your first date

[iqqi]

i have a nice guy friend who just started seeing a girl. he is a true AFC you have no idea. they have already went out on one date, and he all butterflied and excited "i have those feelings in my stomach, gonna call her tomorrow, dream about her tonite"

so i was browsing the bible and saw that there was nothing there that concisely sums up anything pertaining to this. i'd have to print out the entire thing, and that means reading all of it again and i am not that nice of a girl!

sooooo...

i was wanting your absolute best tidbits to an AFC who has one on the line. please. he needs it.

 

[xblitz44x]

The best thing that I suggest, is for him to first, figure out why he likes this girl so much. Try to get him to understand where these feelings are coming from. What is it that's so "perfect" about her? Anybody who perceives perfection in another person, conversely recognizes flaw in himself. That's the REASON for those butterfly, intimidating feelings. To make us more aware of ourselves.

Don't let him lose sight of himself. For this experience, and everyone before and after it will be for the sole reason of understanding himself. We are all attractive, and perfect, and awesome with women - unconsciously, now we are being put into situations where we have to gradually consciously DISCOVER those things. It's all one huge journey.

 

[legolas]

I would try a simple fast-forward-to-the-future experiment. This might actually slow him down. Take him aside and ask him, what he's going to do next time he sees her. Then ask him where they'd be a month from now, 6 months, a year, 2 years, 5 years, if he can even think that far ahead. If he can't, maybe he should.

If marriage is anywhere in this period, then follow up with the marriage, and how well he knows her, and how supportive she is and all that jazz. If you see that he's thinking of marriage too soon, ask him if it's really enough time for him to deicede whether or not he should get married. All you try to do, is inject doubt, and the rest takes care of itself. Try not to lead him to a particular path, he chooses the path, you simply become his "reality check" his "devil's advocate" And keep asking about what the girl feels like, and if he is evn considering her feelings.

This should slow him down and bring him down to an earthy view of himself and the girl. This way you won't be blamed for "killing" the relationship.

Here's a quick lesson in awareness.

Awareness 101

After dating the girl once, his awareness is focused to all of her good features. She is now in a pedestal for him. Forcing the awreness on the other side, usually makes him trust you less!!! The method above, of injecting doubt, is one way to blow up his frame of awareness so he focuses on himself and all the other good things that DJs focus on.

So following this arguing, there could be no single "magic" phrase that will help him change his focus, and somtimes even hard evidence, like photos, or video are usually reframed by these persons so it will fit the "image" that he has of her. Insteas of seeing her for who she is, he'll simply go "Well, she must have had good reasons..." or "It must be a setup, it can't be her"

To change awareness, you need time. Not too much time, but a single word, phrase, or paragraph isn't going to cut it. Like I mentioned above, one way is to piece by piece taint his "perfect" image of her. Another one, is to blow it out of proportions so it becomes ridiculous. (ie. "She's so perfect, I would go kneel down to her, kiss her feet and beg her to give me a chance, while she is whipping me with lashes" But be careful, he may just have such a fantasy )

There is another method, which uses step by step decisions, where you start with a very, very small flaw that he actually noticed. You have him write it down. Then you ask him to expand on that writing a paragraph, or two and then summarizing it. Then maybe expanding again on that summary. This method was used by the Chinese communists to get American POWs to agree with some of the communist views. I think it happend after the Korean war, or the Vietnam war, I'm not so sure. But you can take it all the way from "well there was this little flaw, but it was very minimal" to "Uh, she's not THAT perfect" to "I'm a pretty cool person myself"

 

[Slickster]

Remind him that the last guy that came on too strong with you creeped you out.

Take it slowly and play hard to get.

 

[MVPlaya]

IQQI, PRINT THIS OUT FOR HIM

Dear [X],

What you need to understand is that one thing that people look for in a relationship is someone who they can relate to. When we look for women, we look for attractive intelligent women, someone on our level. Similarly, women are looking for men they perceive "worthy" or "experienced" to a degree that they are looking for. When you have"butterflies" in your stomach, you are signalling that you are NOT worthy. By being prematurely attracted to a woman, you signal 3 key things:
1. She is so amazing and you are not. Very simply, the girl picks up on this as she is wonderful and you are not worthy of her, that's why you give of signals of desperation.
2. You do not go out much. People have a finite capacity for mistakes. When you go out and you are this attracted, it means you have probably been like this before (meaning she's not THAT amazing, you're just THAT desperate). Now, either you found someone who miraculously (don't count on it) fell for you too and you lived happily ever after... or... (the reason why you're here) the relationship didn't work. Now, after X amount of times you would understand that desperation is not very romantic, but seeing as you are not on that level yet, you clearly don't go out much and have yet to learn that lesson.
3. You are immature. By falling for her this quickly you simply lack the maturity to keep yourself in check. It is important for women that men can show self-respect. Part of self-respect is patience and self-value, when you give your love out this quickly, it becomes a cheap currency... or you do. Instead, learn to control yourself and show self-restraint. It will impress her more.

