Obummer calls for police to respect the looters.....

[Fatal Jay]

For real, the only dude on here written novels and no one is taking the time to read it.

 

[Vulpine]

If you're scared for your life, and with your adrenaline is going on overdrive, you're going to be pulling that trigger as fast as you can. You don't stop after every shot and assess the damage it's done.

Editor's note: Maria Haberfeld is chairwoman of the Department of Law, Police Science and Criminal Justice Administration at John Jay College. She is the author of "Critical Issues in Police Training." The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author

Have you ever read Ayn Rand's Fountainhead?

I might as well go back to sleep now that they have the "big guns" of the spin doctorate out. A more blatant ground-laying of a legal defense to brace the public for a pre-determined outcome is not to be found.

"He's only human". I believe you, Ms. chairwoman of the Department of Law, Police Science and Criminal Justice Administration. Fine. The deceased may have taken a bullet, through the hand, to the head, and fell forward - only to catch another bullet in the head on the way to the ground. I have nothing to be irritated about: I'd be scared of an unarmed person, too, despite a taser, pepper spray, a bullet proof vest, an army (with military surplus) waiting on my radio call, a big gas-guzzling SUV to hide behind, a gun, and my training that was all paid for with tax dollars.

*fluffing pillow*

...the crowd almost had me fooled into being disappointed. But, now that a cop told me to be ready to obey their agenda, I'll obey. The shooter was only human. Oopsie.

*Zzzz... weeeweweweweeee... ZZzz... weeweweweweee...*

 

[Maximus Rex]

Rex Says

This is happening everywhere there is a black majority. American cities right now. They raise up minority participation through the roof, even when it's not necessary. They fire white employees and hire black ones. It's cronyism AND racism.

Which American cities are firing whites and hiring blacks? Cite your source so I find the discrimination law suit against that city.

Again, I point to Zimbabwe and South Africa, the blacks treat the whites worse than the whites treated the blacks.

Mobage did things for Mobage, he does has the best interest of his people at heart and scapecoated whites to detract from his ineptitude as a leader and to take away from the rampant corruption in his country.

At least there was no state-sponsored terror under Apartheid.

1) Apartheid was state sponsored terror.

2) Show where the South African government is funneling weapons to groups that want to systematically kill off whites.

But I know, I know. We 'deserve' it.

Europeans conquered these lands and basically did to them what happened to the Indians here. These people have a legitimate gripe and right to be pissed off, also the whites if they don't what's going on they should return to the land of their ancestors.

Right on cue, the deflective shaming.

No it's not. You're on message that's primarily about getting better with women, however, when I looked at the threads you post, you hardly have any threads related to getting better with women or your personal experiences with them. If you do post them, because I'd like to read, however, you do seem to have a lot threads b*tching about "plight of the white man in American." Now post about whatever you want, but I just found the sh*t kinda odd.

Can't he get puzzy and have his savory meals and keep noticing patterns? Or do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

No they don't, but dude isn't posting about game, there's no balance. Not dictating what person should or post about, and what patterns are those?

No sh1t, all types of poor people were helped out because of these programs, but blacks were aided and they benefited the most out of these programs.

According to who? If we benefited so much from these social programs, then why has the black community been economically, educationally, and politically stagnant for the past fifty years.

Blacks were still raised by it?

Raised in what sense?

Denying Puerto Ricans to buy goods from their store based on their ethnicity, calling the cops on them for no reason, accusing them of stealing, blacks vandalizing Puerto Rican owned businesses because of their race, black gangs killing Puerto Ricans just because of who they are, is known as hate crimes which is all based on racism.

Where is this happening at?

Donald Sterling tried to evict his black tenants, black store owners evicted Puerto Rican citizens from their storefront property.

BTW, Puetro Rican isn't a race.

You call them and guys like Donald Sterling racist,

Maybe because he is.

but you want to give black gangsters a free pass who hold the same views.

Name the black gang that holds the same views as the Aryan Brotherhood? Is it the Bloods, Crips, Vice Lords, Gangster Disciples? Which one? Believe it or not a white person could conceivably get into one of those gangs, if they proved themselves to be a cool dude, however, a black person isn't getting into the Aryan Brotherhood or even a Mexican gang.

