Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

You guys ever get back in touch with your "no contacts"?

floydb25

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perseverance said:
It all sounds so eventful, I think we all feel like that at times in our lives, but the important thing is not to base your entire existence on being successful with women. If I am feeling angry, bitter or frustrated then I step back away from the game and take a break from it.

At least you're good now though. Can I just ask what you did to move from the rut that you were in? What changes did you make and what changed your attitude and perspective?
Note: this might be long...

It wasn't based on success with women per se - I just expected them to cure me of my problems. When that didn't happen, I became angry, and blamed them for it. There was certainly a lot of co-dependency and neediness on my part. I NEEDED them. When they rejected me - I became furious. Took everything way too personally, and viewed everyone as the enemy.

The changes I made were various. Most important was realizing the underlying issue was caused by me. I had the problem; was unhappy and felt empty. I depended on everyone else to make me happy. This was a big problem.

Secondly was changing the kind of women I went after. I was always shy and passive, and let women come to me. This wasn't a problem - because women always found me very attractive. The problem was, everyone who came after me was a jerk. They were the confident, dominating, unafraid, in your face type. They may have been hot, but they were complete *****es. They were also very skanky and slutty.

On that point, I specifically went after emotionally damaged women - because it felt like there was compatibility there. We both had struggles, didn't trust, are lives took similar paths, etc. So, I tried to save these women - only to end up getting burned. I didn't realize that these people were jerks, and that we weren't really on the same page. I viewed them as afraid, misunderstood, and in need of saving. Had the whole fairytale hero romance thing going on. I didn't want a nice girl - I wanted a bad girl to become nice. Yeah, that didnt happen.

I also realized how shallow I was. My mind became cluttered with negativity about women - because I only focused on one type of girl. The hot, shallow, stuck up, ditsy, slutty type. I came to the irrational conclusion that all women were this way - because they're the only ones who caught my attention. It's not that nice girls didn't exist - I just didn't care, because they weren't hot. As well, the hot, confident, aggressive ones did all the approaching - because they had no fear. This also came with a lot of demanding, manipulative, and controlling behavior - which made it difficult to leave. They were very persistent and relentless in their aggressive behavior.

Accepting that no one is special was a big part of the process. I always had this image of what women were - which they would also claim about themselves. They were all innocent, fragile, harmless little victimized angels who can do no wrong. I didn't accept the reality of who anyone was - just blindly followed their claims, and had my head way up in the clouds. I became disappointed because my expectations and their claims never matched who they really were. This created a lot of anger and frustration. Black and white thinking was common.

This was also based on my own shallowness. I became infatuated with these jerks because they were hot. There was no other reason. It's not that they were nice - far from it. I only viewed them that way because I had a crush on them. Meanwhile, genuinely nice girls were constantly passed up - because they weren't hot enough.

I didn't love any of these girls - they just stimulated a lot of emotions. I confused infatuation with love, and actually hated a lot of them. But, of course, they were hot. Therefore, they were perfect in my mind. I even convinced myself that they were nice - just afraid, confused, unsure, distrusting. Made way too many excuses, and tolerated too much poor behavior from these jerks

Realizing my own underlying issues, accepting reality instead of living in a fantasy world, and eliminating shallowness helped a lot. As well as approaching different kinds of women. Cute, conservative, and nice is much better than hot, slutty, and crazy.

I also realized that becoming angry and bitter over other people's behaviors only ends up hurting yourself, and those around you. Nowadays, I just accept that its how some people are. No sense becoming angry over it. Just accept it, and don't associate with them. Don't get sucked into their web of lies and games. You don't owe them anything. You're not selfish for not letting them use you. Guilt trips and sympathy pleas are the tools of manipulators. Don't fall for it.

Realizing the nature of bad people also helps to avoid them. All of the tactics they use are the same. As are their personalities and lifestyles. Bad people don't view themselves as bad, so its up to YOU to find out the truth - instead of make it all about them, and automatically take their side. Believe and assume nothing. Don't become angry if they're losers - just accept it, and move on. Don't dwell on every illogical thing they do. It just makes YOU angry and bitter.

Lastly, not being a weak, pushover nice guy. Building confidence, eliminating co-dependency, not seeking approval or being desperate, not becoming clingy, not taking everything so personally, not worrying or caring so much, etc. Also, not giving in so easily, making it all about them, standing up for yourself, not allowing them to control everything, not giving them all the control, etc. These are major issues that need to be addressed.
 
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perseverance

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That's a fantastic post Floyd, I am learning the lessons you have learnt now and your post has been a massive help to me, so thanks very much. I bet with a healthy attitude, a realistic perspective and laid back approach to the 'game' you must be fairing well in it?

"I also realized that becoming angry and bitter over other people's behaviors only ends up hurting yourself"

"Don't dwell on every illogical thing they do. It just makes YOU angry and bitter."

