Fornication

[backbreaker]

I don't understand why I can't cut my facial hair (in letviticus) or why I got to sleep outside in a tent for 8 days once a year (in letviticus) or why you can cut of some one hand and they get to do the same but blasphemy means death (in Leviticus), or why I should respect and honor my mom if she is a crack head etc

But like I said I don't know but god does.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

I'm pretty sure somewhere in Leviticus in mentions the rules for proper treatment of slaves.

 

[Von]

Curious about this subject, cause recently, I've meet a extreme catholic girl who doesn't want to do it before marriage.

It's been the most easy, simple, flowing development with her than I've had with any other girls.... No test, feminin, knows what she want, witted (she replies to joke etc...) ... she's been more and more open to physical intimacy with times but she always have a control at the end but myself recently my hormones got the best out of me and for her I got close to the red line.

So she asked to reframe our relation because she want to continue but by respecting her boundaries and finding ways to do it.

Everytime I've meet her, the physical got more intense, the fun (dating part better)... but she mentionned we still ''quasi-stranger''

It's the first time however, someone bring that religion/belief card like that and follow it (note: we known each other 4 months so might still be short for her).... maybe I was too fast and she still some has insecurities but she want to discuss them,

Funny, how can it be a fufilling relation if we don't fully in it.... and if commitments are made... how to make sure there is still happiness after it (like no sech deprivation lol married or not)

Note: She knows I dont have her values, control over it etc... I've told her... she does have issues and are afraid of not making ''things'' perfect (told her that)

 

[Red Legg]

My favorite book of the Bible is Ecclesiastes (read it sometime).King Solomon says over and over again "meaningless ! meaningless ! everything is meaningless !!.(He had everything,some say the richest man on earth at the time and a 1000 women harem of beautiful women).He concludes at the end of the book that after trying everything under the sun,it was all meaningless..... and the only thing doing with any meaning was worshiping God.Ecclesiastes 1.... "Meaningless ! meaningless ! " says the teacher."Utterly meaningless ! Everything is meaningless".

 

[Atom Smasher]

And that's why I always say that chasing after sex is an exercise in dissipation. What's the real reason we do it? For an ever-so-brief feeling of power and being a conqueror.

Better to spend time and energy conquering oneself.

 

[Gimple]

Bottom line...

Yahweh, or the Christian god, is still a fictitious character dreamed up by some ancient dude.

And what he supposedly says doesn't matter and has no relevance to the living of life.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The trouble for mankind is the mystery of faith.

The trouble for God is mankind's free will, which was granted by God.

I've often thought of God as a creative force in the Universe...perhaps he granted free will as an experiment...I don't know.

Faith to me is belief without knowing. It is tough to reconcile until such point as the realization that it cannot be reconciled, but rather it must be accepted. Thank God for Jesus. That's all I'm saying.

Sadly a lot of 'Christians' deprive themselves of the collected wisdom and the culture of the Church. Why they should do so is itself a mystery. Perhaps with a vacuous view of freedom in mind, it becomes both an eccentric and egocentric view of religion... so much so, that religion itself becomes a dirty word, which is not surprising when you consider religio means to bind together.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Bottom line...

Yahweh, or the Christian god, is still a fictitious character dreamed up by some ancient dude.

And what he supposedly says doesn't matter and has no relevance to the living of life.

If God does not exist, then all things are permitted. We thought this was true until we did all things.

This not only goes to show that there is a moral reality, but that that reality is our central concern. It is no what we think we know, not our science, that is important. Rather, it is understanding what is good and true. We are compelled to recognize this in order to be free [the paradox of freedom].

 

[Bible_Belt]

Bottom line...

Yahweh, or the Christian god, is still a fictitious character dreamed up by some ancient dude.

And what he supposedly says doesn't matter and has no relevance to the living of life.

2 COR 4:4
.....the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light.....

 

[Red Legg]

2 COR 4:4
.....the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light.....

Almighty God will also "harden" the unbelievers heart (like he did Pharaoh) (Exodus 7:3-4) to make sure you are blinded and burn in Hell..

 

[Gimple]

Almighty God will also "harden" the unbelievers heart (like he did Pharaoh) (Exodus 7:3-4) to make sure you are blinded and burn in Hell..

Sounds like a very compassionate dude.

