A Cautionary Tale: Beware the 30+ Aged Wife...

[Augustus_McCrae]

An all too familiar scenario for myself and many of my friends:

Married young: I was 24 years old. In retrospect, I was way too young and too inexperienced to even make the decision to marry.

She seemed sweet initially: She was cute, had a nice shape and seemed very loving. In the early years of our marriage,She used to make me breakfast in the morning and would prepare a nice lunch to take to work. She would kiss me when I left for work and hand me my lunch on the way out the door. When I came home from work, she would greet me with another kiss and have dinner ready to be served.

The years passed and we had two children...

For the bulk of our marriage, she was a stay at home Mom. We both felt that was the best thing for the kids. When the girls were small, she actually seemed to be a decent Mother. I always worked hard and improved myself career wise. But unseen and unrealized by me, over the years she developed a sense of entitlement, she grew spoiled and became used to a certain lifestyle.

She entered her late 30's and things drastically changed... She became irritable, angry, and irrational. We argued almost every day. I began to dread coming home from work. I would roll up into the driveway wondering what private hell I would be facing when I walked in the door. She was obviously suffering from depression and anxiety, but refused to seek help. She never accepted the responsibility for the decisions she made and things she had done. She was always the "victim".

I took my marriage vows seriously and couldn't begin to fathom the breakup of the family unit. My parents had their share of problems but they stayed together. Her's on the other hand, divorced when she was young (When I first met her I was too young to realize that children of divorced parents are more likely to wind up divorced themselves).

She grew worse and worse, more angry and bitter as time went on. I actually thought about leaving. But I realized that, at best, we would get joint custody. Which meant that my children would be subjected to her anger, depression and emotional abuse fifty percent of the time without me around to act as a buffer between them and their Mother.

So I made a pact with myself to stick it out until the youngest entered college.

Fast forward to today: I'm in the middle of an incredibly nasty divorce, racking up thousands of dollars in legal fees, attempting to protect myself from my evil Ex.

She's trying to get permanent, lifetime alimony and she stands a chance of getting it because our marriage held together for so many years.
I'm the one who still partially supports our older child and totally supports the child who is in college. However, support of adult children is not considered when it comes to determining standard of living and alimony. So, while I am morally doing the right thing by helping my children, the law considers my ex wife's wants and needs to be more important than my children.

Many of my friends (ages 40 to 50's) have similar stories to tell. Some stayed for the sake of the kids, some of them didn't even get to make that decision. Their wives divorced them (good old no fault divorce) and they walked away with the kids, cash, prizes and child support. Those who were able to stick it out are faced with the dread alimony issue that I'm facing.

And so many of them say that it all started when the women entered their late 30's. She hit 36 or 37, lost her mind and eventually became unrecognizable from the young girl they fell in love with and married...

So, to all of you men out there considering marriage, let this be a cautionary tale to you: Make sure you totally understand the massive risk you are assuming to your life and your finances by entering into a marriage contract between you, a woman, and the state...

 

[5string]

Oh man! This hits where it hurts. I just hate these stories of heartache and pain. Been there, paid the price.

Gus.....you ever need to talk, pm me. Although I ended it and it's over with my first wife, it never hurts to talk brother.

 

[5string]

Many thansk for the lesson Augustus.


This drives home one of my contested points. The woman you divorce is never the woman you married.


I am a HUGE proponent of screening properly, but even that will not save one from the high potential of agony that awaits you should you choose the path of marriage.

When women decide they want out of a marriage, there is a machine in place to grind up the husband into whatever slices of meat best serves the woman first, and then the children.

No amount of screening can save you from the machine, and it is exactly that machine that pushes me to educate others on what they are up against. Educating others and spreading knowledge where appropriate is the only hope that exists.

This^^^

Although married a second time and enjoying it, I am beginning to wonder if in the big picture, we all should remain single. Are not the risks associated with marriage so great that we should all decline to take our vows? Something to think about I suppose.

These days, women have the upper hand when it comes to divorce.

The law let's them hit on a soft 17 and they most always win, even when you are showing a face card.

