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Fornication

Gimple

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The pot doesn't get to dictate to the potter how he is made. You don't like it. Noted. You might as well be arguing that it is stupid that the sky is blue.
But I'm saying that potter doesn't even exist. And I don't see how arguing that is like arguing that it is stupid that the sky is blue. Plus, I've presented plenty of evidence to support my argument.

Do you never, ever truly question your religious beliefs -- rather than just accepting them because you were probably raised in an environment where they were drilled into you repeatedly over a period of years and years starting from infancy when your mind was like a sponge, ready to absorb and accept anything, all without your consent?

I can't tell you how great the sense of liberation is when a person finally realizes and accepts that they've been lied to throughout their youth and brainwashed into believing a set of myths that lead to a life filled with unwarranted fear and guilt, and then finally breaks free from all that self-imposed worry and anguish.

The feeling can probably be likened to being a long-term prisoner who escapes Alcatraz.

Christianity creates the problem, then it offers to solve that problem. But that problem is imaginary, and so it's solution.

It's probably the greatest scam of all time.
 
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zekko

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Do you never, ever truly question your religious beliefs
I'm the type of person who always questions. If you look at my posts I am always questioning PUA dogma. I went through a short period of time when I was an atheist, but I came to the conclusion I was wrong.

I guarantee you I have heard and considered every argument you can come up with why there is no God, and more besides. You can't prove it either way.

And there is the value of faith. It all comes down to your own personal philosophical decision about God, life, creation, and meaning. You have to make a choice. Perhaps what you choose says a lot about you. Or perhaps faith is just a gift.

You say you like Jesus, but are you aware He claimed to be God in the flesh? And that He was the fulfillment of that Old Testament you dislike so much? If you don't accept thaf part of the gospel, I don't know why you believe the rest of it.
 

Gimple

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I guarantee you I have heard and considered every argument you can come up with why there is no God, and more besides. You can't prove it either way.
Again, I have never said there is no god. I have only said that Yahweh is a fictional character dreamed up by men.

You say you like Jesus, but are you aware He claimed to be God in the flesh? And that He was the fulfillment of that Old Testament you dislike so much? If you don't accept thaf part of the gospel, I don't know why you believe the rest of it.
Just because I like someone and agree with a lot of what they say doesn't mean I don't also disagree with other things they say.

And the parts I agree with isn't a matter of belief. It's a matter of what is of practical value in the living of life.
 

zekko

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Again, I have never said there is no god. I have only said that Yahweh is a fictional character dreamed up by men.
You like Jesus but keep referring to God by his Old Testament name, whom you say is a monster. Are you sure this isn't just some sort of anti-semitic rant?

Anyway, you were defending atheism back on page 2. Among other things, you said:
"That's why lack of religion is red pill. It acknowledges that all gods (so far) have been inventions of man, which is a truth that can be tough for some to stomach."
So you acknowledge that there may be a god, but we just haven't figured out who or what that might be yet? Well, that's progress, I guess.
 

Gimple

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You like Jesus but keep referring to God by his Old Testament name, whom you say is a monster. Are you sure this isn't just some sort of anti-semitic rant?
Yahweh wasn't a Jew. But Jesus was. You do the math.

So you acknowledge that there may be a god, but we just haven't figured out who or what that might be yet? Well, that's progress, I guess.
Thomas Edison said, "Negative results are just what I want. They’re just as valuable to me as positive results. I can never find the thing that does the job best until I find the ones that don’t." In the same way, perhaps denouncing all our beliefs in false gods, like Yahweh, will put us closer to discovering the real one, if it even exists.
 

zekko

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Von

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Yahweh wasn't a Jew. But Jesus was. You do the math.


