I posted in OYS this week and would like some other perspectives

[Money & Muscle]

I'm getting the frequency of sex that I want, for the most part anyways... it's hard to f*ck every day, even though I want to. I don't really get turned down anymore, but I'm not getting the enthusiasm I want.

Maybe I'm looking for enthusiasm that simply doesn't exist in women, or maybe I'm not desirable enough to my wife to elicit that kind of response. I don't know.

I locked eyes with these two 18-20 year old baddies at the grocery store the other day. I saw something in their eyes that I haven't seen coming from my wife's eyes in a very long time - if ever. In that very moment, I no longer felt there was any good reason to be monogamous with my wife anymore. I haven't been getting the genuine desire I want and crave, I've been getting obligated compliance with occasional enthusiasm.

And here I find myself in a prison if my own making. Would I blow up my marriage to go chase genuine desire? Yes. Would I be willing to not see my daughter every day to do that? Am i willing to taint the image of a marriageable man that I've been trying to build for my daughter? I don't know.

I need a partner who can keep up with me physically and sexually, and I need someone who can make my life easier. I'm not getting that, and I don't know how to navigate my feelings about what's best for my daughter, and what's best for me.

I don't even know if what I'm looking for exists because I've never been with another woman, and now I'm in this position of looking, acting, and being high value. I don't know if I can lead my wife to this point, or if my wife can even be led to this point. The stakes are high, my experience is low, and I don't really know what to do. At least not yet.

Has anyone else found themselves in this position?

 

[Dr.Suave]

Grass always seems greener but its not always the case.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Open marriage?

 

[Money & Muscle]

Open marriage?

Only if it's a one-sided monogamy. Doubtful the wife would be on board.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I don't even know if what I'm looking for exists

It doesn't. In any long-term relationship, "genuine desire" will eventually be replaced with "obligated compliance". There's a reason why they call it martial duties. It can take longer for some relationships to progress to that stage (if the two of you are highly sexually compatible and have matching libidos) but it is still an inevitability.

It's like with anything else in life: buying a new car, boat, house, etc. No matter how excited you may be in the beginning, the excitement will eventually wear off.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

No matter how excited you may be in the beginning, the excitement will eventually wear off.

I don't know, I still enjoy my 1998 R1100GS motorcycle. Even after test-riding modern motorcycles.

Keeping your women exciting is possible, but many married women don't put much effort in keeping the excitement in their marriage.

Instead they look for backdoor men like moi.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

I'm getting the frequency of sex that I want, for the most part anyways... it's hard to f*ck every day, even though I want to. I don't really get turned down anymore, but I'm not getting the enthusiasm I want.

Maybe I'm looking for enthusiasm that simply doesn't exist in women, or maybe I'm not desirable enough to my wife to elicit that kind of response. I don't know.

I locked eyes with these two 18-20 year old baddies at the grocery store the other day. I saw something in their eyes that I haven't seen coming from my wife's eyes in a very long time - if ever. In that very moment, I no longer felt there was any good reason to be monogamous with my wife anymore. I haven't been getting the genuine desire I want and crave, I've been getting obligated compliance with occasional enthusiasm.

And here I find myself in a prison if my own making. Would I blow up my marriage to go chase genuine desire? Yes. Would I be willing to not see my daughter every day to do that? Am i willing to taint the image of a marriageable man that I've been trying to build for my daughter? I don't know.

I need a partner who can keep up with me physically and sexually, and I need someone who can make my life easier. I'm not getting that, and I don't know how to navigate my feelings about what's best for my daughter, and what's best for me.

I don't even know if what I'm looking for exists because I've never been with another woman, and now I'm in this position of looking, acting, and being high value. I don't know if I can lead my wife to this point, or if my wife can even be led to this point. The stakes are high, my experience is low, and I don't really know what to do. At least not yet.

Has anyone else found themselves in this position?

