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Your Girl Can't be Your Best Friend

Joseph Stark

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What’s up guys. I’m Joseph Stark. Just signed up for the forum today. I just took the red pill earlier this year, I think right around the April Covid-19 shutdowns. I’m here to learn from you guys and also spread knowledge from my own experiences as well. If you agree/disagree with me or have any suggestions, please comment/message me. This post ended up being long on accident but whatever. It’s about why a guy shouldn’t make his girl or wife his “best friend”, and this is pretty important in my opinion because every relationship I’ve seen where I guy treats his girl like this ends up single.




“OMG! My best friend and I are getting married!!!!”

I am beginning to see this quote, or something close to it, on my social media feed all the time (mostly Facebook). It’s usually posted by a girl around 22—26 years old, and the “best friend” that she is always referring to is the boyfriend who just proposed. The caption is almost always accompanied by a photo of her flashing her engagement ring for the camera while the boyfriend gives her a lean-in kiss from behind. It’s pretty cringe in my opinion, and I wanted to see where some of you stand on this topic. A man’s girlfriend/wife should never be his best friend. I believe this is the case because a man interacts with other people differently depending on who he’s speaking with (example: you just can’t talk with your mother the same way you talk with your best bud on your football team). Even if you don’t realize it, you subconsciously will interact with them differently.

Before giving my opinion on why exactly it’s terrible for a guy to attempt to make his girl/his wife his “best friend”, I’m going to first talk about why it technically makes no damn sense in the first place. Two people that are sexually attracted to each other cannot and will never be best friends. You don’t bang your friends… I cannot make it any simpler than that. But since that little one-liner isn’t enough to convince some guys, I unfortunately have a whole essay prepared. The two genders’ concepts of friendship are completely different. Guys usually pick their friends because they have similar interests and they generally hangout while doing those interests/activities. For example, the guy I consider my best friend today, we met on the high school football team. We have a common interest in lifting weights and combat sports. So, we became friends and frequently hang out doing those activities. Female friendships tend to not rely too much on common activities to bond. Girls will talk to each other like old friends even if they just met in the bar bathroom ten minutes ago, just by virtue of their being women. The women in your life will most likely find themselves bonding over the social interaction itself as opposed to what exactly they’re doing at their hangout. In the hunter-gatherer days, aimless socialization and gossip were the basis for female friendship. The men went out to kill and conquer, while the girls got together and just talked. I’m just including that last line to give illustrate an idea of where that female behavior comes from…they pretty much evolved to behave like that.

So to summarize, when a couple tries to become “best friends”, the guy will be naturally approaching the relationship in the same manner he approaches his other male friendships, and she’ll be approaching that relationship the same way she does her female friendships. The Boston comedian Bill Burr had a pretty good point about this too. He remarked one time that he thinks women (including his own) are pissed off that men can effortlessly have a good time together over a football game, just sit there with a beer, enjoy the game without excessive talking, and have a fantastic time doing it. Check out that clip on the Conan O'Brien show. I’m not saying you can’t enjoy the company of your girl, but do not expect her to consistently interact with you in the same way your male friends do.

Now that I’ve covered why “BFF-izing” your girl doesn’t even practically make sense, let’s talk about why it’s detrimental to yourself to even try. First, it conflicts with her hypergamous nature. I know most of you are “red-pilled” and are probably familiar with Rollo Tomassi’s work in the Rational Male in which he heavily concentrates on the concept of hypergamy. But for the sake of clarity, the rest of this paragraph will cover the concept of hypergamy for newcomers. Skip ahead to the next paragraph if you are already familiar with this term. Hypergamy means to mate UP, and in my own word I’m going to describe it as a psychological function in a woman’s mind that has evolved over several millennia. Every single woman on the planet has it. Not some, ALL. To say only some women have it is the equivalent of saying “only some men have testosterone coursing through their body.” Anyway, in laymen’s terms, a female’s hypergamous nature compels her to seek out a male she perceives to be better than her on some level. Sometimes she believes her guy to be socio-economically better than her, sometimes she believes the guy to be genetically better than her (she thinks he’s hotter than her), sometimes both. No matter what, she doesn’t want to mate down. This is why you will NEVER see a grown woman who is fully financially established dating a male waiter or secretary.
 
