Market Trend Analysis - GOOD MEN! Where are they??

[The Duke]

That is, for sure, a struggle! I just had a date with a really nice guy Friday night. I don't feel any kind of draw to him and I know that is, in part, because he was being genuine and nice.

Yes, I have agreed to another date. He appears to be what I am looking for so I will explore the potential for awhile.

Guys- this is a great example of why you should be very careful with what a woman says. They will sit here all day long and cry they can't find a guy who is "genuine and nice", and when its sitting right in front of them they don't want anything to do with him because he didn't trip her emotional triggers.

 

[sosousage]

Guys- this is a great example of why you should be very careful with what a woman says. They will sit here all day long and cry they can't find a guy who is "genuine and nice", and when its sitting right in front of them they don't want anything to do with him because he didn't trip her emotional triggers.

just try to relate to what she is saying anyhow then cast some laughable jokes and boom you have your connection with her!

 

[Urbanyst]

Actually, for me, attraction isn't based on some dude being an a$$ out the gate,v or bring"hot" or having muscles, or a nice car, etc. I actually have standards and I screen. I also know myself will enough to know that attraction builds for me over time, so I don't toss them away if they don't make my panties wet immediately. Attraction, for me, grows over time and with shared intimacy.

In other words.. you change your mind about a man once you learn he has more VALUE than you originally thought.

Proves my point though lol. Its not about being "nice" its about VALUE.

 

[sazc]

In other words.. you change your mind about a man once you learn he has more VALUE than you originally thought.

Proves my point though lol. Its not about being "nice" its about VALUE.

If by "VALUE" you are referring to understanding that he is not a junkie, or a drunk, that he, in fact, is a professional as he claims, that he is generally well dispositioned, that he has clarity about his role in all his relationships and how he affects then, that his child raising values somewhat align with mine, that he tends towards being financially conservative, that he doesn't inflate himself, his achievements, his accomplishments, etc, etc,etc - then yes, I wait to figure out what value he has.

To me, VALUE comes from compatibility. Determining compatibility takes time.

It's called screening. There is no sense in jumping into something with a complete stranger just to have the rose colored glasses ripped off your face in 4-6 months.

But that's just the way I operate. Screen.

And, no, people do not have disfunctional tattooed on their forehead. Being able to spot sometime with dysfunctions takes a keen ear/observation, but first you have to know what dysfunction looks/sounds like. If someone is claiming that it is hard to screen people for dysfunction, then they may have similar dysfunction themselves.

Screening for dysfunction is also easier to do if you take your time.

 

[Urbanyst]

If by "VALUE" you are referring to understanding that he is not a junkie, or a drunk, that he, in fact, is a professional as he claims, that he is generally well dispositioned, that he has clarity about his role in all his relationships and how he affects then, that his child raising values somewhat align with mine, that he tends towards being financially conservative, that he doesn't inflate himself, his achievements, his accomplishments, etc, etc,etc - then yes, I wait to figure out what value he has.

To me, VALUE comes from compatibility. Determining compatibility takes time.

It's called screening. There is no sense in jumping into something with a complete stranger just to have the rose colored glasses ripped off your face in 4-6 months.

But that's just the way I operate. Screen.

And, no, people do not have disfunctional tattooed on their forehead. Being able to spot sometime with dysfunctions takes a keen ear/observation, but first you have to know what dysfunction looks/sounds like. If someone is claiming that it is hard to screen people for dysfunction, then they may have similar dysfunction themselves.

Screening for dysfunction is also easier to do if you take your time.

You will be single for life.

 

[marmel75]

Aside from fat ugly dudes who have money, I have never seen nor met fat a ugly dude with a hot 8/9/10 chick. Personality is important, but hot chicks like the ones sought after by most men here will place a lot of importance on a man's looks, because they place a lot of importance on their own looks, which is the main reason why they look hot. They want to attract the top tier men in either looks or money or both and personality is up there but not at the very top. Why would they put effort into staying fit and looking hot to end up with a fat ugly guy average Joe?

Appearance matters. Be fit and groom well.

I've seen plenty.

 

[marmel75]

All well and true, but she has to like your looks first. All that personality and confidence sh*t comes after in the Long-term and relationship phase. Putting those traits ahead gets you friendzoned.

