Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

I finally dated someone new...

Mr.Positive

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GtarPlayr73 said:
Moveup, i'm not sure i disagree with you, but could you explain why you think it was creepy for me to comp her on her feet? Was it because it came off as random flattery? Between you and me, I really meant it and i wanted her to feel good by the compliment. How can such motives be "creepy"?
It's creepy if she's uncomfortable and has a b!tchshield you are trying to penetrate. Which is really total BS, because if she was relaxed and confortable you can pretty much say anything without being creepy.

Basically, if she has high IL, she will look for reasons why you are a great guy. You are the great guy who complimented her on her feet. She will feel wonderful. If she has low IL, you have some weird foot fetish and are creepy.

The whole "creepy" guy thing is for woman who have low IL to begin with.
 

blueguy

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lol... she said that so you'd think she was an awful person so you'd leave her alone.

Stop listening to what women say.. at this point it is just going to confuse you.

Listen to us.

It's over.

Emailing her was a very bad idea. Just reconfirmed to her that you are AFC. Dug yourself deeper.

On the next date, don't sweat it. Here's a better tip: be so unattached to the outcome to the point where you don't even feel the need to post here in lengthy detail about everything.

It is no coincidence that the girls you find yourself not completely wanting... want you.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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GtarPlayr73 said:
.... She wrote back and practically scolded me for even thinking i had done anything wrong and then she went into detail about how SHE is a notorious, obsessive cheapskate who always has her friends rolling their eyes in disgust. She said who i am is a good thing and to just go with it. Lastly, she advised me to never go into debt for a woman and that a good woman would never lead me to debt....
Dayum... She's DJing yo' ass!!! :up:
 

blueguy

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Yea... she is definitely leaps and bounds beyond his game... Talk about manipulation. LOL.
 

##17

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GtarPlayr73 said:
Hey guys, it's been a while since my last post. I am now settled into a new apartment and am enjoying town life. I had THE falling-out with the landlady's daughter last week when i told her i was going to date other women. Boy, she did not like that and proceeded to unload on me, saying i was very selfish, had zero communication skills, and was "kind of a schmuck". Some friend, after almost a year, but no surprise. When i complained about the lack of sex and all the ambiguity, she said she felt i was too sexually demanding and it never seemed like i wanted to be around her. I told her that i never felt wanted by her. Her boy-toy finally grows a pair, asserts himself, and she insults him. She suggested we take time off and she would talk to me at some later point. I agreed. Haven't heard from her in almost a week.

So i joined Match.com over a month ago. Contacted a 35 year old match and we met up last Thursday at a local Thai restaurant. She was actually better looking than her photos and taller too. We seemed to hit it off great and conversation flowed. She was all smiles and excited to hear all about me and my family. We were the last customers in the place when they started to close at 9:40. She said she had a great time and asked me if i wanted to meet again. I said, yes, i did and suggested sometime during the weekend. We agreed on Saturday afternoon. She emailed me the next day, saying what a great time she had. I replied in kind and we continued to email and plan the afternoon.

Yesterday, i was late leaving for her place and got there 15 minutes late (i called her and told her i would be late). She said it was no problem, but i thought it had to go in her mental checklist as a strike. Got there and she was a bit distant compared to Thursday night. Friendly, but still cool, somehow. She gave me the tour of her apartment and then we made plans for the Boston Aquarium. She drove us to her workplace's garage. (She works as a web designer for a major publisher. I estimate she makes $60 - $70K). We then walked across Boston to the Aquarium. As we talked, she revealed she never watches movies at home (something i certainly do) and that she works even at home. She is an extrovert and i'm an introvert, so it was already a strained match. She paid for our IMAX movie tickets and said i could cover the Aquarium tickets. When we got out of the movie, we discovered that the Aquarium tickets were significantly more expensive than we anticipated and we decided to head to the North End where she had reserved a table in an Italian restaurant. More talking, a stop at a cafe - where i covered our drinks. Convo in the cafe was lackluster. I complimented her on her beautiful feet. She had just had a pedicure. When we got to the restaurant, it was immediately clear from the decor and setting that it was going to be expensive. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem as i welcome fine Italian food in Boston's North End on a date, but i have just moved into a new apartment and money is tight at the moment. We went dutch on the first date and i planned the same, of course. I ordered a beer instead of wine (much cheaper) and i ordered the least expensive entree ($18). She ordered a glass of wine and a $25 entree. Convo picked up a bit. We talked about our families and personalities. She tried to split the check, even though she bought a more expensive entree and wine. I kindly informed her that i always itemize the tab and pay for what i order. She said no prob and still paid $60 out of an $83 tab. I protested that she was paying a bit too much and she laughed it off and told me not to worry, she does care, she does it all the time. We then walked back to her car, talking the whole way. The convo was chit-chatty but not scintilating. I had kinoed her here and there the whole day. She NEVER kinoed me back, nor did i ever pick up any vibes that she wanted me.