 

[Burroughs]

All civilizations from Sumer to Egypt to Ashoka knew this

women are to be held as the property of men
...this is their natural role (excepting of royalty)

they are simply too childish and immature to be called adults

in our time elite men have seen fit to grant women 'equality'...the result has been chaos and subjugation for 99.9% of men

the fact that too few men realize this is why so many marriages take place in the first place

any man who marries is an outright fool

 

[5string]

All civilizations from Sumer to Egypt to Ashoka knew this

women are to be held as the property of men
...this is their natural role (excepting of royalty)

they are simply too childish and immature to be called adults

in our time elite men have seen fit to grant women 'equality'...the result has been chaos and subjugation for 99.9% of men

the fact that too few men realize this is why so many marriages take place in the first place

any man who marries is an outright fool

Hold on there.

Not to say there is no truth to what you have said, there is. I would not however consider myself a fool for being married. I'm actually very happy now.

Promise me you will invite me to your wedding one day brother. Never say never.

 

[SteR]

An all too familiar scenario for myself and many of my friends:

Married young: I was 24 years old. In retrospect, I was way too young and too inexperienced to even make the decision to marry.

She seemed sweet initially: She was cute, had a nice shape and seemed very loving. In the early years of our marriage,She used to make me breakfast in the morning and would prepare a nice lunch to take to work. She would kiss me when I left for work and hand me my lunch on the way out the door. When I came home from work, she would greet me with another kiss and have dinner ready to be served.

The years passed and we had two children...

For the bulk of our marriage, she was a stay at home Mom. We both felt that was the best thing for the kids. When the girls were small, she actually seemed to be a decent Mother. I always worked hard and improved myself career wise. But unseen and unrealized by me, over the years she developed a sense of entitlement, she grew spoiled and became used to a certain lifestyle.

She entered her late 30's and things drastically changed... She became irritable, angry, and irrational. We argued almost every day. I began to dread coming home from work. I would roll up into the driveway wondering what private hell I would be facing when I walked in the door. She was obviously suffering from depression and anxiety, but refused to seek help. She never accepted the responsibility for the decisions she made and things she had done. She was always the "victim".

I took my marriage vows seriously and couldn't begin to fathom the breakup of the family unit. My parents had their share of problems but they stayed together. Her's on the other hand, divorced when she was young (When I first met her I was too young to realize that children of divorced parents are more likely to wind up divorced themselves).

She grew worse and worse, more angry and bitter as time went on. I actually thought about leaving. But I realized that, at best, we would get joint custody. Which meant that my children would be subjected to her anger, depression and emotional abuse fifty percent of the time without me around to act as a buffer between them and their Mother.

So I made a pact with myself to stick it out until the youngest entered college.

Fast forward to today: I'm in the middle of an incredibly nasty divorce, racking up thousands of dollars in legal fees, attempting to protect myself from my evil Ex.

She's trying to get permanent, lifetime alimony and she stands a chance of getting it because our marriage held together for so many years.
I'm the one who still partially supports our older child and totally supports the child who is in college. However, support of adult children is not considered when it comes to determining standard of living and alimony. So, while I am morally doing the right thing by helping my children, the law considers my ex wife's wants and needs to be more important than my children.

Many of my friends (ages 40 to 50's) have similar stories to tell. Some stayed for the sake of the kids, some of them didn't even get to make that decision. Their wives divorced them (good old no fault divorce) and they walked away with the kids, cash, prizes and child support. Those who were able to stick it out are faced with the dread alimony issue that I'm facing.

And so many of them say that it all started when the women entered their late 30's. She hit 36 or 37, lost her mind and eventually became unrecognizable from the young girl they fell in love with and married...

So, to all of you men out there considering marriage, let this be a cautionary tale to you: Make sure you totally understand the massive risk you are assuming to your life and your finances by entering into a marriage contract between you, a woman, and the state...

Sorry to hear about this. I only have one question though: Were there no signs whatsoever that there might be trouble down the line before you got married?

I realise that marriage is an enormous risk to take for a man but I still believe that marriage can work if you choose wisely. I just wonder if you might have overlooked some glaringly obvious signs that this woman might not be what you thought?

 

[Epimanes]

I can tell you why your marriage failed.