That's being a black sympathizer because you refuse to acknowledge that the black gang members commit violent crimes based on race as well.

I never said that didn't, but sh*t like that is extremely rare. You don't have black gang members sitting around talking about, "Let go find some white people to f*ck up today."

You are a black sympathizer Rex. Blacks can hold any prejudice belief they want, be a racist expousing racial epitaphs towards whites, and you are just fine with that because according to you

You feel it's ok for blacks to hold racist views but don't want to accept they are indeed racists. But then you want to attack whites for holding those same ignorant views towards blacks. You can't only have it your way dude. Two wrongs don't make a right.

When did I said it was fine? I was just offering a rationale on why people feel they way they do and if you really want to know, I don't think it's fine because these attitudes are counterproductive. Okay, you feel some kinda way about white people? What are you trying to do about it? We tend to blame white people for sh*t, but there's never any follow up or action.

refusing to believe that there is anything wrong with your own race.

This is where you lost with your pseudo intellectual bullsh*t.

1) I didn't say nor did I infer that.

2) One I (nor does any black person believe that b.s. you just spouted.

3) There are a lot of things with the black community, but that isn't the topic.

Why can't you understand your own comments?

Why can't you understand what other people write.

It's not relevant? WTF? You think If Richard Nixon beat Kennedy in 1960 that blacks would have any Civil Rights at that time? You're crazy man. :crazy:

Considering that Nixon signed issued Executive Order 11478, http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11478.html which required all federal agencies to adopt "affirmative programs for equal employment opportunity." He would have.

Nixon viewed this situation as not only unfair to African Americans, but as a waste of valuable human resources which could help the nation grow.
Among the most pressing civil rights issues was desegregation of public schools. Nixon inherited a nation in which nearly 70% of the black children in the South attended all-black schools. He had supported civil rights both as a senator and as vice president under Eisenhower, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/nixon-domestic/

More on Nixon's Civil Rights record as president.

http://nixonfoundation.org/2013/02/robert-brown-president-nixon-strong-on-civil-rights/

You think Republicans like Strom Thurmond would support that movement? :crackup:

Be serious, dude.

You're a Republican I take it?

No, I'm not.

I don't understand you Rex, you refuse to believe that there are racist blacks in the world

Again, blacks don't control anything to allow us to be racist. Racism is about the control of institutions and denying others access to those institutions. Not wanting to sell a Puerto Rican in Yonkers a Snickers and a Coke doesn't make you racist. It makes you prejudice. If you believe that blacks are superior to other races based on race that makes you black supremacist.

and you refuse to believe that Democrats gave blacks their Civil Rights. Why do you think most blacks support the Democratic Party?

Because it wasn't solely Democrats who passed helped get the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and to believe so is historically inaccurate.

80% of Republicans in the House and Senate voted for the bill. Less than 70% of Democrats did. Indeed, Minority Leader Republican Everett Dirksen led the fight to end the filibuster. Meanwhile, Democrats such as Richard Russell of Georgia and Strom Thurmond of South Carolina tried as hard as they could to sustain a filibuster.

Of course, it was also Democrats who helped usher the bill through the House, Senate, and ultimately a Democratic president who signed it into law. The bill wouldn't have passed without the support of Majority Leader Mike Mansfield of Montana, a Democrat. Majority Whip Hubert Humphrey, who basically split the Democratic party in two with his 1948 Democratic National Convention speech calling for equal rights for all, kept tabs on individual members to ensure the bill had the numbers to overcome the filibuster.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/28/republicans-party-of-civil-rights

So could the Civil Rights Act gotten through Congress without that overwhelming Republican support?

 

[Maximus Rex]

Rex Says Pt. II

Ask him what the Democratic Party did for blacks and Civil Rights,

The Democratic Party isn't the savior of black people.

not to mention lifting them up to this very day.

What are these wonderful Democrats doing to lift up blacks today? If you go to Chicago or Detroit, those people would say not a damn thing.

Again, you are making things up.

Actually, I'm not, because you initially said this on Post 125 of the thread,

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=218729&page=7

Spin it anyway you like Rex, Affirmative Action helped blacks just as much as it did other minorities and women.

