Would like a critique of some game I've ran on semi-interesting HB8

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Will try to make the story short....

Chick, about 32 (I'm 45), newly divorced, hot HB 8, flirty, lots of guys orbiting. Hangs out at a live music club I frequent.

I opened confident and got her name, number, FB friends, etc.

Haven't blown up her phone, haven't orbited, but have here and there let her know I'm interested. Not indirectly, either.

Tried to get her out, but got the "I'm not ready to see a guy yet, just out of a serious breakup" excuse. Half acceptable, given the circumstances, but not kidding myself. Backed off.

Last week end, spent time at the club I run into her at chatting with friends and hitting up other babes. Ignored her.

Walked past, actually not seeing her, and she grabs my shoulder while talking to a friend of hers. Didn't notice at the time, and kept moving toward another HB 8 I was gonna dance with. Didn't respond.

Later, she grabs me and says, "Hey, HalfPUA, you *******, you didn't stop and talk to me." I grin, say little, point to myself to say, "well, yeah, I can be an *******, yeah" with a shoulder shrug.

Next day, send her an email: "Hey, you called me an ******* last night. Worst flirt ever." She responds: "And you came home and sent me an email. #winning". I respond: "Touche, Miss XYZ...# Isthatright?

Okay, she's a struggle to grab frame. Good at it. Used to dudes flocking toward her, though I've not orbited at all too hard. She knows I"m interested but I've been relatively laid back about it.

Today, she sends me, "Did you mean, right as in correct or right as in the thing to do?"

Not wanting to play into her frame, here's what I sent back (about 4 hours later)"

You (definition 95): http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=winning&page=14

Me: http://memecrunch.com/meme/B5IT/hmm-is-that-right

Criticism? Observations? Well played or dumb as ****?

 

[BeDJ]

This is a back and forth tennis match and you have direct the balls flight or else she is playing against the wall, calling all the shots. You know she hit a hard one and you are tempted to hit it, but if you don't, it will go out of bounds. Match point for you.

"Did you mean, right as in correct or right as in the thing to do?"

This is a sh!t test, the context of "right" was displayed and interpreted properly. She was testing the congruence of your laidback-ness.

"Did you mean, right as in correct or right as in the thing to do?"
Yeah. Watching Finding Nemo and feeling about ten years younger.

Although, typically, no response is the best response

 

[Greasy Pig]

Did you mean, right as in correct or right as in the thing to do?"
Yeah. Watching Finding Nemo and feeling about ten years younger.

This. I was going to suggest the same thing. It's called a non sequitur - something completely random and nothing to do with the current conversation.

Not answering all her questions will make her hamster spinnnnnn.

Also, I thought 'worst flirt ever' was a great line. However, she was a wake-up to you and hit a winner straight past you. It's when a woman does something like this that the non sequitur can be your greatest ally, usually preceded by a period of radio silence.

My response to `and you came home and sent me an email...#winning' would've been something like: `Damn, I thought I'd emailed my mother.'
`Yeah, I tend to do some pretty crazy shyt when I'm bored senseless.'
`I just thought I'd write to you so you have time to think of comebacks. I didn't think you were very good at thinking on your feet.'
`I thought it was the least I could do, seeing as you've probably been sitting in front of your computer for the past 18 hours waiting to hear from me.'

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a hard time internalizes the value of silence/not responding in these cases. I'll have to really work hard on that. I don't always respond immediately, but I do get that itch to send something back. Hard not to scratch.

Also, I'll have to remember non sequitur game too.

That said, I'd like to get some feedback on my actual response.

I'm sure it could be better, yes. And, though I did answer her question, I thought it was at least playful and ****y/funny in a way.

I've written about this chick before and how we are always in a frame-struggle. She's very good and usually I hold frame pretty well and even if I don't ever land her, it's actually kind of fun.

And, I'm at the point where it's her turn/job to try to get me out and meet up (I've tried before, got an excuse, basically nexted her in terms of asking for a date straight up, and have continued spinning plates).

Anyway, a little insight on how good/bad what I did send her would be appreciated.

 

[Die Hard]

Although, typically, no response is the best response

^^ This.

Look, the girl rejected you when she told you "I'm not ready to see a guy yet, just out of a serious breakup". It doesn't matter whether that is just a bullsh!t excuse (which it probably is) or if she really is not ready. A rejection is a rejection. And whenever a girl rejects you, you can do 3 things:

1. keep pursuing her. Bad idea, coz you're really just supplicating to her, bloating her ego and coming off as a desperate chump. I mean, how desperate must a man be if he keeps pursuing a woman that rejected him? It shows he doesn't have any other options and he wants only her, SO BADLY that he's even willing to fight a losing battle! He just can't give up, even if she rejected him, he can't live with the idea of not having her. It makes her feel like the ultimate prize. She'll think of you as the ultimate loser and have no respect for you at all.