Maybe if she sticks around for a long time and gets tired of the kok carousel. Your ability to create a gaming laptop or write episodes of Game of Thrones may be appealing later, if later even occurs. Why wait? Second place is first loser.

Don't forget, women drop men for any reason. Just like a job won't hire you for whatever reason.

No that's not always true...what happens is they start to FIND reasons why they think a guy is cute. Btw, please don't read into this as I'm advocating that a guy should attempt to do this.

And no, you can get friendzoned if you are just part of the same social circle and just hang out together but never really show an interest or ask her out, etc...you only get friendzoned once you get them out. There is a pretty big difference between the two.

 

[sazc]

You will be single for life.

Highly doubtful.

Lol, Triggered you huh? So then, which set of those qualities do you posess that got you so scared?

Junkie? Alcoholic? Financial issues?
I'm positive you are a mess and you ONLY posture here.

You realize that your slip and post exactly like your other profile @bigneil sometimes, right?

& With that, I am done rewarding your need for attention and drama. You simply can't cover that personality defect up by using a different screen name @bigneil

 

[Urbanyst]

Highly doubtful.

Lol, Triggered you huh? So then, which set of those qualities do you posess that got you so scared?

Junkie? Alcoholic? Financial issues?
I'm positive you are a mess and you ONLY posture here.

You realize that your slip and post exactly like your other profile @bigneil sometimes, right?

& With that, I am done rewarding your need for attention and drama. You simply can't cover that personality defect up by using a different screen name @bigneil

LOL.

You're giving yourself too much credit. I don't care what women over 30 think or what their standards are.

 

[AJ84]

I've seen plenty.

Maybe you see it more where you live? I really don't see hot girls with fat and ugly average guys here in Toronto.

In an ideal world the fat and ugly but nice guy would get the hot girl. But we don't live in an ideal world and I don't think we should send the message to fat ugly guys that all they need is a nice personality and they will get model like girlfriends. It's kind of the same as the fat acceptance trend in women where they are told it's ok to be fat because it's sexy and men will be drawn to the 'inner beauty'. You know this is not the case and yes yes men are more visual etc but women are visual too. The young 20 something coveted hot girl demographic has tons of options, as many men here have stated. Unless she's stuck in a city with only average fat ugly guys, she will choose good looking fit guys.

 

[BeTheChange]

This is consistent with what I see in my social circles. That is that at the upper echelons of the SMV marriage is just fine, thank you. Getting married has never been an issue for the hottest & best women, especially if they are from good well to do families...and its a good deal for the best men (who are able to attract and keep the hottest and best women) too. Marriages that last tend to have greater net worth, more emotional stability, are happier, enjoy companionship/family and etc. I see lots of couples that have been together 40+ years in my profession. They are honestly quite smug almost without exception about how life has turned out for them.

Some well known examples? Roger Staubach, Mike Pence, John Elway, Adam Wainwright, George W. Bush, David Bowie, Jerry Seinfeld, Bob Gibson, Jay Leno and countless other men who nobody would recognize but who do have done very well at life, including marriage.

My point? Be in the upper echelons. Be in the top tier. Be the best. There are real benefits in making the effort required to get into that upper tier group, whether or not marriage/kids/family is a personal goal.

The good news for men ought to be that you don't have to be great looking to be there. If you are in the top tier then you'll have many choices and you'll have access to the most desirable women (from a long term standpoint.) Being in the top tier isn't a guarantee but your odds of success are better. Divorce rates are substantially lower for those who are more educated, more successful, more actively involved in the church or synagogue, and those who marry later in life according to a number of studies you can find on a simple Google search. Interestingly you can find evidence that suggests that one spouse being financially dependent on the other (irrespective of which spouse) reduces odds of divorce as well, especially if the couple is well off financially. In my own marriage we would still be married if my ex hadn't been so extremely LAZY on the domestic front.