Which most people would interpret as meaning all groups involved received equal benefit. Then in that same sentence you said what you said in following quote.

I said that women, minorities, and blacks advanced because of it, and they did. It's not my opinion at all, it's a fact. Blacks advanced over the years because of Affirmative Action did they not?

Essentially you two different things in two different sentences. The point I was making was that one group benefited more than the others.

Without it, some blacks would never have been in higher positions. And you want to deny that? LOL

How do you rationalize sh*t? Again what I said was that white women were the biggest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action, then you come make baseless assumptions and back away from your statement when I've proved you wrong.

All you do, is want to argue stupid bvllsh1t twisting everything around. That's because you know you are wrong and refuse to admit it. :yes:

Naw, you do that bruh.

Doesn't matter if it was 10, 100, 1000, 100,000, or 1,000,000 blacks, they still advanced under the program which was it designed to do, to give them helping hand.

If 100 Women, 100 Hispanics, 100 Asians, 100 Blacks all advanced under Affirmative action, they still advanced because of the program, if there was no Affirmative Action they wouldn't hold their job today.

Okay.

There were less than 200 cases of voter fraud in the last election which equates to nothing. Those 200 votes did nothing.

Election Day Impersonation, An Impetus for Voter ID Laws, a Rarity, Data Show, http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/election-day-impersonation-an-impetus-for-voter-id-laws-a-rarity-data-show/2012/08/11/7002911e-df20-11e1-a19c-fcfa365396c8_story.html

Comprehensive Database of U.S. Voter Fraud Uncovers No Evidence That Photo ID Is Needed

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

Holy Sh*t, you were finally right about something.

This is why you are Ignoramus Rex, you don't know what's going on, but you continue you to argue with me spouting off stupid sh1t in which you know nothing about.

Dude, not for knowing you've done exactly that for this entire thread, you've tried to pass you opinions off as fact and only concerning this Voter ID thing have you proven to be right.

I know you never said to get a separate ID, the new VOTER ID Laws requires you to get a separate VOTER ID in which you have to pay $5 to get or you can't vote. You shouldn't have to pay money in order to exercise your right to vote. That's why blacks are against it in poor communities. That's a poll tax Einstein.

What states wanted to charge $5 for a voter ID card? After doing a quick Google search, I saw that the states that did have these things, are giving them away for free, but the question how long before the state sees this as a potential source of revenue. http://www.alabamavoterid.com/getFreePhotoVoterID.aspx

The problem is Rex, a 98 year old woman's drivers license from 20+ years ago is expired. When she would try to use that license at her polling location she would be denied her right to vote because it's expired and they said she didn't look the same as pictured.

If said woman's Social Security check was to stop coming and she needed ID at the Social Security office, she'd move mountains to get one. It's all an issue of priorities.

Voter ID laws force seniors to purchase a voter id's and take a picture or they can't vote.

From what my very quick research revealed, no state is charging for voter ids, maybe I'm wrong.

And you say that's not discriminatory for people who fought for our freedom, and for civil rights who have been voting all their life?

Even though the articles are I posted revealed that instances of voter fraud rare, I don't think that we should wait around until there is an instance of widespread voter fraud before we decide to do something about it. One of the problems with society is that we're reactive to things, as opposed to being proactive to solving problems. Having people present valid ID before their vote or register to vote is a proactive solution to what could potentially be a big problem one day.

 

[Jaylan]

Oh lord, Rex and Rascal...just stop it lol. Too many long posts...too much bold...I cant take it lol

For real, the only dude on here written novels and no one is taking the time to read it.

Gotta agree.

Why does everyone of your posts have to be 8 Million words?

Drugs?

Lol, I asked myself the same thing. Rascal makes good posts on Sosuave a fair amount of the time, but half the time I gloss over them because of the unnecessary fluff and length.

 

[Stagger Lee]

If you argue that police tend to be too discourteous, aggressive, often use too much force and get away with it, are becoming to militarized etc, then I think you have a valid argument and a discussion.

But if argue "people of color" are facing the brunt of it just because of their color or use the Brown case before the facts are in and make it about race, then it just a racial agenda and you invalidate the argument. Police are equal opportunity thugs. When we police beat up or shoot unarmed whites, they get away with it too.