 

[Von]

Almighty God will also "harden" the unbelievers heart (like he did Pharaoh) (Exodus 7:3-4) to make sure you are blinded and burn in Hell..

I thought ththey were no hell in the B

 

[Atom Smasher]

Sounds like a very compassionate dude.

When you look at the times when God speaks of hardening hearts, he is speaking of people who have already shown him the hand and have no interest in him. God is patient but there comes a time when he says, "You've had your chances". The hardening then comes so that he can use that person to accomplish what he needs to in those who will respond positively to him.

I prefer to look at his compassion on those who genuinely want to know him, rather than his judgment on those who reject him.

We should always remember that God is constrained by his own perfectly just character. He is completely unable to just overlook the problem of sin, else he would be acting against his own character. Just as a human judge cannot overlook a person's crimes because the criminal has done good things in the past, so God cannot overlook sin. It must be dealt with. Fortunately, he provided a way for us to reconcile. Many don't accept that, because most prefer to be "God", calling their own shots and self-defining right and wrong, instead of finding out from God what is right and wrong, and answering to a higher moral authority. This is the very essence of mankind's rebellion... thinking of himself as the moral authority.

 

[samspade]

When you look at the times when God speaks of hardening hearts, he is speaking of people who have already shown him the hand and have no interest in him. God is patient but there comes a time when he says, "You've had your chances". The hardening then comes so that he can use that person to accomplish what he needs to in those who will respond positively to him.

I prefer to look at his compassion on those who genuinely want to know him, rather than his judgment on those who reject him.

We should always remember that God is constrained by his own perfectly just character. He is completely unable to just overlook the problem of sin, else he would be acting against his own character. Just as a human judge cannot overlook a person's crimes because the criminal has done good things in the past, so God cannot overlook sin. It must be dealt with. Fortunately, he provided a way for us to reconcile. Many don't accept that, because most prefer to be "God", calling their own shots and self-defining right and wrong, instead of finding out from God what is right and wrong, and answering to a higher moral authority. This is the very essence of mankind's rebellion... thinking of himself as the moral authority.

That's an interesting take. What I don't get is 1) how can He be constrained by anything if he is omnipotent, and 2) if he is omnipotent, why doesn't He know who is going to turn out bad?

E.g.,

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was, and who is to come. The Almighty.”

and

Psalm 147:5 - “Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.”

He is infinite and so is His understanding. If He is and was and is to come, He is infinite, so time and space must be irrelevant to Him. Time and space encompass all events in the universe, past, present, and future. He cannot possibly be ignorant of any person's fate to commit sin. We call it free will on Earth but if God created all, He must see all end games. It's a paradox to me that God could create literally everything and then cast blame on His creation.

 

[Julian]

That's an interesting take. What I don't get is 1) how can He be constrained by anything if he is omnipotent, and 2) if he is omnipotent, why doesn't He know who is going to turn out bad?

E.g.,

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was, and who is to come. The Almighty.”

and

Psalm 147:5 - “Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.”

He is infinite and so is His understanding. If He is and was and is to come, He is infinite, so time and space must be irrelevant to Him. Time and space encompass all events in the universe, past, present, and future. He cannot possibly be ignorant of any person's fate to commit sin. We call it free will on Earth but if God created all, He must see all end games. It's a paradox to me that God could create literally everything and then cast blame on His creation.

Because evil exists dude. Man has the personal power to reject God and turn to the dark side. Thats why its called free will. But there will be a judgement as all actions have consequences. There is no paradox in what your saying because humans have the ability to shape their destiny through good and evil in beliefs and deeds.

All the atheists on here, dont you realiE youve been brainwashed by luciferian doctrine of do what thou wilt and you think this planet, our lives and everythinf is just some random coincidence? Lol.

 

[Atom Smasher]

That's an interesting take. What I don't get is 1) how can He be constrained by anything if he is omnipotent, and 2) if he is omnipotent, why doesn't He know who is going to turn out bad?

1) For him to act against his perfect nature is a logical absurdity, therefore he cannot do that. It's like the old question, "Can God create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?" That is a logical absurdity. He cannot create a rock that he cannot lift. Similarly, he cannot act against his sense of righteousness and justice. To do so would be to annihilate himself, which of course he cannot do.

