't go well. It was like we had lost the mystery and momentum.

Now there might have been other factors. Both of these chicks were hot but had really boring personalities. So it was pretty much going to be pump-and-dump and maybe they picked up on that.

And the trouble was that since I had already triggered their ASD I didn't think just inviting them back to mine for the second date would work. Maybe I should have just tried that.


In second date situation like that how do you guys go about rebuilding the momentum?

 

[Southbound29]

Whenever you guys are sitting down together she needs right beside you. Sitting across or away from a chick messes with the sexual vibe going on. Not in a good way.

 

[Murk]

Whenever you guys are sitting down together she needs right beside you. Sitting across or away from a chick messes with the sexual vibe going on. Not in a good way.

Yes, that's why you do the 3 bar bounce, have in mind a couple of other decent bars to bounce to so you can escalate during the night. Never stay in one bar, too static, boring, take her on an adventure even if it is to the same race course you drive through regularly.

@ubercat I usually keep flirtatious texts in between the date and remember where I got to with her last time then start there, greet with a kiss on the lips if you ended it that way, instincts will take over from there.

 

[ubercat]

Yeah I did that. That's the odd thing second date started well and then slid.

I'm wondering if they have got too comfortable and I should have done a bit more push pull.

I mean it's a couple of chicks out of hundreds not going to keep me up nights but it's always worth seeing if there is a pattern.

 

[Murk]

I'm not really familiar with push pull or any pick up techniques, I'm prob doing it all wrong

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

Okay so I'm going to tell you boys about me. I'm probably going to destroy my own man-cred on this forum, certainly with the more macho lads here. But I believe in honesty and being yourself, so whatever. If anyone thinks less of me knowing more about me, they can p*ss off

The biggest irony with me is that I have a pretty decent understanding of having good non-sexual relations with women in general. I've had tons of female friends I haven't been sexual with, some of whom actually wanted to bang me. I know a lot about how they think and what they really like. (The more astute among you will note this means a lot of getting friend-zoned. Yep. But it's not always a negative).

This rational knowledge of relationships from observation leads to me giving a lot of advice to my male friends that frequently gets them laid. All my mates ask me stuff, I tell them, they get laid. All the time. I'm a solid wingman.

Despite this apparent wealth of rational knowledge and all this wingman BS, I'm mid twenties and I haven't actually had sex myself yet. Balls out, I said it

When I use my "clever advice" myself, I always f*ck it up.

I used to be "that shy fat guy" through my teens, so that basically eliminated sex early on for me. I hit 20 and got tired of being the fat guy, totally changed my lifestyle and worked out hard every day. Dropped 6 stone, put on several stones of muscle. Took up martial arts. I'm not ripped to shreds but I'm bigger and more jacked than most of my friends. My body image is a million times better and I get a lot more female attention now.

However, my college degree has been insane. Hard scientific discipline, working 16 hour days a lot and in an all-male environment - not much time for girls.

Nonetheless I've come close to having sex literally dozens of times, usually at parties where I get quite a bit of attention. But so far I've either chickened out because I wasn't 100% sure whether I should go for it (puss I know), or when I have wanted to I've just had some b*ll**** luck.

I've had girls moving away after we started dating, major bereavements f*cking up relationships, my last proper girl was smoking hot and really cool. We went out for four months and got on great but we couldn't have sex so I ended it (she had an undiscovered permanent STI lurking she got a few weeks before meeting me...happy fun times. I should have ended it earlier but she was intelligent and really fun to hang out with).

So yeah, all this combines to mean I can actually chat the pants off a girl, I've kissed a lot so I'm good at it and I've got the banter but I'm totally f*cking useless at sexual escalation. Sex just fills me with nervous dread, but I'm competing with guys who have been doing it for years and are happy smashing a girl first date. Sucks to be me I guess.

There you are, full disclosure, balls or lack of on display. If anyone wants to know how to really pleasure a girl just ask btw, they've told me enough times I've just not done it yet...lol

 

[marmel75]

How is getting friendzoned with a chick you want to bang not always a negative?

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

How is getting friendzoned with a chick you want to bang not always a negative?

Oh yeah if I want to bang her of course it sucks! And yeah, that's happened plenty, not gonna lie.

But I don't always have an attraction for them (obviously) and even if you do get friended by a hottie, you still get access to her social circle...though again, that's not done me much good beyond learning about how to do sex without doing it, lol.

Having girls you're not sexually interested in as friends is good, having girls you are sexually interested in as friends varies (either sucks balls or isn't that bad), but it's not terrible and still widens that social circle.

That's how I see it anyway, but I don't think I have the experience to be telling a guy like you what's what when it comes to sex

 

[Southbound29]

Okay so I'm going to tell you boys about me. I'm probably going to destroy my own man-cred on this forum, certainly with the more macho lads here. But I believe in honesty and being yourself, so whatever. If anyone thinks less of me knowing more about me, they can p*ss off

The biggest irony with me is that I have a pretty decent understanding of having good non-sexual relations with women in general. I've had tons of female friends I haven't been sexual with, some of whom actually wanted to bang me. I know a lot about how they think and what they really like. (The more astute among you will note this means a lot of getting friend-zoned. Yep. But it's not always a negative).

This rational knowledge of relationships from observation leads to me giving a lot of advice to my male friends that frequently gets them laid. All my mates ask me stuff, I tell them, they get laid. All the time. I'm a solid wingman.

Despite this apparent wealth of rational knowledge and all this wingman BS, I'm mid twenties and I haven't actually had sex myself yet. Balls out, I said it

When I use my "clever advice" myself, I always f*ck it up.

I used to be "that shy fat guy" through my teens, so that basically eliminated sex early on for me. I hit 20 and got tired of being the fat guy, totally changed my lifestyle and worked out hard every day. Dropped 6 stone, put on several stones of muscle. Took up martial arts. I'm not ripped to shreds but I'm bigger and more jacked than most of my friends. My body image is a million times better and I get a lot more female attention now.

However, my college degree has been insane. Hard scientific discipline, working 16 hour days a lot and in an all-male environment - not much time for girls.

Nonetheless I've come close to having sex literally dozens of times, usually at parties where I get quite a bit of attention. But so far I've either chickened out because I wasn't 100% sure whether I should go for it (puss I know), or when I have wanted to I've just had some b*ll**** luck.

I've had girls moving away after we started dating, major bereavements f*cking up relationships, my last proper girl was smoking hot and really cool. We went out for four months and got on great but we couldn't have sex so I ended it (she had an undiscovered permanent STI lurking she got a few weeks before meeting me...happy fun times. I should have ended it earlier but she was intelligent and really fun to hang out with).

So yeah, all this combines to mean I can actually chat the pants off a girl, I've kissed a lot so I'm good at it and I've got the banter but I'm totally f*cking useless at sexual escalation. Sex just fills me with nervous dread, but I'm competing with guys who have been doing it for years and are happy smashing a girl first date. Sucks to be me I guess.

There you are, full disclosure, balls or lack of on display. If anyone wants to know how to really pleasure a girl just ask btw, they've told me enough times I've just not done it yet...lol

Dude, don't explain yourself just tell your story, ppl in here will listen.

 

[fanatic22]

Do not jerk off again until you’ve had sex. Also, fvck a bunch of 6s till you’re confident enough to not get soft from the nerves when you’re faced with an 8.