The only you need and you've always wanted is to fvck another woman bro, ypur posts say it all. You gotta be honest with yourself first, I won't tell you what to do, only you know, but of that's what you want and you wanna scratch that itch, do what you gotta do without guilt or remorse, take care of your happiness first.

If it were me, before nuking that marriage, I would take it out of the system and then see what's up.

"We've always had the keys to our own prisons, but we are scared $hitless to use them" - Rollo

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Did you ever talk with your wife about this? About your desires? Maybe she's into swinging?

 

[Money & Muscle]

Did you ever talk with your wife about this? About your desires? Maybe she's into swinging?

I've told her what I want from her, which led to a much more active sex life - but desire only mildly increased. She's aware that I want threesomes - I've told her as much, a few times actually. Shes gone back and forth on it a bit... finds it more fun in fantasy than I think she does in reality.

I haven't told her that I don't know if she can give me what I want. I have not said this to her because I know what I want, but I don't know if I'm willing to pay for it.

 

[Ricky]

I was kind of lucky to sow alot of wild oats before marriage

It didnt always seem lucky since the drama filled party girls always became a headache and i wasnt sure id ever meet a woman worth dealing with for a long term relationship

my wife seemed to be and was the best compromise. Hot and intelligent and sex was good but not as wild as the party girls.

relationship was great for over 14 years, i really had the power compared to all the ***** whipped unhappy friends and family i knew.

if i were you and i was looking to sample, find a way to do so without blowing up your marriage

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Open marriage?

Good luck with that. Never works.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I can tell you that your desire to fvck other women(did I read that correctly in that your wife is the only women you have been with?) will only increase as you get older because you will continue to wonder what you have been missing out on and to try and get some of your unfulfilled needs/desires filled.

The most important thing to ensure is no matter what your decision is regarding your marriage that you don't let it negatively effect the relationship with your daughter.
She needs you and hasn't done anything wrong in this situation.

 

[Money & Muscle]

did I read that correctly in that your wife is the only women you have been with?

Yes/No. Of course I want to bed other women - what dude doesn't? But I'm not specifically looking for sex outside of marriage, I just want the kind of desire where it doesn't feel like obligated (and occasionally somewhat enthusiastic) compliance.
Yes, i married my first. I was embarrassed of this for a long time but I just gotta own it.

The most important thing to ensure is no matter what your decision is regarding your marriage that you don't let it negatively effect the relationship with your daughter.
She needs you and hasn't done anything wrong in this situation.

I know. This is what I'm struggling with the most. If I didn't have a kid, I'd probaby just opt for a divorce, but 1) I don't want to not see my daughter daily, 2) I don't want this to hurt her, and 3) I fundamentally hate the idea of her looking to another man to be a father figure so long as I'm alive.

So I'm stuck where I feel I have to choose between what's "right" for me, and what's right for my daughter... and I'm not coping with it well.

Ideally, my wife would just step up her game. I think she wants to, but I don't think she wants to put in the effort to (if that makes any sense).

 

[The Duke]

@Money & Muscle

I've read your post several times. Thought about it a lot today.

Here are a few things that came to mind:

-First thing I'd do is have a deep discussion with my wife. Chances are if you feel a lack of enthusiasm/passion, she does too. Women have really good relationship awareness. Getting her to be honest about it will be the challenge. If there is a glimmer of hope, be patient. If there was passion before, there can be passion again. A lot of time life gets in the way, kids/work take priority, we stop dating each other, etc. If you want the fire to burn bright and warm, you must constantly tend to it(try it sometime). Take a vacation with just you and her and see if you can reignite some passion. The pain/damage if you cheat(and you will get caught) is far far worse than having this conversation with your wife.

-Keeping the passion/enthusiasm going strong in a relationship is a lot like keeping the passion/enthusiasm going at the gym. If you are in a dedicated work out program, you get in a routine. That routine eventually gets lame, you don't work as hard as you should, and you don't see the results you once did. Its up to you to evaluate and make changes so you can be successful again.