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Joseph Stark

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Men tend to hangout with guys that can challenge them and do the same things they do. Lifters generally tend to befriend those they can train with and can lift near the same weight as them; scholars tend to associate with colleagues who are just as competent and smart as them. Impactful success gurus/life coaches are always instructing their followers to surround themselves with men who are headed in the direction they want. This means if you’re chasing excellence, surround yourself with men who are ambitious and disciplined. If you’re trying to lose weight, don’t surround yourself with lazy slobs who binge eat five times a week. You get the idea. If you’re communicating to her that she is your best friend, this subcommunicates to her that you believe she’s on equal footing with you, which is a low-key turn off to the woman. Now keep in mind, this has nothing to do with her being “less than you”. In actuality, it has everything to do with her perception of you. If she perceives she’s your equal/better than you, then her hypergamy won’t be satisfied, her respect will slowly decrease, and this is where you’ll see your girl talking crap to you and acting like all masculine. Girls don't act masculine around men they are crazy about, and they are only crazy about the men they believe is the best they can do (hypergamy).


You’re probably familiar with Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, the psychologist all over YouTube. I’m a fan of him myself and respect him. But when it came time for him to give relationship advice, he talked about “you need to choose a partner that’s a challenge”. This is probably the worst advice to give because a partner that sees you as the best she can do, won’t “challenge” you in the manner he’s speaking about. Be mindful of what I mean by challenging. When a girl challenges you to get add more to your bench-press, that’s a good challenge. That’s a form of support. The type of “challenge” I’m negatively speaking about is when a girl challenges your frame in the relationship and tries competing with you. There is a massive difference between a girl supporting you and a girl who is competing with you. She does not need to be a “challenge” for you to support you, this is utter nonsense. For a girl who believes she’s with the best man she can get and she genuinely respects him, it won’t even cross her mind to challenge him. Know that when a girl begins competing with you, it is not the same as supporting you and she does not see you as her best option. Do you think a girl would “challenge” David Goggins? Or Drake? Or Chuck Norris? No, they won’t. Because they instinctively know that those high-value men would rather kick them to the curb than put up with that.

Another reason to add to the list on why your girl shouldn’t be your “friend” is it takes all the sexual/romantic energy out of it. It’s funny to see a beta-male fight tooth and nail to get out of the dreaded “friend-zone” just to turn around and post some cringey garbage like “this girl is my best friend <3” a few months after he starts dating her. What’s the point of that? I don’t know about you guys, but I consider that pure self-deprecation. There’s nothing romantic or sexual about friendship. She’ll never give you her sexual best if there’s a cozy friendly vibe between the two of you. This “she’s my best buddy” nonsense just kills any sexual tension that was there, if there was any to begin with.

I really think the reasons I keep listing on this essay keep getting progressively worse. Don't treat a woman like your best friend, because best friends typically confide in each other and you should NEVER fully confide in another woman because she’ll lose respect/sexual interest in you. Men should talk to each other about their problems instead of women because girls will never fully appreciate men’s struggles, and your value will only go down in their eyes post-confession. I get the whole “women won’t ever appreciate men’s struggles” thing sounds cliché and dramatic, but hear me out. It’s okay to talk to certain men about your issues because they see things from a male perspective. They live a male life every day so they can empathize with you. She views everything you do through her hypergamous lens, and if you start complaining to her about something….sure, she’ll do her best to soothe things over with you. But you better believe she’ll subconsciously see you as lesser value than before. If you don’t believe me, try complaining about your life to the girl you’re with. Do it more frequently and despite her assurance that “I got you no matter what”, and “it’s okay babe”, you just watch her sexual interest in you take a nosedive.

Guys today need to learn this now: that girl you’re sleeping with is not your mommy or your psychologist, so wipe your tears and get it together. She wants to believe the man she chose is stronger than hell and can overcome anything. On some level of consciousness, she’s thinking, “If this guy can’t even defeat his own demons, how will he protect me and our children?” Female nature is to submit to a man she believes is worthy of her respect, just as part of male nature is to protect his woman and the children. If you’re constantly falling apart in front of her, don’t expect to receive the same respect and adoration you once received.
 

