I Watched My 65 Year Old BP Father Fail a Sh*t Test...

[Money & Muscle]

... and it was blatantly apparent why I had such a hard time with women until I unplugged. It wasn't even really a sh*t test, it was just outright disrespect and he apologized to her for it.

This man, who lovingly raised me, led me so far astray with women that I was a coin toss away from being a 30 year old kissless virgin. I have to admit, I still hold a bit of anger towards him for leading me down this path of inceldom, but it's a little reassuring to know that it wasn't for any lack of caring - it was just his outright ignorance. It was a little relieving to find that my lack of success with women wasn't entirely my fault; that I was handicapped from the start; that I wasn't just some defective 20-something.

Apologies for the small rant.


Dads, do your part and teach your sons the ways of women.
Teach them how to recognize - and pass sh*t tests.
Teach them to talk and flirt with girls regularly, even just for skills maintenance; have them watch you do it.
Teach your sons to lift, and how to eat right.
How to set, chase, and achieve goals.

Don't let your sons grow up and see you as a fat, misguided incel whose married to a post-wall overweight harpy. It's not fun to pity the man you once wanted to be.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Don’t you have a daughter dude?

Yes. This was a story about me (a former 20-year old kissless incel virgin) watching my dad (the man who 'taught me how to deal with women') fail to address a sh*t test where he was being outright disrespected.

The takeaway was not to be like my dad. For fathers to teach their sons how to not end up like I almost did. In other words, not to bluepill their sons.

 

[SW15]

The takeaway was not to be like my dad. For fathers to teach their sons how to not end up like I almost did. In other words, not to bluepill their sons.

Most fathers are blue pilled and do not know any better. While absentee fatherhood is bad, present fathers who are blue pill are not helping their sons either.

When my generations (the Millennials) were coming of age in the 1990s/early 2000s, our Baby Boomer fathers (if present) were blue pilled and setting that example for us. @Money & Muscle has a Boomer father too. Boomers could get away with being blue pilled. Millennials are not able to do that. Both @sangheilios and I have said many times that the typical Boomer male who came of age in the 1960s/1970s would been an incel/borderline incel had he been born in the years of the Millennial generation.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a good topic. My father (who loved us 4 daughters but unapologetically wished at least one of us had been a boy *OR* wanted to keep getting my mom pregnant until a boy arrived - my mother had to literally threaten divorce after my youngest sister was born "You are signing consent for a tubal or you are signing divorce papers, up to you...but I am not going through another pregnancy.....") was a man's man. He signed the papers, grudgingly, for the tubal, but made it expressly clear that he was NOT happy about it (my mother's fourth pregnancy had serious complications and she was nearly 40 at that point and there was Down syndrome in the family which is directly related to maternal age)....

I digress. My father did not tolerate emotional outbursts, pettiness or manipulation. He did not buy gifts or flowers, he did not like socializing unless it was on his terms. He insisted my mother, with her law degree & Federal job at OEO (precursor to the NSA) give up her career and be a full time wife & mother, and that was IT. He was a dictator at home. He went hunting, he went fishing, he expected a hot supper every night and he provided.

My earliest memories, in fact, are all hunting trips with my dad.

If his wife came at him he would simply shut it down by saying "Woman! This is silly nonsense and I am not going to tolerate it." And he would get up, leave the table, leave the room, go out to his shop and tinker.

There was not a placating bone in that man's body and witnessing the occassional interaction like this I learned not to cross him. I learned he appreciated rational behavior. Not blubbering. Logic. And that was that. He was reasonable if approached in the correct manner. Hysterics? He shut down immediately and disengaged until you got ahold of yourself.

He was generally a benevolent dictator but make no mistake he dictated. And compliance was not requested, it was required.

