Women judge men on income/status as harshly as we judge women on looks

static

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"Men are evaluated by their income and professional status as harshly as women are evaluated by their looks"

--Nancy Etcoff, Ph.D., Professor of psychology at Harvard Medical School., in her book "Survival of the Prettiest: The Science of Beauty."


I just read this in the book "What Women Want" by Laurence Roy Stains and Stefan Bechtel on pg. 294,

That quote is a punch and so obviously supports the title of her book. This causes me to more harshly judge its validity.

What is your opinion on this?

I disagree because I thought about Doctors and dentists, and for the most part, their women were the same in looks (based on what I've seen...Howver, I use to think that most female pre-meds are ugly, but after cold approaches I've found the opposite to be true...and they are very snotty too). They have an advantage , I think, if they at least look decent and hold themselves a certain way. On the other hand, ugly celebrities do get pretty women, so maybe it depends on how rich and/or also how popular you are. Perhaps popularity is even more important provided everything else is at least minumum.

Yeah, this post is AFC. We shouldn't look for excuses to hold us back, but I just couldn't get it out of my mind, as I'm still trying to decide what career to pursue.
 

Chewy Bagel

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Errm, EGID?

What about joe-blow-the-pool-boy who gets pleanty of hot poon?

Blah, don't trip too hard on someone else's hypothesis / opinion / deduction.
 

Cheiradawg

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Note that a woman wrote that.

Even the ones with Ph.D.'s from Harvard don't know what they are talking about.
 

Juan_Man

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The real title of this thread should be "Women judge men on income, status, and looks as harshly as we judge women on looks".
 

rgeere

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Originally posted by static
"Howver, I use to think that most female pre-meds are ugly, but after cold approaches I've found the opposite to be true...and they are very snotty too.
I don't know, I guess my school might be out of the average, but I can't think of a single pre-med girl here that isn't hot. Of course, I've only spent a signifigant amount of time with three of them. I may not have noticed the rest of them. Ohh never mind, there is one that isn't so hot....
 

static

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Can someone explain why pre-med (and even a high percent of med school) girls tend to be hot? I sense the reason behind this would clear up some things women find attractive in men.

Before I went to a university I thought pre-med girls would be ugly. One reason was based on the stereotype that people who pursue higher education look "nerdy." But I also assumed that girls who lacked in the looks department would work harder in school since they knew they would have a harder time finding a provider. But having this on their mind could actually be worse. It make them depressed and have a give up mentality and do worse in school.
 

rgeere

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Well, the ones I know are incredibly outgoing and smart, maybe perhaps the reason that they are going looking nurtured a good self-esteeme image when they were younger making them feel better in themselves enough to realize they have potential?

I don't know, just a theory perhaps...
 

Kineti[C]harm

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This does not even count or really have anything to say in early twenties sarging for sex etc.
 

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hehe.

This is an EASY one.

Don't you see?

Its evolution. Evolution is perfection, and when it comes to good looks, the better looking you are the better your genes are....hence the better your brain is.

There is a series on tv where this is explained in detail in one particular espisode of "The human body".

Its brilliant. And the guy who studied the human body for years and years and made this series (with others i suppose) is a professor and is a genius.

Ok, so go get the series or see the episode or read up about it.

Something on this site of interest thats pretty closely related is "the theory of all things" by some dude who is pretty smart, you can find it on these message boards. Its lengthy and its an overview -his ideas which are hard to argue - on why us men like to fvck hot females.

Same deal with your pre-med girls.

It all goes something like this. People who are smart are often more attractive than people who are pretty stupid, because their genes are better. Ofcourse, with the diversity of genes and the gene-pool, you have many variations on how good someone looks and how smart they are.

But the great thing we know about this is that the scale leans in favour of good looks and good brains.

The better your genes, the more symetrical your face, the less things you have wrong with your body. Put make-up on a girl to remove all her little imperfections and she is gorgeous until you remove that make-up.

Also, people with better genes tend to gravitate towards other people with the same level or better of 'perfection'.

Its all about natural selection, man. You wouldn't settle for an ugly squab if you could get a hot lookin lady....because you are wired to find the best possible mate.