Joseph Stark

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The last and most disastrous consequence of treating your best friend and love of your life as the same person is that it breeds the most horrendous case of ONEitis. Rollo Tomassi defines ONEitis in his first Rational Male Book as: “An unhealthy romantic obsession with a single person. Usually accompanied by unreciprocated affection and completely unrealistic idealization of the said person.” Guys, the person you spend most of your free social time with is your best friend, right? Now imagine a scenario where that best friend is also your girlfriend. Your desire and resolve to spend time with her has now at least doubled because this “best friend” of yours is a girl you have a constant desire to sleep with her. When a guy thinks he’s found both romantic love and a best friend in the same person, he won’t have much motivation to leave that person’s company. “Why go to the bar with the boys tonight when I have my BEST FRIEND right here? AND I can bang her?? Yeah no, I’m staying in tonight.” A man’s idealistic concept of love, combined with his innate protective nature of females (especially one he’s chosen to bang), combined with a man’s loyalty to his “best friend”, and you have the most horrific type of ONEitis. A girl chooses a guy because she believes he’s the best she can do. Act like anything other than that and her interest in you will drop. Don’t be an idiot!



Let me know your guys' thoughts below!
 

Black Widow Void

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Apparently, I've somehow overlooked all these proclamations from forum members claiming their girlfriend/wife to be their "best friend."

I'm sure that your 'first posting' isn't because you aspire to be some life-coach guru. And so, I ask you to provide links to recent forum entries that prompted you to make this your very first posting.
 

Joseph Stark

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Apparently, I've somehow overlooked all these proclamations from forum members claiming their girlfriend/wife to be their "best friend."

I'm sure that your 'first posting' isn't because you aspire to be some life-coach guru. And so, I ask you to provide links to recent forum entries that prompted you to make this your very first posting.
Apparently, I've somehow overlooked all these proclamations from forum members claiming their girlfriend/wife to be their "best friend."

I'm sure that your 'first posting' isn't because you aspire to be some life-coach guru. And so, I ask you to provide links to recent forum entries that prompted you to make this your very first posting.
no sir, it is from nobody on this site and I’ve no plans to become any kind of guru, just wanna share my thoughts. I should have specified more but this is from people outside the red pill manosphere. I see this whenever people from my high school / college classes get engaged (via Facebook posts), and it’s a prevalent thought in my family and church that whoever you should marry should be your best friend
 

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derby1

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read the part about him kissing her on the cheek, then i stopped reading. Stedman Graham used to lean about 4 feet away from Oprah.

Original O.G
 

Lookatu

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Didn't read too much except a few sentences.

Best Friend of Opposite Sex = Friendzoned blue pill white knight beta(ish) partner that occasionally gets sex when she wants to or wants a baby.
 

speed dawg

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It's hilarious to me how women are dumb enough to think they can have it all. They want to be feminine and all these things that they naturally gravitate towards, but at the same time they show this ego, this need to be what society tells them they need, which is to be on a pedestal (i.e. the ring), marrying a "best friend" who's a "real man" because he's not intimidated by his wife having literally everything. Somehow a "real man" is supposed to take on two different forms. This really only works if the man is a true alpha.

The rest of us either have to be rich (which is why these princesses will end up staying with a blue-pilled cuck), or they have to avoid these girls (they are not women, they are CHILDREN), altogether.

Consider it a blessing. The only thing these girls are good for is, well, you know. So be the jerk they want before the marriage. And most of them may not go for you, because they are eaten up with status. That's alright too.
 

mrgoodstuff

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It's hilarious to me how women are dumb enough to think they can have it all. They want to be feminine and all these things that they naturally gravitate towards, but at the same time they show this ego, this need to be what society tells them they need, which is to be on a pedestal (i.e. the ring), marrying a "best friend" who's a "real man" because he's not intimidated by his wife having literally everything. Somehow a "real man" is supposed to take on two different forms. This really only works if the man is a true alpha.

The rest of us either have to be rich (which is why these princesses will end up staying with a blue-pilled cuck), or they have to avoid these girls (they are not women, they are CHILDREN), altogether.

Consider it a blessing. The only thing these girls are good for is, well, you know. So be the jerk they want before the marriage. And most of them may not go for you, because they are eaten up with status. That's alright too.
Whats considered status toothed hos? I've known of some that got with NFL and NBA players and leave if they lose their contract.
 

