Your post-date behaviour that works or fails?

[GotED?]

Without having read this content, I would have talked about a second date at the end of the night and then sent her a text this morning saying I had fun with her.

This is a good rule of thumb I operate personally as well, my game is roughly this during/after the 1st date:

- never mention if I enjoyed her on the date

- never mention about future engagements

- never text her afterwards that I had a good time

- my mind is fixed on enjoying MYSELF as she is there to qualify to me

- I dish out one or two compliments about her (1 physical, 1 internal)

- I focus on charm (humor) and non-verbal communications (strong eye contact and good listening skills 80/20)

- never try to kiss her or even hold her hands. Yes, I will get a lot of flack about this, but per the previous posts - I am 6'2" tall and considered intimidating (as been told by women in the past), so I have to PLAY down my perceived 'Player' like outer appearance. I don't even try to kiss a woman until I know I LIKE HER (LOL!) - sometimes this take over 3 dates. Meanwhile I make her qualify herself to me (and she knows it too because I am holding back physical contact) because I tell her I don't do physical until I know she's someone I want to invest and move forward in. This usually drive the woman crazy (sexual tension build up) and at the same time, PROVE to her that I AM NOT A PLAYER. This initially does confused most of the women, because they are used to aggressive men wanting to score. But in the end, it works in my favor, because they are totally comfortable with me because I don't try to force myself physically on them. This is just what WORKS for me, and remember that I am not into ONS or short term fling, so my strategy accomodates for LTR instead.

Now a lot of men here are under the impression that if you don't PHUCK her on the first date, you are in the FRIENDZONE. Be careful, this only applies if you have to WORK to make a woman attracted to you. If you are a decent/good looking guy that's somewhat intimidating in appearance to women - REVERSE this scenario now: If you are dating an HB7 or HB8 - if she holds out on kissing you or holding your hands after the first couple of dates are you SERIOUSLY going to FRIENDZONE her?? No way - you would just be more hot and bothered, if not even more - wanting her. Also, QUALITY women would NEVER let you phuck her on the first date - so different strategy for different men.

I base my philosophy that if a woman IS sexually attracted to you and your run your game tight and perfect, you will NOT be FRIENDZONED. I don't even let that worry me - but again, this can not apply to all men - only if you can pull women easily and naturally without much resistance.

AFTER THE DATE:

I usually ALWAYS get a text within 36 hours if not immediately afterwards from the woman telling me she had a great time. I would just return the reply politely and make it short, still not saying anything at all about future engagements.

I then ASSESS how I feel about her for the next few days, I usually end up NEXTing 80% of the women after the first date because CHEMISTRY is something very hard to find and I won't settle just because a woman is hot. That doesn't do it for me at my age - there must be SUBSTANCE in a woman on top of her physical attractiveness.

If I really like a woman after the 2nd date, I want to see her WORK a bit - I will wait for up to 5 days to see if she contacts me and SHOWS INTEREST on her part. After the 2nd date, she's got to start putting in her share of the EFFORT in wanting to see me. This is when the woman should START THE CHASE and the man sit back and enjoy the ride - if not, she is still trying to contest your FRAME. I only want to spend my energy on women with 100% HIGH INTEREST - these are ways for me to determine if she's worth my time or not.

A good LTR is really hard to find - even if you make it to the 3rd date, there's still sh!t load of mind games she's bound to pile upon your mind phucking. As discussed in earlier posts, getting past a QUALITY woman's FEAR OF GETTING HURT is very difficult for a man she PERCEIVES to be out of her league (player like appearance and charm but quality man inside).

Learn to NEXT as early as you can so you don't waste time on low quality women, or women who gets 'CONFUSED' - let them sort out their own pain.

Good Luck.

Exodus

 

[VikingKing]

I tend to agree with this statement too for my previous partner who was French. She actually told me I wasn't her 'TYPE' at the end of the first date even though I was reading ALL her actions as very high interest. I NEXTED her on the spot and told her good luck with her bullsh!t rejection and told her I know how to read women and I know she's into me but she will now have to think about it and regret it for the rest of her life playing games with me.

This was a Friday - I went NC and put her to rest in my mind (it wasn't easy, because I liked her quite a bit and it was tough). By Monday, I got a text from her asking me out on a 2nd date and was very apologetic.

Many months later she told me how terrified she was of getting hurt, and was CRYING THE ENTIRE WEEKEND ABOUT ME!! LOL..... Women seems to have all type of serious B!TCH SHIELD that keeps them single, especially the more high quality and innocent women (she was quite innocent). I don't think the experienced party girls or HOs would react like this - they would know exactly how to play their game and screw you behind your back later.

So I would go with what your EX told you - when you FEEL and READ the woman in question and her ACTIONS speaks high interest in person, she is probably terrified of LOSING CONTROL (women hate that! LOL) because she is falling for you and is trying to pull back her emotions/feelings for you. This results in a sudden display of hot & cold response to you that makes no sense at all.

I would STILL NEXT this type of woman - ain't nothing going to penetrate that hard of a B!TCH SHIELD unless she's realize what she's lost and phucked up on. I don't think a man can convince a woman in that state of fear of getting hurt to be with him at any cost - it would come across as AFC in the end. Life's a gamble - so are women's heart that she gives to a man.

Be well.

Exodus

Foreign women are fun, and interesting.

 

[Jariel]

Well, I've tried the minimal texting response after the date and unfortunately it seems to have backfired.

I contacted one girl 2 days after the date and just asked directly if she wanted to meet this week. She accepted and said she'd let me know what days she's free. I haven't heard from her since.

The other girl I waited 1 day and did the same. She accepted and we exchanged a couple of texts, but she has withdrew contact too and not got back to me about the second date.

Both showed sky high interest before and during the date. The first even text me as soon as we parted ways and called me the same night. It's hard to believe they just lost interest so quickly when they were talking about future dates and using phrases like "if things work out between us" and just generally giving me all positive vibes.

I'm just wondering if I came across as too aloof in asking directly for the date and not continuing to text and make small talk like we had done before the date.

 

[Jariel]

I know what you're saying Espi and I think I need to start looking at it not like I'm doing something wrong or there's something wrong with me, but that these girls just aren't available for one reason or another. Like you say, nothing works 100% of the time. Sometimes I've played aloof and they're crazy for me, then other times I've literally poured my feelings out to a girl and won her over.

I guess I'll just keep spinning plates until something clicks.

 

[Jariel]

Sounds very much like me there Espi. Before my ex and since my ex, I've been dating 2-3 girls a week and have about 10 plates spinning at the moment. I'm having quite a lot of luck meeting women on Tinder, getting numbers and setting up dates, and not many flakes.