You have to clean up your own house, neighborhood or community first before you can throw blame elsewhere.

 

[Maximus Rex]

...are becoming to militarized etc, then I think you have a valid argument and a discussion.

Dude, the police and sheriff's departments are paramilitary organizations. By their definitions they should be militarized. Personally, I think that we hold the military to a higher standard than we law enforcement.

Police are equal opportunity thugs. When we police beat up or shoot unarmed whites, they get away with it too.

Dude, blacks are disproportionately effective by police brutality, which is the reason why we're so passionate about this issue, because every police person in America has had a f*cked up experience with a cop. Elderly black people and children shouldn't have a poor opinion of the police, but they do.

The fact of the matter is that police don't f*ck with members of other communities as much as do with the black community is because they don't perceive those people as threats or criminals. Also, if the police decided they were to start f*cking with people, those people would hold the police brass and local politicians accountable if the police department started running a muck in their community, something that black people don't do.

You have to clean up your own house, neighborhood or community first before you can throw blame elsewhere.

Agreed.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Because they commit more violence and crime. It's like why muslims are looked at suspiciously and are probably contacted by law enforcement more.

Take the Brown case as an example. If he hadn't strong-armed robbed a store and walked down the middle of the street, he most likely would've never encountered the officer. If he had cooperated with the officer and not fought, he would've been arrested for the robbery, but would not have gotten shot. His friend with him was not arrested, charged or harmed because he didn't do anything violent or criminal.

You have to clean up your own house before you can place blame on others. If you clean up your own house you'll likely find these issues resolve themselves. The reason whites have less problems with the police is because they cause a much lower rate of problems for the police. The ones that do, are treated just as harshly by police.

 

[speed dawg]

Dude, blacks are disproportionately effective by police brutality, which is the reason why we're so passionate about this issue, because every police person in America has had a f*cked up experience with a cop. Elderly black people and children shouldn't have a poor opinion of the police, but they do.

That hate is taught from when the kids are very young. I know, I grew up in a 50/50 white/black town and we all went to school together. I heard it first hand. Racism in the black community was defined as, "white folks don't like black folks". Parents teach that sh*t. Not all, but the majority. It was stupid then and stupid now. I guarandamntee you that cops do NOT want to pull over a carload of black thugs at night, they know the danger. That perception exists for a reason, and it isn't because their skin is black.

The fact of the matter is that police don't f*ck with members of other communities as much as do with the black community is because they don't perceive those people as threats or criminals. Also, if the police decided they were to start f*cking with people, those people would hold the police brass and local politicians accountable if the police department started running a muck in their community, something that black people don't do.

Have you ever wondered WHY? You, Gaylan, Fatal Jay and others can spin, shame, etc. all you want but the bottom line is that I am not a white supremicist. That's your way of dodging the truth. Gaylan's vagina is so hurt that he resorted to d*ck size (I know he knows all about it through his numerous male experimentations). Side step side step, your ass is going to be line dancing pretty soon. You are going to have to address the BEHAVIOR of the black people in these poor communities at some point.

We do finally agree on cleaning up your own neighborhood first. I get it, nobody likes to hear the truth about your own people when it's damning. But it is what it is.

 

[Jaylan]

^Im no more responsible for what people in Ferguson do, no more than my white friends are responsible for the stupid shi!t you say on this forum. You'll find no post on this forum of me disparaging white people as a whole with terms like honkey, cracker, or anything similar. Yet you and noobology have used terms like mudshark, thug, and the N-word. Cry that you arent a white supremacist all you want, but the only time I come across terms like mudshark and the N word are on racist forums like stormfront, or when racist posters troll boards I read.

And Im very serious when I say I never see the term mudshark on any place but racist forums like stormfront or vnnforum. That said, you can keep whining online like you always do. Like I said, men like you are useless and accomplish nothing. I never could understand people who are so obsessed with hating on another race constantly and going as far as to bash people who date interracially. You care way too damn much. Youre like an AFC obsessing over the puzzy he's never gonna get. Because ill repeat....youre basically just an internet troll who keeps his mouth shut in the real world and influences no change in society.

