My counselor has proposed a meeting between me and my ex-wife.

expos

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She left a voice mail...I didn't pick up when she called today. I texted her back just after dinner tonight with "busy right now....I'll touch base with you next week". No response from her.

So, 92 Days No Contact has been broken. I am OK.
 

Alvafe

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and I guess people said to not contact her again, its not your problem if she want anything its she who need to find you avaiable, don't matter what you think don't lose time with her again
 

Hullothere

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expos, kind of off topic but have you bulked up at all in weight since you were in shape and competing? I saw your other post about how skinny you were during that time.
 

expos

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Hullothere said:
expos, kind of off topic but have you bulked up at all in weight since you were in shape and competing? I saw your other post about how skinny you were during that time.
Yes. I take it you saw that photo? I'm in the mid 160's right now. I run maybe 20 miles a week now but lift three times a week. Track and road races are on the back burner for awhile. I look a little better...but still thin...but it hasn't hurt my game very much. I have found a new girl who seems very into me but I don't think I'm out of the fog yet.

At my very worst (when I was depressed over my wife and missing her a lot, I was still training hard but not eating because I was so HURT) I actually reached 149 lbs. My parents basically had an intervention with me and said YOU ARE FALLING APART.

I don't know how the hell I was competing during the indoor track season or how I DIDN'T break no contact. It was nothing short of a miracle.

There were nights when I would be on the track by myself at 8pm after work, finish the workout, and sit on the track and cry. It was really really bad.
 

Hullothere

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cool just wondering because I'm a similar build but prob skinner. 6'/150lbs. Trying to bulk up now and was just seeing if you saw any differences!

BTW you should read this post by Rollo, it explains how women are able to get over relationships so easy. Thats why it is not uncommon to see women already in new relationships just a week or two after breaking up with someone they were saying "i love you" too only a few days before. Its pretty ****ed up but they can't help it. Women and men just think differently when it comes to attachment and love. Kinda funny that the classic Disney romance and love actually applies more to guys than women.

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

Rollo had a great anecdote in the comments that I will quote here..

In 2003 my my brrother-in-law hung himself from a tree. He and my wife’s sister been married 20 years at that point since he’d got her pregnant at 17 and married her at 18. He did ‘the right thing’ and they had another daughter about 6 years later.
He wasn’t the greatest guy in the world, but he busted his ass constantly. He had to forego any idea of ever going to college, and pretty much succeeded in spite of it by sheer determination for 20 years. If he had a fault it was his possessiveness towards his wife. She has always been, still to this day, drop dead gorgeous, and he was just beta enough in his (lack of) understanding women to be insecure to recognize that he’d married well out of his league.
At the time of his death, she had been planning a divorce. At about 40 this guy had accomplished enough to have a nice house he’d partially built for them once they were empty-nesters. His son was off to college and their daughter not far behind. Now, she wanted to divorce. It was kind of a shock for my wife and I since her sister had always been marginally religious, but here she was making plans for divorce. It wasn’t until after the suicide that I had a better understanding of why.
Not even a year after he’d been buried her sister had wedding plans with a concrete mogul she’d met at the condo rentals they managed. Her ship had literally come in and she was now marrying a millionaire. She didn’t seem too broke up about the man she’d been living with since 17 being underground and it was all starting to make sense.
Over the course of a bout a year and a half she systematically extracted herself from all of her former social circles, and to this day is barely connected to her side of the family. Naturally her son and daughter benefited from this arrangement – her son getting hired on at his company and her daughter getting a full ride for a master’s degree. She now lives with him in their recently bought $1.5M mansion; and that property her former husband helped build for their later years? She sold it to buy her new Porsche.
This was over the course of 8 years. Now she’s become hyper-religious, perhaps as a coping mechanism for what she’s done. She and my wife still talk, but any idea of family get togethers is a struggle now.
Now all of that probably sounds pretty ****ed up, but understand this IS how it is. This is the game that’s being played and that was the ultimate defeat. I use this illustration here because it was instrumental in my ‘awakening’ to the solipsism dynamic. I didn’t know it at the time, but this incident helped me piece together how strong hypergamy could be for women. So strong that it could literally rewrite a woman’s personality, with very little hindsight or remorse, and send a good man to the grave, all with properly crafted excuses and moral rationalizations. And what’s more scary is knowing that it could be my wife, or your current LTR who could follow the same path if the circumstance and payoff was better.
Gentlemen, it doesn’t get easier, you have to get BETTER. Depending on her conditions, depending upon your own, hypergamy is the stalking butler in the shadows just waiting for you to slip. Every guy in divorce court has the same story, “I never saw it coming.” Could my wife do the same? Not if I stay on top of my Game. I’d like to think Mrs. Tomassi’s commitment to me is iron clad, but I’d be a fool to think it’s unconditional. In fact it’s just this knowledge that inspires me to keep my edge, personally, professionally, creatively, psychologically,..etc. I would expect a wife, your ‘faithful’ LTR, your GF to drop your ass at the call of the next highest bidder.
 