I'd say most of the dates I've had don't really engage me. Some I would like to just fvck, but they're usually the ones who won't put out on the first dates and are very defensive, so I cut them loose. It's too much trouble and not fair on them to lead them on just for a lay. It's quite rare that I meet someone I consider girlfriend material - specifically just 3 women since September. These are the ones I'm having the difficulties with really, whereas I pretty much have a collection of groupies from girls I dated previously and put on the backburner.

Maybe I'm just putting too much focus on my "failures" because they're the ones I most care about.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

First off, THIS:

This is a good rule of thumb I operate personally as well, my game is roughly this during/after the 1st date:

- never mention if I enjoyed her on the date

- never mention about future engagements

- never text her afterwards that I had a good time

- my mind is fixed on enjoying MYSELF as she is there to qualify to me

- I dish out one or two compliments about her (1 physical, 1 internal)

- I focus on charm (humor) and non-verbal communications (strong eye contact and good listening skills 80/20)

- never try to kiss her or even hold her hands. Yes, I will get a lot of flack about this, but per the previous posts - I am 6'2" tall and considered intimidating (as been told by women in the past), so I have to PLAY down my perceived 'Player' like outer appearance. I don't even try to kiss a woman until I know I LIKE HER (LOL!) - sometimes this take over 3 dates. Meanwhile I make her qualify herself to me (and she knows it too because I am holding back physical contact) because I tell her I don't do physical until I know she's someone I want to invest and move forward in. This usually drive the woman crazy (sexual tension build up) and at the same time, PROVE to her that I AM NOT A PLAYER. This initially does confused most of the women, because they are used to aggressive men wanting to score. But in the end, it works in my favor, because they are totally comfortable with me because I don't try to force myself physically on them. This is just what WORKS for me, and remember that I am not into ONS or short term fling, so my strategy accomodates for LTR instead...

AFTER THE DATE:

I usually ALWAYS get a text within 36 hours if not immediately afterwards from the woman telling me she had a great time. I would just return the reply politely and make it short, still not saying anything at all about future engagements.

I then ASSESS how I feel about her for the next few days, I usually end up NEXTing 80% of the women after the first date because CHEMISTRY is something very hard to find and I won't settle just because a woman is hot. That doesn't do it for me at my age - there must be SUBSTANCE in a woman on top of her physical attractiveness.

If I really like a woman after the 2nd date, I want to see her WORK a bit - I will wait for up to 5 days to see if she contacts me and SHOWS INTEREST on her part. After the 2nd date, she's got to start putting in her share of the EFFORT in wanting to see me. This is when the woman should START THE CHASE and the man sit back and enjoy the ride - if not, she is still trying to contest your FRAME. I only want to spend my energy on women with 100% HIGH INTEREST - these are ways for me to determine if she's worth my time or not.

A good LTR is really hard to find - even if you make it to the 3rd date, there's still sh!t load of mind games she's bound to pile upon your mind phucking. As discussed in earlier posts, getting past a QUALITY woman's FEAR OF GETTING HURT is very difficult for a man she PERCEIVES to be out of her league (player like appearance and charm but quality man inside).

Learn to NEXT as early as you can so you don't waste time on low quality women, or women who gets 'CONFUSED' - let them sort out their own pain.

Good Luck.

Exodus

...is gold. (And btw, GotEd, if you ever wanna be a guest on the podcast, send me a message - we agree on a LOT of points)

In addition: to the OP, you mentioned in the first post that:

I've never believed in the whole "no texting before a date" rules or "you must call her only to make a date" because that's never worked for me. In my experience, girls like to get to know a guy and feel rapport before they meet and through texting, I've been able to raise their interest to the point where they're infatuated and already see me as their boyfriend or escalate sexually so that we end up fvcking within an hour or two into our date.

Believe it or not, though, this is a HUGE problem that's messing with your game. One of the things women look for very early on is consistency with a man's actions. What you're trying to do is text them a whole lot before the date, then tone it down afterwards. It shows inconsistency, which will make these women start to wonder if they're being played - like, "he was hitting me up so much before, now he's not. He must have found other girls to talk to."

Now me, I'm one of those guys who believes that excessive texting KILLS relationships early on. Guys have been lied to by thinking they need to be in extra communication with a woman before she agrees to meet them, when the opposite is actually true: the LESS she knows about you beforehand, the more likely she is to want to meet up with you so she can learn MORE. Most guys don't believe this is true because they're trying to get a girl to go back to their place on a first date - BUT, if you're trying to meet her for the first time in a public place, I have literally called up women I've just gotten numbers from, or met at a party and messaged on facebook, with a simple "Hey," followed by "I'd like to take you out." No getting to know them beforehand, no spending days on end texting, just a simple request to meet with them in a public place to get to know them better.

And my percentage of "yes" answers is much higher doing it that way than it ever was when I was doing it the way you're currently doing it.

So, you're "post-date" behavior isn't the only problem - you also need to look at your "pre-date" and "during-date" behavior. GotED already covered a lot of points, so I'll be brief on mine:

PRE-DATE BEHAVIOR

1. Call her up (messaging is weak)

2. Ask her out on a date for a specific place/time already picked out (give her the choice of two times - psychologically, it makes her have to choose one of them, which ultimately means she has to choose a time to say YES to you, which will lower the number of NO's or "I'll get back to you later's" you'd normally get)

3. Don't talk to her again until the date. No messaging either. We WANT her to wonder if you're going to show up, and chances are she'll call YOU to when you haven't reconfrimed with her to see if the date's still happening. Or she'll just show up when she's supposed to. Either way, you re-confirming with her or trying to be chatty to build up interest before the date is NOT necessary - leave the building of interest for when you're on the ACTUAL date.

DURING-THE-DATE

1. Follow GotEd's list of not touching, no future talking, etc.

2. In addition, I tend to tell girls at some point that I'm not really much of a phone guy (which is true), and that I only tend to use it for business or making plans. That way, I'M ALREADY SETTING UP THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR FROM ME A WHOLE LOT VIA MESSAGING OR RANDOM CALLS. It also makes them feel special when I DO call them since they know it means I'm doing it to plan something to do with them.

POST-DATE

1. Wait x-amount of days to hit them up for the next date. Depending on what you feel comfortable with this amount of time will vary. Me, I wait a minimum of 4 days. Why? Most women assume if a guy hasn't hit them up by day 3 that he's not interested, and that he's gotten over them. It's a bit of a bruise to their ego, and they're trying to figure out what it is they did that caused you not to call. So, when you hit them up on day 4, they're usually so happy to have heard from you (and that they're still in the game) that they're willing to do a lot more on the 2nd date to make sure you stay around... including (a) sleeping with you, (b) paying for things, and (c) mentioning future date ideas (which, of course, you don't want to agree to since you never want her to have the feeling that you've already made up your mind about her in those first few dates).