I think more people are lazy/undisciplined than are willing to be hard working/exhibit self discipline in life. And then these same people complain when all life's benefits don't get handled to them. So don't be lazy. If you're a woman (as I am) that means take care of yourself, stay fit, stay thin, be self reliant, get educated, be hardworking, be willing to be led. If you're a man that means set goals, work hard, be self reliant, stay in shape, and lead your life without apology. Men's focus is more traditionally on success and women's focus is more traditionally on looks, but both men and women would do well to take care of both looks and self-sufficiency. What I did find interesting was a statistic that noted divorce to be higher among couples where both are contributing about equally to the family income. It appears to suggest a power struggle in the relationship as opposed to well defined roles of leader and follower. So there seems to be something (+) about one spouse being dependent on the other for resources. I can tell you from experience that NOT having financial strain makes things much easier because it takes away a major source of conflict and strife. My marriage never suffered from financial struggles. That was/is a benefit of being successful.

Where would you suggest meeting these type of women?

The reality is for young men, trying to improve their station in life is no easy feat. Advancing their careers, aggressively learning new things, investing in their finance and health - all this is immensely time consuming. But of course like attracts like and so a man, as a general rule, needs to be a certain standard if he wishes to attract and keep beautiful women from the upper echolens of society.

It's catch-22. Most advice aimed at finding the hottest women requires time (e.g. cold approaching), something the time poor young man can I'll afford if he is truly trying to invest in himself.

Club/tinder girls don't interest me anymore. The low hanging fruit no longer satisfies. I came from nothing so the idea of matching with a upper middle class woman definitely appeals. Im basically Littlefinger, without the psychotic tendencies. Id marry for love (i have accepted marriage will be necessary to lock down woman high up the social ladder) but I am still practical. I'm considering a website called elitesingles but am still sceptical that truly "high quality" women would ever need to use online dating

In my experience all my friends who are dating women I'd consider marriage quality met them at university or in the first few years of work. I went to an "elite" university and started my career at an "elite" firm that recruits hundreds of graduates a year. Now in my late 20s I'm finding it a lot harder to meet the standard of women (certainly in terms of social background) that were abundant in my days as a student and in my early career. I'm beginning to feel as if I may have actually missed the boat.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Highly doubtful.

Lol, Triggered you huh? So then, which set of those qualities do you posess that got you so scared?

Junkie? Alcoholic? Financial issues?
I'm positive you are a mess and you ONLY posture here.

You realize that your slip and post exactly like your other profile @bigneil sometimes, right?

& With that, I am done rewarding your need for attention and drama. You simply can't cover that personality defect up by using a different screen name @bigneil

Urbanyst isn't bigneil.

Let's stop prodding @bigneil and move on. He doesn't have multiple accounts.

 

[Solomon]

Not to make it a race thing

But Lower(or middle class which we all know is being eradicated) middle class white men have opted out, and now are going MGTOW. You still see higher middle class get married because they it's expected (For appearance sake of course)

However most guys just can't compete in the dating market nor are they willling too

 

[BeExcellent]

Where would you suggest meeting these type of women?

The reality is for young men, trying to improve their station in life is no easy feat. Advancing their careers, aggressively learning new things, investing in their finance and health - all this is immensely time consuming. But of course like attracts like and so a man, as a general rule, needs to be a certain standard if he wishes to attract and keep beautiful women from the upper echolens of society.

It's catch-22. Most advice aimed at finding the hottest women requires time (e.g. cold approaching), something the time poor young man can I'll afford if he is truly trying to invest in himself.

Club/tinder girls don't interest me anymore. The low hanging fruit no longer satisfies. I came from nothing so the idea of matching with a upper middle class woman definitely appeals. Im basically Littlefinger, without the psychotic tendencies. Id marry for love (i have accepted marriage will be necessary to lock down woman high up the social ladder) but I am still practical. I'm considering a website called elitesingles but am still sceptical that truly "high quality" women would ever need to use online dating

In my experience all my friends who are dating women I'd consider marriage quality met them at university or in the first few years of work. I went to an "elite" university and started my career at an "elite" firm that recruits hundreds of graduates a year. Now in my late 20s I'm finding it a lot harder to meet the standard of women (certainly in terms of social background) that were abundant in my days as a student and in my early career. I'm beginning to feel as if I may have actually missed the boat.

To be frank its a bit of a crapshoot on the surface. If you want to meet more affluent people, including the sort woman you envision you have to go where
affluent people go. That means spend the money to live in an area where they live and matriculate at places within that area that they also frequent. You can go to the local coffee shops, say, but the coffee shop on the Upper East Side in Manhattan say is going to a light years different crowd than the coffee shop in Queens. That's the way it is.