Simplifying it a little. If you were in a herd of cattle, and you were the dominant bull....basically you are going to go out and seek the best cows to mate with. These ones happen to be the most beautiful (attractive to you) as well. Its because thats how nature protects the advancement of the gene pool. You come hard-wired to find the "best" cows attractive. The best cows are the most healthy ones, the ones who can carry on the species better than the others...the ones who's calv'es will survive and be more healthy and stronger than their parents.....these cows also happen to be drop dead gorgeous. Cos just as nature is perfecting the genes for their immune systems and other internal bodily things, it is at the same perfecting the genes that make up the way those hot moo-moo's look. Its an all-in-one thing. And you come hard wired to find the best cow all round to be the most attractive, and its the one that will get your attention first.

It comes as no surprise that by the time you work your way down the list and the days of the mating season go by, you may never get to the ugly, lesser cows. Thank god for natural selection, hey.

So yes. Those hot pre-meds. They ARE better than normal girls in terms of genes and health and looks, the whole she-bang. ALSO, you will notice those types of girls will have better shaped/sized hips for child baring. Nature protects the mating process.

And so, in conclusion, tho i didn't go into it, what actually makes a chick attractive? Well, its all the above. YOU see that she is a better girl to mate with. Her hips, those legs, her face, her intellect, her health....alll of those are genes related things...and you know that they are a heck of a lot better than a lot of other girls, so you are going to at least try to get their attention, unless today's society has beat you out of that, or someone stronger and tougher than you comes along.

Through the process of evolution, those hotties are hot because of a combination of ALL their better genes, which translates into what you see on the surface and what they blab about when they talk to you. Mix it all in with human nature, society's pressures, modern day living, and all the rest, and you have a girl. Some are made better from birth because of natural selection and some are made worse. But you will find the ones with better genes are the ones you are more attracted too.....natural selection assenuates (enhances to your eye/perception) certain things that trigger the primitive part of your brain so you recognise when a girl who is better comes along.

Trust me. Cindy crawford and elle mcpherson (and given the handicap of the diversity in life and variation and your preference) and all the rest are better for it than the average girl on the street.

Its all in the genes.

But does it make those hotter girls beter people? No. The world is too complex.

There is such diversity and variation, you probably would not have realised. But that is the main gist of the world. Go look it up. Helps A LOT to know the system
 

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Oh yeh, in conclusion, haha. it takes work to put something easy to understand together. I just wrote that off the top of my head.

So, you are obviously going to find lots of attractive girls at uni. And going by genes, the roots of everything, its obvious that the smarter girls are going to be more atractive, because they are naturally better in all ways on a foundation level.
Thats why a lot of uni chicks are hot.

But like i said, given the diversity of the world, the cuts and breaks, the trajedies and interceptions in life....its not uncommon to find an attractive girl working in a more humble job. Put it down to anything....its very obscure, but at least we know the source of it all, and the possibilites from there are endless....but intelligence gravitates heavily toward being beautiful. Cos thats the way its always been, from day dot.

** as a side note....it just so happens that what we find attractive (high cheek bones, symetry, full lips, long legs, curvy hips, whatever, is so by no firm rule....its a multi trillion possibility or more that what we find attractive is what it is....but its been developing for millions of years along a path, through selection of good traits for healthy offspring, and therefore exclusion of bad traits that dont gear toward that goal.

It just so happens that the physical qualities of a women's face that we find attractive have been passed down from the better individuals (re production-wise) througout time. In so that the greater a women looks seem to us, the better the gene pool she came from. So way back, high cheek bones must have been a feature of some hot reproductive cave-chick who could wip them out easily, just by chance, and she had those fine cheek bones/face structure. It got passed down, and because she was better for mating, her features were passed down. That didn't change. This was obvious to the males over a long period of time, so they sought them out, now its in grained...Now build up a million simple things like that, and you get the idea.

So really, its luck that we have what we have to find attractive today....i am happy with it, are you? I guess i was born like this....who knows, it could have been something different, and we would be none the wiser.

Evolution = no direction. Just what works. The weaker and rigid die. The sronger and more adaptive live. Over and over and over.
 

italostud

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Yeah I totally hear what you're saying man. I mean, sometimes when I'm driving past a farm late at night I'll pull over and go **** the hottest cow I can find. Cow sex is amazing.

J/K, great post, took all the words out of my mouth that I was just too lazy to type out. :)
 

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But the next part of your answer lies in modern day.

Modern society sucks in a way

It has escewed much of what nature has programmed into us, made us confused.

That is what that theory of all things devles into a bit as well.

So why would anyone visit a site like this? Is it because you are pathetic?

No you just need some answers to what modern day living has confused you about.