2. If you wait at least 4 days, I have found the really high-interested ones will hit u up by day 2 for some random reason. Do you respond back? Yes, but keep it short, and since she's hitting you up you could also mention another date, but have it be at least 5 to 7 days out. Like, if she hits you up 2 days after a Monday date, say "hey, btw, what are you doing next Wednesday? I was thinking we could do..." If she agrees to it, great - set the date and time, then don't talk to her again until the day of the date.

3. Most importantly, ALWAYS ASSUME SHE WILL SHOW UP FOR THE DAY AND TIME OF THE DATE. Weak men re-confirm; strong men assume she wants them and will show up when she says she'll show up. Funny enough, for most of the dates I go on, the WOMEN are the ones hitting me up to remind me of the date I set up to see if I'm still going to show up - I haven't had a girl flake on me in 3 years, people, and I NEVER call them the day of to remind them either!

"But what if she doesn't show up," you ask? Then she wasn't interested and she's not worth your time. Think about it: women rarely forget about being on time to work, family functions, or anything else they REALLY want to go to. Something as important as seeing someone who could be the love of their life? Definitely something they'll remember... UNLESS THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED.

Hope this helps!

 

[Valentino14]

First off, THIS:



...is gold. (And btw, GotEd, if you ever wanna be a guest on the podcast, send me a message - we agree on a LOT of points)

In addition: to the OP, you mentioned in the first post that:



Believe it or not, though, this is a HUGE problem that's messing with your game. One of the things women look for very early on is consistency with a man's actions. What you're trying to do is text them a whole lot before the date, then tone it down afterwards. It shows inconsistency, which will make these women start to wonder if they're being played - like, "he was hitting me up so much before, now he's not. He must have found other girls to talk to."

Now me, I'm one of those guys who believes that excessive texting KILLS relationships early on. Guys have been lied to by thinking they need to be in extra communication with a woman before she agrees to meet them, when the opposite is actually true: the LESS she knows about you beforehand, the more likely she is to want to meet up with you so she can learn MORE. Most guys don't believe this is true because they're trying to get a girl to go back to their place on a first date - BUT, if you're trying to meet her for the first time in a public place, I have literally called up women I've just gotten numbers from, or met at a party and messaged on facebook, with a simple "Hey," followed by "I'd like to take you out." No getting to know them beforehand, no spending days on end texting, just a simple request to meet with them in a public place to get to know them better.

And my percentage of "yes" answers is much higher doing it that way than it ever was when I was doing it the way you're currently doing it.

So, you're "post-date" behavior isn't the only problem - you also need to look at your "pre-date" and "during-date" behavior. GotED already covered a lot of points, so I'll be brief on mine:

PRE-DATE BEHAVIOR

1. Call her up (messaging is weak)

2. Ask her out on a date for a specific place/time already picked out (give her the choice of two times - psychologically, it makes her have to choose one of them, which ultimately means she has to choose a time to say YES to you, which will lower the number of NO's or "I'll get back to you later's" you'd normally get)

3. Don't talk to her again until the date. No messaging either. We WANT her to wonder if you're going to show up, and chances are she'll call YOU to when you haven't reconfrimed with her to see if the date's still happening. Or she'll just show up when she's supposed to. Either way, you re-confirming with her or trying to be chatty to build up interest before the date is NOT necessary - leave the building of interest for when you're on the ACTUAL date.

DURING-THE-DATE

1. Follow GotEd's list of not touching, no future talking, etc.

2. In addition, I tend to tell girls at some point that I'm not really much of a phone guy (which is true), and that I only tend to use it for business or making plans. That way, I'M ALREADY SETTING UP THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR FROM ME A WHOLE LOT VIA MESSAGING OR RANDOM CALLS. It also makes them feel special when I DO call them since they know it means I'm doing it to plan something to do with them.

POST-DATE

1. Wait x-amount of days to hit them up for the next date. Depending on what you feel comfortable with this amount of time will vary. Me, I wait a minimum of 4 days. Why? Most women assume if a guy hasn't hit them up by day 3 that he's not interested, and that he's gotten over them. It's a bit of a bruise to their ego, and they're trying to figure out what it is they did that caused you not to call. So, when you hit them up on day 4, they're usually so happy to have heard from you (and that they're still in the game) that they're willing to do a lot more on the 2nd date to make sure you stay around... including (a) sleeping with you, (b) paying for things, and (c) mentioning future date ideas (which, of course, you don't want to agree to since you never want her to have the feeling that you've already made up your mind about her in those first few dates).

2. If you wait at least 4 days, I have found the really high-interested ones will hit u up by day 2 for some random reason. Do you respond back? Yes, but keep it short, and since she's hitting you up you could also mention another date, but have it be at least 5 to 7 days out. Like, if she hits you up 2 days after a Monday date, say "hey, btw, what are you doing next Wednesday? I was thinking we could do..." If she agrees to it, great - set the date and time, then don't talk to her again until the day of the date.

3. Most importantly, ALWAYS ASSUME SHE WILL SHOW UP FOR THE DAY AND TIME OF THE DATE. Weak men re-confirm; strong men assume she wants them and will show up when she says she'll show up. Funny enough, for most of the dates I go on, the WOMEN are the ones hitting me up to remind me of the date I set up to see if I'm still going to show up - I haven't had a girl flake on me in 3 years, people, and I NEVER call them the day of to remind them either!

"But what if she doesn't show up," you ask? Then she wasn't interested and she's not worth your time. Think about it: women rarely forget about being on time to work, family functions, or anything else they REALLY want to go to. Something as important as seeing someone who could be the love of their life? Definitely something they'll remember... UNLESS THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED.

Hope this helps!

This is lame, it doesn't matter how many days you wait to hit her up. She is only going to go out with you if she has the intentions to go out. Same thing goes for calling setting up the dates etc. if she has no intentions of going out your calls won't matter and she will make herself busy on those days. always know for sure beforehand so you don't get stuck wondering about the date.

 

[Jariel]

Harry: A lot of the advice you give here is very similar to what I've read in textbooks, but in my own experience you just can't make a date with a woman and expect her to show up a few days to a week later. In this day and age, or at least from my experience, if you don't contact her to confirm, or if you just don't maintain contact leading to the date, she'll just assume you're not interested or you've flaked and you won't turn up.

The way I see it, a text is a simple and quick way to confirm a date, so there is no reason why one of you shouldn't do it. And if texting to confirm a date will kill her attraction, then there had to be very little to no attraction there in the first place.

I do agree that excessive texting can be a big detriment, but refraining from texting altogether seems too defensive and insecure. Besides, when I look back at my ex girlfriends, there was always a lot of texting between us before dating. My last ex would write texts upto 5 pages long and a previous ex I remember being awake til 3am texting back and forth.