Young men who came to take us on dates would be met by this tall hulk of a man and his crushing handshake. He expected to be looked in the eye. Of course he would most always be polishing a gun or reloading shotgun shells when dates would come pick us up. Our dates tended to bring us home a little early. I think he enjoyed intimidating those poor guys. We used to tease him about it & he'd laugh & shrug.

Respect was something he expected, but his respect had to be earned.

Much of the counsel I relate here is a reflection of what I learned from him.

You cannot tolerate disrespect. That will erode you as a man. How you deal with it may vary but you must not tolerate it.

 

[The Duke]

Advice from the old lady:

This is a good topic. My father (who loved us 4 daughters but unapologetically wished at least one of us had been a boy *OR* wanted to keep getting my mom pregnant until a boy arrived - my mother had to literally threaten divorce after my youngest sister was born "You are signing consent for a tubal or you are signing divorce papers, up to you...but I am not going through another pregnancy.....") was a man's man. He signed the papers, grudgingly, for the tubal, but made it expressly clear that he was NOT happy about it (my mother's fourth pregnancy had serious complications and she was nearly 40 at that point and there was Down syndrome in the family which is directly related to maternal age)....

I digress. My father did not tolerate emotional outbursts, pettiness or manipulation. He did not buy gifts or flowers, he did not like socializing unless it was on his terms. He insisted my mother, with her law degree & Federal job at OEO (precursor to the NSA) give up her career and be a full time wife & mother, and that was IT. He was a dictator at home. He went hunting, he went fishing, he expected a hot supper every night and he provided.

My earliest memories, in fact, are all hunting trips with my dad.

If his wife came at him he would simply shut it down by saying "Woman! This is silly nonsense and I am not going to tolerate it." And he would get up, leave the table, leave the room, go out to his shop and tinker.

There was not a placating bone in that man's body and witnessing the occassional interaction like this I learned not to cross him. I learned he appreciated rational behavior. Not blubbering. Logic. And that was that. He was reasonable if approached in the correct manner. Hysterics? He shut down immediately and disengaged until you got ahold of yourself.

He was generally a benevolent dictator but make no mistake he dictated. And compliance was not requested, it was required.

Young men who came to take us on dates would be met by this tall hulk of a man and his crushing handshake. He expected to be looked in the eye. Of course he would most always be polishing a gun or reloading shotgun shells when dates would come pick us up. Our dates tended to bring us home a little early. I think he enjoyed intimidating those poor guys. We used to tease him about it & he'd laugh & shrug.

Respect was something he expected, but his respect had to be earned.

Much of the counsel I relate here is a reflection of what I learned from him.

You cannot tolerate disrespect. That will erode you as a man. How you deal with it may vary but you must not tolerate it.

I like you even better now! Lol. Your dad is awesome. A lot of that resonates with me.

A house full of women....I'd of ran away.

 

[BeExcellent]

I like you even better now! Lol. Your dad is awesome. A lot of that resonates with me.

A house full of women....I'd of ran away.

God has a sense of humor. If you had a Sunday dress with a sash however nobody tied a more beautiful bow. If you talked during the sermon he'd knuckle thump your noggin too. I miss him. He was my father and a dear friend too. Oh the sidesplitting stories I could tell. RIP Daddy-O.

PS - He LOVED John Wayne. And Ottie Murphy. He thought it was his God given right to channel The Duke at all times. He was built like John Wayne too but great hair & better looking, lol.

 

[manfrombelow]

He was generally a benevolent dictator

I like this term, "benevolent dictator," perfect to describe the ultimate role model a man should strive for.

 

[manfrombelow]

I like you even better now! Lol. Your dad is awesome. A lot of that resonates with me.

A house full of women....I'd of ran away.

Normally in such a house, the mother always dictates everything and the father/husband is only a blurred shadow of himself (a typical matriarchy family, if you will). However, in this case, we see the opposite: A house, albeit "full of women", still governed, managed, fed, provided and led by a true alphamale, and every single one of them female member of such house is submissive and compliant. A patriarchy family at its absolute best.