2) He does. He knows everything from beginning to end, and he knows each man's heart. His knowledge of what men will do does not mean that he pre-ordained their actions. He lives outside of time and space. He created time and space as an "environment" or container for us to live in. Since he sees us from outside the space/time continuum, he sees the beginning and the end simultaneously.

Men are free to do whatever they want within that environment, and they are held accountable for it.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

1) For him to act against his perfect nature is a logical absurdity, therefore he cannot do that. It's like the old question, "Can God create a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?" That is a logical absurdity. He cannot create a rock that he cannot lift. Similarly, he cannot act against his sense of righteousness and justice. To do so would be to annihilate himself, which of course he cannot do.

2) He does. He knows everything from beginning to end, and he knows each man's heart. His knowledge of what men will do does not mean that he pre-ordained their actions. He lives outside of time and space. He created time and space as an "environment" or container for us to live in. Since he sees us from outside the space/time continuum, he sees the beginning and the end simultaneously.

Men are free to do whatever they want within that environment, and they are held accountable for it.

I'm not sure about this... I am OK with rational uncertainty because it is not required for faith.

The problem is when you start drawing a theological line in the sand, it will be contested all too well by opposite reasoning [such as Sampade's above].

It is the old chestnut; are God's commandment's good because He has willed them, or are they good because there is some standard beyond His will... such as his character or nature.. or essence?

I think a person of faith should leave this as a mystery... we do not have to [should not] rationalize everything. Indeed, how can we when our language and our logic are themselves but tools for finite creatures such as ourselves to interface with the world. It is quite ridiculous when you think of it for us to project our thoughts onto the Creator [and metaphysics]... it's like an ant.. in ant language... trying to describe humanity.

Oh, and the obligatory biblical reference - 'God's ways are not our ways'.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

2) He does. He knows everything from beginning to end, and he knows each man's heart. His knowledge of what men will do does not mean that he pre-ordained their actions. He lives outside of time and space. He created time and space as an "environment" or container for us to live in. Since he sees us from outside the space/time continuum, he sees the beginning and the end simultaneously.

Men are free to do whatever they want within that environment, and they are held accountable for it.

Once again some shaky theology going on here [as all theology must be... for otherwise it would do away with faith].

You seem to be thinking within a Newtonian Universe, where God has created absolute Time and Space, and then sits outside it all [that all soon slid into the story of God the Watchmaker].

1] This is just a model of the universe, and an outdated one at that. Talking about inner and outer aspects is problematic/ ideological... as are all dichotomies.

2] It seems to me the theist wants to suggest both that God is transcendent and immanent; he is also the ground of all Being.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

He is infinite and so is His understanding. If He is and was and is to come, He is infinite, so time and space must be irrelevant to Him. Time and space encompass all events in the universe, past, present, and future. He cannot possibly be ignorant of any person's fate to commit sin. We call it free will on Earth but if God created all, He must see all end games. It's a paradox to me that God could create literally everything and then cast blame on His creation.

There is definitely the idea of predestination in the bible, which comes from God's omnipotence. And so I wouldn't argue with that.

But then there is our idea of determination [buttressed by the idea of natural causation in a physical universe of laws] , which conflicts with free will. This plank is probably the one to question if a direct contradiction is felt.

The way I see it is that God's foreknowledge of everything is not deterministic [the alternative is the horror of Calvin's theology where all are predestined/ determined to damnation or salvation]. Even though He may have foreseen the choices we will make, we are still self-determining in the making of those choices. If we are made in the image of God then we would be like little gods ourselves in so far as we are creative.

Logical problems can also reflect the problem of logic - we think in either/ or terms; that reality must be this or that. But this might not necessarily apply to reality. It may be the case that there are gradations of reality... like a series of concentric circles, Being and Becoming etc. And this may accommodate different forms of knowing, and the relationship there is between knowing and believing. This way of thinking was more amenable to ancient and Christian culture and theology. Literature and poetry may be the last remnants of this way of thinking today... language is analogical and figurative. Where modern theology went wrong is in its attempt to ape rationalism with its literalism, which soon led to the Reformation... opps, that is where rationalism started.

 

[Atom Smasher]

The thing to do when one wants to know who God is, is to read his actual words, rather than speculate and theorize. I don't think in Newtonian terms, but rather biblical.