When it starts to become needy and offputting is when it's not being reciprocated, or you're writing more or texting more frequently than she is.

However, what you said about my inconsistency makes a lot of sense and my sudden change in behaviour may just appear that I've suddenly lost interest or I'm purposely playing games.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

A few things:

1. You keep mentioning how you used to do this or that with your exes... but they're just that, EXES. And, based on your OP, my guess is they dumped you at some point because of various reasons, including your behavior and/or methods of trying to attract them. So, to say that you used to do certain things with previous girls is irrelevant because they got rid of you, which means what you were doing wasn't working. As for me, I haven't been dumped in 3 years - any exes I have were the result of ME getting rid of THEM, not the other way around, and most of them would still try to contact me later to get reacquainted.

2. The reason you're not experienced in making a date and her not keeping it is because (a) you're not confident enough to make it work, and (b) the women didn't have a high level of interest in you. I kid you not, I never, EVER re-confirm anymore - in MY experience, doing that would more often than not result in them changing their minds. It's not about the text killing their attraction; it's about the LACK OF CONFIDENCE and DESPERATION that's being felt by her through the text. I kid you not, I've been able (many times) to hit a girl up and set a date up for 2 weeks later, and not have to talk to her until the date. And guess what? She shows up! Why? High interest + confidence on my part.

3. I'm not quite getting the logic behind how not texting makes you seem insecure. At any rate, you're doing a bunch of texting to these girls and they're not staying with you, soooooo.... and this is not to say that texting is the only thing you're doing that's causing these women to dump you. But again, part of building attraction is not giving away so much of yourself. The more you're texting her, the more she's getting the idea that (a) you don't have much going on, (b) she's currently the only option you have, and (c) you're depending on attention from her for your happiness. NONE OF THESE IMPRESSIONS SHOULD BE GETTING MADE DURING THE FIRST 3 MONTHS OF DATING HER.

Now, once you actually become the boyfriend... I still wouldn't be initiating most of the texting, but at least by then she's agreed to be yours and you're in a relationship so it's more understandable. But, for those first 3 months, texting should be as limited as possible - you use it to set up a date or see her in person to do your talking, and on days when you don't see her you leave it alone.

And I'm already hearing the question, so I'll just address it:

"But women really like texting, and they'll get mad if I don't contact them or message them back when..."

Look, we're not here to cater to women or do the things they ASSUME will make them attracted to you - we're here to find out what WORKS to catch them. You can text them night and day all you want like all the other orbiters they have, but they are NOT going to stay around if you end up being one of their text buddies. It essentially makes you like one of their girlfriends. For all the texting you're doing right now, it's not benefiting you. And I need not convince you of that 'cause your results show it. This isn't meant to be harsh in any way - I'm telling you this from experience. All I know is that the less texting I've done in the beginning, the quicker I was able to get women to date me/sleep with me/become the girlfriend, etc., and the more texting I did the worse I was at this whole dating thing. People on here will talk to you about text game, or why you should become better at it. The only REAL text game is: send her a message to ask her out, then go out with her. Save all the flirtatious/getting to know you/witty jokes, etc. for when you see her in-person.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Harry. Especially in the case of online game, I have found it absolutely increases your chances of her not flaking and having easy first date sex if you establish a good chemistry with her via text before you ever meet. I know you have a crusade against texting and think what I just said isn’t possible – but you’re going to have to trust someone who’s tried tons of methods of online dating. The best results (sexually) I’ve gotten BY FAR is by (basically) over-texting leading up to the sex, and then pulling back once I get the sex (because continuing to overtext will absolutely kill the attraction even faster than pulling back).

What you say about that being incongruent and essentially making us look like players resonates with me though. I have considered that being one of the sources of the problem for a while. But to me – the tradeoff is less sex and more wasted time taking girls on real dates (rather than “let’s just meet up at one of our houses” which = “let’s meet up for sex” which = the ultimate “how interested are you really?” test).

My meet to lay ratio is closing around 80-90%. That means only 10-20% of my first dates end with no sex. I dare say that not many men can compete with that %.

This of course, doesn’t mean sh!t other than it’s an effective method for getting first date sex.

We must remember that first date sex (especially if it occurs soon after you meet) is historically a female commitment blocker anyway. Most women will not be interested in a man who lays them so easily. In the dynamics of male/female initial interaction – the woman giving up the sex is her biggest form of currency so this knowingly tips the balance of power far into the man’s corner.

---

With that said – your methods have merits as far as maintaining an actual form of a relationship with a woman. I think if we took a more traditional route of dating/courting – and used some of your ideas – it would work out better for us.

Starting this weekend: I will experiment some more with going on actual dates, not texting much, and use a mix of your ideas (and some of the others like GotED? And Espi Suggested), and see how that goes. At the very least - I may be able to apply a thing or two to what I already do.

 

[Jariel]

1. You keep mentioning how you used to do this or that with your exes... but they're just that, EXES. And, based on your OP, my guess is they dumped you at some point because of various reasons, including your behavior and/or methods of trying to attract them.

But the point with these exes is that we were together for 1 to 5 years, so the initial setting up dates and early texting did nothing to jeopardise the relationship. As for getting dumped, this happened for various reasons that I fully understand, including one who wanted to marry me and have kids and I did not.

2. The reason you're not experienced in making a date and her not keeping it...

Actually, this is not a problem for me at all. Whenever I'm in constant contact with girls, I only get about 1 in 50 flake out on me. The rest are enthusiastic to meet and there's no doubt about them flaking.

I've been experimenting a lot lately. I was texting 5 girls constantly throughout the days leading to our dates, including one girl I had long phone conversations with. Then another 3 girls I had minimum contact with, including one who I made a specific date with and then fell silent. All of the latter 3 flaked out on me, whereas all of the former 5 I'd been maintaining contact with turned up and we clicked straight away.

is because (a) you're not confident enough to make it work, and (b) the women didn't have a high level of interest in you.

I disagree here because most of the time their interest has been sky high long before the date and on the date itself...and even on the second date. They've been talking about how excited they are to see me, admit to getting flustered around me, talk about the connection they feel with me, how much their type I am, about future dates or about where things may lead between us.

In fact, my game leading upto the first and often the second date is flawless. Many times I'll get sex on the first date, depending how defensive they are and how much sexual escalation I've done via text. I'll nearly always get a thank you text after the date, saying what a good time she had and will be full of compliments.

Where my game falls apart is a few days after the dates. It's at this point they start to back off. They stop texting and when I try to contact them for a date a few days later I'll often get no reply. This is the part I do not understand. Maybe I'm going for unavailable women.