1. You stopped spending quality time together and/or didnt MAKE quality time together and put kids/job/independant behaviours in a position of priority over your marriage

2. You stopped meeting each others emotional needs. Especially the intimate ones that create romantic love. (intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment,affection (non sexual), recreational companionship,) Usually the top 5 needs of a woman are the opposite of the top 5 needs of a man. No wonder we have a hard time getting along huh?)

3. You both were in a state of withdrawl after BOTH of you contributed to the neglect of your marriage (weither it be work .. kids ... whatever) and neither one of you could put your pride away and lead the other back into conflict and then into intimacy again. (FYI .. there is 3 states of mind in marriage Intimacy, conflict and withdrawl when one spouse is in withdrawl the other usually tries to draw them back into intimacy by bringing you both into conflict to try and resolve the issues and most likely during those times you guys made such large love bank withdrawls from each other that you drained your love away and didn't protect the marriage and couldnt exit from conflict and back into intimacy again).

Just my 2c

Epi

 

[backbreaker]

I can tell you why your marriage failed.

1. You stopped spending quality time together and/or didnt MAKE quality time together and put kids/job/independant behaviours in a position of priority over your marriage

2. You stopped meeting each others emotional needs. Especially the intimate ones that create romantic love. (intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment,affection (non sexual), recreational companionship,) Usually the top 5 needs of a woman are the opposite of the top 5 needs of a man. No wonder we have a hard time getting along huh?)

3. You both were in a state of withdrawl after BOTH of you contributed to the neglect of your marriage (weither it be work .. kids ... whatever) and neither one of you could put your pride away and lead the other back into conflict and then into intimacy again. (FYI .. there is 3 states of mind in marriage Intimacy, conflict and withdrawl when one spouse is in withdrawl the other usually tries to draw them back into intimacy by bringing you both into conflict to try and resolve the issues and most likely during those times you guys made such large love bank withdrawls from each other that you drained your love away and didn't protect the marriage and couldnt exit from conflict and back into intimacy again).

Just my 2c

Epi

oh my. what could I possibly do to learn how to meet my wife's needs. If only there was a program out there to help guys build successful marriages..

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

To all:

Thanks for the kind words. I think those of us who have been through the marriage and divorce grinder have a moral obligation to at least try to educate other men about what they are potentially facing. I wish that some older guy had pulled me aside and schooled me before I put my life at the mercy of a woman and
the state.

If it helps even one young man to stop and think before he pulls the trigger on a decision that could haunt him for the rest of his life, it was worth it
to post this.

As for me, one marriage was more than enough. I see absolutely no reason to ever get married again.

I'm even reluctant to consider ever living with a woman again. So much is driven by their emotions and biology. You just get to a point where you don't want to deal with the drama and BS.

And believe me, that 20 year old you meet may bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever (mentally and physically) to the 40 year old that she will eventually turn into.

I've learned a great deal by reading this forum and other strong voices (Rollo, Roosh, Private man, etc. ). I owe them a debt of gratitude. All of us
should do our best to help educate other guys to the realities of the world we live in today.

On the up side, I've got a girlfriend who's 15 years younger and very hot. And if it doesn't work with her, I'll go find another one. I've learned that there will always be a woman waiting...

To SteR,

In retrospect, yes there were.

Knowing what I know now, I would never have married her. Unfortunately, I was very inexperienced and naive about women when I got married (age 24). I was way too young and inexperienced.

I also made the mistake of thinking that other people (including her) had a philosophy similar to mine. That being:

Continuous improvement and growth (she was not interesting in growing and improving)
Recognize errors that you have made, learn from them, and make changes to become a better person (she refused to admit when she had made a mistake)
Recognize your own emotional issues and take appropriate action to become more of the type of person you want to be.

She, however, had only one mechanism of coping with an issue: ignore it or deny it. And while this is a powerful tool, it only works for so long.
And over time, her issues and problems not only weren't dealt with and solved, they became magnified and they metastasized into a a cancer that affected her and the people around her.


To Epimanes,

Do you heal the sick and walk on water in your spare time?

Both your agenda and your hubris are on public display...