Kotaix

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TL;DR

Anyone who proclaims to the world that "we're best friends!" is either trying convince themselves that it's true when it isn't, or is trying to signal to everyone how great their relationship is in order to gain social standing. It might be acceptable during a wedding, but even then it's a tired old cliche for lack of any other words.

I get along great with my gf. We finish eachother's sentences and we're usually thinking the same thing most of the time. I don't think the word "friend" has ever come up between us. And no one outside of our closest groups of friends even knows that we're dating because neither of us has anything to prove.
 

LARaiders85

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Don't treat a woman like your best friend, because best friends typically confide in each other and you should NEVER fully confide in another woman because she’ll lose respect/sexual interest in you. Men should talk to each other about their problems instead of women because girls will never fully appreciate men’s struggles, and your value will only go down in their eyes post-confession. I get the whole “women won’t ever appreciate men’s struggles” thing sounds cliché and dramatic, but hear me out. It’s okay to talk to certain men about your issues because they see things from a male perspective. They live a male life every day so they can empathize with you. She views everything you do through her hypergamous lens, and if you start complaining to her about something….sure, she’ll do her best to soothe things over with you. But you better believe she’ll subconsciously see you as lesser value than before. If you don’t believe me, try complaining about your life to the girl you’re with. Do it more frequently and despite her assurance that “I got you no matter what”, and “it’s okay babe”, you just watch her sexual interest in you take a nosedive.
in my experience yes. Women HATE this advice though, because they use your complaining to screen you for value.
 

mrfeelgood

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In my opinion good relationships are built on a solid foundation of trust, of being able to be open and honest with each other, of laughter, tears, shared visions. It's a partnership. Shouldn't the person that is in your life be your best buddy, your cheerleader, your biggest fan, partner in crime and capers?

You kinda have to really like each other in order to trust one another. Best friends care about you the most and love you. Regardless if it is gf/bf, lover, spouse, you should always be best friends, giggle together, be goofy together, grow something beautiful and lasting.

And, choosing the girl who is always by your side, you’ve got a pretty good advantage. :D
 

mrgoodstuff

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In my opinion good relationships are built on a solid foundation of trust, of being able to be open and honest with each other, of laughter, tears, shared visions. It's a partnership. Shouldn't the person that is in your life be your best buddy, your cheerleader, your biggest fan, partner in crime and capers?

You kinda have to really like each other in order to trust one another. Best friends care about you the most and love you. Regardless if it is gf/bf, lover, spouse, you should always be best friends, giggle together, be goofy together, grow something beautiful and lasting.

And, choosing the girl who is always by your side, you’ve got a pretty good advantage. :D
Especially in this society. We need women in our corner as many are working against you.
 

stringpuller

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This is probably the worst advice to give because a partner that sees you as the best she can do, won’t “challenge” you in the manner he’s speaking about
OP you misread Peterson here. Woman will without fail continually screen you. Not direct challenge but "screen" all do it and you almost won't know it. Keep that sword sharp
 

FuzzX

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Sorry there used to be a qoute button here pal, dunno where its gone.

Anyway, my wife is literally my bestfriend and the only person I would trust with my life, FULL STOP.

I spend, on average, most of my day when I'm not working, with her sitting 5 feet away. When I am working she either comes to visit or sits in the meetings and presentations somewhere in the back while she checks her phone. Its nothing to do with being alpha or any of that other garbage, it has to do with personality and politics. Ours line up 100%. I met this chick in 2010 on couchsurfing, got together with her in 2011 and married her like a year or so later. She was 21 when I met her, still a virgin and a trad/country girl. I've never been more than a stones throw from her except for a 5 month stint when I needed to go home. My wife is Chinese btw and we lived in China for the majority of our time together, we've since come home to Canada but my wife rarely leaves my side. Early in our relationship she carried me to a hospital and stood (not sat) beside the hospital bed for 48 hours while I visited the otherside. I would die for this woman and kill anyone that threatens her.