My story. Before i came here i had perhaps 70% of the answers to women in a broad range of categories. However, the other 30% lay in some pretty major - and minor - areas that governed my sucess.

I am a man. But god forbid that i can be one to my full potential in this society. If there is not a problem with me, it will be a problem with the girl. Read the dj bible, its pretty acurate, within it are a lot of things....but they are just topping....what those things do on an internal level to a women is what you should be doing naturally to a women, just by being born. The multiplier or probability factor should only come into it depending on how strong an individual you are, your character, strength and genes.

Modern society has made it hard. Blame that french guy who wrote that book that started the french revolution, and the very same book that changed western civilization forever since we based our modern standard of living on the beginings of capitalization...which has only served to dilute us men even further be indirect means. I mean, advertising, etc. Making us want what we normally wouldn't want, putting pressures on people, the whole shebang.

Anyway....point is, you are here because you either havnt got a clue, are just interested, or would like to know more of how to do what you were meant to do under the laws of the universe.

So what attracts a women? A real man does. Whats a real man? Don't ask me. No one ever told me, not my father not my older brothers, not my friends. It was meant to be shown to me through example....except their manliness has been diluted through one way or another - by society or themselves over the course of their lives. In the last few generations things have only gotten worse with feminists and the whole lot. I can rant on here because this is the place for it...out in the real world i just deal with it.

But the funny thing is, since i was never told or shown, and now i know just a little bit more, it doesnt matter how i know it, it just matters that i do.

And in my head its more of a state of being than anything.

Now i will answer your question, but the background is good for it....Those doctors....are they REAL men? Average looking women with them....

am i the manliest man i can be? what is a real man.

There is no exact answer but the best general thing is this. A real man is a born barbarian in modern day clothing who is civilised and cultured (which includes intelligence)

Too often we leave out the barbarian part. Hot sex is best suited to the barbarian in us all, and funnily enough, sex is what drives the world. Yet even modern day living has confused that part in us.

When i was younger, a few years ago, i thought preferencial sex was when i was being nice and easy to the girl....hahahahahahahahaha...yeh, over time i worked out it wasn't.

Thing with evolution is that a doctor may be on a higher level of education than the rest of us, but does it mean he is genetically great apart from his ability to retain information and his ability to have practiced the culmination of medical arts built up and passed down over thousands of years by OTHER men to himself?

Never forget that spin on the world. It exists.

Point is, women are not attracted to the culmination of men's efforts in culture from then to the modern day....thats all relitively new, they are attracted to what was already in place millions of years ago....and the closest thing i can refer to by is barbaric or primitive behavior. It just so happens that we have a primitive part of our brain left over from those times that hasn't changed much at all in its contents.

It all comes back to the hunter. Its in the dj bible too. great read that, in the boot camp, good read.

You go grab a big muscled, intelligent, man, who does what he wants, who can hold a conversation, who will not be swayed on what he wants to do in the moment by anyone, who is courageous and brave and confident, who doesnt treat people bad, and is fit, and any women will want to fvck him.

Therfore, he can marry any women he wants.

Those base qualities can be simultated by other means, giving much like the same results.

Maybe the doctors you saw were not trying hard enough, or maybe their idea of attraction is different to yours for whatever reasons.

Dont forget that genes are one thing, but environment also has at least a 30-40% sway on how a human grows.

Women are just looking for what they were always looking for - the strongest and toughest bad ass male available. Back in the hunter gatherer days, that lasted for millions of years compared to our modern 200 or 7000 depending on how you look at it, thats what it is. And it all is linked with sex in the centre of it all.

No wonder we are confused. They are even using sex to sell stuff that isnt about sex. what type of message does that send.

There was an interesting story about stone henge and how it was possibly a monument to transport the world back to the days of the hunter-gather....because everything back then was in balance...rather than in an emerging-from neolithic time where people were forced to go onto the farms.

Long story, too long, and its a documentary and the new way of living on famrs and having crops and herds was not as chemically-producing of such things like adrenaline and thrill that hunting did for humans, thus men were unhappy. Mainly due to the role change from hunter to farmer. and over time, women grew less happy because their roles were changed and the men were not pleasing them as much, and vice-versa, so stone henge was the answer, a monument to capture the sun....cos they were religeous as you can imagine and it all had to do with the gods...and all this crap, main point is above.

What makes you happy most? hunting. there is no better thrill than a hunt. Or in modern day terms to a lesser degree a competitive sport.

Be the cultured barbarian.