If you have ties to an elite university, see about getting involved in alumnae functions and groups. If you are still in proximity to that school, enroll in an ad hoc class you are interested in to expand your knowledge and as a benefit give you exposure to the social environment on campus or find something associated with the school where you can serve as a volunteer.

What I see going on here and elsewhere with young single men is this realization (and disgust) with the expected norms set forth by society. Call it what you like. Some call it the female imperative, some call it societal constraints, some call it blue pill or whatever but it's all the same sort of thing. Men who become aware of the system or feel left out of the system become disenchanted and rebel against it. But in the process they can get left on the outside looking in. They throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

The problem, as you have noted @BeTheChange is that the most desirable women actually buy into the norms and expectations and they tend to go through life phases looking to meet those expectations. So at university these women date with the goal of seeking husbands and building futures, and they choose a man and get married toward the end of their university experience or early on in their working years as you note. My mother did this, my grandmothers both did this, my sisters all did this, my girlfriends all did, and I did too. So during the decade of a man's 20s the best women are actively getting selected by men for marriage and the market reflects this over time. It is what it is. I certainly think many men are simply swept along as well and fall into the expectation unawares (or perhaps they want this as well), but it doesn't turn out all bad for these men as some here might like us to think.

I know too many happy marrieds who have been together too long and who are pleased as ever that they made their choices in their youth. Couples who have raised children together, suffered death and loss of parents together, met life head on together and come through it stronger and with deep gratitude for their partners. OK enough soap box. Back to the question posed...

Affluent areas, alumnae groups, charity endeavors, volunteer endeavors, university class, fitness classes in an area with the sort of people you'd like to meet (yoga, ballroom dance, runner's clubs, cycling groups, surfing groups, etc.) art openings, wine tastings, fine dining groups, church or synagogue in the sorts of areas where people you'd like to meet attend, etc. etc. Even if you don't meet a woman immediately doing such things you need to meet the types of people socially who live as you would like to live and make friends. By expanding your social contacts you will expand both your social network and your sphere of influence. You'll meet people through your social networks. You should mention what a nice girl so-and-so appears to be, how nice it would be to know a woman like her. You should also take advantage of social circles with your buddies who have already met women you deem marriageable. These women have friends and aquaintances. Mean while keep working on yourself and maximizing your own personal potential. In doing these two things you'll find yourself creating what you seek because you'll put yourself in a place where opportunity and preparation can meet up. You absolutely can manifest this desire now that you have identified the desire. You can do it purposefully and yet experience it organically. Trust the process and trust yourself.

I've given this advice to others before around here and been confronted with the response of "...but I don't WANT to be like THOSE people...I think THOSE people are fake", etc. etc. etc. Please note that such an attitude is one from a person who doesn't believe in his own worthiness to have or experience things THOSE people have or enjoy, it is a self-disqualification and it suggests the need for further personal growth to feel one is worthy to be accepted by THOSE people whoever THOSE people may be.

I don't believe you have that attitude, BTC but some do. There is no reason in the world why you shouldn't enjoy the fruits of life as you envision it. Set your goals, take the appropriate actions and make it so.

Cheers, BE

 

[MatureDJ]

But Lower(or middle class which we all know is being eradicated) middle class white men have opted out, and now are going MGTOW. You still see higher middle class get married because they it's expected (For appearance sake of course)

However most guys just can't compete in the dating market nor are they willling too

YouTube philosopher "Roller" Steve Hoca says that MGTOW are simply men who are experiencing True Forced Loneliness (TFL) and are in denial about it.

Here is a Roller Steve's classic discussing this:

 

[WitnessGR]

In my experience with women not just romantically but casually as well, they seem inclined to want to divert blame to any other thing except themselves.

When I hear or see the question "where are all the good men gone" it implies that there is nothing wrong with herself, it is the men, they are the ones not correct, they are the ones who are defective. It is a narcissistic position, which generally is the position of quite a few women.