2. Act butthurt and angry to her. Bad idea. You come off as a loser with no other options. It shows that you're "hurt" by her rejection, which gives her all the power, makes her feel like she's the prize. Which will make her laugh at you and lose any attraction she might have ever had to you in the beginning.

3. Pay her no further attention Winning! It will show that you were able to forget about her quickly after she rejected you. She'll think to herself "Huh?! He doesn't pursue me any further or show any sign of disappointment after I rejected him? I thought I was special???" Your actions show her "No you are not, little girl..." and show her that you are the prize, that you have other options and that you don't need her.
She might very well start to pursue YOU after this. But even if she doesn't, you walk away as a winner, regardless. Coz you didn't act like all the other chumps who kiss her feet and showed her that she is nothing special to you.


Now let's see which of those three applies to your story, HalfPUAHalfAFC.

Last week end, spent time at the club I run into her at chatting with friends and hitting up other babes. Ignored her.

Walked past, actually not seeing her, and she grabs my shoulder while talking to a friend of hers. Didn't notice at the time, and kept moving toward another HB 8 I was gonna dance with. Didn't respond.

PERFECt! This is clearly the third option being applied! You act like a winner, pay her no attention, show her that YOU are the prize and have other options!
And look at her response!!!

Later, she grabs me and says, "Hey, HalfPUA, you asshole, you didn't stop and talk to me."

You played her perfectly, she can't stand the fact that you pay her no attention, she can't stand the fact that you make her feel that she is NOTHING SPECIAL. In fact, it fvcks with her mind SO MUCH that she insults you and calls you an asshole!

Read back what I said about option 2, explaining what a guy shouldn't do... Well, now she is actually doing that!!! She is acting butthurt and angry! She is coming off as a loser with no other options. She is showing that she's "hurt" by your actions, which gives you all the power and make you feel like you are the prize!!
The roles have been reversed, THE FRAME IS TOTALLY YOURS!!


But then..........you mess it all up by sending her that email the next day

Next day, send her an email: "Hey, you called me an asshole last night. Worst flirt ever."

Now you are reverting to option 2! Now you are acting butthurt and angry, coming off as a loser with no other options, showing that she "hurt" you with her insult, handing over the power to her again and making her feel like she's the prize.
AND SHE KNOWS IT VERY WELL:

She responds: "And you came home and sent me an email. #winning".

She is totally right about that and she knows it. You were an asbolute fool to send her that email! You had reversed the roles so perfectly the night before, you were in control of the frame! Then you send her this stupid email and hand the frame back to her.... She didn't even have to do anything for it, you just handed it to her for free, lol.


At this point, you should safe what's left of your honor and just go totally NO CONTACT with this woman. Not as part of some ploy to win the frame back, or something. It's too late for that, it has already come too far for that, these games between you and her have already gone too far! It has all become one big ego game now and the need to walk away as the winner has become the most important thing. It overshadows everything now...

Even if the two of you are attracted to each other, even if she secretly wants to fvck you, she WON'T. She might make out with you and then when you ask her to go home together, she'll reject you. Just to mess with your mind... She'll know that you wanna fvck her, that she has made you horny during making out with her, and that it will frustrate you A LOT when she denies you sex at that point. In her head, she'll say to herself "#Winning", just like she said in her email. That is all she cares about from now on.
And trust me, that will give her a lot more satisfaction than she would get from actually fvcking you! She'll find some other chump to get sex from, it's not that difficult for women to find a horny guy to fill up her pussy, you know... But you, you have just become a way to bloat her ego, the interaction with you has now become all about winning the mind game, nothing else.

So don't let her lure you into that game any further. There's nothing for you to gain here, walk away from it completely.


As for future situations, learn from this and don't make the same mistake again. After you had grabbed the frame so beautifully that night, you should've held onto it! You should not have responded to her calling you an asshole, you should've just laughed at it and continued to pay her no attention. You held all power, the fact that she insulted you, clearly showed that you got into her head! If you had CONTINUED to pay her no attention, there is a good chance that she would have pursued you. Perhaps she would have sent you an email or text later on. Or next time you were in the club, dancing with other girls, she might have joined in and try to beat the other girls, try to make you choose her to dance with over the other girls... Stuff like that.

If it was a game of chess, then you basically had taken her Queen that night. You were at great advantage, you could've pushed onward to the endgame and slowly have wiped her other pieces off the board, to finally land the final blow and give her checkmate... But instead, you just decided to give her the Queen back the next day, by sending that email...and thus, the game ended in a disappointing stalemate.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Diehard... you are most likely right. Damn. Gotta get more of this stuff down.