At any rate, you're doing a bunch of texting to these girls and they're not staying with you, soooooo....

But I've also tried not texting girls and I don't even make it to the first date. I've tried cutting down my texting after the date too and I still get the same result.

This isn't meant to be harsh in any way - I'm telling you this from experience.

I don't take it as being harsh mate and I honestly value your experience and insight. This is why I started this thread, so I can get different perspectives and maybe an idea where things are falling apart.

However, my own experience differs quite a lot on this and like I say, I've been trying what you've suggested as well as other approaches to making dates and my post-date behaviour, but nothing seems to be making much sense.

 

[Willard]

In the last 7 months I don't remember how many dates from online girls I've been on, It's been a lot. I've texted every one of them with a had a great time after I get home or they text me first with that. I'ts gone my way with every girl except one, and that one wasn't a result of my texting her.

I went out with a girl last week I texted her on Wednesday and said meet me on Friday at this place and this time. No confirmation she just showed up. That's the first time I did that, I couldn't really tell If she was into me or not and I don't usually kiss on the first date, I just told her maybe we can do this again some time and she said sounds great. I found out she is because of the text I got back. Usually the girl texts me to confirm during the week or we text a few times every day to keep in touch.



With the girl I'm seeing now, she asked me to text her to make sure I got home Ok, so I did and I also said I had a great time with her.

Maybe it's the age group I've been dating 35-50, or maybe it's all the work I've put in improving my game has worked, I don't know. Either way everyone has a different way of doing things, it also depends on the girl. I feel them out to see if they like to text or not. The current one we text a few times during the day and we talk on the phone at night.

I agree with Espi

"I haven't telephoned a chick in ages. Almost 100% of my plate spinning is done via text."

I've been doing the same thing except for the current one, because she told me she really likes talking on the phone with me and I like talking to her.

 

[goldengoose]

A few things:

1. You keep mentioning how you used to do this or that with your exes... but they're just that, EXES. And, based on your OP, my guess is they dumped you at some point because of various reasons, including your behavior and/or methods of trying to attract them. So, to say that you used to do certain things with previous girls is irrelevant because they got rid of you, which means what you were doing wasn't working. As for me, I haven't been dumped in 3 years - any exes I have were the result of ME getting rid of THEM, not the other way around, and most of them would still try to contact me later to get reacquainted.

2. The reason you're not experienced in making a date and her not keeping it is because (a) you're not confident enough to make it work, and (b) the women didn't have a high level of interest in you. I kid you not, I never, EVER re-confirm anymore - in MY experience, doing that would more often than not result in them changing their minds. It's not about the text killing their attraction; it's about the LACK OF CONFIDENCE and DESPERATION that's being felt by her through the text. I kid you not, I've been able (many times) to hit a girl up and set a date up for 2 weeks later, and not have to talk to her until the date. And guess what? She shows up! Why? High interest + confidence on my part.

3. I'm not quite getting the logic behind how not texting makes you seem insecure. At any rate, you're doing a bunch of texting to these girls and they're not staying with you, soooooo.... and this is not to say that texting is the only thing you're doing that's causing these women to dump you. But again, part of building attraction is not giving away so much of yourself. The more you're texting her, the more she's getting the idea that (a) you don't have much going on, (b) she's currently the only option you have, and (c) you're depending on attention from her for your happiness. NONE OF THESE IMPRESSIONS SHOULD BE GETTING MADE DURING THE FIRST 3 MONTHS OF DATING HER.

Now, once you actually become the boyfriend... I still wouldn't be initiating most of the texting, but at least by then she's agreed to be yours and you're in a relationship so it's more understandable. But, for those first 3 months, texting should be as limited as possible - you use it to set up a date or see her in person to do your talking, and on days when you don't see her you leave it alone.

And I'm already hearing the question, so I'll just address it:

"But women really like texting, and they'll get mad if I don't contact them or message them back when..."

Look, we're not here to cater to women or do the things they ASSUME will make them attracted to you - we're here to find out what WORKS to catch them. You can text them night and day all you want like all the other orbiters they have, but they are NOT going to stay around if you end up being one of their text buddies. It essentially makes you like one of their girlfriends. For all the texting you're doing right now, it's not benefiting you. And I need not convince you of that 'cause your results show it. This isn't meant to be harsh in any way - I'm telling you this from experience. All I know is that the less texting I've done in the beginning, the quicker I was able to get women to date me/sleep with me/become the girlfriend, etc., and the more texting I did the worse I was at this whole dating thing. People on here will talk to you about text game, or why you should become better at it. The only REAL text game is: send her a message to ask her out, then go out with her. Save all the flirtatious/getting to know you/witty jokes, etc. for when you see her in-person.

how much have you dated? you seem a bit green from what you're saying.

 

[Valentino14]

2. The reason you're not experienced in making a date and her not keeping it is because (a) you're not confident enough to make it work, and (b) the women didn't have a high level of interest in you. I kid you not, I never, EVER re-confirm anymore - in MY experience, doing that would more often than not result in them changing their minds. It's not about the text killing their attraction; it's about the LACK OF CONFIDENCE and DESPERATION that's being felt by her through the text. I kid you not, I've been able (many times) to hit a girl up and set a date up for 2 weeks later, and not have to talk to her until the date. And guess what? She shows up! Why? High interest + confidence on my part.

I call bullsh1t on this. 2 weeks later? Women can't even remember what they do the next day let alone remember to go out on a date 2 weeks later with a man in no contact. More than likely she would call to see if the date was still on if she was high interest. She wouldn't just show up not knowing if you're going to be there. High interest women always text you in between.

...

 

[Jariel]

I call bullsh1t on this. 2 weeks later? Women can't even remember what they do the next day let alone remember to go out on a date 2 weeks later with a man in no contact. More than likely she would call to see if the date was still on if she was high interest. She wouldn't just show up not knowing if you're going to be there. High interest women always text you in between.

...

This has been my experience too. Just because you feel you're confident and secure enough to take a chance and hope she turns up, doesn't mean she's going to do the same. I can't imagine any woman taking such a big risk, getting herself dolled up, spending ages deciding what to wear, then driving to the venue or booking a taxi, without first confirming that you will be there. And I also agree that a woman with high interest will want to text between and if you don't text her back she'll either persist or assume you're not interested.

 

[rascal99v]

What ruins it for men is their behavior, it's not the texting or talking. Chicks prefer communication with men they like.

After the date, they change their game, they either become too pushy, distant, keep overdoing it, or change who they are. That's what ruins it for them as the chicks pick up on it. When you are faking it, you're fakeness comes out and you change. You are not the same dude as you were before. As long as the chick is high interest, and you don't change, you should be fine. After you date goes well and you get laid, the chick will be doing all the work anyway. Just set the tone and go with it, and you should do fine.