We drove back to her place and when we got inside, it was quite hot. I was sweating and it was uncomfortable. She made no effort to arrange for us to "get close", like, say sitting on a couch. Instead, she sat me down at her dining table to review the photos we took during the day on her laptop. She then asked to see my photos of Italy (which i had brought with me) and she looked through them at a fairly rapid pace and didn't ask me any questions about them. After she was done, she showed me prints of photos she took of Boston and Italy. When i was through with those, she looked around and said she didn’t want to seem like she was kicking me out, but she was really tired. The time was 9:05...I said I understood and gathered my things. She walked me out to her porch, thanked me for a great time. It was totally clear that she had decided at some point that she was all set with me and had done the bare minimum to not look completely disinterested before rushing me out the door.

On the drive home, I concluded that we were done and i expected a polite rejection email the next morning. Sure enough, that's exactly what i got in my inbox this morning. She said we were total opposites and our quirks would drive each other crazy. I replied that i agreed and was glad she and i were on the same wavelength.

So, onto the next one. I do believe we were incompatible as she is extroverted and i am introverted. Totally different mindsets, energy levels, lifestyles. I also think she wasn't happy that i didn't let her get away with splitting the tab after she ordered more than me. I could be mistaken, but she was a bit less rosey about me after that. What's more, she protested when i observed that we were complete opposites earlier in the day. Now she totally agrees? Only after she saw i wasn't going to take unfair check-splitting. I'm proud of myself for that.

Onto the next one. I am no longer going to even consider dating an extrovert. Opposites may attract, but they have nothing to offer once the stars clear from one's eyes.

This is how I see it...

(1) You didnt take charge. She picked the restaurant AND she drove.

(2) You came across as cheap. I'm all for NOT buying girls things when you first meet, but she drove AND bought you IMAX tickets. She already passed a test of sorts. You couldn't pay an extra 10 bucks on top of your share of dinner?

Did you at least pay her the going rate of 45 cents/mile for driving?

(3) Women are emotional creatures. No better way to kill a romantic mood than by being 'logical'. And there is nothing more 'logical' than calculating your share of the bill.
 

Latinoman

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##17 said:
This is how I see it...

(1) You didnt take charge. She picked the restaurant AND she drove.

(2) You came across as cheap. I'm all for NOT buying girls things when you first meet, but she drove AND bought you IMAX tickets. She already passed a test of sorts. You couldn't pay an extra 10 bucks on top of your share of dinner?

Did you at least pay her the going rate of 45 cents/mile for driving?

(3) Women are emotional creatures. No better way to kill a romantic mood than by being 'logical'. And there is nothing more 'logical' than calculating your share of the bill.
I agree.

The advantage that you and I have is that we are very good at math for obvious reasons. A bill comes to the table and looking at the total, I already know if the total amount makes sense without having to "study" the bill. I have corrected mistakes made by the server in the past...impressing my date ("Hmmmm...this amount does not make sense...okay, let me see...here, they charged us for two glasses of wine that we did not drink"). And coming with the tip is literally automatic, even if it is what many people consider "odd" percentages such as 15% or 25%.

Being good with numbers is a wonderful thing. LOL.
 

Latinoman

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Nighthawk said:
This will happen if you do dinner dates.
I personally don't do "dinner dates" (unless I was cooking in my home or hers) without first having had sex with her or having kissed her or having some level of intimacy going on.

It is amazing how many men go to Match.com and meet 6-8 women per month and take them ALL to dinner dates. That's a LOT of money to spend.
 

##17

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GtarPlayr73 said:
Well, before anyone here could say yea or nay to the idea, i emailed her and owned up to not splitting the tab as a faux pas. I know, i know. AFC move. Whatever. I felt i HAD to, regardless of whether it was effective or not. I wanted her to know that i "knew" and wasn't just blindly ignorant to my own mistakes. She wrote back and practically scolded me for even thinking i had done anything wrong and then she went into detail about how SHE is a notorious, obsessive cheapskate who always has her friends rolling their eyes in disgust. She said who i am is a good thing and to just go with it. Lastly, she advised me to never go into debt for a woman and that a good woman would never lead me to debt.