And just because someone is a doctor doesnt mean they are genetically brilliant. Good on the memory genes and lets thank dad or someone for leading them into that feild.

Its all diverse. The heart of the matter remains the same. If your the best man around and luck favours you in single women, you get the pick.

Obviously those doctors are lacking somewhere, in luck, or in themselves.

But thats life, and whats written by me here is pretty rigid and general and unpolished.

But dems the facts
 

true|hockey

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It all goes something like this. People who are smart are often more attractive than people who are pretty stupid, because their genes are better.

So someone who is innatly intelligent to the point where they are insane equates to "better" genes? What about a very intelligence person who is more prone to desiese, sickness, or injuries? This arguement is very weak.


Women are just looking for what they were always looking for - the strongest and toughest bad ass male available.


/yawn, recycled garbage.


So yes. Those hot pre-meds. They ARE better than normal girls in terms of genes and health and looks, the whole she-bang. ALSO, you will notice those types of girls will have better shaped/sized hips for child baring. Nature protects the mating process.

and

So, you are obviously going to find lots of attractive girls at uni. And going by genes, the roots of everything, its obvious that the smarter girls are going to be more atractive, because they are naturally better in all ways on a foundation level.

you later say

Thing with evolution is that a doctor may be on a higher level of education than the rest of us, but does it mean he is genetically great

you contridict yourself here, first boasting about intelligent women being the pick of the crop only later to saying that being a doctor does not equate one into being "genetically great"

The simple fact is, genes effect alot: ones intellect, athletic potential, health, physical attributes, and even longevity. The non trivial aspect of human development is encompased by how they are raised, what type of enviroment they were braught up in, and the like. One can argue that the later can affect one more than the former ( assuming this person is not brain dead, or terminally ill). The short story is that being "genetically gifted" has little to do with ones upbringing, that ultimatly makes you who you are.
 

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Originally posted by true|hockey
It all goes something like this. People who are smart are often more attractive than people who are pretty stupid, because their genes are better.

So someone who is innatly intelligent to the point where they are insane equates to "better" genes? What about a very intelligence person who is more prone to desiese, sickness, or injuries? This arguement is very weak.
Actually, a 22 y old woman was found in a room where she lived trapped by captors for her whole life. She was there since she was a baby. SHe knew nothing, coudnt speak....

The investigators said she didnt even look like a human at all. The more you learn and the more intelligent you look, the less animal you look.

Could someone find the article because I lost it?
 
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I think it varies between women, but in general, most women don't judge a man's income/status harshly. Look at all the beautiful, sucessful women dating loser. And when I worked at a major mall a few years ago, I saw countless not so good looking women dating rich-lookin (and decent lookin) men too. It all comes down to individuals....but I think the for the most part, it's the man's overall package that matters. If he lacks in one aspect, he can make up for it in another. I think that Phd-holding lady is totally wrong: unless she's talking about the gold-diggers that hang out at the "gold-digger holes" where rich men are to be found (usually in yuppie downtown centers). But "out in the real world", for the most part, if you've got the DJ skills and aren't living in a cardboard box on 4th street, you've got a chance with many, many, good lookin women. Bottom line.

ps
looks DO NOT relate to levels of intelligence. We have one of the better known med schools at my University, and it is mixed. I also happen to attend one of the most competitive schools around, and I can also say that you're medical school must be the exception. I find that many good lookin women are used to having alot of things handed to them (especially in the USA) and don't feel they even need to go into a tough profession. Again, it all comes down to the individual. But you the good looks/intelligence equation is ludicrious. I've been around too long to believe it.
 

drmeathead

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Originally posted by static
Can someone explain why pre-med (and even a high percent of med school) girls tend to be hot? I sense the reason behind this would clear up some things women find attractive in men.

Before I went to a university I thought pre-med girls would be ugly. One reason was based on the stereotype that people who pursue higher education look "nerdy." But I also assumed that girls who lacked in the looks department would work harder in school since they knew they would have a harder time finding a provider. But having this on their mind could actually be worse. It make them depressed and have a give up mentality and do worse in school.

the poplulation of hot girls vs ugly girls is the same in med and dental school just like everywhere else. a few 9s, some 8s a whole lot of 4-7s and a a few 3s. You may just find them more attractive b/c they have more to offer than looks. Personally I dont **** where I eat so I dont date girls in my class. Besides some are a little snotty. They are hot and gonna be rich and the KNOW it. Whatever, go make me a sandwhich.
 
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