-I've been married, had multiple one night stands, two threesomes, lots of short term relationships, a few medium term, and 2 live in long term girlfriends. I've done it all but the swinger thing. I've fuhked 75 women and had an absolute fuhking great time, minus those 2 std's! I tell you not to brag, I tell you because I was the guy that all other male friends lived vicariously thru and NONE of that schitt matters except for the 2 long term girls and my exwife. It was all lust, excitement, ego, drama, and cheap. Careful what you wish for. There is a flip side to it. We all want what we don't have. Out of those 75 women, there were less than 5 that were wife material. Every thing @Ricky mentioned above is the absolute truth. So much wisdom there.

I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that most women aren't worth a fuhk, and I love women. My gut tells me your wife checks all the boxes except for whats not right in the bedroom. Get the reason why out in the open, and see what can be done to fix it. Remember men solve problems by actually fixing them, women solve problems just by talking. The first few things she mentions probably won't be what the actual problem is, it will come after.

-Make a list of the pro's and con's of your situation.

-I've never had a lack of sexual desire from a woman. I've been told by all of my LTR's that I am hard to please, and they feel they are never good enough. Its not that I put them down, its that I have high expectations. It puts the woman in a position of pleasing the man so that sexual desire stays strong. Don't let them get too comfortable. You also have to be a good lover. Don't expect passion in the bedroom if you are selfish.

-Are you the man you should be? Are you the same or a better man than when you decided to marry her?

-Is it really worth throwing away your marriage for lust? Maybe so. But, those girls that gave you the look the other day, that doesn't mean schitt. I know you realize this but reality checks are good for all of us. Only 304's and crazy girls do that. Its all lust. Its amplified for a man with little experience that isn't happy at home. Guys like @Ricky and I have been there, done that, and been burnt and can spot that in an instant. @RangerMIke is another good one with lots of experience.

-I've had a few friends that went the swinger route to try and reignite passion in their marriages. They all ended up divorced.

-The kind of girl that is ok with a threesome/swinging doesn't love her man enough.

There's a great movie called Lonesome Dove. Its about a bunch of cowboys that steal cattle from Mexico and drive them to Montana. Its about triumph, tragedy, struggle, adventure, masculinity, and women that plays out along the trail. Robert Duvall who plays Gus has two women in the movie he likes. One is a saloon wh0re named Lori. She's young, beautiful, submissive, needy, charming, and has those bedroom eyes. The other girl Gus likes is Clara. Clara is conservative, nice looking, a little independent, ran the farm/ranch after her husband died, not as exciting in bed, raised her own family, has good virtues, supportive. Guess which one Gus really wanted in his old age....he had experienced all the crazy, fun times, drama, and hot sex that come with those girls that are super stars in the bedroom and its not what he wanted.

A never ending supply of fine looking, wild bedroom toys will never trump a solid-pretty girl that supports you and loves you that might not be as exciting in the bedroom.

Just food for thought. I wish you the best in whatever that may be.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I've told her what I want from her, which led to a much more active sex life - but desire only mildly increased. She's aware that I want threesomes - I've told her as much, a few times actually. Shes gone back and forth on it a bit... finds it more fun in fantasy than I think she does in reality.

I haven't told her that I don't know if she can give me what I want. I have not said this to her because I know what I want, but I don't know if I'm willing to pay for it.

At the end of the day, the only way to get someone to do what you want them to do is by making THEM want to do it.

What are you doing to ensure that SHE WANTS to give you what you want?

When is the last time you went on a date with her? Gave her a neck and shoulder massage? Cooked dinner with her?

Part of the problem when in long term relationships is that it becomes routine and monotonous and people stop making the efforts that they did while they were dating because they don't feel the need to anymore.

Except that's what keeps realtionships going strong...the work isn't done once you are in a relationship, it's just beginning. It almost seems like you want everything from her but you don't want to put any work into the relationship to ensure you get it, you just want to get it for free.