 

[Epimanes]

Haha no. I am just sharing useful advice that helped me. The things I said can and do happen pretty much to every marriage at some point. Heck I have come close to divorce myself a few times but have managed to figure out how to stop those crazy cycles. I dunno maybe I just got lucky with my lady too. I agree that sometimes in certain cases ppl are just to self centered to be married and are better off single. 'Shrugs'. But hey its just my opinion. Lol

 

[Burroughs]

Augustus this quote from roosh might help you

"Grab a random man off an American street. Take away the penis, broad shoulders, and body hair. Add breasts, a crotch hole stingy with its lubrication, and a tendency for inane chatter that is insignificant to all forms of life two minutes after it’s uttered. You have an American woman. I’m not attempting to be funny: I sincerely cannot feel the difference between the men and women of this country once you take away the clothing and hair. Men look and act like fags while women act like men of yesterday, all to make a lot of money in an office park that contains a Starbucks. If you draw a venn diagram of both genders the circles might as well completely overlap. My expectations with women here are so low that going out with one is like spending time with my 7-year-old brother: as long as she doesn’t piss her pants and embarrass me in public, the date was a great success.

The man who doesn’t mind American women is cold and disconnected himself, hopelessly confused about his masculinity and his place in the world. I’d be an easy cheap shot for me to say “they deserve each other,” but the truth is no one else wants them. If a Brazilian man couldn’t **** an American girl, he wouldn’t spend a minute with her on a beach in Rio while educating her about his culture. If a Russian girl couldn’t get a greencard from an American man, she’d rather put up with the alcoholic trolls dying off like flies in her own country than swallow her pride and post a dating profile on the internet.

An American man mating with his own kind reminds of when I saw two stray dogs having sex on a South American beach. The male had a little bicycle tire stuck around his neck which was attached to a long rope that trailed behind him (put there by some teenager I imagine), while the female was a nasty little thing infested with boils that finally let the male mount her next to a heap of trash. Locals and tourists were laughing at the scene, rushing to grab their cameras to take pictures. The dogs finished their business oblivious to the mocking.

One day later and the tire and rope was still attached to the male. I’m certain he died with it. The American man is not as helpless—he is free to remove the tire and rope, but decades of brainwashing have led him to believe that a ****ing tire around his neck is the way things should be and that there is no alternative. Like the feral dog, he will fade into oblivion unaware that people are laughing at him when he copulates with the man-beast he calls a woman, or worse, a wife."

 

[Colossus]

No amount of screening can save you from the machine, and it is exactly that machine that pushes me to educate others on what they are up against. Educating others and spreading knowledge where appropriate is the only hope that exists.

Truer words...

 

[speed dawg]

Well, I'm married with kids and we're over 30. I guess I'm wondering where it's going to go south? My wife stays home as well (works a little on the side).

Ever since I internalized Game, I really don't have many problems. But I make a conscious effort to live Game every day of my life. I know if I let up, my marriage probably will to. I dictate our finances. My wife knows once the kids are in school she's working again. There are flare-ups every now and again for sure where I have to preserve the order of things.

I'd like to hear more about your actual relationship Augustus. I know there were red flags somewhere, these things don't go down overnight. Good thing for me is, I'm the ******* and the one that's hard to live with, not my wife. Honestly I wouldn't blame her if she left me sometimes.

 

[Epimanes]

Speed .. i totally get what your saying man. I have to game my wife too (along with some beta tactics). If my emotional state is down .. it seems to drag everyone down. It seems like no one has the ability to help me out of the "funk" if i manage to get myself into it... i have to find my own way out. But if i am gaming my wife ... everything is fine mostly.

So really .. my emotional state controls the emotional state of the entire household, kids and all.

@ Augustus. I am truely sorry for your pain.

@ mauser .. i did use the word YOU a fair bit. MY bad .. i thought that by adding in the "each other" part it would be clear that i intended to imply that it was BOTH. The fact of the matter is ... the condition of a marriage is 50/50 and if one person refuses to clean their side of the street or even consider that they are contributing to the unhappiness then they are delusional and their issues they had will happen again unless each person cleans their own side of the street. The Marriage Builders shyt i been posting also helped get my wifes head out of her ass too ... it helped her see her side of the street and how dirty and cluttered it really was instead of just focusing on my side.