Thomas Edison said, "Negative results are just what I want. They’re just as valuable to me as positive results. I can never find the thing that does the job best until I find the ones that don’t." In the same way, perhaps denouncing all our beliefs in false gods, like Yahweh, will put us closer to discovering the real one, if it even exists.
The Church... or Religion sells LOVE.... LOVE that FREE you

Is fornication good or bad? At the end
 

ChristopherColumbus

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Do you never, ever truly question your religious beliefs -- rather than just accepting them because you were probably raised in an environment where they were drilled into you repeatedly over a period of years and years starting from infancy when your mind was like a sponge, ready to absorb and accept anything, all without your consent?
.
I always question the pragmatics/ consequence of belief, whether political or religious. I don't disregard truth altogether, I just think I am more than a logical machine. And so I ask what is the Good Life... in the sense of the full development of all spheres of existence, and then look for a harmony or a hierarchy of sorts between them. In this view of things, belief becomes 'triangulated' between such things as truth, goodness, and unity.

Looking at the American political scene at the moment, you can't help but see a disaster unfolding where mass politics has been reduced to ideology. The opposing parties completely talk past each other. Tolerance, based on a belief in reason, is breaking down to be replaced by power.

Though of course 'religion' can also produce fanatics [witness the more radical of the religious right], it can also help to distance ourselves from subscribing to simplistic formulas... or from drowning ourselves in a sea of technology.

It distances ourselves, at the personal and pragmatic level, by not taking this life too seriously, nor by seeing it as meaningless. It also serves to siphon off excess energy to a transcendent realm [the sublimation of art?]. Ideally, if we believe ourselves to be moral/ rational creatures with a destination, this should foster a civility toward our fellow travelers.

Of course, religion is also responsible for a great deal of violence. But then the interpretation of this differs depending on your view of origins. If the order of civilization was originally hard won from a violent chaos, that is one thing. If religion only served to repress our original freedom, as fancied by French philosophy, then that is quite another.

Maybe there needs to be some state of orthodoxy, a belief which unifies men into a culture, by which they can then freely speculate and tolerate all opinions. For those opinions would be just that... akin to conceptual art. Our problem today is we are seeing tolerance fall apart due to a lack of some orthodoxy, whether secular or religious. The Left represents the old liberal modern idea, the Right represents the 'post' modern, and the twain never meet. The forces of religion, culture and history may serve to broaden our imaginative experience and get beyond dry logical dichotomies.
 
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zekko

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sorry Leviticus Chapter 20
That's the Old Covenant, but it does make an interesting list of what you might call sexual immoralities. That might make as good a definition of fornication as anything. I imagine the LGBTs would not like it. But it's interesting that it does not mention a single man and woman having sex as being unclean.

This is somewhat unrelated, and I don't remember the source here, but someone was talking about how when God gave the promised land to Israel, he commanded that they kill all the pagans living there. They saw this as a brutal thing that a loving God would never do. But someone else pointed out that the Israelites were disobedient, did NOT kill all the people living there, and as a result to this day the Jews still cannot find peace in their land because of others who claim it as theirs. The point being that if they had been obedient and killed them all, they would be having peace today. Maybe, anyway.
 

backbreaker

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I can tell u without even looking that would be in the book of Kings first kings


People think the Bible says they shalt not kill. It doesn't. It says thou shalt not murder. God makes it as clear as day through out the Bible there are things u can do that warrant u forfitting your life.

The ten commandments is Exodus chapter 20. Literally lol, chapter 19 lol the chapter right before, he tells Moses that if anyone besides Moses goes even to the tip of the mountain where God has come down to speak to Moses to kill them



. Have them wash their clothes" 11 and be ready by the third day"because on that day the Lord will come down" on Mount Siani in the sight of all the people. 12 for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. 13 They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”
 

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born Catholic. Communion but no confirmation. My relationship with God is personal. I believe in the bible although im only now starting to get versed in it. I come from a very atheistic and hedonistic mindset. Machievellien in some ways. Also studied laveyan satanic doctrine in my teens (like an idiot) and was culturally brainwashed through music like marilyn manson, slipknot, etc etc like alot of people. now its the hiphop generation. anyway my point is I came to Jesus Christ following what I believe to be evil activity I was attracting into my life through all this BS.