These are the lessons I've learnt recently too and they tie into your last paragraph. Recently I cut a girl out of my life who started off as a co-worker but it obvious that we both liked the look of each other, but I kept a lid on things and things in check because of work and the fact she had a boyfriend. We weren't friends, I never became her friend while she was at work or when she left, never really initiated contact with her, it was all her. well she left the company and then a while later left her boyfriend and we started going out together to various places a few months after that, meeting up etc, I was initiating kino, flirting, setting out my stall so to speak and she was letting it happen, but then on the train home she would rest her head on my shoulders and when I went in for a kiss she would pull away. Basically being an AW, basically she wasn't over her ex. After that day she started being off with me. She'd initiate contact with me making one word answers etc, so instead of following the DJ advice that I learned, I called her out on it (not in an aggressive manner) well it was an AFC thing to do, I don't know why I did it, but I did and I got a load of BS back, so after a few heated exchanges which she started and I finished, I laughed it all off and ignored her. I basically just cut her off and left it at that.

Well fast forward a month later and we're in the same club together, she see sees me and blows my phone up with texts and a few missed calls. I ignore it and carry on dancing and she walks past me and elbows me in the back, I turn around and see her storming off, so I grab her arm and tell her to "p*ss off", well low and behold, she runs over to some dude she is with and he storms over to me and squares up to me, I start laughing, his friends pull away and I get asked to leave the club by a member of staff. I then get a load of threatening text messages from an unknown number throughout the rest of the night and loads of missed phone calls from her and then a threatening text message from her. So I phone her up and unleash down the phone to her, tell her many home truths and she tells me home truths about me too, so I tell her to stay out of my life!

Fast forward two weeks later, she apologies to me via a phone call, I accept her apology and leave it at that. A few laters I see her in a bar I am at, she comes over to me and my friends and starts a conversation with me. She is surprised to see me there and so I say "do you fancy another stand off?", she laughs and walks away, well I headed home at around 1 because I had work at 7, so my friends stay in the bar. She comes over to them and they ask her how we're getting on and she starts spreading sh*t. She calls me obsessive, a freak and how I stalk her. My friends text me in the afternoon to tell me what she was saying about me, so I get angry about this and I phone her, tear her into two about the sh*t she said, she was claiming she was drunk etc - I tell her that she has mental health problems and needs to sort herself out and that she under no circumstances will get back into contact with me.

I deleted and blocked her from facebook, changed my number and I avoid going to the places where I know she'll likely be, but I have only just gotten over the anger and bitterness I had towards her and I have learnt many valuable lessons from this experience, like not taking things seriously which was my fundamental mistake in this situation - I shouldn't have reacted the way I did initially, but I don't take sh*t from anybody and I felt like I was standing up for myself when in actual fact I was probably acting like an AFC. I worried and cared too much about things and I think that was the catalyst of my problems with this girl. I also suppose my one-itis didn't help matters either, but there you go. I am glad I had the experience though because I have learnt many lessons from it. (Apologies for my long winded post).
 

floydb25

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Sounds just like the crazy *****es I dated back in the day. Those bar-hopping, party-going, drama-obsessed, game-playing, ****-teasing attention *****s don't add any value to your life. They just make it more frustrating. They always have underlying issues that cannot be cured. Instead of trying to save crazy women - I try to find out what women can offer that adds value to my life. But, its a mutual thing.

Another lesson I learned was that you can't speak intelligence or logic to a retard. You can't be nice to a jerk. You can't change a ho into a housewife. You can't dig for someone's depth and nice side when it doesn't exist. People are the way they are. Just gotta accept them at face value - instead of focus on their potential, or how YOU want them to be. There's no more to them than what you see. They won't change, or get better. They're not hiding their true selves; what you see in the very beginning is a charade.

It doesn't sound like you did too bad with her. Much more than I used to do. You pretty much have to act that way around the crazies. It's the only way to attract them - by being crazy. They love the drama, fights, uncertainty, etc. They create all of it. Which is why I can't do it. The jerk lifestyle isn't very appealing, so I avoid *****es like a plague.

They are going to get you, because that's what crazy people do. You just can't dwell, obsess, or stereotype. Focusing on quality people helps eliminate the bad ones. Just like focusing on the positives eliminates the negatives. Otherwise you just keep going around in vicious circles.
 
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perseverance

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floydb25 said:
It doesn't sound like you did too bad with her. Much more than I used to do. You pretty much have to act that way around the crazies. It's the only way to attract them - by being crazy. They love the drama, fights, uncertainty, etc. They create all of it. Which is why I can't do it. The jerk lifestyle isn't very appealing, so I avoid *****es like a plague.