That's not the way it works. Not with her or with any other person you will be in a relationship with.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

I'm getting the frequency of sex that I want, for the most part anyways... it's hard to f*ck every day, even though I want to. I don't really get turned down anymore, but I'm not getting the enthusiasm I want.

Maybe I'm looking for enthusiasm that simply doesn't exist in women, or maybe I'm not desirable enough to my wife to elicit that kind of response. I don't know.

I locked eyes with these two 18-20 year old baddies at the grocery store the other day. I saw something in their eyes that I haven't seen coming from my wife's eyes in a very long time - if ever. In that very moment, I no longer felt there was any good reason to be monogamous with my wife anymore. I haven't been getting the genuine desire I want and crave, I've been getting obligated compliance with occasional enthusiasm.

And here I find myself in a prison if my own making. Would I blow up my marriage to go chase genuine desire? Yes. Would I be willing to not see my daughter every day to do that? Am i willing to taint the image of a marriageable man that I've been trying to build for my daughter? I don't know.

I need a partner who can keep up with me physically and sexually, and I need someone who can make my life easier. I'm not getting that, and I don't know how to navigate my feelings about what's best for my daughter, and what's best for me.

I don't even know if what I'm looking for exists because I've never been with another woman, and now I'm in this position of looking, acting, and being high value. I don't know if I can lead my wife to this point, or if my wife can even be led to this point. The stakes are high, my experience is low, and I don't really know what to do. At least not yet.

Has anyone else found themselves in this position?

I keep saying this on here...... every pvssy gets old after you fvcked her 200 times.

I get it, at some point a man needs to fvck a different flavour...... i am there too, been there in every ltr after a couple of years.

If you are looking for genuine desire, have a discrete sidepiece or ONS and be aware that it wont last.

NO pvssy in these days is worth not seeing your kid every day. I dont know how old your kid is, but if shiat hits the fan and your wife decides to cut you out of your daughters life, she can pull it off. If that happens your conscience better be clean or you might end up as the regretful old men wishing for his kid to reach out.

Your wife seems reasonable enough. If you get sex on demand, its more then most guys get in life.

Make peace with the status quo at least until your kid is old enough to make her own decisions and cant be influenced/overruled by her mother.

If you cheat, be smart about it and if she suspects you dont confess anything unless she actually catches you in the act. As long as you are high enough value to them, most women will work their mind around it if you arent stupid and dont embarrass them openly.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

If you cheat, be smart about it

Don't leave a paper trail, no photos, no togethers in public places, each using own transport, don't become regulars anywhere, never use the same motel/hotel twice.

If she wonders why all the subterfuge is needed, tell her you've been targeted so you cannot have a routine or show around in public too much. Especially with her, as you don't want to paint a target on her back as well.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Thanks for all the conversation guys, it helps.

I'm going through it at the moment. My wife was there for me when I was a broke nobody and didn't look like this. Now I make 10x my former income and look like this, and my wife is still on level 1 like she was when we married.

She's a SAHM who barely cleans, doesn't cook, puts absolute minimal effort into her looks - if any, diet and excercise are both subpar (she has 10-15lbs to lose), and can't stick to a budget unless I watch over her spending like I would a child with a credit card.
She's loyal (so far as I know) and reasonably respectful, and puts out 80% of the time that I want (just lacking in enthusiasm), and I'd give her a 7-8/10 on being a mother.

I know it isn't fair of me to ask more of her, but I need it. Even if the sex doesn't improve, I need the rest of it to step the hell up.

 

[Money & Muscle]

@Money & Muscle

I've read your post several times. Thought about it a lot today.

Here are a few things that came to mind:

-First thing I'd do is have a deep discussion with my wife. Chances are if you feel a lack of enthusiasm/passion, she does too. Women have really good relationship awareness. Getting her to be honest about it will be the challenge. If there is a glimmer of hope, be patient. If there was passion before, there can be passion again. A lot of time life gets in the way, kids/work take priority, we stop dating each other, etc. If you want the fire to burn bright and warm, you must constantly tend to it(try it sometime). Take a vacation with just you and her and see if you can reignite some passion. The pain/damage if you cheat(and you will get caught) is far far worse than having this conversation with your wife.

