"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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won't put out before marriage

MixMaxster

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Ok this is like a big deal to me,

I might be disrespectful for saying this, but what do others do about girls who say they won't put out before marriage? Do you stick it out with them with the expectation that you don't know where it will go and if it leads to marriage then that's fine, OR is it more like you can't hold out that long and you either hope she changes your mind or find someone else or something.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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MindOverMatter

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If you think she's marriage worthy, stick it out with her, if you don't, do yourself and her a favor and move on.
 

xblitz44x

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Accept it. If she changes her mind and decides she wants to do it, great. But if she doesn't, you have no right to get pissy and impatient because she told you from the beginning and YOU accepted it.

Personally I stay away from those women. They are a waste of time for me. I want to have sex before marriage. I don't feel like compramising what *I* want because of HER beliefs.
 

PoloBlue

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I would keep the relationship but also date other women and have sex with the other women, you should always have a back up plan.

women usually date other guys while they are seeing you, just dont make any commitments.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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Rollo Tomassi

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Rule #4:

Any woman that makes you wait for sex or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

While there is a latent purpose in abstinence before marriage, this purpose ALWAYS serves the female's primary desire - security. That said, many a woman will assume this 'moral highground' as a form of LJBF in an effort to give you a moralistic rejection. It actually becomes a more ironclad form of LJBF.

Whenever I hear this reason floated out by a woman for not becoming intimate with a guy, my first suspicion is she lacks interest and is attempting a rejection that will send a clear message. I've had chicks in my past run this one at me only to hook up with a guy she was hot for and toss all pretense of morality out the window.

Passion necessitates risk; risk to ones reputation, risk to ones personal conditions and risk to personal beliefs. Trust me, if a girl was that passionate about you she'd risk the sin of becoming intimate with you. And that's really an unconscious decision we make as at least semi-moral people, passion is a willingness to risk.
 

DeathDealer

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If you agree to this, you give the woman ULTIMATE power in relationship. You're already an AFC in this relationship, seriously.
 

"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"

Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.

She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.

Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.

So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.

The words come later. The impression comes first.

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MetalFortress

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Originally posted by DeathDealer
If you agree to this, you give the woman ULTIMATE power in relationship. You're already an AFC in this relationship, seriously.
Actually, you're the AFC. You should be keel-hauled for making such a simplistic statement.
 

mistyc

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ohhh no.... I've been in a relationship like that recently. Thankfully it lasted only 6 weeks.

I was even vaguely entertaining the thought of marrying her one day, if she ever came back to my country.

Then she left to her country and my mind cleared.

If she won't **** NOW, if she wont' even let me touch her boobs... HOW THE HELL WILL IT BE AFTER MARRIAGE? Constant excuses not to ****? Lower and lower sex drive? And you KNOW the sex drive just lowers after marriage.. Screw that stuff man, get yourself a REAL woman with fully functional sexual urges.

No means no. That means "no (sex before marriage) means no (relationship before sex)"
 

B9

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to AFC or not to AFC.

that is the perfectly overrated question.
 

Wyldfire

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If this girl is one of the very few in this day and age that wants to save herself for the man she marries, then you need to respect that. If you genuinely like her and think you would want to get married within the next 5 years and you want to marry someone of quality then you'd be stupid to "next" her just because she doesn't want to have sex with anyone other than the man she marries. This is a girl you can and probably should maintain a friendship with. Girls who really want to save themselves in this way are not saying no because they don't like you. They are saying no because of their values and morals. They aren't just leading a guy on.

In this situation, the best way to go is to actually become good, close friends with this girl with the understanding that it's not going to lead to sex or even dating. If you don't try to have a romantic relationship with her but build a good friendship then it leaves you free to date and have sex with others while still standing a chance with her a few years down the road if feelings grow and you find you'd like to get married.

The added bonus to this is that a relationship or marriage that starts off with a genuine, solid friendship is not only far, far better than one that starts off physical, but it also tends to actually last. When this girl marries, it's much less likely that she will get divorced, cheat or place little value in the man she marries. These are all things to consider.

Don't date her or have a romantic relationship with her unless you intend to marry her. Get to know her as a friend and keep it a friendship unless and until you are ready to marry her...period.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

Read more...

Helter Skelter

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
If this girl is one of the very few in this day and age that wants to save herself for the man she marries, then you need to respect that. If you genuinely like her and think you would want to get married within the next 5 years and you want to marry someone of quality then you'd be stupid to "next" her just because she doesn't want to have sex with anyone other than the man she marries. This is a girl you can and probably should maintain a friendship with. Girls who really want to save themselves in this way are not saying no because they don't like you. They are saying no because of their values and morals. They aren't just leading a guy on.

In this situation, the best way to go is to actually become good, close friends with this girl with the understanding that it's not going to lead to sex or even dating. If you don't try to have a romantic relationship with her but build a good friendship then it leaves you free to date and have sex with others while still standing a chance with her a few years down the road if feelings grow and you find you'd like to get married.

The added bonus to this is that a relationship or marriage that starts off with a genuine, solid friendship is not only far, far better than one that starts off physical, but it also tends to actually last. When this girl marries, it's much less likely that she will get divorced, cheat or place little value in the man she marries. These are all things to consider.

Don't date her or have a romantic relationship with her unless you intend to marry her. Get to know her as a friend and keep it a friendship unless and until you are ready to marry her...period.
This is good advice.
Couldn't say it any better.
 

So Many Ways

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I've been in this situation before. I met a woman who after the second date, decided to become a born again virgin. We hadn't had sex yet but she was far from a virgin. Needless to say I walked away. I will settle for nothing less than a sexually fulfilling relationship. If that's what you want, then your decision should be an easy one. Since not having sex in a relationship bothers you, you will be settling. Is that what you want?

You can't force a woman who wants to wait to engage in a sexual relationship. On the flip side, you can't force someone who desires a sexual relationship to have a celibate relationship. You end up in a situation where one person's needs are not being met.

The solution to these scenarios really is simple.
 
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