As much as i would have preferred to not admit that i emailed her, i had to mention it because i want your take on her reply as it runs completely counter to almost all of the opinions here. Either she is telling the truth or she is being utterly fake and saying whatever she thinks i want to hear to get me to go away.

Moveup, i'm not sure i disagree with you, but could you explain why you think it was creepy for me to comp her on her feet? Was it because it came off as random flattery? Between you and me, I really meant it and i wanted her to feel good by the compliment. How can such motives be "creepy"? Would she not appreciate such an observation? Are men not allowed to express appreciation? Must the armor of indifference be so total? Where does honesty come in?

One more thing, the weather on Saturday was the hottest and most humid day in recent memory. We were both in the heat's grip all day long and we were well exhausted and yawning when the IMAX movie finished. So, i think we were both not on the top of our game. I remembered thinking about how tired and "out of it" i was and how my low energy level had to be affecting my ability to be lively and exciting. It had to be similar for her too.
You learned your lessons about not taking control and sounding anal...

LOL...if I really wanted to see her again, I might have come back with "I guess we really do have a lot in common after all! Seriously, we had fun the first time, we'll have a blast again.."

I know I'm going to get blasted here for suggesting that, but hey, what do you have to lose? She did write you back and she qualified herself by paying more than her share...As guys, we have to go for what we want.

My frame would also be that if a woman were to next me for having an off-day, it would say more about her than it would about me though.

Nothing wrong with complimenting a woman on her feet, BTW. I say weird shiat all the time and it works fine. If you're cool saying it and you're not trying for a reaction, then you're fine. Anyway, I do wonder if she has someone else she's into already, though. A 35-year-old woman on Match.com tends to not have a lot of great options. It does seem a little strange that she wrote you off after one so-so date if your first really was as good as it sounded...
 

##17

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Latinoman said:
I agree.

The advantage that you and I have is that we are very good at math for obvious reasons. A bill comes to the table and looking at the total, I already know if the total amount makes sense without having to "study" the bill. I have corrected mistakes made by the server in the past...impressing my date ("Hmmmm...this amount does not make sense...okay, let me see...here, they charged us for two glasses of wine that we did not drink"). And coming with the tip is literally automatic, even if it is what many people consider "odd" percentages such as 15% or 25%.

Being good with numbers is a wonderful thing. LOL.
LOL, my friend. I agree. But we know that the turn-on for women is that they see that we are smart and take charge. It's effortless, like we just have a skilled way of moving through the world...
 

##17

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Latinoman said:
I personally don't do "dinner dates" (unless I was cooking in my home or hers) without first having had sex with her or having kissed her or having some level of intimacy going on.

It is amazing how many men go to Match.com and meet 6-8 women per month and take them ALL to dinner dates. That's a LOT of money to spend.
Absolutely.

(1) Every other guy does dinner dates. A guy should want to take a woman where she hasn't gone before.
(2) What has she done to *deserve* having money spent on her? A guy should save that for when there is an actual relationship between the girl and him. Otherwise, he kinda comes across as a chump.
(3) Imagination always trumps money. Better if a girl likes a guy because she admires his creativity and ability to make things happen, and not his willingness to pull out his AmEx card.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Bible_Belt said:
It would make sense that they met on match.com - she's probably a serial dater/female dj.
You do have a point. I love it when a woman suggests going to dinner for the first meeting. I tell them outright that since we're just meeting I'd rather keep it simple and casual; just coffee and conversation. Typically I can tell either by their reply or during the meeting whether they're just in it for a free meal.

Damn, I love this clip. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHkHrdgDjNY
 

KarmaSutra

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
You do have a point. I love it when a woman suggests going to dinner for the first meeting. I tell them outright that since we're just meeting I'd rather keep it simple and casual; just coffee and conversation. Typically I can tell either by their reply or during the meeting whether they're just in it for a free meal.
Correctamundo!
 

Latinoman

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##17 said:
You learned your lessons about not taking control and sounding anal...

LOL...if I really wanted to see her again, I might have come back with "I guess we really do have a lot in common after all! Seriously, we had fun the first time, we'll have a blast again.."

I know I'm going to get blasted here for suggesting that, but hey, what do you have to lose? She did write you back and she qualified herself by paying more than her share...As guys, we have to go for what we want.

My frame would also be that if a woman were to next me for having an off-day, it would say more about her than it would about me though.