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expos said:
Yes. I take it you saw that photo? I'm in the mid 160's right now. I run maybe 20 miles a week now but lift three times a week. Track and road races are on the back burner for awhile. I look a little better...but still thin...but it hasn't hurt my game very much. I have found a new girl who seems very into me but I don't think I'm out of the fog yet.

At my very worst (when I was depressed over my wife and missing her a lot, I was still training hard but not eating because I was so HURT) I actually reached 149 lbs. My parents basically had an intervention with me and said YOU ARE FALLING APART.

I don't know how the hell I was competing during the indoor track season or how I DIDN'T break no contact. It was nothing short of a miracle.

There were nights when I would be on the track by myself at 8pm after work, finish the workout, and sit on the track and cry. It was really really bad.
I'm curious. If you had a crystal ball, and new your future was going to be like this with your wife, would you have dumped her before you got married (i.e. ditch her before engagement), or do are you, as a net, still happy you got this experience in your life, as opposed to not having it?

I dumped my gf because I had that crystal ball. It left a hole in my gut because I really loved her and she loved me too...but I had this uneasy feeling and did research on her past. Sometimes I ask myself, what if? Then I read stuff like this and some of the potential probability trees of where this could have gone do not look very good.

Do you have advice to people thinking of getting married? If there is something you could have done differently? Did you pick up red flags when you were dating her?
 

Hullothere

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Oh and while the post may not have much to do with your xwife because she may or may not be moving on with some guy. I think it provides some valuable insight into how men and women react to attachment and love. it isn't the same by a long shot. What you are going through is normal. Attachment is what has allowed men to do great things.
 

expos

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Hullothere said:
cool just wondering because I'm a similar build but prob skinner. 6'/150lbs. Trying to bulk up now and was just seeing if you saw any differences!
I just cut down on the excessive cardio and started eating a ton of chicken breasts. I'd thaw them, cook 10 of them in my oven for an hour and just eat that everyday. Eating a ton of oatmeal. I found some protein shakes in bulk and bought those. Going out to the bar 2-3 nights a week with various friends seemed get the weight back up well. I don't look sickly, but still have a ways to go.

Hullothere said:
BTW you should read this post by Rollo, it explains how women are able to get over relationships so easy. Thats why it is not uncommon to see women already in new relationships just a week or two after breaking up with someone they were saying "i love you" too only a few days before.
Thank you. I have read this. My ex-wife told me she seeing someone maybe two months after we divorced. I never found out who it was...never a saw photo...nothing. I'm beginning to think it was a lie to hurt me. But whatever the case, it destroyed me. I was so hurt because we rarely had sex in the later stages of her marriage, and the idea of her jumping so easily into bed with some guy after we split made me absolutely sick to my stomach. I have never felt so much emotional pain in my entire life. I wanted sex so badly from my wife, and she was just depressed so much that it killed her libido. Crazy how that libido kicks in for the new guy, right?

Even though I asked for the split - it still doesn't kill the feelings you have for someone.

Some women do move on quick. Some others, not so much. And old friend of mine has been divorced for two years and still hasn't slept with a guy since hers was finalized. She's had the opportunity but just isn't ready.
 

Hullothere

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it may be her coping mechanism of how to get over the breakup, acting indifferent and trying to hurt you.



expos said:
Hullothere said:
cool just wondering because I'm a similar build but prob skinner. 6'/150lbs. Trying to bulk up now and was just seeing if you saw any differences!
I just cut down on the excessive cardio and started eating a ton of chicken breasts. I'd thaw them, cook 10 of them in my oven for an hour and just eat that everyday. Eating a ton of oatmeal. I found some protein shakes in bulk and bought those. Going out to the bar 2-3 nights a week with various friends seemed get the weight back up well. I don't look sickly, but still have a ways to go.



Thank you. I have read this. My ex-wife told me she seeing someone maybe two months after we divorced. I never found out who it was...never a saw photo...nothing. I'm beginning to think it was a lie to hurt me. But whatever the case, it destroyed me. I was so hurt because we rarely had sex in the later stages of her marriage, and the idea of her jumping so easily into bed with some guy after we split made me absolutely sick to my stomach. I have never felt so much emotional pain in my entire life. I wanted sex so badly from my wife, and she was just depressed so much that it killed her libido. Crazy how that libido kicks in for the new guy, right?

Even though I asked for the split - it still doesn't kill the feelings you have for someone.