I had plenty of girls before her but when I met this one, I knew from the first meetup, I would be staying with her. I've been into pickup since I was 22 or 23 (17 years ago) and I attended all the lairs, met a bunch of the gurus but two things that very few of them had done was to 1. date with the intent of marriage and 2. go abroad. You are not going to meet this caliber of woman in a western country. You need to get to the 3rd world and then you need to go to a poor as fvck area and find the girls who were raised in poverty. Its a different dynamic then just meeting some dumb ***** at a bar in a first world country. Overseas the stakes are higher and the women are more serious about making their lives BETTER. Here we live in decadence and look what happened to our country, its full of fools who are pulling down the system. My wife and I are hyperaware of what is happening to western society. You form different bonds when your life is an adventure than when its a chore. We've been through thick and thin, death and back, that's what creates real bonds... not meeting up in a bar, buying a house and have a dog and a kid. There is a much bigger dynamic in play here, just know that women in North America are by and large dysfunctional and have no idea what the REAL WORLD looks like outside of the Disney bull**** that's been created here. When women have to look into the abyss, they wise up real fast and realize that creating a strong family bond is the only thing keeping them alive.

Dunno if this has anything to do with it but shes a snake, I'm a monkey, apparently the two are star crossed best friends.
 

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stringpuller

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My wife is Chinese btw and we lived in China for the majority of our time
Culture means a lot.
You are not going to meet this caliber of woman in a western country. Y
True story.
Overseas the stakes are higher and the women are more serious about making their lives BETTER
This i can say is absolutely true. Principles of a tough life can translate to good wife material
 

Ricky

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Good thread. Wish my marriage was better now. I was alpha for most of it and screwed up in 2020.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Sorry there used to be a qoute button here pal, dunno where its gone.

Anyway, my wife is literally my bestfriend and the only person I would trust with my life, FULL STOP.

I spend, on average, most of my day when I'm not working, with her sitting 5 feet away. When I am working she either comes to visit or sits in the meetings and presentations somewhere in the back while she checks her phone. Its nothing to do with being alpha or any of that other garbage, it has to do with personality and politics. Ours line up 100%. I met this chick in 2010 on couchsurfing, got together with her in 2011 and married her like a year or so later. She was 21 when I met her, still a virgin and a trad/country girl. I've never been more than a stones throw from her except for a 5 month stint when I needed to go home. My wife is Chinese btw and we lived in China for the majority of our time together, we've since come home to Canada but my wife rarely leaves my side. Early in our relationship she carried me to a hospital and stood (not sat) beside the hospital bed for 48 hours while I visited the otherside. I would die for this woman and kill anyone that threatens her.

I had plenty of girls before her but when I met this one, I knew from the first meetup, I would be staying with her. I've been into pickup since I was 22 or 23 (17 years ago) and I attended all the lairs, met a bunch of the gurus but two things that very few of them had done was to 1. date with the intent of marriage and 2. go abroad. You are not going to meet this caliber of woman in a western country. You need to get to the 3rd world and then you need to go to a poor as fvck area and find the girls who were raised in poverty. Its a different dynamic then just meeting some dumb ***** at a bar in a first world country. Overseas the stakes are higher and the women are more serious about making their lives BETTER. Here we live in decadence and look what happened to our country, its full of fools who are pulling down the system. My wife and I are hyperaware of what is happening to western society. You form different bonds when your life is an adventure than when its a chore. We've been through thick and thin, death and back, that's what creates real bonds... not meeting up in a bar, buying a house and have a dog and a kid. There is a much bigger dynamic in play here, just know that women in North America are by and large dysfunctional and have no idea what the REAL WORLD looks like outside of the Disney bull**** that's been created here. When women have to look into the abyss, they wise up real fast and realize that creating a strong family bond is the only thing keeping them alive.

Dunno if this has anything to do with it but shes a snake, I'm a monkey, apparently the two are star crossed best friends.
"she's a snake, I'm a monkey"? What are you meaning?
 

FuzzX

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"she's a snake, I'm a monkey"? What are you meaning?


In China a lot of people know what they are, so I used it as a way of giving people nicknames. Instead of using their actual name, which for me was near impossible to pronounce, I would just call a chick Dog, Evil Monkey or Snake. Eventually, they started calling themselves that too. :D

Not to mention, women LOVE to talk about astrology and relationships. (I used to teach adults)
 
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manfrombelow

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A man should (and must) have a "best friend" in the form of a guy buddy (no homo though) outside of his marriage.

I don't buy into the notion of seeing your wife/girlfriend as "best friend" in the sense that you can expect her to listen to your ****, or talk to her about your inner thoughts. No, that's bull**** and only bring you nothing but pain and suffering in the long run.
 
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