Now Ive basically realized the evil matrix the world is in currently. The earth is like a beautiful dove being slowly more an more ensared by a web of evil. What can we do about it? Pray and be on God's side. Remember that good will win in the end and this physical realm is only a blink of an eye in the course of eternal time when compared to the afterlife and where your soul and essence end up. I feel bad for atheists that are so blinded. they say that Christians are blinded and believe in myths. Thats unfortunate they believe that when everything they have been taught and brought up in is a literal damned lie. I pray more people will open their hearts and minds. Ive had some personal breakthroughs recently. And I know that its all happening for a reason.

You have to wonder WHY alot of people have a complete and innate/learned hate of all things Christian. I mean what is it exactly that sparks such hostility? Maybe its been environmental subconscious brainwashing of the masses for the last 30 years on all fronts. Not to mention the complete and utter infiltration of all major Christian religious sects basically. IE the vatican is straight up satanic af. have you seen the popes throne? google it. Anyway the world is really in a bad place currently and its only going to get worse before it gets better so be prepared for it my brothers. In mind body and soul as well as connection to God and the world. OR

just take the blue pill and keep living in the matrix bubble.
 

Von

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born Catholic. Communion but no confirmation. My relationship with God is personal. I believe in the bible although im only now starting to get versed in it. I come from a very atheistic and hedonistic mindset. Machievellien in some ways. Also studied laveyan satanic doctrine in my teens (like an idiot) and was culturally brainwashed through music like marilyn manson, slipknot, etc etc like alot of people. now its the hiphop generation. anyway my point is I came to Jesus Christ following what I believe to be evil activity I was attracting into my life through all this BS.

Now Ive basically realized the evil matrix the world is in currently. The earth is like a beautiful dove being slowly more an more ensared by a web of evil. What can we do about it? Pray and be on God's side. Remember that good will win in the end and this physical realm is only a blink of an eye in the course of eternal time when compared to the afterlife and where your soul and essence end up. I feel bad for atheists that are so blinded. they say that Christians are blinded and believe in myths. Thats unfortunate they believe that when everything they have been taught and brought up in is a literal damned lie. I pray more people will open their hearts and minds. Ive had some personal breakthroughs recently. And I know that its all happening for a reason.

You have to wonder WHY alot of people have a complete and innate/learned hate of all things Christian. I mean what is it exactly that sparks such hostility? Maybe its been environmental subconscious brainwashing of the masses for the last 30 years on all fronts. Not to mention the complete and utter infiltration of all major Christian religious sects basically. IE the vatican is straight up satanic af. have you seen the popes throne? google it. Anyway the world is really in a bad place currently and its only going to get worse before it gets better so be prepared for it my brothers. In mind body and soul as well as connection to God and the world. OR

just take the blue pill and keep living in the matrix bubble.
Most devoted christians i know live in a blue pill world.

They live in misérable lives and situation which prom their kids to go in communities or take the "vows"

They freak out when they see the "real" world

Religion was tossed away when the governement had enough ressources to start social programs and replace the "religious group" (in éducation, elderly care, hospital, poverty)

I ressurected this thread cause for the first time... a girl In my life is hardcore catholic so wanna learn more

Julian, alot of people see religion has evil because of the people who représented the institution: forcing women to be dressed in veil (like muslim burka), no abortion, have kids or we kill you, rapist (in school, church, orphange) etc... alot of it due to their politicial control and pressuring people to alienation

Why do you think protestant priest have the right to marry? While catholic shame it (the church was a huge refuge for lgtb groups and offenders)

No matter what we believe.. we need to make and built à fullphilling life and a good one (John locke, protestant enlightment)
 

backbreaker

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For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God


You cannot look at mans actions to try to justify god because man is inherently flawed and God is not


I used to be a militant athiest. I was the worst cause I really do know the Bible inside and out


There is power in admitting you dont know. **** I dont know why God does the things he does when he does them. But god knows. I don't know...but god does.