Any guy that has to rely on gimmicks to gain interest level in a chick has already lost the game. Chicks should already have high interest in you, if not, then you're not going to get very far with them.

High interest chicks will be calling and textng you in the beginning. They don't go days in stone silence without talking to you, that shows low interest.

These anti texting guys only assume it's the "talking and texting" that's ruining things with women. They aren't taking into account how the dude is acting, what he's actually saying, if he's changed into a beta. High interest chicks don't lose interest in dudes they like as long as the dude doesn't ruin it for himself. Chicks will want to hear from you, they will be the ones contacting you, because women like having communication.

Also, some of these chicks are only looking for a quick bang. Then they are off into the sunset. Some lose interest when some other dude makes her panties more wet than you. So, for these guys to only assume it's texting and calling is asinine. :yes:

I kid you not, I've been able (many times) to hit a girl up and set a date up for 2 weeks later, and not have to talk to her until the date. And guess what? She shows up! Why? High interest + confidence on my part

I call bullsh1t on this. 2 weeks later? Women can't even remember what they do the next day let alone remember to go out on a date 2 weeks later with a man in no contact. More than likely she would call to see if the date was still on if she was high interest. She wouldn't just show up not knowing if you're going to be there. High interest women always text you in between.

...

This has been my experience too. Just because you feel you're confident and secure enough to take a chance and hope she turns up, doesn't mean she's going to do the same. I can't imagine any woman taking such a big risk, getting herself dolled up, spending ages deciding what to wear, then driving to the venue or booking a taxi, without first confirming that you will be there. And I also agree that a woman with high interest will want to text between and if you don't text her back she'll either persist or assume you're not interested.

Good call guys. It seems that Harry Wilmington has a knack of fabricating stories when he leaves comments. :yes:

Even a chick who was going out on a date with George Clooney or Brad Pitt would want confirmation if the date was actually going to happen. She wouldn't sit and wait in two weeks of silence and then meet at their desired location with a chance of being stood up. She at some point, would hit him up and want to keep in touch with him. Only some hideous looking chick that nobody wants to date might go through with that. And Harry said he did this many times? :crackup:

It has nothing to do with high interest and confidence, it has to do with making sure your plans are in sync. People's schedules and plans change all the time, especially two weeks later. Hot chicks are getting hit up all the time for dates. They aren't going to wait two weeks later and assume something planned two weeks previously is going to take place.

If you're not hearing from a chick for two weeks after you set up a date, that means she is not interested in you anymore. Interested chicks are always in contact with you. That's how they are with me. And texting doesn't kill any interest at the beginning. That's another lame myth that I have disproved time and time again from these anti texting guys. This stuff is a joke.

And who the hell makes a date two weeks in advance with no communication? Can you imagine asking a chick "What days and times are good for you 2 weeks from next Tuesday or Thursday at 7:00 or 9:00?" The chick wouldn't know and you would look like and idiot for suggesting that. :crackup:

By the time the two weeks rolls around, a chick could have fvcked another dude twice already, developing feelings for him, and forgot about you and your date. Things always come up, sh1t happens all the time. So, for two people not to hear from each other, remember that a date was made, expect it to happen, and both show up is nearly impossible. I'm telling you, only hideous looking women with no other options would even consider that because hot women always have options and other dudes are always trying to get in their pants.





I have a simple method to getting laid that I posted many times before. That is TEXTING. Texting high interest chicks will get their panties wet and they will give it up. After that you can decide on how you want to go about it. High interest chicks aren't going to lose interest in you that fast. So, texting is not going to ruin anything.

Anti texting dudes like Harry Wilmington calls texting weak or that it kills interest. Those guys are full of sh1t, so they bash texting because they don't know how to do it. It's all about your game, if you can't text a chick, you won't be able to talk on the phone or in person either because your game sucks.

Texting is the fastest and easiest way for communication. You can text chicks when you want. When you're spinning a lot of plates, you don't have the time to be calling each one of them. Which leads me to believe these anti texting guys have no plates and are focusing only on one chick to try to get date from.

I've mentioned several times on here that I have a lot of chicks as just friends. They only talk to guys they actually know and like. They aren't talking to the dude they just gave their number to at the bar. They are texting him because they don't have the time to be talking to every guy they give their number out to.

Texting gauges interest, if a chick is blowing you off via text, she is not interested in talking to you on the phone.

These anti texting dudes are always talking about a phone call. But not one of them has ever answered this question.

If the chick has no interest in talking to you, how are you going to hear her tone of voice or gauge her interest on the phone?

Harry Wilmington's advice comes from 1984 when we had no technology. His "game" sounds like it was written from a mid 1980's "How To" hardback book. His mind set is back in the 1950's from a "Leave It To Be@ver" episode where Wally Cleaver gives his home phone number to a girl where she sits and thinks about him calling her. This is the same advice Harry is endorsing. He thinks if you give a chick your number, she is going to be waiting patiently for your call gaining higher interest as each day goes by. Not picking on him, but his advice is not going to get the job done in 2014.

Giving a chick alternate times and days is stupid. If she isn't interested she will be busy no matter what days or times you give. Also, sounds like you have a lot of "free time" on your hands when you have all these open hours and days. The chick will see that you're trying to hard to please her and making yourself too available. Chicks avoid those kinds of guys.

Throwing out a day and expecting a chick to show up when you haven't even really spoken to her is asinine. Especially when she's talking to other dudes who are making her panties wet. Do you think she's going to show up for you? :crackup:

Waiting 4 days to call and all that sh1t is lame. Chicks aren't going to gain any higher interest than what they already have. It doesn't matter what day you call then if they are DTF. If they are not DTF, you won't get laid whether you waited a week or one day to call.

Telling a chick you're "not much of a phone person" is lame, especially when everybody uses phones today for their basic needs. If you're telling a chick that, she will automatically assume you have something to hide like a girlfriend or wife and she will think you are shady. Just more lame gimmicks trying to build up phony interest that isn't there hoping for the best. Lame. :yes:

Communication is essential and that determines the difference whether you will get laid or not. If you know what you're doing, you can get laid on the first or second date. Sometimes there is no date. When a chick gets turned on through text she will have you come straight over to fvck. But these other guys want to have their phone call and "fake mystery" that get them nowhere. Those guys don't know what they are talking about and haven't gotten very many dates.

If a chick isn't interested in you, you aren't going to make her panties wet via a phone call setting up a date.

I've been texting a chick for 3 weeks and nothing has changed. We had sex 4 times already and she's coming over tomorrow night. I text my other plates as well but I don't overdo it. There has been no lost interest because high interest chicks don't lose interest over texting. They lose interest with men who don't know what they are doing.