You are as useless as a 30 yr old AFC thats bitter at the world because of his poor record with women and his low lay count.

Because they commit more violence and crime. It's like why muslims are looked at suspiciously and are probably contacted by law enforcement more.

Take the Brown case as an example. If he hadn't strong-armed robbed a store and walked down the middle of the street, he most likely would've never encountered the officer. If he had cooperated with the officer and not fought, he would've been arrested for the robbery, but would not have gotten shot. His friend with him was not arrested, charged or harmed because he didn't do anything violent or criminal.

You have to clean up your own house before you can place blame on others. If you clean up your own house you'll likely find these issues resolve themselves. The reason whites have less problems with the police is because they cause a much lower rate of problems for the police. The ones that do, are treated just as harshly by police.

Again I ask, are people such as yourself missing the articles and new security footage showing Brown pay for his merchandise? What about the articles where the store owner's attorney said they didnt call police?

Combine this with the shady past and present of the Ferguson PD and your assertions fall apart. Nevermind the fact that witnesses dispute the officer's story. Its no surprise that Ferguson PD was selective in the security footage they released--incomplete as it was. Its also no surprise that the PD is singing a different story than witnesses...the same PD that arrested and beat an innocent man a few years ago thanks to mistaken identity and coverup attempts.

 

[( . )( . )]

bla bla bla

Votes for bigger gov and less personal freedoms.....complains when "he" gets bigger gov and less personal freedoms. :crazy:

A mewling libtard vagina whining about police. Anyone else seeing the irony here?

 

[speed dawg]

Votes for bigger gov and less personal freedoms.....complains when "he" gets bigger gov and less personal freedoms. :crazy:

Gender guesser still says Gaylilly is a weak female.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Again I ask, are people such as yourself missing the articles and new security footage showing Brown pay for his merchandise? What about the articles where the store owner's attorney said they didnt call police?

Can you provide some links here? Either way, Brown did Assault the store owner. That can't be disputed.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Fox news and Hannity killing it tonight. Anyone interested in this story should be checking it out.

 

[Jaylan]

Can you provide some links here? Either way, Brown did Assault the store owner. That can't be disputed.

You miss the point of my earlier post. There's a reason the powers that be told Ferguson PD not to stupidly release security footage...especially incomplete footage before any court proceedings.

Whats disputable is the officer and the PD's account of the whole situation. Why is why the whole store issue doesnt matter much outside of the fact that the PD was trying to cover their ass by trying to make Brown look bad and make themselves look like saints.

Plus, if it can be proven that no theft occurred, it blows the whole "state of mind" issue out of the water. Combine that with witnesses disputing the officer's version of events, and things dont look good for Ferguson PD. I think the feds knew all this, which is why there originally was a directive not to stupidly release any tape.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...m-His-Store-Called-Cops-To-Report-Cigar-Theft

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...-Brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars#

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/store-owners-talk-about-surveillance-released/

And you can find articles on other sites as well. Doubtful Fox News Channel will discuss these things on air though. Id say this guy makes a good analysis of the video.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/did-michael-brown-steal-cigars-or-pay-for-them/

EDIT: Ive also read that the officer was allowed to drive his vehicle away from the scene. If there was a struggle in or on his car, isnt it part of the crime scene?

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

There's a reason the powers that be told Ferguson PD not to stupidly release security footage...especially incomplete footage before any court proceedings.

Whats disputable is the officer and the PD's account of the whole situation. Why is why the whole store issue doesnt matter much outside of the fact that the PD was trying to cover their ass by trying to make Brown look bad and make themselves look like saints.

They weren't trying to "cover their ass". They were releasing FACTS, and trying to not let the left wing media and the family's lies combine to loot and destroy the whole town.

Plus, if it can be proven that no theft occurred, it blows the whole "state of mind" issue out of the water.

No, not really. He Still bullied and manhandled the store owner. If that story is correct then the store owner probably didn't call the cops because he was scared. Snitches get stitches remember. Didn't want his whole store to get burned down because of it, which.....whoops, what do you know, it did.

Combine that with witnesses disputing the officer's version of events, and things dont look good for Ferguson PD.

The witnesses have all been discredited. Your confirmation bias is missing quite a few key elements to the witnesses statements.