Think of it like this. I got a two year old daughter. My wife was out of town one day and I had to go shopping so I took the kids with me and it was busy and while w were on the sidewalk chanel my daughter wondered off while I was on the phone. Not far but still she almost ran into the street. So I run after her grab her and spank her hand and tell her not to run off and she starts crying. Now she's mad at daddy and we get home and she puts on this Oscar worthy act to her momma about how daddy hit her and now she got her lip pooked out.

My point is this. Just because your mind isn't able to wrap it's head around something, just because something to u in your eyes looks evil or mean spirited, doesn't mean it's still not just and right. Chanel doesn't know what a child molester is or that cars can run over you or any number of bad things that can happen. She just knows daddy spanked her.

Just because you can't explain god or god doesn't make sense to you, or because God does something you don't agree with doesn't mean he's not there. The human mind cannot possibly fathom good in his entity.


The aseity of God. Meaning god exists of himself and is entirely self sufficient. He exist within himself of himself. God exists outside of the scope of time, places.


Let me put it another way.it is impossible for God to go somewhere. Because he is already there. It is impossible for God to learn because God already knows everything. God invented the concept of time he can't go back in time or go to the future. God is everywhere, at all times, forever. That is a concept the human brain cannot even begin to wrap it's head around.



The best way to demonstrate this.. did u know that the mountain where Abraham was about to scrifice his son, is the exact same place where Jesus was crucified? Exact same place, give or take three thousand years. Instead god told him to sacrifice a ram (lamb) that was caught in thorns (crown of thorns). In Genesis god tells Abraham that he has to go to the exact place on the exact mountain.... because 1. God ready had the ram waiting and had he gone somewhere else he would have missed it and 2. God is also right there at the same time with Jesus and understands the future significance the mountain will play



Christianity isn't about Pope's, church, evangelists it's about your personal relationship with God.


And even though you sent him, god still loves you. And looks out for you even when you don't believe in him.

I denied God for s decade and he still loves me enough to bless .e with wealty, health and a perfect family




I look at my little brother....who went through that ordeal with that girl. When it all happened he wrote her a good bye letter and said how she motivated him to work harder and that six months from now, you will look back on this and regret your decision....my brother is more religious than I am....six months to the ****ing day...she died of a herion overdose. You might think it's a concidence but to me that is god backing up my brothers words.
 
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BeExcellent

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The trouble for mankind is the mystery of faith.

The trouble for God is mankind's free will, which was granted by God.

I've often thought of God as a creative force in the Universe...perhaps he granted free will as an experiment...I don't know.

Faith to me is belief without knowing. It is tough to reconcile until such point as the realization that it cannot be reconciled, but rather it must be accepted. Thank God for Jesus. That's all I'm saying.
 

backbreaker

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Faith for me is hard because I am smart and I have two of the most hypocritical parents on Earth. Who both go to church every Sunday.
Wanna test your faith, do what the bible says then watch your mom kick you out the house for no reason, hate your wife because she's white and watch ur dad be too busy cheating on his woman to see his grandkids.


Read the entire book of leveticus and come out of it with faith. Really imho that's the worst book in the Bible it serves no purpose
 

Bible_Belt

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Read the entire book of leveticus and come out of it with faith. Really imho that's the worst book in the Bible it serves no purpose
Leviticus was a health class for dirty desert Jews. Considering that there was no science at the time - no one knew about germs, bacteria, viruses, STDs, condoms, etc, and also considering that there was virtually no health care, so a little problem could mean death, I don't see the book as running against faith. I actually think it's impressive for the science behind those rules, even if the people following them did not understand the science.

I think a lot of fornication rules in the Bible were about health. Before condoms and antibiotics were invented, it was quite sound advice to be careful where one stuck one's d!ck. Also, Paul's writing in the New Testament, especially Corinthians, were urging people to not participate in the pagan orgies that were a recruiting tool for competing religions. That's mostly what Paul meant when he said to not fornicate.
 
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