Its just really sad to see divorces when they could have been prevented in many cases becasue its mostly due to unmet emotional needs, pride and lack of quality time together as a couple.

 

[zekko]

Thanks for the msg mcrae.. Isn't it crazy how a marriage can do so well for so long only for it to break up so suddenly and intensely like yours did? This is what surprises me most about failed marriages, that they're so good for so long and then suddenly the breakup hits you like a train out of nowhere.

Life is short, but it's also long. The thing is, people change, slowly over time. What once was fresh and exciting gets old and comfortable and worn out. Then one day one of you meets somebody that makes you feel young again, like you haven't felt for a long time. All the freshness and excitement of a potential new relationship. And a woman especially can get swept up in all this emotion and are willing to trade what is old and routine for what is new and exciting.

No amount of screening can save you from the machine, and it is exactly that machine that pushes me to educate others on what they are up against.

I agree with you, because like you say the woman you divorce is never the woman you married (see my above paragraph).
But in my case, I do think that the screening helped somewhat. If it had really worked, she never would have divorced me. But I tried to marry a decent girl, and I think it paid some dividends for me.

My wife's lawyer wanted to really rake me over the coals. But my wife, rather than fight a long extended battle, just wanted to get it over with, so she accepted the settlement offer I gave her. I also think she knew my offer was fair, and that I didn't deserve the reaming her lawyer wanted to give me. So to that extent the fact that I screened for a "nice girl" helped out, at least a little.

 

[BeDJ]

Life is short, but it's also long. The thing is, people change, slowly over time. What once was fresh and exciting gets old and comfortable and worn out. Then one day one of you meets somebody that makes you feel young again, like you haven't felt for a long time. All the freshness and excitement of a potential new relationship. And a woman especially can get swept up in all this emotion and are willing to trade what is old and routine for what is new and exciting.

My nomination for QoTY

 

[LiveFreeX]

An American man mating with his own kind reminds of when I saw two stray dogs having sex on a South American beach. The male had a little bicycle tire stuck around his neck which was attached to a long rope that trailed behind him (put there by some teenager I imagine), while the female was a nasty little thing infested with boils that finally let the male mount her next to a heap of trash. Locals and tourists were laughing at the scene, rushing to grab their cameras to take pictures. The dogs finished their business oblivious to the mocking.

Excellent burroughs, I never read that on rooshes site. Yeah, anyway, the OP married an american woman. So he's completely within his rights to caution everyone against american marriage. I think almost everyone knows at this point, marriage is a crap deal to american women and their westernized sisters. That said, marriage to a foreign woman can be quite rewarding, a friend here has been with his wife 15 years and they will likely die together. My uncle's second wife was a chinese and they've also been together something like 15 years now without any issues whatsoever. Chinese women are by and large submissive women. Some guys think of it as anti-challenge, get bored and go for the sassier princess types but I think that is largely due to the american brainwashing.

I picked a girl who is about a 3/10 (game wise), virgin at 23, born into poverty and raised by the military state schools. Never owned anything and spent her life working to take care of her mother and brother. If you pick a typical university grad who drinks starbucks for breakfast and red wine at night you are looking at a bad investment who is going to fault you for not providing that lifestyle+++.

Better advice would be, wait until you are in your 30s, educated, money in the bank and self sufficent. Go abroad, date lots of women and make an educated decision about picking your wife. I look at it like a business investment, what is my ROI on the deal? Most guys pick and choose out of 'love'...thats a terrible way to do business, when the love is gone so is the business and you are forever bound by your emotions. I would thank my wife if she left me, the abundance of hot young ready to go women more than makes up for it. The best thing about marrying abroad is you can escape to go back abroad and no one can find you, therefore she is always living under the gun.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Speed Dawg,

Red Flags? Yes, there were some. Some didn't come out until later, and some of them I was too young and inexperienced to realize.

As I said, initially she was very sweet, loving and helpful. In addition, She was good to my family. Our house even became the focal point for all the Holidays. She was a good cook and would throw nice family dinners and parties.

However, what I realized in later years was that her motives for doing things, even good things, were quite frequently out of sync with the action itself, if that makes sense. In other words, even when she did something good, or on the surface appeared to be good, it was usually for a selfish, self serving reason. But that didn't come out until deeper in the marriage (after our kids were born). And as any parent knows, once you have kids, that changes everything.