Nothing wrong with complimenting a woman on her feet, BTW. I say weird shiat all the time and it works fine. If you're cool saying it and you're not trying for a reaction, then you're fine. Anyway, I do wonder if she has someone else she's into already, though. A 35-year-old woman on Match.com tends to not have a lot of great options. It does seem a little strange that she wrote you off after one so-so date if your first really was as good as it sounded...
Absolutely!

First date was GREAT! Second date SUCKED! He tried to contact her (I know I would have contacted her too, btw, especially after having a great date the first time)...there is no doubt in my mind that I would have managed to take her out again.

But it takes some skills and funny and ****y approach. I am very sexual with women I am already taking to a "date". My emails turn into sexual innuendos. I know how to do that. And by doing that, they start to see me as a sexual being. ;-)

Guitarplr still has a LOT to learn as he is very insecure and analyze every little thing...like women do.
 

Latinoman

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##17 said:
Absolutely.

(1) Every other guy does dinner dates. A guy should want to take a woman where she hasn't gone before.
(2) What has she done to *deserve* having money spent on her? A guy should save that for when there is an actual relationship between the girl and him. Otherwise, he kinda comes across as a chump.
(3) Imagination always trumps money. Better if a girl likes a guy because she admires his creativity and ability to make things happen, and not his willingness to pull out his AmEx card.
Exactly.

And we todays technology...a couple of well placed emails can take care of that. Forget about IM or hours in the telephone.

I use emails (even with women that I might interact quite frequently in this City), because I can become "sexual" without getting them that concerned or putting them in the spot. I allow them to feel comfortable. And once I start going out with them...the "sexual" vibe has been established to the point that I already know there is attraction and I have no issues going for a kiss or a well placed touch. The thing is that when you "target" professional women in a city that they might know somebody that might eventually influence your career, you have to be careful and subtle.

Now...lot of men abuse emails to the point that they substitute them for the Real Thing. Emails should be only used to "condiment" the target. To "marinate" the target. To give the target a false sense of security...hehehe. But should not be a substitute for FACE to FACE interaction.

Once that is done...and once she has seen you in public places a few times (e.g. walking to the train station or to the bus or to the subway or in your way to the office)...she won't even care if all you want to do is go for a walk in the park and eat one of those cheap hot dogs. Hahaha.
 

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
You do have a point. I love it when a woman suggests going to dinner for the first meeting. I tell them outright that since we're just meeting I'd rather keep it simple and casual; just coffee and conversation. Typically I can tell either by their reply or during the meeting whether they're just in it for a free meal.

Damn, I love this clip. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHkHrdgDjNY
I am not into the "Online" thing as you well know.

But if I was and she suggest going to dinner for the first meeting...I would have say..."That's very nice of you inviting me to your place for dinner...what are you going to cook? And how do I get there?"
 

GtarPlayr73

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I thought i had actually learned things when i first came onto this site. Just one date later, and i'm reeling from the carefully crafted bs of a female dj. The woman is 35 years old and still single. She said that she's famous among her friends for "never going to get married". Now, there is nothing wrong with not getting married, but i've noticed that women who are set against marriage always seem to have major intimacy issues and are man-haters. She told me she was engaged last year and broke it off shortly before the wedding day. Who knows what the hell is going on in her mind?

No more starting off with dinner dates.

Onto the meat of this post. If i'm going to give you who i really am, it's got to be full PAINFUL disclosure, otherwise, you never get the full and complete picture and you cannot address it accurately. I DO NOT want to reveal anything more about this episode, but no pain, no gain. No secrets here.

When she wrote that "i'm such a cheapskate too" email, she ended it by saying how excited she was for the second date, because we had such a rare connection, but then she was so disappointed when she concluded we were "incompatible". Well, when you haven't fully unplugged from the Feminatrix, when you still have those rose-colored glasses in front of your eyes, you will continue to bite on such tripe. A pathetic stream of oneitis liquid will dribble through you feminized brain and harden into a jelly of futile hope and you will do very stupid things...

So i emailed her one last time and said maybe it was the heat and exhaustion that caused us to have such a bland date. I then told her that our being opposites was a good thing. One can challenge the other where there are differences and wasn't that what she said she wanted in her profile? A man who challenged her? On i went for several paragraphs reasoning why we should not shrink away from our differences but embrace them as ways we could compliment each other. And as for her thinking our individual quirks would drive each other crazy, weren't those quirks precisely what one appreciates about the other? (reference to Robin Williams's monologue in Good Will Hunting). I then told her i had wanted her more and more as the day unfolded, not just physically, but also by the force of her personality and its difference to my own. Her reply was short and to the point, as would surprise none of you. She reiterated very simply that though we had a connection, she did not feel we were compatible. With that, i deleted all of our emails, removed her from my match list, and licked my (self-inflicted AFC) wounds.