Really the more apprioate question one should be asking is along the lines of "why am I not attracting high quality men"

there are quality men everywhere, quality men are with the quality women.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Not to make it a race thing

But Lower(or middle class which we all know is being eradicated) middle class white men have opted out, and now are going MGTOW. You still see higher middle class get married because they it's expected (For appearance sake of course)

However most guys just can't compete in the dating market nor are they willling too

I believe you have ground in both your points.

What you forget instead is that that lower to middle class white men are the ones who are more targeted from politically correct bullsh1t in the work place, in courts and in social life settings, thats why they have more reason to avoid women compared to upper class whites and minorities.

Minorities are immune to polical correct terrorism and wealthy whites either cant get fired cause they are the boss, are worshipped from women instead of struck and most of all can afford great lawyers when sh1t get serious.

 

[Urbanyst]

Minorities are immune to polical correct terrorism and wealthy whites either cant get fired cause they are the boss, are worshipped from women instead of struck and most of all can afford great lawyers when sh1t get serious.

WOMEN are also immune to forced political correctness. A woman can scream: "CUT HIS BALLS OFF!!" and people will shrug. If a man screams: "SLAP HER ACROSS THE FACE!!" he is now the most vile trash that ever existed.

Didn't @Tenacity get banned just for talking about the desire to be violent towards women? Lol.

I disagree that minority MEN are immune to political correct terrorism. They might get away with more in SOME situations, but nothing like what women get away with.

 

[Tenacity]

WOMEN are also immune to forced political correctness. A woman can scream: "CUT HIS BALLS OFF!!" and people will shrug. If a man screams: "SLAP HER ACROSS THE FACE!!" he is now the most vile trash that ever existed.

Didn't @Tenacity get banned just for talking about the desire to be violent towards women? Lol.

I disagree that minority MEN are immune to political correct terrorism. They might get away with more in SOME situations, but nothing like what women get away with.

I sure did and what makes it even more sad......I was banned off a male forum that routinely discusses this hypocrisy of how women can get away with doing something that a man can't, along with how society CATERS to women at the downfall of men.

Sosuave really isn't that far from the mainstream. For example, you have chicks on here like @sazc who does a lot of secret lobbying in the background to get certain members banned. And of course, the all MALE Moderator Team of Sosuave listens to her and caters to her.....why? Because she's a woman.

I know for a fact that she lobbied to get @Poon King, @da dynamically, @deesade, @bigneil, and myself banned and guess what happened? All 5 of us were banned. That's no coincidence.

She even started out "befriending me" on here by randomly PMing me talking about how Poon King was the worse thing since slice bread and how she doesn't understand why he wasn't banned yet (he wasn't banned at the time). But when I started to disagree with her on various topics, all of a sudden she turned her attention to getting my a.ss banned and we all know the story....

Plus go on @sazc page and notice that she is "following" all of the Moderators who post the most on the forums. Why do you think that is? It's because she communicates with them often and wants to remain on their good side when she is lobbying to get someone banned.

 

[Urbanyst]

I sure did and what makes it even more sad......I was banned off a male forum that routinely discusses this hypocrisy of how women can get away with doing something that a man can't, along with how society CATERS to women at the downfall of men.

Sosuave really isn't that far from the mainstream. For example, you have chicks on here like @sazc who does a lot of secret lobbying in the background to get certain members banned. And of course, the all MALE Moderator Team of Sosuave listens to her and caters to her.....why? Because she's a woman.

I know for a fact that she lobbied to get @Poon King, @da dynamically, @deesade, @bigneil, and myself banned and guess what happened? All 5 of us were banned. That's no coincidence.

She even started out "befriending me" on here by randomly PMing me talking about how Poon King was the worse thing since slice bread and how she doesn't understand why he wasn't banned yet (he wasn't banned at the time). But when I started to disagree with her on various topics, all of a sudden she turned her attention to getting my a.ss banned and we all know the story....

Plus go on @sazc page and notice that she is "following" all of the Moderators who post the most on the forums. Why do you think that is? It's because she communicates with them often and wants to remain on their good side when she is lobbying to get someone banned.

Hmm.. seems like some of the ladies here are trying to feminize the forum. Guys can never have a place just for ourselves can we?

I'm probably on @sazc sh*t list too because she always humiliates and embarrasses herself when she talks to me lol. Read some of those threads if you like comedy.