And, it just so happens that no one, has the full scene recorded. There are eye witness reports of what happened, but none of these people have the whole thing recorded. It's only AFTER MB was killed that they started recording. How convenient.

Take your head out of your a$$.

I think the feds knew all this, which is why there originally was a directive not to stupidly release any tape.

The Feds? Like who, Holder? He's bumbling this thing just as bad as the rest of the black leaders down there. He, along with many other people, WANT this to be a white on black shooting. They want it to be a race thing. They DON'T want MB to be a thug who brought the shooting on himself. THAT is why "the Feds" didn't want the tape released.

EDIT: Ive also read that the officer was allowed to drive his vehicle away from the scene. If there was a struggle in or on his car, isnt it part of the crime scene?

Where'd you hear that? From the same place that sprung that other propaganda? If it was true, or even relevant in some way, then why isn't anyone else reporting it. You can throw 100 pieces of meaningless, hearsay, half-truths at a story, it doesn't mean they're going to add up, or all of the sudden turn into relevant FACTS. With as much scrutiny as this case is going to get, hopefully the only thing that will come out of all of this will be the truth. If the Cop doesn't get charged, or is charged and gets acquitted, I just hope, by that time, that you and everyone else who's apparently blind to what the rest of the world is seeing, will open their eyes.

On your second link, I got as far as:

Anyone attempting to justify this shooting by calling Michael Brown a "thug" or a "criminal" or who says that "he had a rap sheet" as various people have claimed over the past few days is, clearly, a racist.

Of course.

Most people are not "justifying" the shooting because MB was a "thug". I'm looking at EVERYTHING. THAT is why, at this point, I am believing the cop's stories over the "witnesses". And THAT doesn't make me a racist. So GTFO of here with that bull$hit.

 

[zekko]

If there are problems with the police in Ferguson and people want to protest that, then that is perfectly understandable. But why pick a strong arm robber to rally behind?

 

[speed dawg]

If there are problems with the police in Ferguson and people want to protest that, then that is perfectly understandable. But why pick a strong arm robber to rally behind?

No sh*t. What type of stupidity does it show for blacks/libs to pick a criminal as their martyr? At least Traaayvuuun was somewhat understandable.

 

[Jaylan]

*yawn* I knew I was wasting my time responded to Peaks. Considering he gets his news from Hannity and finds the dude at all credible should have told me Id be debating with another wall here. Like someone said earlier, most people already have their mind made up. Any facts that they get now will be twisted and danced back to their already chosen conclusion.

But as I said before, its not surprising that with all the other cases Ive shard here of police misconduct and harming of innocent people, that the media gets everyone into a frenzy over this Brown case. Hell, they know whats up. Its not like people here are taking their time to create threads of Dillon Taylor and John Crawford. The story isnt juicy enough and its even clearer in those cases how dumb police behaved. But even in the comments I see on those cases, there were still a few idiots that tried to rationalize the bumbling police actions.

Carry on.

 

[Jaylan]

One more thing though. Im sick of Don Lemon. The dude is like the CNN go-to anchor for continuous round the clock coverage on the each weeks hot news story. I was sick of him back when that Malaysian airplane went missing, because he was on tv all evening and all night it seemed. And then all day on the weekends he was on too lol.

Props to him for being a hard working man, but dude shut the fvk up. He's part of why I got sick of CNN. I watch international media outlets now. Less biased than American news anyways.

Edit : Let me make another comment on the case regarding the "state of mind" argument. It would male no sense to argue that Brown attacked the officer if Brown knew he committed no crime (based on the new video). If all he did was shove a store clerk, why would he attack was officer.?

A friend of mine was attacked by a guy outside a bar back in college. I had to jump in and try and save him. Cops broke it up and no one went after the first responding officer. Hell even the big guy who attacked my friend stopped as soon as he realized it was an officer grabbing at us all. And situations like that happen all the time, so i cant understand any line of thought saying Brown had the state of mind to attack an officer andgo for his gun.

The kid wasn't one to get in huge amounts of trouble with police....so why would shoving a store clerk mean he would attack police? Ferguson PD arent to be trusted easily given their record of corruption...nevermind their handling of this case.