Some women do move on quick. Some others, not so much. And old friend of mine has been divorced for two years and still hasn't slept with a guy since hers was finalized. She's had the opportunity but just isn't ready.
 

expos

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corrector said:
I'm curious. If you had a crystal ball, and new your future was going to be like this with your wife, would you have dumped her before you got married (i.e. ditch her before engagement), or do are you, as a net, still happy you got this experience in your life, as opposed to not having it?
This is a really tough call and a good question that I cannot answer. I would have been AFC my whole life if not for this woman. Dealing with the harshness of her has made realize that I will not be pushed around anymore by anyone male or female. I just won't stand for it.

corrector said:
I dumped my gf because I had that crystal ball. It left a hole in my gut because I really loved her and she loved me too...but I had this uneasy feeling and did research on her past. Sometimes I ask myself, what if? Then I read stuff like this and some of the potential probability trees of where this could have gone do not look very good.
There is a lyric that I like "Watch with your heart, run with your gut". Essentially it means to observe and love and allow yourself to be infatuated because it feels so good for your heart, but trust your instincts and run with that decision as it's for the best. You chose right, my friend, trust me.

corrector said:
Do you have advice to people thinking of getting married? If there is something you could have done differently? Did you pick up red flags when you were dating her?
My only advice is to date someone longer than 3-4 years. Fight with them, love them, live with them. See how they react in times of struggle. Watch how they treat family members and friends. Look at past behavior as a reference point for future behavior. Are they happy with themselves if a man isn't their life? If so, this a good sign. If they pass everything, and your family loves her, I'd say it's worth a shot.

My wife failed on almost every level. She fights with almost every member of her family except her mom. She had no real close friends. History of rapid weight gain when things are bad and weight loss when she's doing great. my parents did not like her a year into our marriage.

We actually broke up once before we were engaged. I dumped her because I just wasn't feeling the attraction. The next week she made out with some guy at a bar, but never told me about it. I found this out on my own and dumped her AGAIN...she pleaded and cried and begged for me to take her back and that she was technically "single" when it happened. I took her back but really shouldn't have done it. However, my wife never did cheat on me while married...I'm 100% certain of this. Did sleuthing, nothing came up questionable.

In hindsight, I should have known more about BPD and how to handle this illness more effectively. Apparently, her therapist does a lousy job. I should have the stumbled upon the DJ BIBLE right before marriage so that I could effectively GAME my wife to keep her from slipping and treating me like sh!t and laying down some boundaries. So what is she gets hurt? Alpha fVcks....while Beta bux. She would have respected me a lot more if I did these things but I didn't.

I did love this woman a lot, she took a ton out from me. But I'm better than I was three months ago...but not by much. I'm hopeful.
 

expos

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So we finally talked on the phone. It was cordial and friendly, I ended up calling her office to get the details of what she needed, so we didn't talk about anything relationship-related. It was weird hearing her voice.

In the meantime, I seem to be down.

I had a HB7 over at my place last night. Dinner, movie at my place. We wanted to screw but I didn't have any condoms...but she said she wants to screw on Sunday because she's busy the rest of the week. For some reason, I'm not excited about this girl at all, but she's really into me.

I struggle with this HB7 a little bit because she doesn't seem to match up intellectually to me. In fact, the two of the three of the women I've dated since my divorce just haven't stacked up to my ex in the brains department. The one girl that did, had a LD boyfriend and I got tired of her and basically dropped her.

I find spinning plates to be a little bit of a lonely existence. I sometimes wonder if I'm cut out for it. I mean, I seem to do well and haven't had much problem getting girls interested, but I don't think I feel I'm accomplishing anything. The process leaves me tired.
 

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expos said:
So we finally talked on the phone. It was cordial and friendly, I ended up calling her office to get the details of what she needed, so we didn't talk about anything relationship-related. It was weird hearing her voice.

In the meantime, I seem to be down.

I had a HB7 over at my place last night. Dinner, movie at my place. We wanted to screw but I didn't have any condoms...but she said she wants to screw on Sunday because she's busy the rest of the week. For some reason, I'm not excited about this girl at all, but she's really into me.

I struggle with this HB7 a little bit because she doesn't seem to match up intellectually to me. In fact, the two of the three of the women I've dated since my divorce just haven't stacked up to my ex in the brains department. The one girl that did, had a LD boyfriend and I got tired of her and basically dropped her.

I find spinning plates to be a little bit of a lonely existence. I sometimes wonder if I'm cut out for it. I mean, I seem to do well and haven't had much problem getting girls interested, but I don't think I feel I'm accomplishing anything. The process leaves me tired.
I had similar issues after my divorce.
My ex was a HB9, a professor and 11 years younger.
For a very long time, nobody could compare.