Guys, i can't tell you how embarrassing and demoralizing it is to relate this to you. It was total failure. Even i was shocked at the stupidity of my actions. It's blindness, brothers. Pure, rediculous, knee-jerk-reaction BLINDNESS that will drive an AFC to do such a thing! I'm a fucking tadpole in this game. I'm like an addict who is out-of-control and i'm starting from the bottom rung of the ladder to recovery. I am a boy in a man's body, "blessed" with good-looks and a strong analytical mind and a few talents and i have nothing to offer women here and now. I am weak and co-dependant. I am calculating, stiff, boring, and lifeless around women. This is my confession. I start from here.

Please, i don't need any "what an afc move, dude" replies. You are preaching to the choir. This episode has opened my eyes to the reality of what this website discusses. There was a child's ****iness still at play within as i headed toward AFC disaster on Saturday. That ****iness is gone. Life must beat such things out of you. Latinoman knows this well, for his tough-love messages are gleaming hard truths. The AFC way is the way of ignorant stubbornness fed by fear and weakness. It refuses to recognize truth. It only dies when reality hammers in finally on that one last failure that finally penetrates to the last pockets of resistance. When that happens, "hope", which was really nothing but stubborn ignorance, is eradicated and replaced by determinism, the first deposits of masculinity. And what is masculinity? Now i see that it is simply the substance that cuts through the feminine game of bullshit, that load of lies and manipulation that distracts and blinds a man from the unswerving course that the lie-telling feminine spirit actually desires itself and needs a man to take it on. A man can only lead when he fully realizes that the woman is incapable of steering herself. Up till now, i trusted each and every woman i was with to lead ME into delirious paradise, but the sad reality was that they led me in circles that flushed down the toilet bowl of confusion and needy bewilderment. I have lounged before the goddess of "love and romance" for years, fed by an endless succession of movies, television, and well-intentioned parental advice and comfort-giving...all trimmed in soft edges, all like cotton candy - tasty to eat, but bad for the body and positively useless for growing to male maturity.

At first, i despair of how to approach women now, for they play a game, the rules of which i do not know. I feel overwhelmed and lost before i even begin. How does one behave with women? You can't take their words for anything. You can't be logical with them. I feel like i'm trying to play a game without knowing the rules and have no chance of winning. How can any man win with women? How can women be satisfied if men don't know how they play? Then, i realize this: there is but one rule that determines how men are to behave with women and that is to cut through the feminine fog by charting your course before you set sail. Everything else will be resolved automatically and women will happily and deliriously fixate and follow. Masculinity is unflinching autonomy and self-sufficiency, which is the opposite of feminine dependancy. This i have not yet experienced for myself, for until now, i have been the very epitome of feminized, questioning, unsure, calculating, following, passive dependancy. While it is difficult and painful to face this, it is also extremely, extremely exciting because i see where i need to go from here and what i need to develop in myself. There is direction. The male is represented by a pointing arrow...
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Latinoman said:
I am not into the "Online" thing as you well know.

But if I was and she suggest going to dinner for the first meeting...I would have say..."That's very nice of you inviting me to your place for dinner...what are you going to cook? And how do I get there?"
That's what I would typically do after the first meeting. I'm adventurous but I'm not quite comfortable going to a woman's house before vibing her face to face. I just enjoy being somewhere that I can make a quick getaway if necessary.

That's not to say that I we wouldn't end up at either one's home after having coffee. I just had a woman spend the weekend at my place after our first "official" meeting.
 

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GtarPlayr73 said:
...Guys, i can't tell you how embarrassing and demoralizing it is to relate this to you. It was total failure. Even i was shocked at the stupidity of my actions. It's blindness, brothers. Pure, rediculous, knee-jerk-reaction BLINDNESS that will drive an AFC to do such a thing! I'm a fucking tadpole in this game. I'm like an addict who is out-of-control and i'm starting from the bottom rung of the ladder to recovery. I am a boy in a man's body, "blessed" with good-looks and a strong analytical mind and a few talents and i have nothing to offer women here and now. I am weak and co-dependant. I am calculating, stiff, boring, and lifeless around women. This is my confession. I start from here. ...
Alright you've established what you're working with, you can learn if you are willing to change. But back to my original question from a while back; what exactly did you feel that you had in common with this woman?
 
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