-Keeping the passion/enthusiasm going strong in a relationship is a lot like keeping the passion/enthusiasm going at the gym. If you are in a dedicated work out program, you get in a routine. That routine eventually gets lame, you don't work as hard as you should, and you don't see the results you once did. Its up to you to evaluate and make changes so you can be successful again.

-I've been married, had multiple one night stands, two threesomes, lots of short term relationships, a few medium term, and 2 live in long term girlfriends. I've done it all but the swinger thing. I've fuhked 75 women and had an absolute fuhking great time, minus those 2 std's! I tell you not to brag, I tell you because I was the guy that all other male friends lived vicariously thru and NONE of that schitt matters except for the 2 long term girls and my exwife. It was all lust, excitement, ego, drama, and cheap. Careful what you wish for. There is a flip side to it. We all want what we don't have. Out of those 75 women, there were less than 5 that were wife material. Every thing @Ricky mentioned above is the absolute truth. So much wisdom there.

I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that most women aren't worth a fuhk, and I love women. My gut tells me your wife checks all the boxes except for whats not right in the bedroom. Get the reason why out in the open, and see what can be done to fix it. Remember men solve problems by actually fixing them, women solve problems just by talking. The first few things she mentions probably won't be what the actual problem is, it will come after.

-Make a list of the pro's and con's of your situation.

-I've never had a lack of sexual desire from a woman. I've been told by all of my LTR's that I am hard to please, and they feel they are never good enough. Its not that I put them down, its that I have high expectations. It puts the woman in a position of pleasing the man so that sexual desire stays strong. Don't let them get too comfortable. You also have to be a good lover. Don't expect passion in the bedroom if you are selfish.

-Are you the man you should be? Are you the same or a better man than when you decided to marry her?

-Is it really worth throwing away your marriage for lust? Maybe so. But, those girls that gave you the look the other day, that doesn't mean schitt. I know you realize this but reality checks are good for all of us. Only 304's and crazy girls do that. Its all lust. Its amplified for a man with little experience that isn't happy at home. Guys like @Ricky and I have been there, done that, and been burnt and can spot that in an instant. @RangerMIke is another good one with lots of experience.

-I've had a few friends that went the swinger route to try and reignite passion in their marriages. They all ended up divorced.

-The kind of girl that is ok with a threesome/swinging doesn't love her man enough.

There's a great movie called Lonesome Dove. Its about a bunch of cowboys that steal cattle from Mexico and drive them to Montana. Its about triumph, tragedy, struggle, adventure, masculinity, and women that plays out along the trail. Robert Duvall who plays Gus has two women in the movie he likes. One is a saloon wh0re named Lori. She's young, beautiful, submissive, needy, charming, and has those bedroom eyes. The other girl Gus likes is Clara. Clara is conservative, nice looking, a little independent, ran the farm/ranch after her husband died, not as exciting in bed, raised her own family, has good virtues, supportive. Guess which one Gus really wanted in his old age....he had experienced all the crazy, fun times, drama, and hot sex that come with those girls that are super stars in the bedroom and its not what he wanted.

A never ending supply of fine looking, wild bedroom toys will never trump a solid-pretty girl that supports you and loves you that might not be as exciting in the bedroom.

Just food for thought. I wish you the best in whatever that may be.

This is an incredibly well thought out reply and theres much to unpack here before I can give a half decent response. All I can say is "thank you". I have read this over twice now and need a few more passes to let it all sink in.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

I know it isn't fair of me to ask more of her, but I need it. Even if the sex doesn't improve, I need the rest of it to step the hell up.

Asides from the above suggested "talking her into desire and passion", (which i think one cant, at least not for lasting impact, its like trying to talk someone into sports or to stop doing drugs) ....

did you ever try some dread game/competition anxiety?