Bad game is bad game, low interest is low interest, high interest is high interest, communication is communication. :yes:

But a lot of these guys don't seem to understand that at all. :crazy:

 

[Harry Wilmington]

@Everyone: Wow - sooo, I don't know at what point this thread became about me (or rather, attacking the advice given)... but I must say, I'm quite flattered. At any rate, despite the various accusations about my methods, I always welcome the conversation and chance to defend myself. So, I'd like to thank all of you for your comments and will try to answer to them as shortly as I can (though I'm sure it will only cause more people to be on the attack, lol)...

Disclaimer: for the purposes of this thread, the majority of the advice given is based on my ideals about dealing with women during the first 3 months of dating, specifically within the first few dates when the guy and girl are just starting to get to know each other.

From Valentino14 (in response to my quote about waiting a minimum of 4 days to call her after a date):

This is lame, it doesn't matter how many days you wait to hit her up. She is only going to go out with you if she has the intentions to go out. Same thing goes for calling setting up the dates etc. if she has no intentions of going out your calls won't matter and she will make herself busy on those days. always know for sure beforehand so you don't get stuck wondering about the date.

This is only a half-truth. Yes, she will go out with you if she has the intentions to do so. However, what I - and apparently, the OP - have experienced is that calling/messaging a woman every day post-date causes her to lose interest. Seeing/talking to a woman too much in the beginning causes fast burn-out. It's the same reason so many guys on these boards have stories like "We saw each other every day for 2 weeks, then she disappeared." You want there to be a lil' mystery and challenge in the beginning so she is, essentially, doing things to grab YOUR attention and keep YOU around instead of you having to do all the work. She won't feel like she has to work to do that, though, if you're trying to call her immediately after each date to set up the next one - instead, it makes her think, "gee, he must have no other options," which is actually a BAD thing, as it makes her question why she's captured your attention so easily.

From Espi:

Respectfully disagree about texting being weak. Not true at all in my case. I haven't telephoned a chick in ages. Almost 100% of my plate spinning is done via text, and it's been done quite effectively. Now, again, there's no hard and fast rule that I adhere to when it comes to pickup. Not saying that phoning is ineffective. But for you to say that texting is weak, is wrong, in my opinion. BOTH are effective. An interested chick is interested--doesn't matter how you communicate. Once the foundation is laid, you can communicate via text, online, or phone.

I'm aware there are differences of opinion on this, so I won't delve too deep. What I will say, though, is that most guys tend to think they've laid the foundation of comfort for a chick WAAAAY earlier than they actually have. That's why I tell guys, until you get to at least 3 months with a chick (or until she starts asking you "What are we?" as a means to be your girlfriend), you do NOT actually have her. Which means, during those first 3 months, you shouldn't be doing things a boyfriend would do, like calling/messaging her all the time. It makes things seem, to her, like they're moving too soon. Even if she's SAYING things like "you should call/text me more," I have found that women are horrible at knowing what things a guy needs to do to turn them on... so don't believe them.

Also, proposing 2 different times for a date? That sounds like you're setting up a sales appointment. Just offer ONE time and let her accept or reject it. If she's truly interested she'll counteroffer. TEST her to see if she counteroffers.

It does sound like a sales appointment, doesn't it? I did door-to-door sales for quite a few years and was very, VERY successful at it. One of the things they taught us is that you are more likely to get a "no" from a potential customer for a demo if you propose only ONE meeting time, because you are making them choose between something and nothing. On the other hand, if you said to a potential customer, "So, what time would work for you, 5 or 7?," they would be more likely to choose one of the two times, thus allowing you to get a "yes" for a demo. Why? Because the brain is trained to choose between at least 2 things, so if you only give it a choice between one thing or no thing, there's a 50 percent chance it may choose "no" verses doing it the other way where it's only 33.3%. Once I applied this to dating, the percentage of girls showing up for my dates increased dramatically.

And "strong men never call ahead to confirm dates"? If you think EVERY chick is gonna follow your plans and meet you, you're disillusioned and/or you haven't put yourself out there often enough. I've dated a ton of women over the years, and I can tell you that lots of women DO flake. My time and money are valuable, and I'm not willing to spend time going to meet chicks who I don't even know and/or haven't the common courtesy to assure me that they're gonna show.

I'm 32, and I've been dating since I was 15, so that's 17 years of dating experience with a LOT of women. Not that that necessarily matters - there are guys who only date/marry one girl their entire lives, while there are guys on these boards who have been dating forever yet can't get a girl to commit. Who the REAL winner would be in either scenarios depends on your viewpoint and what your goal is with the women you date.

At any rate, this is another half-truth. Yes, women DO flake - but only the uninterested ones. I actually like when a woman flakes because it allows me to read how uninterested in me she is so I don't have to waste my time chasing her. It also helps me to better distinguish between them and the girls that actually like me. The ones that like you WILL, in fact, follow your plans and meet you, without you having to confirm with them. I don't know if you've just been dating uninterested women or they've been lying to you on dates about how interested they are (which they do some times), but my experience has been that the more they like me, the more they're willing to show up for the things I plan, regardless of the time period in-between.

From bukowski_merit:

Harry. Especially in the case of online game, I have found it absolutely increases your chances of her not flaking and having easy first date sex if you establish a good chemistry with her via text before you ever meet. I know you have a crusade against texting and think what I just said isn’t possible – but you’re going to have to trust someone who’s tried tons of methods of online dating. The best results (sexually) I’ve gotten BY FAR is by (basically) over-texting leading up to the sex, and then pulling back once I get the sex (because continuing to overtext will absolutely kill the attraction even faster than pulling back).

I can vouch for this in the case of online dating - but the difference is, with online dating the only communication method you have with a girl in the beginning is via messaging. A lot of these guys are meeting girls, getting their numbers and trying to build comfort with her via texting, when they should have done that in her first interaction with her. I've gone to parties and gotten girls numbers, then waited 4 days before contacting them and still was able to take them out because I built up all that comfort AT THE PARTY, not ON THE PHONE.

As for online, you're right in that it does make it very easy to hook up with them by the first or second date. So I don't think what you're saying is impossible at all - but, as you've experienced and said yourself, it doesn't make way for a girl to stick around long term. So, while your lay ratio from dates may be high, your relationship ratio from them is not. I tend to focus my advice on keeping a girl around long term, which won't happen if you're constantly messaging/calling a chick during those first few dates...

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Continuing on... from Jariel:

most of the time their interest has been sky high long before the date and on the date itself...and even on the second date. They've been talking about how excited they are to see me, admit to getting flustered around me, talk about the connection they feel with me, how much their type I am, about future dates or about where things may lead between us.