She was a master at telling half truths and twisting facts.

She was a bit too "needy" and, again, I was too young to see this as a red flag and I was all too willing to help out and "rescue" her.

Too many "crises" and too much drama. Again, I was too young and foolish to recognize this.

Another mistake I made was in thinking I could "help her" with some of her issues once they appeared.

So, on my part, in many cases, with good intentions and trying to be a "nice, good guy", I only screwed myself.

My nature is to handle issues and fix problems as they arise and to be helpful. Unwittingly, I was all too willing to handle everything because I was capable of doing it and I thought that you gave 100% in a marriage. But very gradually (over such a long time, it was hard to see), she grew entitled, she thought she deserved what "we" had achieved through my blood, sweat and tears.

And as I mentioned before, something changed in this woman in her late 30's. By that time we had been married 15+ years and already had children.
She became this angry, moody, irrational individual that I no longer recognized. And I know that my experience isn't unique, it has happened to several of my friends. If you're married and you're fortunate enough to have picked the right woman, it won't happen to you. But I know that the percentage of women it happens to is large enough to not be just a fluke.

As for me, I keep a positive attitude these days and focus on what's good in my life. I've got some good years ahead of me and I intend to make the most of them.I have a good relationship with my kids and I know that I did the right thing for them by sticking it out.

I have a couple of really good friends who helped me through all of it. It makes a huge difference to have true friends you can lean on. Through the years we have helped each other out. These guys know I have their backs and they have mine. Worth it's weight in gold...

I have a beautiful girlfriend and we have a great time together. However, I will never put my life and my finances at the mercy of a woman and the state again...

 

[Burroughs]

Speed Dawg,


And as I mentioned before, something changed in this woman in her late 30's. By that time we had been married 15+ years and already had children.
She became this angry, moody, irrational individual that I no longer recognized. And I know that my experience isn't unique, it has happened to several of my friends. If you're married and you're fortunate enough to have picked the right woman, it won't happen to you. But I know that the percentage of women it happens to is large enough to not be just a fluke.
.

No it is not a fluke

what happens is that women in their 30s realize once and for all that the fantasy disney life they dreamt of as a kid is never, ever, ever, going to happen.....of course the women have done nothing active to bring this life about but that would be too logical for women to comprehend

so women do what women always do when confronted with obstacles they get SAD AND ANGRY at the same time....then the blame game starts...and thats where the husband is royally fvcked

all he has tried to do is provide his bitter, aging, cvntmeat of a wife a better life to the best of his abilities and for that he is vilified....and the man is usually too blind to comprehend that his wife is mentally gone, she has flipped her wig, gone nutty and she ain't coming back

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I have not read the depth of the posts to this thread, so forgive my response in that regard if it is repeated. But in all due respect to the OP, I question your real message here. It sounds like to me you didn't gain much experience early on and as such got routed into marriage. I do know not every man and woman married did so at an early age out of 'social pressures'. I think in some ways that is a message this website tries to dethread, is that truly, you ought to marry for a myriad of reasons if you choose to do so, and her character and your experience and place in life are huge variables in that equation.

With all due respect I hope to marry some day. But I hope to get a lot more experience between then and now, with STRs and LTRs and really better understand women, sexuality and my relationship and wants to each of them. Additionally, I am trying to focus on building a happy life in terms of career and having what I need and want for myself. If I can get there prior to entering marriage, I think there is a lot greater chance of success as I am content or happy with my life, have seen and done some things, I'm not a 20 year old wet behind the ears out of college getting hitched and hopping into fatherhood.

That being said I am not knocking your journey or trying to discredit the pain you have experienced. I honestly may have married my first LTR in college if I hadn't been dumped...a very painful experience then has spared me in some ways being a father of two by now...I have many friends who have not been spared...maybe there is a higher force??

[edit] What I am really trying to say is I feel your pain and I hear your message. I am trying to gain experience + get my life in order before considering marriage..and I hope to find a woman with strong character..but this site teaches that comes through the process of pain and weeding out the many whom don't have that character...I am not there and have much much work ahead of me.[/edit]

I feel for you brother!