But in the end, all my words will only do so much for you. Odds are you are going to go out and fall for her and she may not reciprocate your emotions. Look at this as a learning process. What you need to know when you get back is that women are not there to complete our lives. If you wan't to be satisfied, you must complete it yourself and then learn to share it with someone. Come to this forum (SoSuave.com) after your date once you are beginning to lighten up to reality.

In the meantime, try to enjoy yourself.
MVPlaya

 

[iqqi]

amazing. simply AMAZING. you guys are great. mvplaya, you helped ME out with that one. all of your guys advice is great. legolas, is it not dangerous to think so far into the future, does that not lead to illusions? or are you telling him to create bad scenarios instead of good ones?

 

[SamePendo]

Iqqi is an egomaniac that likes to highlight the fact that she has high iq iqqi.

Besides, she is icky.

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by SamePendo
Besides, she is icky.

 

[Panther]

I've been where your friend was exactly 1 year ago. And I know exactly how he thinks and feels.

My best advice is let him burn... It does hurt, and do make sure you are there for him when it happens, but it is worth it.

In this year I have improved (socially, mentally and physically) in ways I never thought possible, and that was because I realised by myself the constraints of AFCness and decided to "take the red pill".

Had I followed my friends' advice 1 year ago, resulting to not screwing everything up, I would now be the same AFC, trapped in a relationship with someone that I can not recall what attracted me to her!

Remember, you can't save an AFC if he doesn't want to save himself. And he won't want to save himself unless he goes through a period of frustration, dissappointment and emotional pain...

The-Panther

 

[iqqi]

thank you panther.

my afc friend has already did the horrible disaster relationship, it was his first and thus far his only. so been there done that. i am not worried too much about him getting into a bad relationship. i am more concerned that he will come across as a loser = no 2nd date = confidence blow = no mas dates for awhile = bitter =my headache.

so if this was heading into a LTR, i'd agree. but i just want advice on how to keep his ship afloat, now that he has finally gotten it into the water!

 

[honeyshark]

He must experience rejection and the burn for himself. Telling him will do no good. I was a lurker on this site a long time ago, knew all the info on DJism, yet was still semi-AFC. Only when you are burned do you gain the experience which validates the theories on this board.

Peace.

 

[iqqi]

ok, one more bump before i print this out for him...

 

[iqqi]

and my two cents...

1. do not come across as desperate.

you are the prize.
you have other options.
she must first qualify herself to you before you can really get serious. i.e. :what does she have to offer?

i know that one is going to be hard for him to digest. so any help here is appreciated.



2. you are a gentleman but you are not a doormat

do not apologize for your sexuality. you are a man.
you do whatever you want because you are comfortable with yourself as a man.


3. you are not her friend.

no sob stories about other men. NONE.
no helping her with her womanly issues. you are a MAN.
no shopping at meijers at 1am, unless it is for condoms.


4. create value

you have a life besides this date.
it is fun and interesting and like no other. she should want to be a part of it.
hint towards other plans in the week, but subtly and tactful.
YOU end the date/phone conversation.

 

[Walden]

1. does not come to traverse like desperate. you are the prize that you have other options she must first be described to you before you can really obtain is decir:what serious she must offer? I know that one is going to be hard so that he digests. any aid is appraised here so.

2. you are a horseman but you are not doormat does not apologize by his sexuality. that you are manual you you do what you wish because you are comfortable with like man.

3. you are not your friend no histories of the sob on other men. NO no to help with her womanly him the editions you are a MAN no purchases in meijers in 1am, unless she is for condoms.

4. create the value you you have a life in addition to this date. it is diversion and interesting and as no other she must wish to be an indirect part of him towards other plans in the week, but subtle and discreet. YOU finish the conversation of date/phone.


(Iqqi , I translated your post on babelfish.com into spanish and back again, I thought it'd be kinda funny I hope didn't dilute the purpose of your thread too much.)

 

[iqqi]

that was so funny that people at work think i am crying, not laughing!

















kinda like when sex is really good.....

 

[dietzcoi]

No offense but if he is a "nice guy" who needs to be coached by a woman he may be lost. Tell him to get good advice from DJ male friends if he has any. Otherwise he is lost. Not everybody wants to be unplugged from the AFC matrix... some like it there for some reason.

Dietzcoi