However, it's a process. You eventually find different strengths and beauties in other women, but it takes a while to get there.

Eventually, I came to realize that I had a somewhat crappy marriage to a NPD beauty and have dated women whom I've had way more fun with.

Plates, they're fun, but expensive.
If you are a relationship type, they seem to be effective for women to sense competition and turn up the heat. Then you just pick the best.

Don't get too discouraged expos, this will pass.

SH
 

expos

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So...sex with another woman didn't make me forget the ex. Still a work in progress here...
 

expos

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So the ex and I finally communicated and sorted our financial requests. I called her this morning and left a voice mail - and she immediately hit me back with an email. I had a few things I needed myself and she was jumping through hoops to help me out (calling the bank, sorting out details, hitting me up with a couple rapid fire emails).

I asked about the dog (see other thread in Married man section) and we are both traveling quite a bit in the next few months, so we don't know when we can meet up.

So...no AFC moves on my behalf other than a simple thanks.

I think I caught her at the right time to talk. She had just got back from her older brothers wedding this week (I know this because I am friends with her brother's new wife on Facebook) and she was most likely the only single girl there. (And yes, she was there solo, saw the photos, no new guy made the trip).

And probably the memories of us being married maybe got to her emotionally last weekend. So, it was partly my somewhat evil strategy to re-engage and get her spinning a little.
 

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bradd80 said:
Either way, at this point you need to stop caring about whether or not she is with someone else. She's a woman, she can find someone very easily and very quickly. You need to really restrict your contact with this woman, and make sure to give her as little reason to contact you as you possibly can. The longer you let this back and forth go on, the longer it will take you to forget about her.
^^ This.

Let it go, move on. You're gonna reach for the stars, man! Don't let this woman and the past you have with her slow you down from that...
 

expos

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I also want to add that I told her in one of our exchanges "I don't need to see you - just have a friend drop off the dog."

How I haven't had a total AFC meltdown as of yet, I don't understand. Thank god for this board and what I've learned here otherwise I would be fvcked. This was a woman who has never been dumped, and had past boyfriends grovel and cry on the phone, and show up at her house to ask to take them back. I've separated myself from these clowns because I dumped her and didn't cry for her return.

So I apologize to the SS boards for my incessant AFC behavior on this thread, and like I've said many times here, it's better to whine and cry it out here than show the ex-wife my true colors.
 

expos

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thanks Bradd80, for keeping me honest.
 

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bradd80 said:
...you'll feel like you just made a huge mistake. Kinda like joining the marines. But how do you feel a month after joining the marines? Like a fvcking superstar. This is how you will feel after you keep rejecting her.
That's an excellent analogy, brad.
 

expos

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Man - I feel lousy today and cried pretty much all morning before work. Feel like I would do anything and say anything to get her back. Why am I still hurting like this a year out from the split?

I am in this constant revolving thought that I made a huge mistake by asking to separate. Why do I get feeling that I need to reconcile with her? Is this even fvcking normal?

In the 7 months since it was finalized I have dated three women (one who has a boyfriend), banged one of them after the second date and felt awful afterwards, had one life long friend come out hiding and admit her feelings towards me after she noticed I was divorced but I have no attraction to her at all. I've gone to two different therapists, I've put on 8 pounds of muscle, played in two soccer leagues, made a whole new set of friends, joined a frisbee league, been busy every weekend going to festivals and traveling to see family members

...Still...I can not shake my ex-wife.

In my most AFC moment, I was laying by myself on my porch on a weekend afternoon and missing her greatly. I starting talking out loud to her like she was by my side again, trying to remember what our conversations were like. It was this eerie comfort.

I was talking to a friend of mine Wednesday night, and she said, "Expos, just reach out to her and get it over with. Tell her exactly how you feel."

This simply can't be done if I want to keep this DJ/Alpha mentality going to better myself. If I go to her and do this, she'll blow me a part.

Just had to rant....
 

Alvafe

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is not DJ/Alpha mentality is to keep yourself good about things, you know pretty well if saying anything would help you would have done that already, you just know its done, you jsut don't want to let it go because you like the idea of married till death, could be your parents are still together each bein they first marriage, you jsut hope to ahve what you parents have plus something else to show to you and world you are more then your parents and they raise you right.

forget all that, crying alone if you feel like its ok, just don't tell anyone or show weakness and try to find a common ground with your mind, most of time what I know is keep my mind busy, jsut to not think about it, be i working, playing or jsut anything who make you not stop and start to think about it, just let it go

if you will cave in its better you cry here on this forum then with any woman, you doing well dude just relax, its almost like stockholm sindrome(sp?) you are just free and now want your kidnapper back, that will pass but you need to let it go.
 
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