Still, I've done a lot of what you've said already. I'm pursuing other women and not blowing up her phone. That email was the first one I sent in about 1 1/2 months, so at least I'm not being a needy orbiter.

But, your words cut deep, man. You are right. I had my frame grab back and didn't realize it. My dumb mind said, "Hey, you can use her azzhole comment to your advantage"....ergo, "worst flirt ever" (which wasn't bad on its own, just didn't need to use it here) and in fact I already had the advantage. And then my email blows it up. I think you are right here.

Anyway, I'd like to learn more from this situation. Can you give a similar critique to what I did reply to her with? I'd like to learn more from that.

Also, calling Harry Willmington! These weren't texts, but emails but I think his insight would be valuable here.

HARRY!!!!

 

[Die Hard]

Anyway, I'd like to learn more from this situation. Can you give a similar critique to what I did reply to her with? I'd like to learn more from that.

Actualy, that was the first thing I did in my post, by quoting BeginningDJ:

Although, typically, no response is the best response.

Like I said, she was totally right when she pointed out that she was "winning" because you sent her the email.
The best response to that, would've been no response at all, total silence. Winning the game by NOT PLAYING the game.

Look, you made a mistake by sending the mail, and then she points it out. Now....the more you try to make up for that mistake and try to somehow undo the mistake....the more power you are giving her!
The same dynamic applies to this situation as in the other situations I commented on. Take another look at the three options I described, especially the third one.

Why WOULD you try to make up for the mistake? Why WOULD you try to come up with some witty response after she pointed out your mistake and declared herself the "winner"? It shows her that she holds power over you...
After all, if you really considered yourself the prize, if you really had other options and really didn't need her, then you wouldn't go through all that effort, would you? The simple fact that you put so much effort into the game and pay so much attention to the game, shows her that you consider the OUTCOME of the game very important... In other words, that you consider her as very important.

When you write a witty response to her, you lower your own value. The fact that you went through the effort of devising a witty response, opening up your email account, writing it down and clicking SEND, shows her that you care about her, shows her that she holds power over you! Why else would you go through that effort???
And you probably sent your response the same day, right? Perhaps even within hours? Which makes it even worse.... Coz it shows that of all the things that you do in your day, you gave priority to sending her that email. Instead of being busy with other things, texting other girls, working, studying, hanging out with friends etc. your mind is occupied with HER and sending her that email!
And she knows this...the moment she receives your mail, the moment she reads your witty response, she knows "Aha! I messed with his mind, he is thinking of me! He is going through all this effort FOR ME! He is paying attention to me! I AM SPECIAL!!! WINNING!!!"

You need to do the OPPOSITE! Just as option 3 describes...the same dynamic is at play here: Pay her no attention, don't respond to her mail at all! That way, you show her "No, you are not special, little girl..."

This might feel counterintuitive. You might be worried that it sends off the wrong message to her, namely: "Damn, I got my ass handed to me by you. I am at a loss for words, I don't know how to respond, so I'll just not respond at all"
And yes, at first, she will probably interpret your silence exactly like that! She'll think that your silence is a sign that you are too ashamed to respond, that you don't know what to say, that you admit defeat!
But that's only what she will think INITIALLY. Later on, when you REMAIN silent, she will start to doubt her initial interpretation...and slowly, her mind will start considering the other option: "Maybe he just doesn't care for me and thinks I'm not special at all, maybe THAT is why is remains silent?" And it will start eating at her...
Eventually, she'll send out another "test", perhaps another email, saying something like "Cat got your tongue? "
But again, you give no response. And now that other option will REALLY start to eat at her! "Uh oh... I was wrong! He didn't admit defeat, he just really doesn't care about me! "

That's when the frame passes over into your hands again . Then you follow it up and show that your actions are congruent, by paying her no attention when you run into her at the club again (note that your earlier actions were not congruent: you paid her no attention the night at the club, but the next day you sent her the email. Those actions are opposite to each other and showed her that you were bluffing. You need to always be congruent in your actions). Then she might pursue you again, perhaps try to dance with you etc. etc blah blah blah.

But like I said, THIS GIRL and THIS SITUATION are lost, there is nothing for you to gain with this girl and you should use this information with THE NEXT GIRL!

Anyway, learn to control yourself, to remain patient and secure of the outcome. As I said, it feels counterintuitive to remain silent, and the thought will pop up in your mind that she will consider it as a sign of your defeat. Actually, she probably WILL interpret it like that at first. But you need to remain calm and patient, your silence will have the desired effect eventually, it just takes a little time.