 

[BeExcellent]

Normally in such a house, the mother always dictates everything and the father/husband is only a blurred shadow of himself (a typical matriarchy family, if you will). However, in this case, we see the opposite: A house, albeit "full of women", still governed, managed, fed, provided and led by a true alphamale, and every single one of them female member of such house is submissive and compliant. A patriarchy family at its absolute best.

Well to be fair things were not always perfect and I (the eldest) was a source of great consternation as a teen. But he led. Always. And he didn't put up with any crap. I cussed him out once. He made me wash my mouth out with soap. Bar soap. Literally. I earned his respect though in time, moreso than my sisters. He would listen when I had something to say. He knew I'd stand up to him if he was out of line (which once in a while he was.) I was very proud of that.

So trust me I know what a real man is. I was raised by one.

 

[manfrombelow]

So trust me I know what a real man is. I was raised by one.

I've never doubted this. That's why you're in this forum (and other women aren't) anyway. Thanks, lady.

 

[Michael Chief]

I'd of ran away.

I know this is going to seem weird... but it's "I'd've"

 

[BeExcellent]

What @Money & Muscle says is important. Raise your sons to be men; raise your daughters to be ladies. My son does not take any crap off me just as my father didn't. If I'm out of line he stands up to me and points it right out. And I respect his 21 year old ass for that.

 

[Money & Muscle]

What @Money & Muscle says is important. Raise your sons to be men; raise your daughters to be ladies. My son does not take any crap off me just as my father didn't. If I'm out of line he stands up to me and points it right out. And I respect his 21 year old ass for that.

Did you have any significant role in this, or was this your his father's doing?

As I was raised in a BP household where my mom was the battleaxe, I'm listening intently to your experiences and trying to calibrate.

 

[manfrombelow]

What @Money & Muscle says is important. Raise your sons to be men; raise your daughters to be ladies. My son does not take any crap off me just as my father didn't. If I'm out of line he stands up to me and points it right out. And I respect his 21 year old ass for that.

Now that you've mentioned it, my clowns of parents raised me to be a clueless ignorant mentally unstable AFC chump who's basically an idiot without knowing what and what not to say/do/behave in terms of all social interactions with people, women included.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Now that you've mentioned it, my clowns of parents raised me to be a clueless ignorant mentally unstable AFC chump who's basically an idiot without knowing what and what not to say/do/behave in terms of all social interactions with people, women included.

Want to start a support group?

 

[SW15]

This man, who lovingly raised me, led me so far astray with women that I was a coin toss away from being a 30 year old kissless virgin. I have to admit, I still hold a bit of anger towards him for leading me down this path of inceldom, but it's a little reassuring to know that it wasn't for any lack of caring - it was just his outright ignorance. It was a little relieving to find that my lack of success with women wasn't entirely my fault; that I was handicapped from the start; that I wasn't just some defective 20-something.

Boomer men like the father of @Money & Muscle became young adults in the ever changing years of the late 1960s and 1970s. It was a changing era of gender and sexuality norms. Boomer men who were betas/AFC's didn't pay as a high of a price from Boomer women for what would be called AFC/beta type behavior. In raising sons, Boomer men who were present in their lives of their sons collectively did a poor job prepping their sons for the mating environment of 2000 and beyond. The wisdom that Boomer men used to older to attract mates was outdated by the time their Millennial sons entered the sexual marketplace circa the year 2000.

Dads, do your part and teach your sons the ways of women.
Teach them how to recognize - and pass sh*t tests.
Teach them to talk and flirt with girls regularly, even just for skills maintenance; have them watch you do it.
Teach your sons to lift, and how to eat right.
How to set, chase, and achieve goals.

Don't let your sons grow up and see you as a fat, misguided incel whose married to a post-wall overweight harpy. It's not fun to pity the man you once wanted to be.