Focusing on quality people helps eliminate the bad ones. Just like focusing on the positives eliminates the negatives. Otherwise you just keep going around in vicious circles.
Thanks for the reply, Floyd! You're spot on with what you say! I used to take so much BS from girls in my teenage years that it wasn't until I came to this site and was taught to stand up for myself which lead me to standing up for myself in this situation. Though it did end up with me receiving more BS from this head case.

She was an eye opener to me because at work and when we first started hanging out together she was a completely different person to what I later on encountered and I guess it is my age (22) and my lack of experience with women that led me to be suckered in, but I am thankful I realised her true colours pretty darn quickly. So, I've definitely learnt from this experience with the crazy woman.

Focusing on quality people is an aim of mine too! At some point in my life I want a quality woman, but at the moment I'm taking a break from the game, I'm focusing on my new career prospects, my fitness levels and I am enjoying life at a slower pace and I'm happy.

With regards to quality people, I find people by in large will put on a false personality at first impressions like this girl, so they invite in and then BAM they switch and suddenly they're somebody else, someone unrecognisable from the person you got to know initially. I need to learn how spot the early warning signs, I tend to wait until I know for definite which is a dangerous game to be playing and is probably why I was burnt the last time around.
 

floydb25

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perseverance said:
Thanks for the reply, Floyd! You're spot on with what you say! I used to take so much BS from girls in my teenage years that it wasn't until I came to this site and was taught to stand up for myself which lead me to standing up for myself in this situation. Though it did end up with me receiving more BS from this head case.

She was an eye opener to me because at work and when we first started hanging out together she was a completely different person to what I later on encountered and I guess it is my age (22) and my lack of experience with women that led me to be suckered in, but I am thankful I realised her true colours pretty darn quickly. So, I've definitely learnt from this experience with the crazy woman.

Focusing on quality people is an aim of mine too! At some point in my life I want a quality woman, but at the moment I'm taking a break from the game, I'm focusing on my new career prospects, my fitness levels and I am enjoying life at a slower pace and I'm happy.

With regards to quality people, I find people by in large will put on a false personality at first impressions like this girl, so they invite in and then BAM they switch and suddenly they're somebody else, someone unrecognisable from the person you got to know initially. I need to learn how spot the early warning signs, I tend to wait until I know for definite which is a dangerous game to be playing and is probably why I was burnt the last time around.
Yes... They do not show their true colors in the beginning. But, if you pay attention, you can still see the warning signs. This is why you dont become infatuated, or wear your heart on a sleeve. It just blinds you to reality. You cannot avoid or excuse the red flags, or have your head up in the clouds. They are very real, and potentially dangerous signs.

Some people - especially the crazies - like to pull a bait and switch. They lure you in to get you to spill your heart out, and get you to do all the work - while they pull away, detach themselves, and start acting like jerks. Only, they're not acting. They ARE jerks. When they act distant, selfish, mean, unavailable, critical, etc - that's the real them.

A mistake I used to make was assuming that the person in the beginning was the real them - they just started hiding it out of fear. Or, that it was all just a test, game, or challenge. I didn't take it seriously enough. So, I would try to bring it back - not realizing it never existed. It was just an act. As I was being nicer and more giving - they were being meaner and more selfish. Being that they were jerks - they also blamed me for it. It was my fault; I wasn't good enough; I was the reason they were acting this way. And that's when I got caught right into their abusive trap. This was very real. These people had serious issues. I just assumed they couldnt really be THAT bad.

Of course, a lot of this was from me adding everything up, trying to find the root of the problem, and believing everything they claimed. They said they were hurt, afraid, distrusting, etc, so obviously what happened was, they got too close and backed out of fear... Blah blah. Basically, just excusing everything they did wrong. Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they were good people deep down. Not accepting reality at all.

If ONLY I gave it more time, spilled my heart more, etc, they would come around and reveal their true colors again. Not realizing that these WERE their true colors. Nothing they claimed about themselves added up to who they were. THAT is reality, and why I never found this so-called perfect person hiding inside of them. They were delusional about who they were, and put on an act in the beginning. The fairytale I had was just that...

What I do now is just accept it. It doesn't matter WHY they are this way - only that they ARE this way. They can complain, play the victim, point the finger, and make up as many excuses as they want. It still doesnt change who they are. Nothing will. It's pointless to find out the reasons. The only thing that matters is the facts. "Why did she lose interest? Why is she acting this way? Why did she change? What did I do wrong?" --- doesn't matter. The only thing that does is that she is, or did.

As well, jerks are serious business. You can't take them lightly. They're not harmless, and aren't acting. What they do isn't temporary - its who they are. The bitterness, hatred, manipulation, craziness - that's all them. And, it will get revealed eventually. Once that happens - they are never going back. Because, there's nothing to go back TO.
 

TopGun2000

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never try to change other people unless they want to do so themselves

a bloody lesson i learned long time ago...

if they lie/act at the early stage, 100% red flag, run
 
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