In fact, my game leading upto the first and often the second date is flawless. Many times I'll get sex on the first date, depending how defensive they are and how much sexual escalation I've done via text. I'll nearly always get a thank you text after the date, saying what a good time she had and will be full of compliments.

Where my game falls apart is a few days after the dates. It's at this point they start to back off. They stop texting and when I try to contact them for a date a few days later I'll often get no reply. This is the part I do not understand. Maybe I'm going for unavailable women.

This is the other problem you're having - believing women when they say things. ACTIONS speak louder than words. So, if a chick is saying to you on the second date about liking you and wanting future dates with you... but then isn't communicating with you after that second date or going out with you... then the ACTION dictates she really did NOT like you and did NOT want to go out with you anymore.

Personally, I don't believe anything in those first few months until I see consistency in their behavior. So, if I call a girl and ask her out and she says "yes," I don't assume I automatically have it in the bag with her yet. That only comes after a couple months of consistent "yes" answers to my date and consistent showing up to said dates with no flaking. Also, those of you thinking that getting her to have sex with you on a first date means your date was a success (as it pertains to capturing her feelings for you) is flawed. Women also have sex for a wide variety of reasons, some of which have nothing to do with you. She could have had a horrible time on the date with you but was horny as heck and knew you'd be willing to pin her down. Doesn't mean she's ready to be your beau, which a lot of guys assume and it messes up their game. You end up doing things to mess up your game that you don't even realize you're doing - so, on these second dates, you're changing up how you would normally be without even realizing it.

But I've also tried not texting girls and I don't even make it to the first date. I've tried cutting down my texting after the date too and I still get the same result.

Ultimately dating, like sales, is a numbers game. The better you get at it, the less numbers it will take to get the results you desire. I'm now at the point where I'm typically able to take whatever girl I'm dating and get her to the girlfriend stage, but back when I was really focusing on trying to get better with women I went through a lot of them that had the potential but I wasn't the guy I needed to be to keep them. And as you become more confident, you'll find ways to do these things in ways that don't make it seem to a girl that you're purposefully trying to do them to manage her interest, which can make you seem manipulative.

From GoldenGoose:

how much have you dated? you seem a bit green from what you're saying.

I already answered this in my previous posting - but again, 17 years of dating, been with quite a few chicks and learned even more from doing all the WRONG things in the beginning (which I talk about in my eBook on my website - PLUG!)

From Valentino14:

I call bullsh1t on this. 2 weeks later? Women can't even remember what they do the next day let alone remember to go out on a date 2 weeks later with a man in no contact. More than likely she would call to see if the date was still on if she was high interest. She wouldn't just show up not knowing if you're going to be there. High interest women always text you in between.

And actually, the two people after him also questions my whole "2 weeks later" thing, with the last guy going so far as to say "It seems that Harry Wilmington has a knack of fabricating stories when he leaves comments."

I use the whole 2 weeks thing to demonstrate that, if a woman likes you, she can't just forget about you if you don't talk to her for a certain period of time, nor can she forget plans you've made. But for those of you that need actual examples of what I'm talking about...

1. I do a lot of traveling since I do video/camera work for people. A lot of times this traveling coincides with my dating life. One time, I had to go film on a cruise for 2 weeks where I wouldn't have phone service. So, I told the girl I'm dating that we should go out on x-day when I get back, but that I wouldn't be able to talk to her for 2 weeks since I wouldn't have phone service. And can you believe she actually remembered the day of our date when I got back?

2. Holidays - during Christmastime I go back home to visit family and friends for 2 weeks. During that time if I'm dating someone, I tell them "you will probably not hear from me until I get back - but when I do, we should go out." As I've said before, most girls already know I'm not much of a phone person, so they're not surprised or mad when I tell them this - they're just happy I'm planning a date with them when I get back, and dang near mark it on their calender.

Now, I will admit that the "2 weeks" example is purposefully an extreme one. But, I use it because there are guys on here that freak out about waiting even 2 days to contact a chick between dates for fear of lost interest. However, they still end up losing the girl because they're not seeing how contacting her so much in the beginning is one of the things that's causing her to lose interest. On the other hand, were they to show a lil' patience, they would see that if they'd simply focus on showing her a good time on a date then giving her a few days to mull over how good they made her feel, they'd be in a much better position to raise her interest and have her chasing him down.

Hopefully that answers most of the responses I got - if there are more, I'm welcome to answer them as well

 

[Jariel]

I've just had some interesting feedback from a few of the girls I dated.

I decided to contact one of the aforementioned girls with initial high IL just to wish her well. She got back to me saying it was nice to meet me but no indication of wanting to meet again. So I asked her directly why she had the change of heart. I was expecting something like "it's not you, it's me" or "I'm confused/busy/not ready to date" kind of thing, but she confirmed something I did suspect.

She said I seem like too much of a player and I give the impression I date a lot of women and she thinks I must have women throwing themselves at my feet.

I admit, I do play the ****y funny stuff up and I don't hide the fact I have female admirers or get hit on a lot in my job. I also tend to try to escalate sexually a lot, which may all lead them to think I'm just after one thing.

Well, she explained that she's not the most confident person and needs someone who she feels secure with, and she doesn't feel like she can be with me.

After hearing this I decided to ask some friends and girls I dated a while ago and remained on good terms with and they agreed I do give off this vibe. My friend told me I'm "annoyingly good looking" and "too charming it's suspicious" and said she can understand why women would feel intimidated, especially when I talk a lot about my dating experiences and encounters (i.e. social proof).

I guess it would explain why women are really into me initially and why I have no problems getting dates, but why they back off before things progress.

I continued talking to this girl I recently dated and I told her a lot of my ****iness is just me playing around. I was careful not to reassure her so much I started chasing her, but I explained that I don't sleep around and that I don't just date anyone. I also let her know that I'd really enjoyed getting to know her and would've really liked to get to know her more. She responded very well to all this and said it's a side she hadn't seen in me before, but which she could like a lot. We're going out for a drink tomorrow.

When I think back to my first dates with my ex, I decided to approach it very differently to usual. I dropped a lot of the gaming/PUA mentality and just focused on getting to know her and enjoying her company. I even recall texting her the day after the date and saying how much I enjoyed meeting her and I looked forward to seeing her again.

When you think about it, it takes a lot more confidence to be direct and express your interest in this way than it does to play cool.

I'm not saying I've found the solution all of a sudden, but the insight might serve me well. I think I just need to tone down my player vibes. At my age, many of the quality women I meet aren't looking for a player boyfriend they can show off; they're more interested in someone they can settle down with and who makes them feel loved and secure.

It's just a matter of expressing this without appearing needy or desperate or becoming the chaser.

 

[asa_don]

it might be your inner game that's causing women to flake after the dates.