When Boomer women shiit tested Boomer men, they were less vicious in penalizing Boomer men for failing those shiit tests. Even when Boomer men got divorced in the 1980s and 1990s (common), they didn't have that much difficulty in finding another mate. Incel status didn't become common until the early Millennials reached sexual maturity in the early 2000s. Very few Boomers ever faced the consequences of being incel.

 

[Bokanovsky]

@BeExcellent, have you ever considered running for political office? Serious question. You have a remarkable talent for turning every discussion into a conversation about yourself.

 

[BeExcellent]

Did you have any significant role in this, or was this your his father's doing?

As I was raised in a BP household where my mom was the battleaxe, I'm listening intently to your experiences and trying to calibrate.

Yes I had a substantial role. I got my son around my father and people who knew my father alot. Often my dad would drop by and have dinner because for a number of years when my kids were little we lived in the same neighborhood as my dad. My ex husband's late father was an Air Force fighter pilot whose widow revered him because he was a man much like my dad. So both grandfathers were the right example, but my ex husband's father died suddenly and unexpectedly when my ex husband was 12. So he lost his father tragically and at a critical time. His mother mever remarried. Literal alpha widow.

You see my ex husband, who is a loving father but a poor example of what a man should be in life (he is depressed, lazy, sloppy, unambitious and drinks way too much) had lost his business and was a stay at home father for 10 years, and then started another business, which he ddn't have the discipline to run, and THAT failed.

Meanwhile I'm carrying our family financially and I divorced my husband for abdicating his leadership role as a man (and I laid out for him exactly why I was going to divorce him if things did not change & then I gave him 5 years to correct course, which he never did.)

But I was keenly aware that my son (and daughters too) need a good example of what a real man is and how a real man needs to be in life.

Along the way a very lucky break happened. My son was a 5th grader the spring we divorced. My ex husband sold his foundering buisness 2 months later and needed a job, since not working was no longer an option. We lived in a town with an all boys military prep school. They took boys from 6th to 12th grade and my ex husband and I knew various people who worked there.

One of the vets over there suggested my ex husband work over there. He did. The perk of that was my son could attend as a day student as an employee's kid, foregoing the 50K per year tuition. So from 6th grade through high school graduation my son went to school there. There were many solid men on staff at that school, it was run by decorated high ranking veterans who were akin to my ex hubands father and there were former high ranking NCOs on staff too. There was also a leadership hierarchy among the cadets, there was an environment of excellence and achievement and there were young men there from successful families from around the world who expected great things from their sons.

That school experience molded my son into the man he has become. The school staff was populated by the right kind of male role models. So hats off to my ex husband for getting on over there (he still works there) and has helped guide other young men to develop from his job as a residential officer running one of the dorms - he knows he dropped the ball as a man and he uses himself as an exsmple of how NOT to turn out in life which takes a great deal of humility.

Along the way I have moldeled work ethic & character and discipline and even the divorce helped my children because my kids understand why I divorced their father.

I relate my father's wisdom to my children where applicable but I understand I am not a man too.

 

[The Duke]

I know this is going to seem weird... but it's "I'd've"

Thank you. I've been doing it wrong all of these years. My life is complete now!

 

[BeExcellent]

@BeExcellent, have you ever considered running for political office? Serious question. You have a remarkable talent for turning every discussion into a conversation about yourself.

The answer is yes, but its not something that interests me because I'd rather network and influence outside the system.

Please understand something. I am a bit of a curiosity. Here and elsewhere. I am an outlier. People ask me questions, at times very pointed questions and people try and unseat my confidence, insinuate and insult at times because they are trying to correlate their belief system with things that at times don't agree with the belief system. They are seeking to reconcile things that *seem* incongruent.

I relate stories that might be useful to someone. You are welcome to put me on ignore.

That's OK.

This is a male space and boys will be boys; men will be men and there are boys here trying to develop into men. I get that and respect that. And I get alot of shade at times. That's cool.